Ichiban Tookute, Chikai Aitsu. ~Kimi ni Koi o Suru nante, Arienai Hazu Datta~ - Vol. 4 Ch. 30 - The North wind and The Sun

[MangaDex]

 

[jeremymd]

While I'm certain there would be plenty of people who complain about all the "misunderstanding" going on, I really have missed this type of trope. And besides, all of the misunderstandings happening are completely believable, none of them are contrived. And of course, both of their hesitations have foundation and are perfectly understandable. If they already were in a relationship, that'd be a different thing, but seeing that they both already have feelings for each other but are both afraid to get hurt or hurt each other, heck I'd be too. This is one of the scariest points in the progression of a relationship.

 

[UhhExi]

I'm going to trauma dump a little, cause I feel them both.

So.

I fell for this girl in my last year of highschool, really, really sweet and thoughtful girl,but she was just recently hurt by her first ever boyfriend, and we just happened to become close friends right after that.

I ended up liking her not too long after, and she was not in her best shape so she confused some of her feelings for me and we ended up in a situation that led to us keeping a distance for a while until we could act like normal friends.

Though, the feelings never left me, and she never stopped acting close to me, matter fact, she was weirdly close to me in a way that felt like how our FMC here is to our MC.


Kept leading me on in small, almost planned ways, and I just kept falling further for her. But, she had already rejected me before, why would I even try? Just to be hurt again?

Before meeting her, it just so happened that my first girlfriend dumped me too, but, it was a very different situation from her's and I got over it earlier and was emotionally ready to try something with someone again, and I felt for this girl so naturally and it was such a pure emotion that I could not pass a single day without thinking about how it'd be amazing if we got to spend our life's together... Not even lustful, just purely wanting to treasure her with my soul.

But, the longer the situation dragged on the more I started to just want it to end, it was hurting me, a lot.

It takes time to heal from rejections, more so to heal from something that always felt like it should've happened but never did.

Worst of all, when it finally came to an end, well... She finally said she "noticed" the way I act with her, that she was putting up with it, but... Why'd she say that the only day I actually wanted to just move on and finally just be her friend? To not let her feed me snacks to my mouth? To not let her grab my hand whenever she wants to go? To not be so close to her and just have a slight bit more of a distance with her?

It's weird. Why only that day? Why did she have to reason about it like "what will happen if I get a boyfriend and you're like this with me?".

To this day I do not understand, and I never got to properly tell her how I truly felt.

I heard all kinds of stuff, good and bad. She said some REALLY unique things to me and broke my shell, my shield I had put up against love, and I really fell for her for tons of reasons.

Yet, I can't really blame her or lash out, much less claim I was played, cause even though I describe it a little exaggerated, she never did anything wrong, you know...? But neither did I... So.

I guess some things just have to end, sometimes you just feel like it's over and you have to move on, they're better off without you.

You're better off without them.



This manga is one I really hope can get a happy ending.

Not one of them deserve what they're feeling, and it doesn't have to end like this.

Please talk things out. Please, just talk about it.

 

[jeremymd]

I'm going to trauma dump a little, cause I feel them both.

So.

I fell for this girl in my last year of highschool, really, really sweet and thoughtful girl,but she was just recently hurt by her first ever boyfriend, and we just happened to become close friends right after that.

I ended up liking her not too long after, and she was not in her best shape so she confused some of her feelings for me and we ended up in a situation that led to us keeping a distance for a while until we could act like normal friends.

Though, the feelings never left me, and she never stopped acting close to me, matter fact, she was weirdly close to me in a way that felt like how our FMC here is to our MC.


Kept leading me on in small, almost planned ways, and I just kept falling further for her. But, she had already rejected me before, why would I even try? Just to be hurt again?

Before meeting her, it just so happened that my first girlfriend dumped me too, but, it was a very different situation from her's and I got over it earlier and was emotionally ready to try something with someone again, and I felt for this girl so naturally and it was such a pure emotion that I could not pass a single day without thinking about how it'd be amazing if we got to spend our life's together... Not even lustful, just purely wanting to treasure her with my soul.

But, the longer the situation dragged on the more I started to just want it to end, it was hurting me, a lot.

It takes time to heal from rejections, more so to heal from something that always felt like it should've happened but never did.

Worst of all, when it finally came to an end, well... She finally said she "noticed" the way I act with her, that she was putting up with it, but... Why'd she say that the only day I actually wanted to just move on and finally just be her friend? To not let her feed me snacks to my mouth? To not let her grab my hand whenever she wants to go? To not be so close to her and just have a slight bit more of a distance with her?

