Kusunoki-san wa Koukou Debut ni Shippai Shite Iru - Ch. 56 - Her absence has left me feeling strangely off

[Ragnolock]

She's probably the more well written of the cast though tbh. She's a simplistic archetype too but done well and she's obviously got a gap. She's obviously a shitty person but also a scared teenager in over her head, the fact she has that whole thing about not believing in good natured people as a character motivation that has been defining her actions is a core part of good writing she has over the other heroines.
Another thing is how active she is like last chapter when she went out to get comfort from the MC I thought about that and if the other girls similarly in that situation would not find comfort in him and he would have to notice it. I think the fact snakey is far more of an active character than a reactive character is part of the reason she's the more popular character.
Even in this chapter she was the one to point out Kusunoki clearly liked the MC too instead of Kusunoki telling Moe or even having Moe put the obvious together.

See i like your responses. You can acknowledge a characters flaws, and formulate an opinion based in reality.

Yes she is good at moving things forward and that is something that I like, but I consider that to be a contribution to the story not her as a character. I think that most characters in this series are well written for their archetypes personally. They all have a little bit of depth, and nuance to them. Hebikawa just stands out because her archetype is not as common as the other two, and it is open to more unique developments. She is essentially just being used as a plot device here tho. Not saying that in a bad way, but in most cases where she is present even her die hard fans say she is "moving the plot forward" that is at its very essence a plot device.

She is a very active character, but that is her role here. The other two can't necessarily be active because they are the types to maintain status quo at all cost. Them suddenly changing that drastically would be by definition bad writing.

Another thing. A few people have mentioned that Kusunoki should have told Moe about her realizing she likes him. If you look at this situation in a bubble with no context. Yeah that would be an appropriate thing to do, but if you consider the very reason for her being isolated being a VERY similar situation to this it makes perfect sense for her to want to keep it bottled up. Hell she even tried the chapter immediately after she realized those feelings to suppress them and get over them. She just couldn't.

At the same time I do agree with what Hebikawa said. Moe has been willfully ignorant about them. The problem is have with the way Hebikawa is handling this is just her doing her same old thing she has been doing. Her motivations have not changed. She wants to "expose" Kusunoki's non existent dark side. That being her motivation makes it easy to believe (despite what some of her defenders say) she is trying to break this friend group up. The direct result of that would be beneficial to her end goal of "Exposing her dark side". Ultimately because of her character as a whole if you look at it objectively she did everything this chapter with malicious intent. The problem with people defending her by saying "She is not trying to break up their friend group" takes away from the very thing that makes her an interesting character to begin with.

 

[Ragnolock]

So you got nothing huh? Alright then.

You still craving my attention? I didn't sign up to be your babysitter. I will need compensation for that.

 

[Darklight99]

You still craving my attention? I didn't sign up to be your babysitter. I will need compensation for that.

Now you're just using what I said to you with slight changes. This is sad, you can't come up with anything original. Go on now, reply to this so that you can have the final word and relax, I'm sure you're getting annoyed that I wouldn't let you have the final word.

 

[IotaCS]

You still craving my attention? I didn't sign up to be your babysitter. I will need compensation for that.

Now you're just using what I said to you with slight changes. This is sad, you can't come up with anything original. Go on now, reply to this so that you can have the final word and relax, I'm sure you're getting annoyed that I wouldn't let you have the final word.

You've both been childishly trying to get the last word in for multiple pages of comments now, and it's honestly pathetic. You're clearly never going to agree on anything, so please just drop it. It's incredibly annoying when the majority of the comments on every page is a pair of fuckwits trading schoolyard insults.

 

[GregoryFregory]

if kusunoki isn't being malicious with the way she's still hiding her true feeling about shizuki to moe then hebi isn't being malicious either by telling moe that kusunoki might have developed a romantic feeling toward shizuki. glad we cleared that up

 

[MrPP118]

if kusunoki isn't being malicious with the way she's still hiding her true feeling about shizuki to moe then hebi isn't being malicious either by telling moe that kusunoki might have developed a romantic feeling toward shizuki. glad we cleared that up

Sorry that particular point isn't up for debate.

Hebi IS being malicious, with everything she's doing, she wants the chaos, she wants to see Kusunoki get upset (and by extension doesn't care about upsetting Moe) Hebi is willing to do anything and everything to see Kusunoki's "dark side" without caring about the consequences.

On the otherside, Kusunoki is feeling anxious about the situation and doesn't know how to handle it exactly because of her past.

 

[Ragnolock]

You've both been childishly trying to get the last word in for multiple pages of comments now, and it's honestly pathetic. You're clearly never going to agree on anything, so please just drop it. It's incredibly annoying when the majority of the comments on every page is a pair of fuckwits trading schoolyard insults.

Actually I have not directly insulted him once. I am well aware what is going on with him desperately trying to get the last word. That is why I am indulging in his back and forth. I am also well aware we are both being childish about this. I'll stop replying to him because as I said before. I can be the bigger man at times. Especially when dealing with an actual child.

