Exorcist o Otosenai

[67User67]

guy above me should probably take a few weeks off

yea... fuck that guy

story made me think about viewer trust, said one thing did the other (like "Bugle"), set a theme of lying, ruins anything forward ("character is not omniscient" is good "lying", CSM, Steins;gate, Watchmen, but this isn't a mystery being discovered, it's the viewer being lied to, for some (possibly no) reason)
There's more to it, but it's fun to think about

This story... ruined itself, which I don't think I've ever seen a story do SO late (4 years/111 chapters later), for no reason (I want to know why ch111 was done, and it can be answered by ending), like he loves essentially a cheater, a liar, says one thing, does the other, and only admitted once caught, which the story essentially has to prop up as THE love interest, it's guaranteed to become worse, which is interesting, if it somehow redeems her, it could be a HUGE win, in that sense it'd become one of my favourite stories, even then, retcon to fix retcon, is not good writing
(I care deeply for stories, goes both ways, love and hate, I also deeply loathe liars, selfishness)

I write so I can sift my thoughts, also trying to payback all the comments I've read over the years, I've learnt a lot from others, broken clock's right twice a day... or once if it's a 24 hour one
E: and, forgot to mention, fmc and Asmodeus were good contrasts, now, not really (this was the entire point of school part, entire juxtaposition just washed away)

 

[67User67]

ch117

("What held it all together was... friendship." Last page ch117)

Spoiler: Edit, and yea spoilers and such

Want to add, with ch111

Does it "matter"? No.
Does she care enough to not talk about it, avoid it, lie about it, and hate bringing it up? Yes.
How does this make any sense? Literal retard writing.
(Why would an immortal sex demon feel shame about sex? Is there any reason? If it's trying to empower women, does it not ruin itself, that, even an immortal sex demon is ashamed of sex? Again, I don't understand any of it, maybe because there is no reason, it's just shit writing)

(Rant, it's the general issue of modern "empowerment", is that it's degrading, I did believe at one point that a woman (or a man) that has a lot of sex is/could be "empowered", but, it feels shameful, like crying in public, sex becoming a public, not private thing, is degrading, and will always be shameful because the odds of being rejected will always be higher, sure, if everyone accepted sex, it may be nicer, but then you run into the issue of "nothing feels special", you can look online, many people either having multiple long relationships (love), or having a lot of sex (lust), the general issue is they've conditioned themselves to it, it is not special, what's strange is marriage gets propped up, to be special, even nowadays, but sex is reduced to not being special, like people who will have sex but won't kiss, is it not backwards? and, pushing it into public is forcing others to accept you, that isn't reality, no one wants to be forced, and not everyone will accept you, what is special, is finding someone you don't have to force to accept you entirely (someone to wipe your tears), usually, family would take this role, is love not for family? I'm not against a lot of sex, because it's just sex or whatever, I'm against it because it worsens people, if you rely on sex for a good life, that's an issue, and like I've read and said before, it's a caveman mindset, "Idiocracy" 2006)
(and I hate that radical acceptance is the "answer" to radical rejection, it's retarded binary thinking)
(shame heightens dignity, be ashamed, someone who blushes is hot, that's all (a real person, not a lying whore demon, realistically fmc blushing was her being performative, garbage))
(Oh yea, and fmc basically forces mmc into accepting her, lying, leading on, guilt-tripping, accusing, etc, is not how good relationships form, this story does "written bad" well, you can learn at lot from it, it's why I'm so intrigued by it, like, I've never seen someone guilt-trip someone after having sex WITH them, complete first for me, espcially in like a rom-com, "I love you so much" story, just keeps surprising me (reading back, "The one thing it does well is it's "written bad" thing" is such a funny line)(If there was a writing guide and it said "don't accuse of cheating before sex, and guilt-trip after sex" I can't imagine anyone, not drooling over the paper, would go "Oh, really?"))

and, the author knows this, either subconsciously or is actively retarded, in that, real, empowerment is leading your partner on to make sure they're the non-confrontational type, so you don't have to harbour any accountability when your past, that, you don't care about (it doesn't matter), but do (it does matter), is surfaced
(obviously)


