Clarification on Tagging Guidelines: Whiteout Censorship vs. Erotica/Mature

[Litreara]

I'm posting to ask for an official clarification on how the Tagging Guidelines apply to whiteout censorship.

My question is: if this becomes the norm and Erotica manga start drawing genitals and then covering them up with whiteouts, would these works be retagged as Mature under the current guidelines?

I'm asking so I know what to expect going forward and whether I should continue reporting this type of content.

---

For context, here's what I've observed:

So, lately I've noticed that some manga tagged as Erotica here have started handling the censorship of sexual content differently. Instead of simply not drawing the genitals, they're now drawing them and covering them up with whiteouts.

I'm bringing this up because, unless there has been some change I'm not aware of, according to the MangaDex Title Tagging Guidelines, any manga with a depiction of genitals in a sexual context, even if censored with whiteouts, black bars, or mosaics, should be tagged as Mature.

I've been seeing it in a bunch of manga published by Young Magazine, but I've come across it elsewhere too. Here are some manga that have started doing this, along with a few panels that show what I mean:

Bouryoku Banzai

I think this was the first one where I saw whiteouts being used. It happened in the extra chapter from Volume 4. When the chapter was uploaded, I reported that the title should be tagged as Mature, and the report was accepted.

However, that chapter was later removed so that the manga could remain tagged as Erotica.

The chapter was later uploaded as a separate entry, which is currently tagged as Erotica.

Panels from Chapter 34.5.

Spoiler: NSFW

Ueno-kun wa Kaihatsuzumi

The panels below are from Chapter 85, which has not yet been translated, but there are whiteouts in Chapter 80.

Spoiler: NSFW

Daredemo Dakeru Kimi ga Suki

Panels from Chapter 96.

Spoiler: NSFW

Soredemo Ashita mo Kareshi ga Ii

Panels from Chapter 44, not yet translated.

Spoiler: NSFW

Thank you for your time.

 

[Aboideau]

Would replacing the whiteout with a banana be any different, I wonder?

On a somewhat tangential note, I always used to think that bodily liquids from those parts would automatically translate to a mature rating too (I just thought it was common sense). I think I remember in the past authors being very vocal about telling the readers that it's whipped cream or ice-cream or spilled milk (though this might've been for suggestive works only). But now I regularly see women getting wet in a very visual and literal sense and both the male and female ejaculate being very close if not the same to the ones you see in mature rated works. Can't think of any titles that do this at the moment so I can't really prove my point here on the spot.

1.2.2 The content rating for a series is based on the highest level of sexual content in the series. In general, entries that focus on sex or contain uncensored sex scenes should be marked as mature, entries with heavily censored or non-explicit sex as erotica, and entries with light exposure as suggestive.
1.2.2.1 A series may receive a higher content rating based on several factors, such as an entry that is fully censored but completely focused on the depiction of sex. Contact MangaDex staff if you aren't sure.
https://mangadex.org/guidelines

Going by my interpretation of these rules, I believe the whiteout shouldn't make the sex scenes count as heavily censored. Oral penetration is being shown very clearly in some of your examples which might be counted as rather explicit. The only other thing keeping them as erotica is probably that they (probably) focus more on the story around the sex with sex being only 10-20% of it. But the question is, what exactly is counted as heavily censored and/or explicit/non-explicit sex?

A dictionary definition of pornography (the content that is usually with the mature rating on this site):

• the depiction of erotic behavior (as in pictures, or writing) intended to cause sexual excitement
• material (as books, or a photograph) that depicts erotic behavior and is intended to cause sexual excitement
• the depiction of acts in a sensational manner so as to arouse a quick intense emotional reaction

By this definition you could argue that even suggestive content causes sexual excitement hence why it should be counted as being pornographic.

Personally, I see it more like soft-core pornography mixed with erotica which is neither here nor there. And I wouldn't want to see them be tagged as mature because that's where the actual hardcore pornography lives at. Unless MangaDex makes an adult rating (hardcore) alongside mature (soft-core?) and erotica, I personally don't want these works being tagged as mature.