 

[IotaCS]

I'll stop replying to him because as I said before. I can be the bigger man at times. Especially when dealing with an actual child.

You've said that multiple times, but you just keep coming back and seem to lack the self awareness to see that you're acting in basically the same way as him. In fact you're the worse offender when it comes to refusing to let it go, hence why you felt the need to justify yourself when I called you both out. Now, let me demonstrate what you two should've done 10 pages ago:

I've made my point, whether you continue to argue and annoy other readers is entirely up to you, but either way way this is the last time I'll be responding to either of you. Goodbye.

 

[Ragnolock]

You've said that multiple times, but you just keep coming back and seem to lack the self awareness to see that you're acting in basically the same way as him. In fact you're the worse offender when it comes to refusing to let it go, hence why you felt the need to justify yourself when I called you both out. Now, let me demonstrate what you two should've done 10 pages ago:

I've made my point, whether you continue to argue and annoy other readers is entirely up to you, but either way way this is the last time I'll be responding to either of you. Goodbye.

Toodles

 

[LeonsamaX]

I respect it

 

[jairosu]

What NTR? Kusunoki constantly friendzones the MC, and she does it in this chapter too. Moe has a crush on the MC, but she currently keeps it a secret from him.

Nobody is in a relationship in this manga right now. It’s just crushes and denials. Where is the NTR?

Kusunoki friend zones the MC because IF she went out with the MC she risks the relationship between het and Otobe. Sure, they are friends but feelings are attached. NTR isn't strictly stealing someone's partner, its stealing someone important, it is destroying a bond. When a character gets with his friend's mom THAT IS NTR, sure the friend isnt dating his mom but the mom is someone IMPORTANT to him. BY getting with their parent you are disregarding your friend for your own desperations. its why when Hebikawa steals MC from Kusunoki I consider that NTR.

The bond between Kusunoki and MC is STRONGER than a classmate crush. MC struggled with his trauma to make friends and Kusunoki also struggled with her trauma of losing friends. Both bonded and helped each other be the best versions of themselves. Both are MORE than your usual friends, who you mainly only game with, these two CHANGED each other's personality. If Kusunoki was some random classmate crushing on MC then it's not NTR, but THIS is in my books. ALSO, NTR is deliberate, the snake KNOWS what she is doing and is HAPPY with destroying the bond these two characters have. Accidental NTR isn't a thing

 

[ThelunchofChickens]

Came for the manga, stay for the drama

 

[GalladeGuy]

Didn't even make it to comment 300, I thought this site had some real debatebros.

 

[TrueStarBlazer]

Welp, snakey is in the race officially now and she is BULLDOZING lmao

 

[Trolliconics]

I'm curious what you think will happen next as I'm so sure it will enter "no man's land" as far as romcom is concerned, if you think there might a development where it could lead to Hebikawa winning, I don't think so.

What I am expected to happen is for Hebikawa to continue prodding Kusunoki and Moe while getting closer with Keisuke, half genuine and half to use him in her plans but this will all come to a head when Hebi starts catching real feelings for him and then impulsively pushes Kusunoki more to see her "dark side" only for it to backfire when Keisuke catches her.

Keisuke rejects her, chooses Kusunoki and we actually see Hebi get upset for once, for me, at the end of the day, Kusunoki is the clear winner and I don't see this being a Himaten situation (not counting that lemon series since it's not over yet) where the side girl will win.

In order for Hebi to win she would seriously have to change and this can all come crashing down once Keisuke does find out about Hebi trying to hurt Kusunoki and on Kusunoki's side in order for Keisuke to stop having feelings for her she would seriously have to mess up badly, which, I don't think will happen, it's more likely for there to be friction between Moe and Kusunoki at this rate.

I never asked for Hebikawa to win
I only asked for Hebikawa to make the story more satisfying since she's at the heart of what makes this story worth reading
Whether she wins or loses it doesn't matter
She just needs to keep being the driving force of the story
If she were to win i'd be happy but i wouldn't even know what her "winning" would look like
Her going through a massive character arc by the end of the story is my personal win
If she's ends up winning Keisuke's heart in the process, i'm perfectly fine with that
I'm 50/50 if this series is going to pull a Himaten since it seems more series are willing to let side girls win
I will say im more invested in Keisuke x Hebikawa dynamic than any other character dynamic
That's not even in a romantic sense
I just find there conversations more interesting and dynamic than any other pair which is why i like their chapters the most

 

[MrPP118]

Welp, snakey is in the race officially now and she is BULLDOZING lmao

She's in the race to break as many girls as possible, as far as the race for Keisuke's heart is concerned, that's a race where she'll take too long to realise her feelings.

