Tsuihou Suru Gawa no Monogatari - Ch. 15 - Visit to a Grave

[Rafalga]

I like that entire party becomes empathetic as fuck only after kicking Est. Did the guy killed everyones parents just before the banishment?

Great writing.

 

[Rex_Nichts]

From @not_yamato 's comment, this series had 4.12 rating at 3:40PM UTC+0. 11 hours later, it's gone down to a beautiful 4.05, a full 0.07 ratings down. I forgot exactly how much it was a chapter ago but iirc it was around 4.3? As I'm writing this, it actually went down to 4.04 lmao

Can we go lower? It's already 13th place from the bottom. The next competition is at 4.02 and further still is 3.99. The rating to beat is 3.84, the current 10th placer. I know we can do it. Just a bit more and we can get this to the bottom 10, let's go!

 

[SKY0000]

From @not_yamato 's comment, this series had 4.12 rating at 3:40PM UTC+0. 11 hours later, it's gone down to a beautiful 4.05, a full 0.07 ratings down. I forgot exactly how much it was a chapter ago but iirc it was around 4.3? As I'm writing this, it actually went down to 4.04 lmao

Can we go lower? It's already 13th place from the bottom. The next competition is at 4.02 and further still is 3.99. The rating to beat is 3.84, the current 10th placer. I know we can do it. Just a bit more and we can get this to the bottom 10, let's go!

How do you fiter by rating?

 

[SKY0000]

Hey, big fan of Haikai scans here. Are you for real, asking for help to translate such hated manga? Honestly I have this one in "Reading" just to mine salt and spoilers in the coments.

"Hated manga" and that's the fun part for us lol. Anyways, there's only half of the chapters left so might as well finish translating the entire series since we started it.
Would have dropped it for sure if it was an ongoing series with 50+ chapters.

 

[Kaarme]

So you agree; Athena shouldn't be an adventurer, Daru should have left her to support Est's growth, and the only reason he didn't was because he saw a childhood friend of the main heroin as competition for her affections?

That doesn't make much sense. None of them should not try to be an adventurer if they want to be an adventurer. Est also became an adventurer once he left Athena's party. In her party, he was only an adventurer in name. It's possible if he had remained, he would have never tried to be anything more, so it wasn't the right place for him, considering how successful he became outside of it.

Why the heck would Daru follow Est? He only wanted to see if Athena, who invited him to join, could actually become an excellent adventurer. For a long time he didn't really care much about anything else, which is why he didn't really coach them. And which is why he never tried to "fix" Est's attitude. When they fell in performance after Est left, he finally decided to be more active about it, to get Athena back on her feet.

Daru hasn't so far been actively chasing romance with Athena, as far as I can see. Though with the high number of fantasy manga I read, maybe I've utterly forgotten some scenes that showed otherwise. It wouldn't be the first time.

 

[SpecialProjectY]

That doesn't make much sense. None of them should not try to be an adventurer if they want to be an adventurer. Est also became an adventurer once he left Athena's party. In her party, he was only an adventurer in name. It's possible if he had remained, he would have never tried to be anything more, so it wasn't the right place for him, considering how successful he became outside of it.

Why the heck would Daru follow Est? He only wanted to see if Athena, who invited him to join, could actually become an excellent adventurer. For a long time he didn't really care much about anything else, which is why he didn't really coach them. And which is why he never tried to "fix" Est's attitude. When they fell in performance after Est left, he finally decided to be more active about it, to get Athena back on her feet.

Daru hasn't so far been actively chasing romance with Athena, as far as I can see. Though with the high number of fantasy manga I read, maybe I've utterly forgotten some scenes that showed otherwise. It wouldn't be the first time.

1. Daru coaching powers seems to unlock hidden abilities, but if there's a dick around they're suppressed.

2. See point 1.

3. It's not directly, but rather "typical vegetarian japanese somehow making progress by being oblivious", from the going out shopping to praising in the right moments. He's either extremely unaware or never in relationship, but given his age it's rather unlikely.

 

[Yasmat25y]

That doesn't make much sense. None of them should not try to be an adventurer if they want to be an adventurer. Est also became an adventurer once he left Athena's party. In her party, he was only an adventurer in name. It's possible if he had remained, he would have never tried to be anything more, so it wasn't the right place for him, considering how successful he became outside of it.

Why the heck would Daru follow Est? He only wanted to see if Athena, who invited him to join, could actually become an excellent adventurer. For a long time he didn't really care much about anything else, which is why he didn't really coach them. And which is why he never tried to "fix" Est's attitude. When they fell in performance after Est left, he finally decided to be more active about it, to get Athena back on her feet.

Daru hasn't so far been actively chasing romance with Athena, as far as I can see. Though with the high number of fantasy manga I read, maybe I've utterly forgotten some scenes that showed otherwise. It wouldn't be the first time.

