Publish a definitive policy regarding DMCA and account suspension

[Hicleric]

I've recently heard rumblings that there's a new(ish?) suspension policy stemming from copyright strikes due to DMCA, yet there seems to be no mention of this in the TOS or applicable policies (including the community guidelines) aside from boilerplate. This seems like it could cause popular TLers to disappear in very short order. Is this an official change? Misrepresentation of how things are actually conducted? Result of outside counsel requiring an accountability system to appease DMCA?

And if this has officially practically changed, there should be a visible publication of the revised policy, no?

cough umpteenth request for More Transparency (TM) cough

 

[RogueKitsune]

Technically speaking the digital millennium copyright act (DMCA) requires content hosts to implement some sort of "punishment" feature. So the assumption is that requirement drove this change.

As far as "we" can tell there was an API level change that was deployed in late July and early August. No one on the MD moderation team was made aware that this change was coming nor that it was pushed live. Around mid august the first victim of this change was confirmed and it was found out if a user has 30 chapters taken down by takedown requests their account would lose upload permissions. Yes, that was 30 chapters. Not being hit by 30 different takedown requests, but 30 chapters, of which all could be in one request... So pretty much anyone with a large number of chapters uploaded is an easy target.

As to why no announcement was made, I have my speculations (inset tin foil hat meme here) but I am not going to list them as I got in a lot of trouble the last time i did that...

yet there seems to be no mention of this in the TOS or applicable policies (including the community guidelines) aside from boilerplate.

That vague boiler plate is there for exactly these cases. Just pick out a couple seemingly unrelated section and bam, "we can ban you for whatever reason lmao" appears out of no where. So there is no "need" to update anything because you "agreed" to it already. (though vagueness is arguably a necessary evil)

One of the things about how this was implemented, other than no announcement, which annoys me, is that it applies to chapters uploaded before the great purge and change in policy (i.e. that checkbox when uploading). In my opinion those chapter fall under the previous policy and it was not made clear enough to users that all of those chapters they previously uploaded could get them in trouble even if they did not accept the current terms when uploading. To be clear I am not saying the chapters shouldn't be removed when there is a valid request, all I am saying is that they should not count as strikes against users. TLDR; chapters before may 2025, no strikes; everything after, strikes

cough umpteenth request for More Transparency (TM) cough

LMAO
if this blows up there will be another month or two of transparency before its par for the course again

Disclaimer: Not a mod or staff of MD or NC. The above is the insane rambling of a schizophrenic terminally online individual. Please do not sue me.

 

[Hicleric]

The followup question is, are the suspensions permanent? Appealable? I'm usually on the less doomsayer side when it comes to site revisions but without knowing the contours or long-term goals for this new policy, I don't see it accomplishing much beyond quickly driving MD to an empty shell of its current self.

Also, how much speculation and misinformation can we spread before better-knowing MD staff step in?

 

[RogueKitsune]

The followup question is, are the suspensions permanent? Appealable?

Out of the 3 users that I know have lost permissions to upload I have not seen any of them upload anything since confirming they were impacted. So my GUESS would be that the loss of upload permissions is permanent and not appealable. But that is just my GUESS. Please reach out to your friendly neighborhood moderator for official information and clarification on any terms of use/policies.


Disclaimer: Not a mod or staff of MD or NC. The above is the insane rambling of a schizophrenic terminally online individual. Please do not sue me.

 

[Bartolumiu]

As to why no announcement was made, I have my speculations (inset tin foil hat meme here) but I am not going to list them as I got in a lot of trouble the last time i did that...

We simply don't get any info from management until stuff is already done or gets discovered by users (that is, if we even get an answer)

if this blows up there will be another month or two of transparency before its par for the course again

That'd already be more info than we already get ourselves

Disclaimer: Not a mod or staff of MD or NC. The above is the insane rambling of a schizophrenic terminally online individual. Please do not sue me.

Aight, time to sue you I guess

 

[Bartolumiu]

The followup question is, are the suspensions permanent? Appealable? I'm usually on the less doomsayer side when it comes to site revisions but without knowing the contours or long-term goals for this new policy, I don't see it accomplishing much beyond quickly driving MD to an empty shell of its current self.

Suspensions permanent: Initially I think they were? idk, they changed something afterwards but can't see what the specifics are (infra, work faster pls, I want to push fixes for the frontend)
Appealable: The strikes ae calculated based on accepted unavailable chapters after the system got enabled, so unless you somehow manage to get a chapter reinstated via counter claim (not recommended unless you DO have the appropriate rights), I'm afraid it's not possible sadly

Also, how much speculation and misinformation can we spread before better-knowing MD staff step in?

Please tell me you don't actually think someone will actually come... otherwise you'll be waiting here forever...

 

[Manko-sensei]

Please tell me you don't actually think someone will actually come... otherwise you'll be waiting here forever...

True, I no longer see purple people online, no one should realise if you started a coup d'état...