You can do redemption well, but flaws have to be established first, if, this story was her feeling deep regret the entire time, of a "dark past" (as a sex demon, viewer can fill in the blanks, also, the reveal has tension behind it, and the viewer isn't lied to, they know, there's a reveal coming, like CSM's "door" with Denji/Asa), and never finding forgiveness, as demons like her would never feel regret, nor, as such, would ever forgive, for her hoping to find one that doesn't push her regret away at pretense of, you know "book cover" (sex demon, which, this story just made true of, yea, sex demon is lying whore), she'd maybe be able to transform from regretul whore demon, into forgiven loving angel, I'm not even a writer, this shit is like, basic as FUCK, I cannot stress this enough
(I guess that's a good lesson, fmc hiding this from mmc ruins the odds of him forgiving, realistically, someone who hides something from you, you'd feel less in favour of forgiving, also the basic lesson of "don't lie" to start relationships, funnily enough this story does just that (In an odd way, yea, "reasonable lying" that you have to lie so they don't judge the book by the cover, but, ch111 just proves it was right to, so, what was the point? is he actually still in love with a lying whore murderer demon? there's other fish in the sea dude, like what about a priestess? church mixer lmao))
(A regret/forgiveness message would be amazing, and it does line this up in him knowing her past, better than anyone else, but I don't think/have any hope this story can write it well, how far "church bad" is taken, is being forgiven bad? is God's love bad? Joshua Graham is a very cool character, even if you're not religious, you can easily see him as delusional, but this story has such shallow/uncaring characters, none of them stuck with me)

Saint Augustine: "It was pride that changed angels into devils; it is humility that makes men as angels.", you already see this with Lucifer, maybe, mmc is going to turn into an angel or whatever, but again, what flaws are his? What can he regret that is purely his own actions? Oh actually, if he realises he was wrong to fall in love, that'd be amazing, a duty vs love thing, sacrifice love for the world, that'd be good
(like baba, her past, she couldn't do anything, she is flawless, irredeemable, boring)
(with that quote, it works with shame, someone who is very shameful, implies they're self-aware, which is good trait to have, as regret can only come from awareness, you can only act on what you know, and you can only be forgiven by expressing regret)
Unaccountability and non-confrontational characters are pure shit, and you get both of them as the main characters


Also the story is literally going in the "friends we made along the way" route, so I imagine it will only get worse, probably with a everyone smiling end, maybe the mc's get married or something stupid, glossing over the fact she's immortal and he isn't, or it asspulls him into being immortal, like it asspulled ch117 dream stuff, we know the dream is a temporary thing, how does it "fix" anything? It's just being stupid
(Or it literally pulls a "friendship powers combined", god, would be funny though)
(Sure, "this was foreshadowed" with his heart, snails, and dream "world end" thing (Is this THE snail in heart detail? or was it actually already shown that it's Sloth cares for mmc, and that was it... if so, lame), but alluding to Sloth's power would've been a better reveal, we already know what it can do, this isn't anything new, it's not like JJK's reveals of "oh shit" it's "ok, so?")
(Has mmc already forgiven fmc? he knows she's a demon, so is he gonna bring up her whoring and killing people?, I do hope it ends with her dead)

 

[frankiefrancois]

I made an acocunt just to respond to these comments because they are hurting my head and I don't want any new readers/commenters to have such a bad faith interpretation of the manga as their initial exposure to the fandom.

Intro: YES this manga has lot's of writing mistakes and inconsistencies. I am NOT denying that, nor will I be focusing on pointing out my personal gripes with the manga (for now). This comment is mostly just a general defense/response to that one guys comments.

my biggest gripe was in ch100
when she doubts him before having sex (about why he has condoms), people said it's their first time so it'll be awkward, but doubting/accusing of cheating before sex? complete 180, like no intimacy at all, proper intimate sex you should feel embarrassed/misplaced seeing it (as it doesn't involve you), like Tokyo Ghoul:re ch 125 (not really a fan of that story, but that chapter was a great sex scene example, not raunchy fluids flying everywhere), there's a bunch of buzzwords I could throw like intimacy, compassion, comfort, safety, warmth, romance, love, etc, I feel like none of those were hit in ch100, pleasure sure, and "don't stare"? nothing screams being comfortable with the person you love most like asking not to look at you, really makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside... it feels empty (admittedly I think the don't stare comment is supposed to be a "guys can't get enough of me" move, probably written by a woman, makes sense though, reverse roles and a woman's staring at you, it'd make you feel proud, but, in a sex scene? prioritising pride in the most vulnerable act? no sense, there's a place and a time people)

The "accusing of cheating" is just a joke/gag. Idk why you took that so seriously. It's obvious it was just to break the tension. She knows the maids, they're all her friends and she's aware of how her friends are. She probably was expecting one of them to play a kind of "trick" on them. Also the so called "accusation" is directly followed up by an invitation to have sex. It was NOT meant to BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY!!!!

