Jinsei Gyakuten - Uwaki sare, Enzai wo Kiserareta Ore ga, Gakuen Ichi no Bishoujo ni Natsukareru - Ch. 3

[GIN_8_6_]

You're late to the party, it's all been hashed out already, but I appreciate your added input even if it's redundant at this point.

haha.....domo

 

[Thausamo]

The two most unrealistic aspect of this novel are the teacher trying resolve this shit and POS be the onde who ia spreading the rumor( usually is the cheater who try to do this shit). Every other aspect of this history i've seen or Heard in real life.

 

[elia_zz]

I'm just saying you keep focusing on the MC being "tepid and weak", and that's fine, but you're focusing on the wrong things.

The MC isn't even the "MC", he's simply the catalyst character for the real story to kick off, namely his bullies getting their lives ruined.

Yes, there's a romance element between Eiji and Ai, but that's almost just a side story so you know he has a happy life after almost taking it due to what he'd been put through. But he and Ai are not the true focus point of the plot.

It's all about the revenge/"justice" wrought upon Miuyki and Kondo and all the others who were wrapped up in the bullying campaign. Their downfall is the story. Fullstop.

Keep focusing on your dislike for Eiji and you'll keep missing the actual intent of the author--the consequences that befall the bad guys.

And the sex is important to set that all up, because without it Miyuki doesn't become the antagonist she needs to be. Eiji not having sex is irrelevant, because he is irrelevant once the bullying ends, because his romance with Ai isn't the point.

What a dumb ass plot then, the plot is a campaign for bullying? U got to be seriously Deranged if u like shit like this

 

[elia_zz]

This Guy is just a troll seeking attetion. Don't feed him

I am not seeking attention tho… I just said my opinions and you guys responded to me with your deranged comments about bullying and shit

 

[UdenEmpati]

What a dumb ass plot then, the plot is a campaign for bullying? U got to be seriously Deranged if u like shit like this

I'm just telling you what I've been told. There's a billion other titles out there if this one doesn't fit your tastes.
And, different things appeal to different people. It's fine if this title isn't for you, but calling others deranged because they might enjoy it is a bit mean-spirited, if you ask me.

 

[SilverGrove]

I would only say that, while you're absolutely correct about the nuance of who is a victim versus perpetrator and touching on the cycles of abuse borne of only ever punishing, never seeking to help -
This also isn't the story for that. It is, very intentionally, a story seeking to reverse the usual way these things go, where the victim stays victimized, and the perpetrators--including the victims that are actively complicit--don't see consequences because the adults in the room are just backdrop noise, if not worse than useless and actively make things even harder for the victims (even if "trying to help" on rare occasions).

This is the answer to all the NTR doujin where the woman, even if she was seduced, still revels in the abuse and suffering of her partner at the hands of the antagonist, while everyone around the MC does nothing if they're even aware in the first place.

It's not seeking to be a critique on the genre or the problem presented, it's not meant to be a deep deconstruction of the problems involved in why people do these sorts of things to one another, and how that can be addressed and mitigated while the victims are given help.

It's just a story about revenge and the karmic backlash that comes for those who hurt the protagonist, and there's no time given, by design, to exploring whether some of the characters maybe should have been helped instead of punished at some point.

And regarding Miyuki - she's arguably the worst abuser of Eiji. She's his childhood friend, who knew him for over a decade. She was ostensibly his girlfriend. She chose to listen to her friends, against her better judgement, meet Kondo, get swept up by him, give everything to him, reject Eiji, corroborate the lie of Eiji abusing her, and every step of the way knew what she was doing was wrong, but she liked the sex and the feeling of immorality too much, and then she was worried about the backlash if she fessed up to it all and so she continued to hide it, just so certain that "Eiji still loves me, so he'll definitely forgive me".

At what point does she stop being a victim to Kondo? Sure he's an asshole abuser and manipulator, but she knew something was wrong from the start, and just kept going out of selfishness.

And she only vocally regretted it the moment she actually got caught. And in the context of this manga's message, her retribution is unceasing because even with Kondo, if Miyuki made one different choice somewhere along the way, Eiji doesn't get hurt like he does. And, because it's this story specifically, there's no "rehabilitation or mercy" because that's not the intent behind the premise.

You have no idea how affirming your comments are. I feel like I am finally reaching common ground, I guess I am just not the type of person to enjoy this type of story. For as much as I understand the point of the story, I cannot get past some of its absurdities and I find the way everyone revels in the misery portrayed revolting.