It's weird. Why only that day? Why did she have to reason about it like "what will happen if I get a boyfriend and you're like this with me?".

To this day I do not understand, and I never got to properly tell her how I truly felt.

I heard all kinds of stuff, good and bad. She said some REALLY unique things to me and broke my shell, my shield I had put up against love, and I really fell for her for tons of reasons.

Yet, I can't really blame her or lash out, much less claim I was played, cause even though I describe it a little exaggerated, she never did anything wrong, you know...? But neither did I... So.

I guess some things just have to end, sometimes you just feel like it's over and you have to move on, they're better off without you.

You're better off without them.



This manga is one I really hope can get a happy ending.

Not one of them deserve what they're feeling, and it doesn't have to end like this.

Please talk things out. Please, just talk about it.

I feel for you, brother. Not gonna trauma dump but what happened to you has happened to me several times already. I'm not exactly young.

A lot of people say you get wiser as you get older. But in retrospect, the only reason why people get wiser is because the callouses of our hearts allow us to not get ahead of ourselves and actually think clearly about any situation. In other words, to be wise in love, one would usually need to have some level of "numbness" to its effects. It's a jaded view, but I could have handled literally all my previous situations a whole lot better and led things to happen in whatever situation was the best for everyone involved had I been as numb to feelings as I am now.

 

[BurnerAccount69]

While I'm certain there would be plenty of people who complain about all the "misunderstanding" going on, I really have missed this type of trope. And besides, all of the misunderstandings happening are completely believable, none of them are contrived. And of course, both of their hesitations have foundation and are perfectly understandable. If they already were in a relationship, that'd be a different thing, but seeing that they both already have feelings for each other but are both afraid to get hurt or hurt each other, heck I'd be too. This is one of the scariest points in the progression of a relationship.

Idk bad mouthing and not defending your friend against obvious false rumors for the "greater good" seems pretty contrived to me

 

[jeremymd]

Idk bad mouthing and not defending your friend against obvious false rumors for the "greater good" seems pretty contrived to me

If it's about both of Ijichi's friends(the girl and boy), I think they just heard the rumors and weren't actively in participation of those discussions. After all, they both aren't that sociable either. Can't imagine them being in the middle of a rumormongering session, so yeah, it's not contrived.

And if you notice, the author even carefully guided the reader so that we understand FMC's line of reasoning so we as the audience know that she's not just some b*tch who didn't care about Ijichi.

Obviously, your complaints are valid to a degree because it's the mangaka's task that his decisions be digestible to us as readers. But remember, we also have the responsibility to pick up on the cues being dropped by author. Otherwise, it would be disingenuous of us.

 

[BurnerAccount69]

If it's about both of Ijichi's friends(the girl and boy), I think they just heard the rumors and weren't actively in participation of those discussions. After all, they both aren't that sociable either. Can't imagine them being in the middle of a rumormongering session, so yeah, it's not contrived.

And if you notice, the author even carefully guided the reader so that we understand FMC's line of reasoning so we as the audience know that she's not just some b*tch who didn't care about Ijichi.

Obviously, your complaints are valid to a degree because it's the mangaka's task that his decisions be digestible to us as readers. But remember, we also have the responsibility to pick up on the cues being dropped by author. Otherwise, it would be disingenuous of us.

As I said previously "for the greater good" I know why she said it and the justifications the author was going for, but it doesn't change the fact that it's forced artificial conflict.

Not only that but as someone else pointed out they later resolve their issues not through character growth, but through contrived coincidence, they don't actually go through the effort or courage and take action themselves to seek each other

 

[FGRayz]

someone take him ? first he's never be yours second u push him girl come on

 

[jeremymd]

As I said previously "for the greater good" I know why she said it and the justifications the author was going for, but it doesn't change the fact that it's forced artificial conflict.

Not only that but as someone else pointed out they later resolve their issues not through character growth, but through contrived coincidence, they don't actually go through the effort or courage and take action themselves to seek each other

Forced artificial conflict, at least to me, means something is very VERY unlikely to happen unless author forces it to happen. Up to the event when Iijichi overheard Kataoka, I don't think anything was forced there at all. He had a good reason to be by that door, he was waiting for Kataoka to go outside so he could give the jacket back to her. Just barging in on a conversation behind closed doors isn't just something someone like him would do.

For me, yeah, the most contrived event has to be when he rationalized the hell out of all the events that happened between them in the past, ESPECIALLY the bear scene. BUT, at least to me, the entire rationalization event can also be rationalized as.... don't we all try to make our own rationalizations to the point that we even delude ourselves into doing something that really isn't like us, but because we really want to, we end up doing it anyways. The logic of Eiji's deductions there, however unsound they may be, didn't seem to be important to me at all. He was trying to find a reason to turn back and confess knowing if he didn't, he knew they would never meet again. That can be overwhelmingly empowering.