Idk what you mean by "proper intimate sex" but like... both these characters are like teenagers. Admitedly one is an experienced century old succubus, but the other is... you know.... a sexually repressed pastors boy. Idk why you are comparing a new couples first sexual experience to the most idealized possible way to have sex.

I also do not know what you are on about the "don't stare" scene and the "guys can't get enough of me" comment. I think you are projecting on what like the "ideal sex scene" is, when in reality its two teens (Imuri self admits her maturity is eternally late teen-aged) having sex for the first time. The "you're staring too much" comment is her being embarrased. YES IMURI IS A SUCCUBUS WHO HAS HAD SEX MULTIPLE TIMES THROUGHOUT HISTORY. SHE'S ALSO ALLOWED TO BE EMBARRASED. You can be an experienced an established chef who has cooked in several well renowned restaurants and still be nervous to serve the queen of britain. You can be someone who has driven daily for multiple years and still be nervous of crashing on the interstate. It is implied this is the first time (or one of the only times) Imuri actually RESPECTS and LOVES the person who she's going to be intimate with. This isn't just another mission given to her by Satan (although initially). Of course she's treating this as a "new" and "nerve-racking" experience. It's not "prioritising pride" its just being awkard teens. Also like you seem to be going back and forth on some demon morals I think you personally established that the manga hasn't. In one moment, you aren't allowing demon Imuri to joke about cheating, but in the other its blasphemy if a demon is embarrased about having sex. Also she isn't embarrassed about having sex, she's embarrassed that Baba Yaga put them into a situation where her past self was having sex RIGHT INFRONT OF HER PARTNER. Whole thing, in 24K.

"You were born with no magical power, which means the exorcist won't find out."-ch100, pg15, she has wings in the mirror, so this would seem like her getting power ("finally")(and that she has capacity, can be seen as demonic, her demonic magic can be now be detected, literally seen)
-ch38, pg18, she doesn't have wings, but asmodeus does, what the fuck, neither are in a sexual encounter so no this isn't a "wings show during sex" thing, they should be apparent (to viewer) if they have them, as asmodeus' are (ch1 clarifies asmodeus is powerful enough to perfectly hide it, why she isn't detected around ch38 by him, but is "detected" seen in the mirror by us, viewers)

Imuri is the ONLY succubus born without powers. Stop comparing her capabilities and abilities to the stndard succubus, it has been ESTABLISHED she seems to be the ONE and ONLY exception. Also, I'm pretty sure that's a painting, not a mirror (unless there's a ss to prove it otherwise). I mean, if it is a mirror, why would the wings only show up in the mirror and not be seen/aknowledged by the priest. He hasn't ever seen her with wings I feel like that would've been brought up. There has not been a single scene where Imuri has wings, besides ARTISTIC FRAMING of her being drawn in front of a painting with wings.

-ch111, It's also just shock value, she never mentioned her past (which, with the past chapters in mind, there'd be no reason to, she's not hiding anything, anymore, as she's revealed she's a demon), but apparently now the past is worth mentioning (maybe because the sense of "reveal" went away, he knows she's a demon, uh okay, what else can we reveal, she had sex, uh... huh?)
Why does she act so shy? She doesn't value her chastity, why is she upset when he dislikes her promiscuity? ch112, it doesn't make sense, every sexual moment as far as I can recall she was shy, but in the past she isn't?
Actually, thinking about it, her shyness, timidity, whatever, is also probably another retcon, before ch101, she was legitimately shy, but after that it's some weird form of shyness that doesn't make sense
It's also with a single guy, not many, which is strange, what's the truth? Can she even recall every man she's slept with? Is it a "minimal" damage reveal of "Oh, 1 guy, and he's not a bad guy", like that makes it better? She used sex, her sex is deprived of intimacy the main guy thought existed, that's the issue, it's also uncovering sides to her the viewer and main guy never knew existed, which breaks the trust of the viewer, this flashback could've come way earlier, like beginning of ch10