Don't get me wrong, this is mostly my fault for not being able to let go of how this would look like/play out in real life. I just find the way the story continuously beats down on Miyuki gross, especially when contrasted with how the turnaround for Eiji and Ai ended up being. Some part of me cannot help but find it deeply unjust how all the circumstances aligned differently for the characters, not helped by how cartoonishly this is written. I am not asking for high art but surely this message could have been conveyed with less absurdity.

Again, don't get me wrong, I think Miyuki is actually worse than Kondo. She is an absolute piece of refuse and I did not appreciate it at first. I thought she was just a misguided teen but reading comments made me realize that she is a deeply selfish person rotten to the core...but there lies the issue: how did she turn out this way, when her father cheated on her mom and abandoned her, how did she turn out this way when all her role models are practically angels? This is what makes it hard for me to believe and go along with the story.

I understand the appeal of adults actually taking action, it is so rare in this medium in general, and in NTR stories in particular. There is always the extreme isolation that the victim suffers, they get forced to do the vilest things and no one knows or notices, or they are such loners with zero connection that they have no one to turn to. But that's what makes it hard for me to go along with, Eiji is a golden boy and his family has high connections, everyone vouches for his character and he has an endless supply of support and affirmation. I cannot believe that is true while he spent a month or so as a pariah in school. I cannot believe his family or friends did not notice him gradually wasting away and giving up. I cannot believe anyone who has heard the rumors did not try to approach his mom about it in that span of time.

Maybe it is just me being squeamish, but I really cannot stomach how gratuitous the treatment pf Miyuki has been. I read the WN, I am talking about what happens next. Like you said, this story is not about nuance so the idea of redemption is not being entertained, and she will also not be allowed to take the easy way out, so the question I have is: what is she meant to do? Or what are we meant to think of her. Is she supposed to just waste away in bitterness and resentment? She was (and probably still is) incredibly cruel and deserve the consequences of her actions. It was fun for a while, it was cathartic, if a bit stupid given how cartoonish the story is, but it has gotten pretty gross and repulsive to me, how much there seems to be enjoyment over her suffering.

That is not even to speak of absolutely ridiculous stuff like the mastermind who sets up people who may overshadow her to go get corrupted by Kondo, how am I meant to take anything to do with that remotely.

But yeah sorry about that, I came across this a few months ago and I just could not get it out of my mind. I kept coming back to the comments of the chapters and reading yours have been the closest thing to reaching the light lmao.

 

[UdenEmpati]

You have no idea how affirming your comments are. I feel like I am finally reaching common ground, I guess I am just not the type of person to enjoy this type of story. For as much as I understand the point of the story, I cannot get past some of its absurdities and I find the way everyone revels in the misery portrayed revolting.

Don't get me wrong, this is mostly my fault for not being able to let go of how this would look like/play out in real life. I just find the way the story continuously beats down on Miyuki gross, especially when contrasted with how the turnaround for Eiji and Ai ended up being. Some part of me cannot help but find it deeply unjust how all the circumstances aligned differently for the characters, not helped by how cartoonishly this is written. I am not asking for high art but surely this message could have been conveyed with less absurdity.

Again, don't get me wrong, I think Miyuki is actually worse than Kondo. She is an absolute piece of refuse and I did not appreciate it at first. I thought she was just a misguided teen but reading comments made me realize that she is a deeply selfish person rotten to the core...but there lies the issue: how did she turn out this way, when her father cheated on her mom and abandoned her, how did she turn out this way when all her role models are practically angels? This is what makes it hard for me to believe and go along with the story.

I understand the appeal of adults actually taking action, it is so rare in this medium in general, and in NTR stories in particular. There is always the extreme isolation that the victim suffers, they get forced to do the vilest things and no one knows or notices, or they are such loners with zero connection that they have no one to turn to. But that's what makes it hard for me to go along with, Eiji is a golden boy and his family has high connections, everyone vouches for his character and he has an endless supply of support and affirmation. I cannot believe that is true while he spent a month or so as a pariah in school. I cannot believe his family or friends did not notice him gradually wasting away and giving up. I cannot believe anyone who has heard the rumors did not try to approach his mom about it in that span of time.