 

[BurnerAccount69]

Forced artificial conflict, at least to me, means something is very VERY unlikely to happen unless author forces it to happen. Up to the event when Iijichi overheard Kataoka, I don't think anything was forced there at all. He had a good reason to be by that door, he was waiting for Kataoka to go outside so he could give the jacket back to her. Just barging in on a conversation behind closed doors isn't just something someone like him would do.

For me, yeah, the most contrived event has to be when he rationalized the hell out of all the events that happened between them in the past, ESPECIALLY the bear scene. BUT, at least to me, the entire rationalization event can also be rationalized as.... don't we all try to make our own rationalizations to the point that we even delude ourselves into doing something that really isn't like us, but because we really want to, we end up doing it anyways. The logic of Eiji's deductions there, however unsound they may be, didn't seem to be important to me at all. He was trying to find a reason to turn back and confess knowing if he didn't, he knew they would never meet again. That can be overwhelmingly empowering.

In your own interpretation sure, however irl doesn't usually work like that. I'm not criticizing him coincidentally hearing their conversation, I'm criticizing her switching up on him for the "greater good" a normal friend would instantly deny serious allegations against you, but ofc we can't have that because then there wouldn't be any drama for the plot.

Yes both him making excuses, rationalizations, and them running into each other in town was contrived asl especially since it wasn't through their own effort.

 

[jeremymd]

In your own interpretation sure, however irl doesn't usually work like that. I'm not criticizing him coincidentally hearing their conversation, I'm criticizing her switching up on him for the "greater good" a normal friend would instantly deny serious allegations against you, but ofc we can't have that because then there wouldn't be any drama for the plot.

Yes both him making excuses, rationalizations, and them running into each other in town was contrived asl especially since it wasn't through their own effort.

I'm not sure about this "greater good" you keep going back to. Because in my interpretation, despite Kataoka's denial and failure to defend Iijichi possibly being interpreted as preserving the status quo, it's ultimately something selfish because she COULD have defended Iijichi. Remember that it was a discussion among her friends and no one else, and she could have easily handled whatever jeers her own friends would have thrown at her. Zero doubt she would have done that if she knew Iijichi was listening, but she went the denial route because it's so much easier for her.

In other words, her choice to deny the rumors is not "forced" at all because BOTH choices are perfectly logical to make considering the situation. You can instead say you disagree with the author's choice that he made Kitaoka deny the rumors. But that's a far cry from contrivance because, again, either decision was feasible.

Also, the "through their own effort" you've mentioned twice doesn't really resonate with me. All the while, the tension that was building up was ENTIRELY because of the lack of communication they had, which mangaka has successfully justified in my eyes at least. All that was needed was ONE of them to actually find the resolve and start the conversation again. That's it, that's the only "effort" that needs to be made, and as readers, we already know that once any of the two crosses that boiling threshold and takes that first step, it was bound to be explosive, which is what happened in the end. The buildup is a Jenga tower. All the effort has already been made through their conversations and thoughts. Just one push was needed.

BUT. I guess if you mean "effort" as you wanted more events between them, like more "blocks" being put on the jenga tower, I could agree with you there.

 

[BurnerAccount69]

I'm not sure about this "greater good" you keep going back to. Because in my interpretation, despite Kataoka's denial and failure to defend Iijichi possibly being interpreted as preserving the status quo, it's ultimately something selfish because she COULD have defended Iijichi. Remember that it was a discussion among her friends and no one else, and she could have easily handled whatever jeers her own friends would have thrown at her. Zero doubt she would have done that if she knew Iijichi was listening, but she went the denial route because it's so much easier for her.

In other words, her choice to deny the rumors is not "forced" at all because BOTH choices are perfectly logical to make considering the situation. You can instead say you disagree with the author's choice that he made Kitaoka deny the rumors. But that's a far cry from contrivance because, again, either decision was feasible.

Also, the "through their own effort" you've mentioned twice doesn't really resonate with me. All the while, the tension that was building up was ENTIRELY because of the lack of communication they had, which mangaka has successfully justified in my eyes at least. All that was needed was ONE of them to actually find the resolve and start the conversation again. That's it, that's the only "effort" that needs to be made, and as readers, we already know that once any of the two crosses that boiling threshold and takes that first step, it was bound to be explosive, which is what happened in the end. The buildup is a Jenga tower. All the effort has already been made through their conversations and thoughts. Just one push was needed.