I dont know if he was invited specifically by Athena, it just says that he and the mage girl joined Est and Athena after they started the party.
But I do know that instead of leaving the party after seeing that Athena wasn't strong enough to defend herself (something they kicked Est out of the party for) he continued to support her. Why didn't he do this with Est? Why does Daru want to support specifically Athena and not Est? Why is he okay with Athena, the mage girl, and himself being driven to dangerous encounters without the support of Est, but Est being hurt once was too much? Could Est being male have something to do with it?
It doesn't feel that way, until the misunderstanding happens and while he can see the conclusion that Est would be drawn to, Daru then refuses to clarify what happened to Est and doesn't let Athena know that the situation even took place. Further letting wedges be driven between the two characters.

 

[Rafalga]

1. Daru coaching powers seems to unlock hidden abilities, but if there's a dick around they're suppressed.

2. See point 1.

3. It's not directly, but rather "typical vegetarian japanese somehow making progress by being oblivious", from the going out shopping to praising in the right moments. He's either extremely unaware or never in relationship, but given his age it's rather unlikely.

You are wasting your breath. There is always 1 or 2 guys in threads of every overwhelmingly bad manga giving out some absolute unhinged takes that will never change no matter what you say. Its ok to discuss if there was any merit in said discussion. But in this case? Not really, considering this is like what? bottom 10 lowest rated manga at this point?

 

[Kaarme]

I dont know if he was invited specifically by Athena, it just says that he and the mage girl joined Est and Athena after they started the party.
But I do know that instead of leaving the party after seeing that Athena wasn't strong enough to defend herself (something they kicked Est out of the party for) he continued to support her. Why didn't he do this with Est? Why does Daru want to support specifically Athena and not Est? Why is he okay with Athena, the mage girl, and himself being driven to dangerous encounters without the support of Est, but Est being hurt once was too much? Could Est being male have something to do with it?
It doesn't feel that way, until the misunderstanding happens and while he can see the conclusion that Est would be drawn to, Daru then refuses to clarify what happened to Est and doesn't let Athena know that the situation even took place. Further letting wedges be driven between the two characters.

This chapter showed how Daru was nothing but an irate drunkard after losing his old party. Despite the dude being in such a deplorable state, Athena approached him and convinced him to join the party. It pretty much means she saved him as a human being. The thing that really hit him home, apparently, was that Athena reminded Daru of his dead comrade. Still, it makes perfect sense he would have a callous or at least hesitant attitude in the beginning; you can't replace a dead friend with a new person so easily, plus when the new person is seemingly following the same dream as the dead one, it might be pretty hard to be fully encouraging.

In short, Daru isn't an especially outstanding guy. He didn't have that much interest in bringing up Est, but he also didn't want to watch him getting killed. Like I said before, only when Athena suddenly dropped in performance, Daru decided to become a coach. Athena was the only reason he's not a drunkard waste of a skin anymore, which is plenty of reason and motivation. Est never was that personally important to him.

As opposed to what Rafalga is suggesting, I don't consider this high quality writing. However, I do recognise the author did choose an exceedingly difficult task of trying to make this kind of reverse setting work. It didn't turn out that well, but it wasn't an overwhelmingly poor attempt either. I can guarantee 99% of readers here couldn't pull it off any better, so it's easy to criticise.

 

[Rafalga]

This chapter showed how Daru was nothing but an irate drunkard after losing his old party. Despite the dude being in such a deplorable state, Athena approached him and convinced him to join the party. It pretty much means she saved him as a human being. The thing that really hit him home, apparently, was that Athena reminded Daru of his dead comrade. Still, it makes perfect sense he would have a callous or at least hesitant attitude in the beginning; you can't replace a dead friend with a new person so easily, plus when the new person is seemingly following the same dream as the dead one, it might be pretty hard to be fully encouraging.

In short, Daru isn't an especially outstanding guy. He didn't have that much interest in bringing up Est, but he also didn't want to watch him getting killed. Like I said before, only when Athena suddenly dropped in performance, Daru decided to become a coach. Athena was the only reason he's not a drunkard waste of a skin anymore, which is plenty of reason and motivation. Est never was that personally important to him.

As opposed to what Rafalga is suggesting, I don't consider this high quality writing. However, I do recognise the author did choose an exceedingly difficult task of trying to make this kind of reverse setting work. It didn't turn out that well, but it wasn't an overwhelmingly poor attempt either. I can guarantee 99% of readers here couldn't pull it off any better, so it's easy to criticise.

The problem is the absolute hypocrisy of it all. They kicked him out in a way that if you didn't know the background, you would think they outright hate him (in the case of lesbian mage, she actually does).