Maybe it is just me being squeamish, but I really cannot stomach how gratuitous the treatment pf Miyuki has been. I read the WN, I am talking about what happens next. Like you said, this story is not about nuance so the idea of redemption is not being entertained, and she will also not be allowed to take the easy way out, so the question I have is: what is she meant to do? Or what are we meant to think of her. Is she supposed to just waste away in bitterness and resentment? She was (and probably still is) incredibly cruel and deserve the consequences of her actions. It was fun for a while, it was cathartic, if a bit stupid given how cartoonish the story is, but it has gotten pretty gross and repulsive to me, how much there seems to be enjoyment over her suffering.

That is not even to speak of absolutely ridiculous stuff like the mastermind who sets up people who may overshadow her to go get corrupted by Kondo, how am I meant to take anything to do with that remotely.

But yeah sorry about that, I came across this a few months ago and I just could not get it out of my mind. I kept coming back to the comments of the chapters and reading yours have been the closest thing to reaching the light lmao.

No, don't apologize - I am very much in the same boat as you when it comes to the general sentiment you expressed about finding it difficult to separate how this story would play out "were it in our reality" and simply trying to enjoy it in the outrageously exaggerated, cartoonishly-simplified nature it is presented.
I honestly am treating this story as an exercise in learning how to engage with a piece of literature in the spirit it is intended (or what I suspect is the author's intentions), and simultaneously divorcing my own personal perspectives from the characters and the narrative and judging them on the merits of my own personal moral compass.
In doing so, I feel like I both gain a better understanding of how to "take a story on its face", without clouding the premise or the point through my own biases and prejudices, and I learn how to better cope with the often-extreme reactions I can have to more extreme stories and narratives, often without my conscious desire. I am pretty overly sensitive to a lot of things and can feel visceral anxious reactions just from reading stories because I can very easily "walk in the shoes" of a character and identify too deeply with whatever they're going through, whether I've personally experienced it or not. That characteristic of empathy can be useful, but it can also be debilitating when it "activates" even for fictional characters, thus ruining any potential at enjoyment on my part because I can't separate my emotional reaction from the story.

All that said - I think you're on the right track in general. I fully agree with the stance that maybe this just isn't the story for you, but I say that in the sense that it's good you've come to realize that might be the case, because you absolutely should not force yourself to continue engaging with something that actively distresses you or makes you uncomfortable. And just as importantly, you're valid in having that sort of reaction, especially after reflecting and internalizing why you're feeling that way. I myself dance that line constantly, and I've gotten to where I have with this title and the comments I've left here because I've effectively disassociated with the characters and the plot and the implications of the author's intent, and now I simply engage with it in an abstract, almost academic sense - breaking it down into story elements and motifs and character archetypes and motivations, without really giving too much thought to the ethos or pathos of the characters and the humanistic elements of their plights.

But that's not really a good way to enjoy a story; that's how you analyze a written work in preparation for writing a book report. I can say I appreciate what the author is trying to do with Miyuki and Eiji and Kondo in the abstract, but I can't say I necessarily enjoy it or that I would do it the same way, were I the one with the pen and keyboard. And I might end up dropping it soon, if only because the manga adaptation is monthly and has a lot to cover and I've got a TBR list that's over a hundred titles long as it is.

So yeah. I think you've got a good head on your shoulders, approaching this as you have, and I think you're in the right for the conclusions you've drawn, both in your estimations of the characters and the events transpiring, how they would not fly in reality, and your own desire to engage with the story in any deep manner. Hopefully you've plenty of titles that you're actively enjoying, and this one can be a "tried, and set aside" manga series that won't color your perceptions of the general story tropes and motifs that are presented, should you run into them again in the future in a different light.

But I have enjoyed the back and forth we've shared, so if nothing else that's something worthwhile I've gotten out of this one.

 

[Edway89]

I cannot believe that is true while he spent a month or so as a pariah in school.

Just wanted to point out that Eiji's bullying and pariah status lasted for about 2 days and not a month. The entire sequence of event in the WN has not even been up to a month. Yeah the story can get real cartoonish.

 

[SilverGrove]

Just wanted to point out that Eiji's bullying and pariah status lasted for about 2 days and not a month. The entire sequence of event in the WN has not even been up to a month. Yeah the story can get real cartoonish.

Are you for real? I thought it was a month...goodness gracious.