Once the priest finds out Imuri is a demon that worked for Satan, I'm pretty sure he pieced it together himself that she did bad things/has had sex before. Imuri can still be embarrased..? Idk why you keep harping on her being shy. It's not a retcon..? Her and the priest relationship has changed from her trying to charm him purposefully for a mission, to them being in an actual developed relationship. She doesn't have to put an act for him anymore (well, as much, she's still hiding stuff from him and the readers for sure). Imuri respects the priest as her partner (her HUMAN partner with HUMAN standards). If her partner was a demon, demon culture obviouslt wouldn't care for things like chastity and purity, but, mind you, like, it's in the name, she's with Mr. PRIEST. P-R-I-E-S-T. He grew up culturaly Christian, he's still going to be kind of prejudiced about it, and it impacts Imuri because she respects her partners opinion about her. You can grow up eating with your hands (South Asians, Middle East, African regions) and still be aware of ettiqutte of other nations. I know plenty of stories of people being shamed about eating with their hands and being embarrased to do so in public despite being habitually RAISED to do so.

Btw, it's like also just a running gag that Baba Yaga keeps showing her having sex even though it isn't necessary. Lighten up man.

That being said, I'm just going to quote the wiki on this

Imuri's feelings on herself are similarly contradictory. Imuri is at once self-loathing and self-centered. Imuri, for years, has been desperate to be the object of unwavering love out of a belief that it could change every part of her. Imuri hates herself for all the lives she's ruined, and she sees this idealized "fairytale romance" as the one way to be redeemed. Nevertheless, to get to that romance, Imuri is chillingly undisturbed at indirectly sacrificing innocent people. After all, her relationship with Josh was orchestrated by Satan to enable worldwide disaster. Imuri, as Satan's agent, has indirectly killed many people over the course of history, and she is willing to continue doing this if it means being with Josh. That is to say, Imuri desperately wants to be changed, but she lacks the willingness to change herself.
Imuri is riddled with guilt for all the lives she's ruined. Imuri is traumatized over being discovered by one of her past targets, presumably having grown to fall in love with him. She is likewise distraught at watching Golem sacrifice himself for her sake. However, this guilt is seemingly exclusively targeted at those she's directly hurt; she is noticeably unbothered with acting as an accomplice to Satan's crimes. For instance, when she recounting how she targeted Angelo, Imuri is very casual about the fact that she knowingly enabled the era's corrupt Pope, meaning that she is indirectly responsible for everything he did. It doesn't even occur to Imuri that Josh is horrified at this, instead assuming he's mainly upset over her having sex with Angelo.

Tl;dr Imuri is a demon who wants to change. She cares for beings she herself is emotionally invested with, but is more flippant about those who are not. Basically the average pridefull, self-motivated demon.
Gosh, a complex character being complex. Go figure.

Ch111 removes the sense of accomplishment by showing her not shy, using sex, and having loveless sex
It's done in a humorous way, he says "There's clues here!, I have to know", to then her moaning (Gross, childish even)
What remains?... name reveal, who, cares, subversion of virgin succubus is also gone, just a powerless demon, holy lame balls, not being a virgin had no reason to be beaten around, just tell the viewer, not 111 chapters in
Could've had an immensely romantic message of "sex is not the goal but the culmination of intimacy", and instead of ch100 sex they cuddle to sleep, instead, I think the message is fight the patriachy or something

You being personally sex repulsed is not a valid criticism, but that seems to be the underlying animosity beneath half of the critiques. Also I feel as though we as readers should've known Imuri was never a virgin..? And that she may have lied about being a virgin..? To get on Mr. Priest's good side..? because you know... it was originally a mission given to her by Satan..? she was trying to get it done by any means..? why wouldn't she lie there...? that wouldn't be so beneficial to the mission now would it. Also like, yeah sure it would've been such sunshine an rainbows if they just cuddled instead of having sex, but that just isn't what the story was heading for. Dante from the first chapter was telling Mr. Priest to rub one out every now and then, and to free himself from the sexual repression the church imposed upon the priest. The sex repulsion gas leak is coming out again.

like he loves essentially a cheater, a liar, says one thing, does the other, and only admitted once caught, which the story essentially has to prop up as THE love interest, it's guaranteed to become worse, which is interesting, if it somehow redeems her, it could be a HUGE win, in that sense it'd become one of my favourite stories, even then, retcon to fix retcon, is not good writing
(I care deeply for stories, goes both ways, love and hate, I also deeply loathe liars, selfishness)

It's almost as if the story is about a priest falling in love with a demon who's existence stands against everything he's believed in prior. Imuri is DEEPLY flawed, being a demon and all, who never got an oppurtunity to learn from her mistakes due to the sole fact that she literally never faced consequences before any of this. All she had to do after her missions was to leave and wait it out, and anyone who was affected who survived died eventually, or died of old age. Mr. Priest also stands against everything she stood for. It's almost like its a priest dating a demon... who woudl've known... Only going through those 2-3 comments because this is already a long enough comment.