Athenas performance immidiately drops to zero the moment Est leaves. So what you expect in this case? Party to disband right? Since leader is obviously even more weak than the dude they just kicked out. But no, they all go "lets get stronger!" and everyone becomes x100 understanding all of a sudden to help the weaker member get better. The mage also hides her strenght too by the way and only there because she is after Athenas pussy.

Daru as an MC and PoV character also absoutely doesn't work. Every action he takes including his weird silence concerning the misunderstanding between Est and Athena out right suggest he is doing it all on purpose. You might say he tried telling him and he wouldn't listen but he doesn't say anything to Athena either and lets her think Est is on a powertrip and his resentment is just due to being kicked out. He goes as far as to declare he won't abandon her becuase she is weak right infront of him. Story is so bad that the irony is completely lost on it.

He is a pure breed asshole and totally looks like he is after making his own harem (and according to the source material, he kinda does since everyone is after his dick).

First time i've read this, i thought this is a meta approach to the genre. Like, Banishing party was actual assholes and hypocrites (they are) and they would become self aware overtime. But no. Author actually starts to paint the guy who got completely fucked over like an actual villian while otherside being the good guys. Its so bad that, if you could try to make an MC as hated as Daru, you wouldn't be able to. This story is so hated because author's deranged intentions (make Daru the OP MC, get the girl, appear righteous and noble) can be seen from miles away. There is no nuance. It just feels disgusting.

 

[Ninoren]

You shouldn't be an adventurer if someone else needs to wipe your ass.



This chapter revealed Daru joined the party just to see if Athena has what it takes to push through and become the best. So, it makes sense Daru would try to support Athena to a point. That's it. She's also the figurehead of the party, so obviously she's not going anywhere. Daru is just someone invited in.



Does it matter anymore. Est and Athena (plus the others) are strangers already, going their own ways. Est isn't going to simply forgive getting banished, nor is there any need for it. However, he already feels like he's now much better off, so it's not like Est should be regretting getting kicked out anymore, for real. It's like in RL a random employee of a company getting fired, in a way he's not happy with, but later he founds his own company, understands that's what he should have been doing all along, and succeeds exceedingly well. So, should he remain bitter about getting fired?




So, your point is that Est needed to go his own way to unlock his own potential. Seems like pretty much what I said as well.



There are different kinds of overreliances. Athena was physically relying too much on Est's support, whereas Est was too much relying on Athena's emotional support, rendering him uninterested in personal progress and personal ambitions. He wasn't really an adventurer anymore, just a servant for logistics.

Now that comment was sorta hypocritical.. Saying you shouldn't be an adventurer, if someone has to wipe your ass..

Est was literally trying on his OWN to grow, while being sorta looked down on, he literally had no one to "wipe his ass", meanwhile Daru isn't just wiping Athena's ass.. he's going in tongue deep at this point 😐

And what do you mean he doesn't need to fix the misunderstanding, because he isn't in the party anymore ???
Daru literally trampled on the personal relationship of 2 people, without telling anyone anything 😮‍💨

Who gave him the right to decide anything, besides his small dickbrain

 

[Kaarme]

The problem is the absolute hypocrisy of it all. They kicked him out in a way that if you didn't know the background, you would think they outright hate him (in the case of lesbian mage, she actually does).

First time i've read this, i thought this is a meta approach to the genre. Like, Banishing party was actual assholes and hypocrites (they are) and they would become self aware overtime. But no. Author actually starts to paint the guy who got completely fucked over like an actual villian while otherside being the good guys. Its so bad that, if you could try to make an MC as hated as Daru, you wouldn't be able to. This story is so hated because author's deranged intentions (make Daru the OP MC, get the girl, appear righteous and noble) can be seen from miles away. There is no nuance. It just feels disgusting.

The problem is that's the entire setting of this story. The author decided to approach the usual "MC unjustly gets kicked out of their party, which wasn't so nice to him in the first place, but while on his own he becomes powerful, yet the former party is now struggling majorly without him" from the opposite direction.

That basic setting is present in multiple fantasy series, and it naturally works perfectly in them (as much as cliche can work after the 20th time you see it). However, when you try to actually make the former party the main characters, not the banished hero, there's pretty much no avoiding making them look bad. Because they need to be bad for the setting. So, you must start with characters that readers are predisposed to dislike. If the setting wasn't so strict, the party members wouldn't need to be so bad, and there wouldn't really be any challenge for the author to overcome.

 

[Ninoren]

The problem is that's the entire setting of this story. The author decided to approach the usual "MC unjustly gets kicked out of their party, which wasn't so nice to him in the first place, but while on his own he becomes powerful, yet the former party is now struggling majorly without him" from the opposite direction.