 

[Chucholain]

The girl cheating and having the nerve to call someone else a homewrecker lmao the irony and hypocirsy! Im glad that the teachers and principals looks like theyll actually do something about the bullying for something thats not even proven. Hope we get more series were the teachers actually do something about bullying

 

[Knightxe4]

The girl cheating and having the nerve to call someone else a homewrecker lmao the irony and hypocirsy! Im glad that the teachers and principals looks like theyll actually do something about the bullying for something thats not even proven. Hope we get more series were the teachers actually do something about bullying

I wish, but that seems as rare as they come. Honestly, that alone is what sets this series apart.

 

[Beatrice]

I definitely do agree with what you have said overall, and while I'm still going through everything, I just picked this one since it was there to reply to so this reply really isn't to this post specifically, just the overall sentiment you have.

The main semi-counter argument I would like to provide is that the timeline in the WN is, well, fucked. There is a lot happening in this story and it's a slap in the face every time we cut to Ai saying something along the lines of "I can't believe it's only been X days", and that slap really knocked me out of the story every time it was brought up since how the hell did all that happen in that short of time? It's been a minute since I've read it so this is gonna be a bit hyperbolic, but basically everything that happens is in the timespan of a month. The longest time gap we really have is during the DIET meeting with Ai's father where he said it would take a few months to conclude and even with that we still don't quite know if it actually took that length of time.

To bring it into why it's a semi-counter, in order for redemption to happen time needs to happen first. With how quick everything happens we are tricked into thinking that time has passed when in the story it really has only been a few days, a week, maybe a month before my spoiler happens. The betrayal by Amada is still extremely fresh in everyone's mind, which is why the abuse towards her hasn't let up. If the timeline happens more realistically where all these events in the story were more spread out, I'd 100% be on board that people need to let up on Amada and leave her be so she can grow. That's not what happens though since the timeline is unrealistic and it all happens so quickly.

Again, I'm really not disagreeing with the point you are presenting. I do wish for more nuance in manga characters in general since people are very complicated and it would be nice to see that complication explored in this medium. I would love to see revenge-porn stories where the antagonists grow into proper people despite what happened. The main point I'm trying to get to though is to hopefully provide another perspective as to why Amada is getting bombarded as much as she is, and it really just boils down to the author not properly planning imo. Hopefully I got that across well enough.

Huh? I think what you're saying is correct, but this sounds very strange.

How long was Eiji being bullied for then?

That wasnt a mere "wrong choice". Somethimes a wrong choice can have consequences so permanent and severe that there can never be true atonement for it.

She completely destroyed his life and drove him to attempting suicide just so she could keep getting dicked by an asshole that hates her.

Imagine, what if he successfully commit suicide? Should her punishment also end and be let off with a less severe punishment? Or is it just because he is still alive that the punishment is too severe? She actively, knowingly and willfully put him through some horrific torment and only felt guilty after having to see his state continue to deteriorate. She isnt even remorseful about he actions most of the time, just resentful that he managed to find a better woman.

So no, when you do something so atrocious it could've ended in someone dying then whatever punishment happens is just deserved. After all, there is nothing more permanent than death, her punishment should be no different than if he DID die that day.

Wrong. This is not even true in real life. There are degrees to wrongdoing that address both intent and action. Ex: A case of attempted murder does not necessitate an equal penalty to murder of the first, or even the second, degree.

If Eiji died, this story and its consequences would be a lot different from it is now. But he didn't. So how does "any" punishment fit? Miyuki didn't intend for her to kill himself, nor did she direct him to do so. She is an accessory to his attempted suicide. This, apparently, goes both ways, as Miyuki attempts suicide herself? So if she dies, this means everyone involved in it deserves "any" punishment too, right? Including the teachers who failed to do anything about it? Know that this is also bullying and that "she started it" would not absolve the crime. An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.


Had Eiji died as a result of her actions, she would be punished according to that reality. But that didn't happen, so punish her in proportion to that. Lastly, I want to say that the discussions on "mistakes" and "wrong choice" are thoroughly lacking in nuance. A mistake isn't a matter of conscious decisions. A person's awareness contributes significantly. Miyuki is a child. Regardless of what they might know, they are not expected to have the emotional or mental competence of an adult. It is for this very reason that we don't take a teenager's word as consent on its own, otherwise sexual predators could get away with just that. That's just not how the world works.

I'll say it again: Miyuki is a child. Clearly a stupid and easily manipulated one. But that doesn't make her a moustache-twirling villain or a psychopath who delights in the suffering of others. Whatever you want to pin on her: cheating, accessory to bullying, a proper man or woman would shake their head in disappointment at her bullshit and tell her to wise up. It is also within their rights to wash their hands of her situation, as they have no further obligation. Teachers should reprimand her, then give options and support within their scope. Her life is barely starting, and one mistake shouldn't be the end of it. She has countless options ahead, good or bad. Someone who would celebrate a child being driven to suicide for something like this in real life would be sick in the head. Good thing that this is revenge fantasy porn.