Edit:

On second thought, grabbing the whiteout with hands, feet, thighs, etc., or shoving part of it into another's body, mouth, etc., or sandwiching the whiteout between thighs, breasts, etc. - if it is very visually/explicitly shown like in your examples, I actually think that it should constitute for a mature rating after all.

 

[Dverin_Oshiban_Duren]

I believe the whiteout shouldn't make the sex scenes count as heavily censored.

Yeah that's what I thought after reading the rules.

It's good to keep things simple but that is hard (pun?) when the thing is complicated.

 

[Litreara]

Would replacing the whiteout with a banana be any different, I wonder?

On a somewhat tangential note, I always used to think that bodily liquids from those parts would automatically translate to a mature rating too (I just thought it was common sense). I think I remember in the past authors being very vocal about telling the readers that it's whipped cream or ice-cream or spilled milk (though this might've been for suggestive works only). But now I regularly see women getting wet in a very visual and literal sense and both the male and female ejaculate being very close if not the same to the ones you see in mature rated works. Can't think of any titles that do this at the moment so I can't really prove my point here on the spot.



Going by my interpretation of these rules, I believe the whiteout shouldn't make the sex scenes count as heavily censored. Oral penetration is being shown very clearly in some of your examples which might be counted as rather explicit. The only other thing keeping them as erotica is probably that they (probably) focus more on the story around the sex with sex being only 10-20% of it. But the question is, what exactly is counted as heavily censored and/or explicit/non-explicit sex?

A dictionary definition of pornography (the content that is usually with the mature rating on this site):

By this definition you could argue that even suggestive content causes sexual excitement hence why it should be counted as being pornographic.

Personally, I see it more like soft-core pornography mixed with erotica which is neither here nor there. And I wouldn't want to see them be tagged as mature because that's where the actual hardcore pornography lives at. Unless MangaDex makes an adult rating (hardcore) alongside mature (soft-core?) and erotica, I personally don't want these works being tagged as mature.

Edit:

On second thought, grabbing the whiteout with hands, feet, thighs, etc., or shoving part of it into another's body, mouth, etc., or sandwiching the whiteout between thighs, breasts, etc. - if it is very visually/explicitly shown like in your examples, I actually think that it should constitute for a mature rating after all.

Just so you know, when I mentioned the MangaDex Title Tagging Guidelines, I was referring to this:

It's available here.

 

[Tscheddov]

Tsugumomo was labeled Mature now too. which i think is wrong.
i am not sure about daredemo but you should keep in mind that "mature" replaced what used to be "pornographic" .
the last paragraphs of that existing definition should be rephrased.
Tsugumomo is erotica, not mature.

Daredemo is borderline, but i still would count it in erotica.
(daredemo used to be erotica til yesterday btw)
if that is now enforced this way there will be a lot of titles that wil be re-labelled as mature soon . . .

 

[Litreara]

i am not sure about daredemo but you should keep in mind that "mature" replaced what used to be "pornographic" .

Yes, I'm aware of that. I remember when the tag was renamed.

the last paragraphs of that existing definition should be rephrased.

I respectfully disagree. For example, are JAVs not considered porn simply because the genitals are censored?

But I'm not here to debate policy with other users. I just want an official staff answer so I know how to handle these reports going forward.

if that is now enforced this way there will be a lot of titles that wil be re-labelled as mature soon . . .

That's why I'm asking for an official clarification on the matter. As I mentioned, a number of manga currently tagged as Erotica have recently started covering the genitals with whiteouts in sexual scenes instead of using their previous approach of simply not drawing them.

Edit: Just to be clear, I agree with the current guidelines as written. I'm not asking for them to be changed. I'm only asking whether they will be enforced consistently for Erotica manga that have recently changed their approach to censorship.