I never asked for Hebikawa to win
I only asked for Hebikawa to make the story more satisfying since she's at the heart of what makes this story worth reading
Whether she wins or loses it doesn't matter
She just needs to keep being the driving force of the story
If she were to win i'd be happy but i wouldn't even know what her "winning" would look like
Her going through a massive character arc by the end of the story is my personal win
If she's ends up winning Keisuke's heart in the process, i'm perfectly fine with that
I'm 50/50 if this series is going to pull a Himaten since it seems more series are willing to let side girls win
I will say im more invested in Keisuke x Hebikawa dynamic than any other character dynamic
That's not even in a romantic sense
I just find there conversations more interesting and dynamic than any other pair which is why i like their chapters the most

That's fine, as far as the Himaten stuff goes, believe me, not that many series are going down that path, for every series that has a sidegirl win, 100 more have the main girl win.

As far as Keisuke and Hebikawa's romantic potential goes, I don't see it, not in a sense of denying the possibility but rather I don't see it being successful.

I can see Hebikawa's feelings for him going stronger.
I can see them going on dates.
I can even see a bit of teasing of such a possiblity.

But ultimately, Hebikawa will fail to land the win, simply because of Keisuke's trauma towards her still and when her scheming against Kusunoki is revealed that will burn any romantic development she had with him since Keisuke will see she hasn't changed at all, declaring his hatred for her and Hebi will only be left with a hollow victory at the end of all her planning.

Of course this is when her character will change, when she starts accepting that not everyone is so broken and that there are good people in the world, like you said, the best win for Hebikawa is simply undergoing a massive character arc.

 

[Trolliconics]

That's fine, as far as the Himaten stuff goes, believe me, not that many series are going down that path, for every series that has a sidegirl win, 100 more have the main girl win.

As far as Keisuke and Hebikawa's romantic potential goes, I don't see it, not in a sense of denying the possibility but rather I don't see it being successful.

I can see Hebikawa's feelings for him going stronger.
I can see them going on dates.
I can even see a bit of teasing of such a possiblity.

But ultimately, Hebikawa will fail to land the win, simply because of Keisuke's trauma towards her still and when her scheming against Kusunoki is revealed that will burn any romantic development she had with him since Keisuke will see she hasn't changed at all, declaring his hatred for her and Hebi will only be left with a hollow victory at the end of all her planning.

Of course this is when her character will change, when she starts accepting that not everyone is so broken and that there are good people in the world, like you said, the best win for Hebikawa is simply undergoing a massive character arc.

I see their romantic relationship in a similar light too
I don't really see how Hebikawa and Keisuke can be in love with the way Hebikawa is now
Which is why i'd love for her to go through a character arc as the story is going on so she can be a realistic love interest for Keisuke
I feel like that would signify her growth as a character
Im not sure how likely that is to happen since i dont know any other characters similar to Hebikawa
Probably how she can cause so much controversy
Now im not sure who will win
High chances of Kusunoki winning since her name is in the title and she's the main heroine
But i feel like the author is very much aware Hebikawa is their most popular character based off the popularity poll she done some time ago
Whether that increases her odds of winning idk but i question if that'll be used as a reference for how it'll affect later chapters
Whether you love her or hate her it's pretty clear to see any chapter with Hebikawa in it are the most popular
Should note a character being popular doesn't mean they should win or be held in a higher standard than other characters
But i do think it's important to be aware what people like in a story

 

[Telesto44]

I'm 50/50 if this series is going to pull a Himaten since it seems more series are willing to let side girls win

I wasn't caught up or even rooting for Himari but this sounds like a load of dogshit lol. Like yeah it would be nice if the ending wasn't completely obvious, but this sounds like they just subverted shit for sake of having a twist.

 

[Wizardrone]

No, she is nasty in a deliberately hurtful way.

thats how i like them

But certainly she will come for the better; hopefully; as the manga continues

reading this thread warms me a little!!

 

[Trolliconics]

I wasn't caught up or even rooting for Himari but this sounds like a load of dogshit lol. Like yeah it would be nice if the ending was completely obvious, but this sounds like they just subverted shit for sake of having a twist.

Look i aint trying to get into an discussion about Himaten inside of a Kusunoki thread
But Himaten kinda dropped the ball in a lot of ways
I already didn't like it since it was a heavily cliched story and only speed read it to see the hype about a side character winning
There was no hype
Himaten ending was white bread boring that lead me feeling the entire story couldve ended 50 chapters earlier
You should let side characters win if they have better character chemistry with the MC than any other character
The side character in Himaten didn't have that in the slightest
Hebikawa has the most interesting character dynamic with the MC by far but not necesaarily in a romantic way
But her potential as a romantic partner based on how she grows as a character outshines every other girl in this manga
She's already far more interesting than both Kusunoki and Moe combined
She's just not a realistic romance partner for Keisuke based on their history
If she can genuinely make up for all the trauma she inflicted on Keisuke I can see her winning this
But the problem is im not sure if the mangaka can cook something so nuanced like that in a romcom manga
But i want them to cook since i think the payoff would be tramendous
I mean i cant think of any other romcom where everyone hates a character
Then as the story progresses half the fanbase start to like them to the point of having controversial battles in a comment section with the people who still dont like them
Hebikawa is one of a kind in my eyes which is why this comment section is peak