 

[67User67]

Spoiler: 1

"accusing of cheating" is just a joke
obvious it was just to break tension
She knows maids, they're all her friends and she's aware of how her friends are
"accusation" is followed up by an invitation to have sex
NOT meant to BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY

Well yea, for aiming to be a ch100 special moment, it's treated like a joke, you said it yourself, tension is broken, probably because story is insecure whether viewer would be invested enough to care, or it might come off awkward, it's coward writing
I want to care, I could not

No, I don't think she was joking, she's been shown to be insecure of mmc like in school part, maids know of her, because she's famous like Asmodeus, does she know of them? For sure?
Nobody wants to be invited after being accused, that's toxic, not healthy
(If he had self-respect, he'd want an apology, not go along with anything she says, just because he likes her)

Not to be taken seriously, not sure anyone did with ch100, it was quite lame

Spoiler: 2

what you mean by "proper intimate sex"
both these characters are like teenagers
one is an experienced century old, but other is a sexually repressed
why you are comparing a new couples first sexual experience to the most idealized possible way to have sex

Passion, it wasn't intimate, they wake up not touching each other, like touching each other is a "gross, do I have to?" (like children), where's spooning, cuddling, caressing, kissing neck, wrapping arms around each other, stroking their back, looking into eyes without worry, urge for skin to skin
There's notably no lines during it, probably because author is either clueless, or a coward on writing intimate sex, a "You're cute" "I love your touch" "Relax for me" nothing "has" to be said, but "You're staring too much" is?
(Not critiquing what's there, but what isn't, if you read other stories you'll realise how shit this one is (I mean obviously, if this is your only manga, you'd think it's amazing))
Their "pillow talk" is guilt-tripping, usually, this is one of the most intimate moments of life, instead, shame, oh joy

There is no "I am at peace with them", there's always some dumb anxious tension
(Feels like author was just doing what they've seen before, not that they know why it's done, similar to wiping tears in school part, just brushed over, ch100 they close their eyes and hold hands, does the author know why? "cause feel good" is likely the answer, given how sex is treated)

You said it yourself, he's young, and she's immortal, he's literally groomed
(Peak romance? immortal sex demon grooming traumatised prude?)
Good point, a whore wouldn't know how to have intimate sex
Your last point, no, not her first, she probably knows more than any human, and "Tokyo Ghoul:re" ch125 is great, this is a story, most idealised can be shown, it may have tried, but it failed if so

Spoiler: 3

do not know "don't stare" scene and "guys can't get enough of me" comment
when in reality its two teens (Imuri self admits her maturity is eternally late teen-aged) having sex for the first time
The "you're staring too much" comment is her being embarrased
HAS HAD SEX MULTIPLE TIMES THROUGHOUT HISTORY
ALLOWED TO BE EMBARRASED
It is implied this is the first time actually RESPECTS and LOVES the person who she's going to be intimate with
Of course she's treating this as a "new" and "nerve-racking" experience
It's not "prioritising pride" its just being awkard teens
She isn't embarrassed about having sex, she's embarrassed that Baba put them into a situation where her past self was having sex INFRONT OF HER PARTNER

"don't stare" selfishly fulfills self-worth by being desired, it's not teasing, he's put down to put her up, not played with
(Can't "make" you get that, jingle a toy for a cat, but never let it win, at some point it turns from playing to cruel, fun to selfish)
(Not a "I'm shy" but a "can't get enough of me", you can tease staring, not, tell them not to (like they're some stranger), a "You can blink" or "Not too much" is funny, suitable, and you're accepting of them, but gives awareness to their staring, she essentially tells him to stop, treats him worse than when she was whoring, she uses his care to ego boost, she's working against him, not with him, it's like that meme of the degredation kink "it sounded like you meant it", not teasing, shaming)