 

[Tscheddov]

I respectfully disagree. For example, are JAVs not considered porn simply because the genitals are censored?

i think a difference has to be made between pixeled /blurred or bar censorship and large scale white-outs.

there is a difference between censored porn and what we see in daredemo and tsugumomo.
tsugumomo has whole arcs with tournaments and fighting, its not focused on sexually arousing the audience.


maybe take look at what the official places do ? CD Japan does not sell porn/ hentai. the titles tsugumomo and daredemo can be purchased there because they are not porn or mature in the sense it is starting to be enforced here.


i don't want to debate this with other users too, because users hold no power here.
but unfortunately the issue or at least i am being ignored by mods.

the definition should be rewritten

 

[Tscheddov]

I'm asking so I know what to expect going forward and whether I should continue reporting this type of content.

I just realized this.
Are you actively scanning through "erotica" titles with the intend to report them and have them changed to "mature" if you dont like the way the spicy bits are drawn ?
because that sounds like it.

 

[Litreara]

I just realized this.
Are you actively scanning through "erotica" titles with the intend to report them and have them changed to "mature" if you dont like the way the spicy bits are drawn ?
because that sounds like it.

No, I just notice it when I come across it. I'm not actively scanning for anything.

Either way, I'm not here to discuss my personal habits. I just want an official staff answer on the tagging guidelines.

 

[Tscheddov]

No, I just notice it when I come across it. I'm not actively scanning for anything.

Either way, I'm not here to discuss my personal habits. I just want an official staff answer on the tagging guidelines.

thats the Point. YOUR PERSONAL HABITS. dont push your views and opinions on others.
these titles have been running for years and now you feel entitled to report them as porn because of your personal musings and feefees .
Again, those are not porn. the Mangaka themselfes dont consider these porn nor do the publishers . Or do you think you know better than the Mangaka and Publishers of these titles ?

I dont understand why you felt the need to report these instead of just leaving it as it was and enjoying the read.

 

[Litreara]

thats the Point. YOUR PERSONAL HABITS. dont push your views and opinions on others.
these titles have been running for years and now you feel entitled to report them as porn because of your personal musings and feefees .
Again, those are not porn. the Mangaka themselfes dont consider these porn nor do the publishers . Or do you think you know better than the Mangaka and Publishers of these titles ?

I've already stated my position. Also, it wasn't me who wrote the guidelines. I'm just asking if now that manga here tagged as Erotica are changing how they handle censorship are to be retagged under the current guidelines.

If you disagree with the guidelines, the Mainsite Suggestions section would be the place to propose a change. I'm just here for a staff clarification.

I'm waiting for a staff response. Thanks.

 

[Tscheddov]

I'm just asking if now that manga here tagged as Erotica are changing how they handle censorship are to be retagged under the current guidelines.

that does not answer the question why you feel the need to meddle with this in the first place.
why do you think it is necessary to change these to mature ? why dont you just read them and carry on ?
are these getting now too spicy for you to handle without feeling repelled and therefore want to be able to filter them out along with all the bad porn ?

maybe ping a staff to get their attention

 

[Manko-sensei]

@Litreara this kind of issue is as old as edit wars, group leaders and some power uploaders are specialists in changing it back and forth for the sake of visibility. Even with better guidelines the issue will persist, so reassure yourself by thinking "this is a lost war".

 

[Litreara]

@Litreara this kind of issue is as old as edit wars, group leaders and some power uploaders are specialists in changing it back and forth for the sake of visibility. Even with better guidelines the issue will persist, so reassure yourself by thinking "this is a lost war".

Yeah. I just wanted an official clarification since some Erotica manga that never used whiteout censorship are now using it, and according to the guidelines, they should be retagged. So I basically just wanted to know whether I should report them when I see them.

Also, yeah, I know some people have the privileges to change the tag back if it's retagged, but staff can always lock the edits and revoke those privileges. Since no staff member replied, though, I guess I won't be reporting them when I see them.

And just before someone comes accusing me, the only manga I ever reported was Bouryoku Banzai, and that was a while ago. If any manga got retagged as Mature, it wasn't me who reported it.

 

[Cool.Ice]

I know an extreme situation

The manga My Dearest Self With Malice Aforethought has 96 chapters, and among them, only ONE page has whiteout genitals.