That basic setting is present in multiple fantasy series, and it naturally works perfectly in them (as much as cliche can work after the 20th time you see it). However, when you try to actually make the former party the main characters, not the banished hero, there's pretty much no avoiding making them look bad. Because they need to be bad for the setting. So, you must start with characters that readers are predisposed to dislike. If the setting wasn't so strict, the party members wouldn't need to be so bad, and there wouldn't really be any challenge for the author to overcome.

No, I bet its possible to make the premise work, BUT it's not working here, because the cast is just that unlikeable and shallow it's impossible to root for any of them, especially since every plot point keeps crumbling with each chapter passing 🙄

Like their reason for banishing him in the first place and the way they handled it and everything after is just horrendous ô_ô..

Honestly Daru just looks like a Sex-Fiend at this point and Athena is the shallow woman who fell for it after completely trashing her Childhood Friend, that's basically what it boils down to

 

[Kaarme]

No, I bet its possible to make the premise work, BUT it's not working here, because the cast is just that unlikeable and shallow it's impossible to root for any of them, especially since every plot point keeps crumbling with each chapter passing 🙄

Like their reason for banishing him in the first place and the way they handled it and everything after is just horrendous ô_ô..

Honestly Daru just looks like a Sex-Fiend at this point and Athena is the shallow woman who fell for it after completely trashing her Childhood Friend, that's basically what it boils down to

I'm already repeating myself, but for this setting things need to look terrible. This is exactly the same setting as you would have in the myriad series where the banished party member is the main character. Obviously, then, the former party is made to look bad and the reason for kicking out the MC needs to be dodgy. There's often also something else going on, like the MC liking a certain member of the former party, but suddenly his love interest seems to switch her interest to another member, making the MC feel not only wronged in a professional manner (getting kicked out despite being a crucial member of the party), but also personally when it looks like he was betrayed in a relationship as well.

All of this needed to be present in this series as well. So, the cast being unlikeable and the handling of it all being horrendous must be there. Otherwise this wouldn't be the usual setting. That's why I'm saying there's no helping it.

 

[SpecialProjectY]

In conclusion:

❌ when someone is trying to get better no matter what cost, even their life, ditch him to get better on their own because he has a dick.

✅ when someone is trying to get better no matter what cost, even their life, try your best to support even by making others to support her, because she has a vagina

Peak mentality there. Totally not NTR. Nope. No sir...

 

[YamiryuuZero]

Now that comment was sorta hypocritical.. Saying you shouldn't be an adventurer, if someone has to wipe your ass..

Est was literally trying on his OWN to grow, while being sorta looked down on, he literally had no one to "wipe his ass", meanwhile Daru isn't just wiping Athena's ass.. he's going in tongue deep at this point 😐

And what do you mean he doesn't need to fix the misunderstanding, because he isn't in the party anymore ???
Daru literally trampled on the personal relationship of 2 people, without telling anyone anything 😮‍💨

Who gave him the right to decide anything, besides his small dickbrain

That guy said Est had to learn to wipe his ass and called him an "adventurer in name only", but he was the one carrying the party! Stardust fell to the ground the moment Est left because they cannot function like a team without Est managing their chores, finances, item inventory and buffs.

Est can find success on his own quite easily, while the rest of the party had to learn to do everything back from scratch. Athena can't fight without Est's buffs, Daru and the elf are smurfing and letting their own teammates get heavily injured because they don't want to show their true strength, Frey needs to be physically beaten up for her to realize she's being a bitch, and the reasoning they used to kick Est out of the party - he is a liability - APPLIES TO ALL OF THEM!

Est was the one wiping their asses, not the other way around. It is as Rafalga stated in this thread, some people are here just being contrarians and not actually contributing to the discussion.

 

[Michael_Chandra]

What's the most delicious thing about this manga?
1. Est finding new friends
2. Old party starting anew
3. Everyone becoming stronger

Spoiler

The tears of angry users!

The tears of all the incels raging at the story. They are delicious. So many hate-readers. You know what I do when I don't like a story? I drop it and move on. Yet here they are, all upset, it's awesome how hilarious they are. ^_^

 

[Yasmat25y]

The tears of all the incels raging at the story. They are delicious. So many hate-readers. You know what I do when I don't like a story? I drop it and move on. Yet here they are, all upset, it's awesome how hilarious they are. ^_^

I dont read it. I just hang out in the message boards and try to get people to rate it lower.

You've been reading this and like it? Eww.

 

[Rex_Nichts]

How do you fiter by rating?

You go to advanced search>show filters>sort by>lowest rating

 

[Rex_Nichts]

I dont read it. I just hang out in the message boards and try to get people to rate it lower.

You've been reading this and like it? Eww.

Eyyy, comrade! I really like seeing how low this series goes whenever there's an update. It's like a monthly tradition at this point lmao