BUT. I guess if you mean "effort" as you wanted more events between them, like more "blocks" being put on the jenga tower, I could agree with you there.

No they literally never made actual effort to seek each other, even when all the side characters were doing the work for them laying the groundwork for them they STILL didn't act upon it completely wasting there efforts as well. it was only through complete coincidence of running into each other in town that they finally talked it out, if not for that single event they literally would have NEVER repaired their relationship. And then the whole bullshit with mc claiming "well actually i knew the whole time you didn't mean what you said, and i only JUST realized now that you liked me but author san wanted me to reveal this crucial information and make me realize you had feelings for me months later on the day I'm about to leave for unnatural dramatic effect"

 

[jeremymd]

Okay, I think I get you. If you were frustrated about the main characters not doing the "work" and the side characters "laying the groundwork" for them, let's say the main characters did act early. Say in the very first opportunity, one of them communicated and straightened out the tension. If that's case, the issue would have already been solved, and this entire thing would be another milksoppy slice of life romcom, where they slowly developed their relationship while a series of mundane events and characters came into play with barely any tension. I have NO ISSUE with those kinds of stories. My Dress Up Darling is one of the greats and it pretty much used that format with the backdrop of cosplay. But clearly, clearly, that was never the theme of this series. From the very first chapters, you already know that the entire theme would be the tension between two people who are diametrically opposite, like Dress Up Darling, but the main difference is that neither of the main characters here have the Marin personality who absolutely doesn't care about other people's opinions. So from that point, you should already know, this won't be slice of life comfy romcom.

Of course, you can argue that you're not saying that the tension would need to be resolved after the very first conflict. In that case, how many events would be needed to satisfy your craving of tension? Clearly, the answer would be subjective. I guess it's the reader's management of expectations that comes into play. It is the "responsibility" of the reader to kind of have an early feel of what the story is going to be and then make a decision at a certain point: do you like it enough to keep reading or do you just drop it.

 

[BurnerAccount69]

Okay, I think I get you. If you were frustrated about the main characters not doing the "work" and the side characters "laying the groundwork" for them, let's say the main characters did act early. Say in the very first opportunity, one of them communicated and straightened out the tension. If that's case, the issue would have already been solved, and this entire thing would be another milksoppy slice of life romcom, where they slowly developed their relationship while a series of mundane events and characters came into play with barely any tension. I have NO ISSUE with those kinds of stories. My Dress Up Darling is one of the greats and it pretty much used that format with the backdrop of cosplay. But clearly, clearly, that was never the theme of this series. From the very first chapters, you already know that the entire theme would be the tension between two people who are diametrically opposite, like Dress Up Darling, but the main difference is that neither of the main characters here have the Marin personality who absolutely doesn't care about other people's opinions. So from that point, you should already know, this won't be slice of life comfy romcom.

Of course, you can argue that you're not saying that the tension would need to be resolved after the very first conflict. In that case, how many events would be needed to satisfy your craving of tension? Clearly, the answer would be subjective. I guess it's the reader's management of expectations that comes into play. It is the "responsibility" of the reader to kind of have an early feel of what the story is going to be and then make a decision at a certain point: do you like it enough to keep reading or do you just drop it.

I should've guessed this was your view, I mean you did say that in your first comment. Cause it sounds more like you enjoy the very obtuse and roundabout story telling the author forced, and you don't seem to be a fan of wholesome rom com moments. And no, the first 20 chapters was absolutely nothing like the last 20 chapters.

 

[jeremymd]

I should've guessed this was your view, I mean you did say that in your first comment. Cause it sounds more like you enjoy the very obtuse and roundabout story telling the author forced, and you don't seem to be a fan of wholesome rom com moments. And no, the first 20 chapters was absolutely nothing like the last 20 chapters.

I try to enjoy ANYTHING that is enjoyable (up to a point of course). I mean, it's the easiest thing to find fault and complain about anything since nothing is perfect, but unless I'm a student trying to up my skills in the craft, that kind of approach gets me nothing. Just thinking about doing that is depressing. So yeah, I view the transaction between the art creator(mangaka) and the consumer(me) as something that's supposed to be cooperative. It's a normal thing to expect him to carry the entire weight for the transaction to be a positive one, but for me, I want to carry a part of that burden. Because, and this is just me, I want to spend more time enjoying stuff rather than finding fault in them. But again, only up to a point. There are a lot of "Rent A Girlfriends" out there.

 

[ireadmangasforfun23]

I'm like serves her right ngl, she didn't even tried to contact or approach him even though she knew that it's a misunderstanding, she just kept on waiting..