 

[jojoka]

This is manga fandom bro people here act like cheating is worse than murder, Miyuki could literally get waterboarded, lobotomised and hung strung quartered and people on here will act like her punishment wasn't far enough lol.

 

[crvstacean9]

You have no idea how affirming your comments are. I feel like I am finally reaching common ground, I guess I am just not the type of person to enjoy this type of story. For as much as I understand the point of the story, I cannot get past some of its absurdities and I find the way everyone revels in the misery portrayed revolting.

Don't get me wrong, this is mostly my fault for not being able to let go of how this would look like/play out in real life. I just find the way the story continuously beats down on Miyuki gross, especially when contrasted with how the turnaround for Eiji and Ai ended up being. Some part of me cannot help but find it deeply unjust how all the circumstances aligned differently for the characters, not helped by how cartoonishly this is written. I am not asking for high art but surely this message could have been conveyed with less absurdity.

Again, don't get me wrong, I think Miyuki is actually worse than Kondo. She is an absolute piece of refuse and I did not appreciate it at first. I thought she was just a misguided teen but reading comments made me realize that she is a deeply selfish person rotten to the core...but there lies the issue: how did she turn out this way, when her father cheated on her mom and abandoned her, how did she turn out this way when all her role models are practically angels? This is what makes it hard for me to believe and go along with the story.

I understand the appeal of adults actually taking action, it is so rare in this medium in general, and in NTR stories in particular. There is always the extreme isolation that the victim suffers, they get forced to do the vilest things and no one knows or notices, or they are such loners with zero connection that they have no one to turn to. But that's what makes it hard for me to go along with, Eiji is a golden boy and his family has high connections, everyone vouches for his character and he has an endless supply of support and affirmation. I cannot believe that is true while he spent a month or so as a pariah in school. I cannot believe his family or friends did not notice him gradually wasting away and giving up. I cannot believe anyone who has heard the rumors did not try to approach his mom about it in that span of time.

Maybe it is just me being squeamish, but I really cannot stomach how gratuitous the treatment pf Miyuki has been. I read the WN, I am talking about what happens next. Like you said, this story is not about nuance so the idea of redemption is not being entertained, and she will also not be allowed to take the easy way out, so the question I have is: what is she meant to do? Or what are we meant to think of her. Is she supposed to just waste away in bitterness and resentment? She was (and probably still is) incredibly cruel and deserve the consequences of her actions. It was fun for a while, it was cathartic, if a bit stupid given how cartoonish the story is, but it has gotten pretty gross and repulsive to me, how much there seems to be enjoyment over her suffering.

That is not even to speak of absolutely ridiculous stuff like the mastermind who sets up people who may overshadow her to go get corrupted by Kondo, how am I meant to take anything to do with that remotely.

But yeah sorry about that, I came across this a few months ago and I just could not get it out of my mind. I kept coming back to the comments of the chapters and reading yours have been the closest thing to reaching the light lmao.

Ultimately, this manga is a guilty pleasure at best. Certified slop

 

[Lex27]

I'll say it again: Miyuki is a child.

High schoolers are not children.

 

[AkuNaRahman]

NO FUCKING WAAAY... A TEACHER THAT CARE ABOUT BULLYING PROBLEM!?!?

ONLY ON FICTION, LOL

 

[Kagg50]

School that actually does something when their students’ getting bullied?
Woah

 

[Beatrice]

High schoolers are not children.

legally, they most definitely are in many countries.
personally, most adults consider those within the bracket of 13 - 17 as still kids. Hell, even 19 year olds can be considered children depending on who you ask. It is a matter of maturity and experience.

16 year olds are not considered fully functional adults in any capacity.

 

[Edway89]

Are you for real? I thought it was a month...goodness gracious.

Yes, the LN version has dates tagged on the events of the story.

 

[Knightxe4]

How long was Eiji being bullied for then?

If I remember right, and I think I do, the day Eiji went up to the roof, the day the manga is currently in, is the third day since high school started again. There was a little bullying on the first day, but it ramped up significantly on the second.

From here on out, Eiji really isn't bullied anymore and the story becomes about the response to that bullying.