Spoiler: NSFW

Now, should the whole manga be tagged as Mature?
For me, even tagging this as erotica is wrong.

I think there should be per-chapter or per-page warning or page-blur option (like Tsukihime).

 

[Litreara]

I know an extreme situation

The manga My Dearest Self With Malice Aforethought has 96 chapters, and among them, only ONE page has whiteout genitals.

Spoiler: NSFW

Now, should the whole manga be tagged as Mature?
For me, even tagging this as erotica is wrong.

I think there should be per-chapter or per-page warning or page-blur option (like Tsukihime).

I see what you mean.

But that's a discussion about how the guidelines should work, which belongs in the Mainsite Suggestions section.

This is a Support thread. I'm just asking whether the current guidelines are going to be enforced consistently for Erotica manga that are changing their approach to censorship.

I appreciate your input, though. If you feel strongly about per-chapter warnings or page-blur options, the Suggestions section would be the right place to bring that up.

 

[gimme_yuri_plz]

Before reading the content rating guidelines, My impression was that fully censored genitalia was considered erotica, while partially censored or uncensored genitalia was considered mature or pornographic. That's what you see happening in practice.

However, the guidelines clearly state something different. If we start strictly following the guidelines, many erotica titles will need to be changed to "mature".

 

[shinya78]

Adding Kuse Tsuyo Kanojo to the list of titles that got changed from Erotica to Mature, which I think is COMPLETELY WRONG. That's another manga that I'm reading that suddenly got changed.

Mind you, the most action a genital got from someone who is not the owner of said genital in this manga is rubbing, WITH CLOTHES ON. There's nipple stimulation, sure, but there's no actual sex happening at all, censored or otherwise.

1.2.2 The content rating for a series is based on the highest level of sexual content in the series. In general, entries that focus on sex or contain uncensored sex scenes should be marked as mature, entries with heavily censored or non-explicit sex as erotica, and entries with light exposure as suggestive.

However, the guidelines clearly state something different. If we start strictly following the guidelines, many erotica titles will need to be changed to "mature".

At this point, what's the purpose of the Erotica tag when someone can just change things to Mature at a whim?

Shouldn't it be enough to just match what the ACTUAL publishing company rates the manga as? Because at the current state, there are titles are that getting mixed up together with actual porn.

And should we start tagging mods to get eyes on this thread?

 

[Tscheddov]

At this point, what's the purpose of the Erotica tag when someone can just change things to Mature at a whim?

Shouldn't it be enough to just match what the ACTUAL publishing company rates the manga as? Because at the current state, there are titles are that getting mixed up together with actual porn.

Exactly. that should be the scale. daredemo, tsugumomo, reincarnated carrier (which got an official english release by ghostship) and many more, that are not porn , are treated as such here recently.

And should we start tagging mods to get eyes on this thread?

probably. but i doubt this will help. the 2nd part of the guideline would need a rewrite.
this was originally the definition for "pornographic" . because "porn = bad" they decided to rename it to mature without adjusting the definition accordingly.

Adding Kuse Tsuyo Kanojo to the list of titles that got changed from Erotica to Mature, which I think is COMPLETELY WRONG.

someone is running through titles and either changes them themself (i think group leaders can do that) or report them and have them changed by mods.
seems like an orchestrated action against erotica

 

[shinya78]

Exactly. that should be the scale. daredemo, tsugumomo, reincarnated carrier (which got an official english release by ghostship) and many more, that are not porn , are treated as such here recently.

the 2nd part of the guideline would need a rewrite.
this was originally the definition for "pornographic" . because "porn = bad" they decided to rename it to mature without adjusting the definition accordingly.

I suppose there's a need for a new rating, which would be the equivalent of SEINEN.
Which is basically: "Mature, but not quite actual porn".

someone is running through titles and either changes them themself (i think group leaders can do that) or report them and have them changed by mods.
seems like an orchestrated action against erotica

Sometimes all it takes is ONE instance of something being too much for someone to get the tags to change, and sometimes no one even bothers changing the tags. It is what it is.