 

[Hicleric]

Please tell me you don't actually think someone will actually come... otherwise you'll be waiting here forever...

Aw, and here I was hoping you'd be official...enough

What's the over under on an existing staff account getting le boot by the revised system? Can I put some Dex points on it in advance of next year's April Fools?
yes I know staff aren't subject to the TOS and mechanically it would be easily resolved, but the irony would be delicious

 

[Bartolumiu]

Aw, and here I was hoping you'd be official...enough

What's the over under on an existing staff account getting le boot by the revised system? Can I put some Dex points on it in advance of next year's April Fools?
yes I know staff aren't subject to the TOS and mechanically it would be easily resolved, but the irony would be delicious

I mean, staff accounts can also get hit by takedown requests, so it makes sense they can also lose upload rights...
We're simply regular users with funny colours, after all

 

[Mangamoz]

We simply don't get any info from management until stuff is already done or gets discovered by users (that is, if we even get an answer)

That'd already be more info than we already get ourselves

Aight, time to sue you I guess

Damn UKeleles and their Big Brother aspirations.

 

[Bartolumiu]

Damn UKeleles and their Big Brother aspirations.

It's not the "Big Brother", it's the Onii-chan! Remember, the difference is important!

 

[boursk]

It's not the "Big Brother", it's the Onii-chan! Remember, the difference is important!

 

[Jergens]

True, I no longer see purple people online

I don't want to be all DOOM and GLOOM, but this is an incredibly sad state of the site with the purge and what feels like a group purge every week. Fuck man, I remember when the OG's still uploaded chapters and hentai and the good ole V3 UI.

 

[Manko-sensei]

It's not the "Big Brother", it's the Onii-chan! Remember, the difference is important!

View attachment 68118

A good imouto uses "Nii-ni", not Onii-chan!

I don't want to be all DOOM and GLOOM, but this is an incredibly sad state of the site with the purge and what feels like a group purge every week. Fuck man, I remember when the OG's still uploaded chapters and hentai and the good ole V3 UI.

Sadly, scanlating stuff (or simply uploading it) is no longer a passion around here.

 

[BestBoy]

(DMCA) requires content hosts to implement some sort of "punishment" feature.

Doesn't the removal of the work they did cleaning, redrawing, and translating the chapter qualify as punishment? I still think removing upload permissions is unnecessary.

 

[Angry_Panda]

Usual disclaimer that I'm not MD staff or a lawyer, this isn't legal advice, you should be nice to the mods and call your mother, etc.

Here's the clause buried in the DMCA (in 17 U.S. Code § 512) that seems most likely to apply to this particular situation (italics mine):

(i) Conditions for Eligibility.—
(1)Accommodation of technology.—The limitations on liability established by this section shall apply to a service provider only if the service provider—
(A) has adopted and reasonably implemented, and informs subscribers and account holders of the service provider’s system or network of, a policy that provides for the termination in appropriate circumstances of subscribers and account holders of the service provider’s system or network who are repeat infringers; and
(B) accommodates and does not interfere with standard technical measures.

So for MD to be indemnified, they must (among other things) have a means of 'terminating account holders who are repeat infringers' - in this case, by revoking their upload rights. They also must inform account holders of this, which if you dig into the Content Policy, could arguably be considered to be done here (in light of copyright infringement being listed as a valid report reason in 3.1.3):

4. Reporting Content
4.3 Repeated violations will result in account suspension.

Personally, I am not in favor of the way this was rolled out without notice to the uploaders, and how this resulted in at least one long-time uploader being surprised by loss of upload privileges, but at the end of the day MD has made the decision to put this mechanic in place, presumably in order to shield the site from more severe repercussions if they are found to be out of compliance with the terms of the DMCA and thus unable to claim the protection that law provides. And for what it's worth, I haven't stopped my monthly donation to the site because of this action.

 

[BestBoy]

they must (among other things) have a means of 'terminating account holders who are repeat infringers'

Feels like there is enough wiggle room in the language of (A) that you could justify never enforcing it. "adopt and implement" "appropriate circumstances"

 

[BestBoy]

This is also compounded by the ban evasion rule. A well intentioned rule that has now become a hindrance. If it must be kept, why not just enforce it sparingly or only in specific cases?

 

[Hicleric]

the way this was rolled out without notice to the uploaders,

There's also a little bit about "reasonably implemented" which probably requires being seen. Maybe it was published in black text on the black background

This is also compounded by the ban evasion rule. A well intentioned rule that has now become a hindrance. If it must be kept, why not just enforce it sparingly or only in specific cases?

Conspiracy theory: the rule against ban evasion will not be enforced against popular uploaders so they can create more accounts to upload and therefore increase user counts, thus making the entire endeavor more valuable to the shareholders

 

[BestBoy]

increase user counts

It would only lead to a few hundred more accounts. A tiny, tiny drop in the bucket.