(Edit: It's what I mean by "girlboss" chapter, it's complete ego boosting, has sex with sexy woman, has sex with sexy man (she is his only client, "exclusive", and they both enjoy each other... but only for one page, as that's, more tolerable? forget she woke up on top of him, which she didn't do ch100, it's literally more intimate than the "intimate" chapter, ch100 is beyond worthless, why, is this story pissing on itself?), where does she "lose"? (no seriously, has she ever "faced consequences"?) and, the man is likely solely inserted so she's "not a virgin" even though she had sex with Baba, it's such a "is this really the story?" chapter, the author clearly sees sex as "winning" in life, probably explains ch100, it's a "win", at no expense of the fmc, author is likely a woman, and fmc is avoidant of accountability, very womanly written, and sexy masculine man is probably a "real man" insert so fmc can have "doormat" and "real man", of course also a jealousy story point for mmc, "Oh jeez, a manlier man is boning my girl!" (move on dude(Just hit me, no woman would want that, so of course he won't, eat cake and have it too)), it's such a common woman author theme, but, it's just ridiculous, "insert sexy exclusive man, bone fmc, die, no records of him", what is this writing? I've never, literally never, seen something so bad, how can you care? fmc turns into a lying whore, that was only honest when she couldn't keep the lie going, and she avoids this, who can we care for? mmc is bland, fmc is awful, sexy man is an oc, baba is some random ex? they're all retards, how am I supposed to care? at least "Berserk" had depth to all three, it wasn't some random retard oc boning Casca, it was a very important character(Here's my oc guys, he's super hot, and really good at sex, he has sex with fmc, but no one knew about him, because Satan hid him (like wtf)) my money's still on Asmodeus and mmc getting together, let's redo the school part, but with ch111 in mind)
(Econtinued: Notice this story sort of, uses the first instance of themes as impactful, then once it's "done" it can't manage them? Like ch100 was sex, so ch111 felt free to show as much sex as it wanted, it's probably why it wasn't shown earlier, because it couldn't show, "that", before ch100's sex, and the rape in the beginning is shown, so then later it just throws it in (during the week of apocalypse or whatever), and the mentor's ex kissed in front of him, so then Baba does the same, but it's not surprising, cause you know, we know this story is going to be petty, we're conditioned to just how boring this story is, oh wow, mmc didn't die to Baba, almost as if, no one dies, bring in the jobber villains, "grr I hate women" (seriously what man is gonna write about misogyny) Greed guy, and "envy isn't actually bad" (woman author) leviathan, I'm sure mentor will be back, he'll get back with his ex, even though they fought (whatever, we already know the story's shit), and mmc will marry fmc or something, Satan will be in love, and that's the whole "love is greatest sin", cause satan was in love, and he's like, super evil, but redeemable, we just haven't got his flashback yet(This story if it was planned, was done poorly, there needed to be proper tension, care, you actually can, show sex, and it still mean something, I know (Strange, story has like internalised super-virgin mindset, but is anti-virgin)))

"eternal late teen-aged"... yea "looks like a child, but is 500 years old (so sex is ok)", either that's the intended writing, or she's poorly written as an immortal, either way, it's bad

"Normalisation of deviance", conditioning, desensitising
You can still be nervous, but if you have experience, you will be less nervous than if you don't, she acts far too "shy" for an immortal lying whore
("oh jeez... s-s-sex!?" says the sex demon, previously whoring in a whorehouse)
(No, it's not "two late teens have sex for first time")

You agree she lied ch3, to then reveal ch111
"new", said it yourself, this isn't new to her
Could be said she's shy because she cares so much, but, she's still lying to him as they have sex, she hasn't come clean entirely, he didn't know how old she was, her past, etc
ch111's "realisations" of "she's a demon, she's probably killed people", is retarded because there was a timeskip with him knowing this, but it's also a good point that she really, didn't care that much for him to come clean, she's still, leading him on, shyness would be she feels ashamed, and it did work before ch111, but not with her past, it isn't only "she's probably had countless sex", but also "she was lying to him the entire time", a shy liar? she cares "so much"... but not that much, ch111 degraded ch100's shyness from genuine, to performative
(Complete forgiveness can only be given with complete honesty)
(though, we know doormat mmc is probably just gonna accept the person who lied to him until they couldn't with open arms)

Sex's meaning varies purely by belief, it can mean nothing, or a lot, ch100 had both hold it highly, ch111 corrects that she doesn't, she "cheated" his worth, it went from something mutual and special, to something one-sided and subsequently worthless, just another day at the office for her
(In real life, some people you can never be with, you will lose them forever, so the answer to that in this story is to... lie, lead on, manipulate, it's wildly immature, if he saw ch111 from ch1 he would not accept her, so, how do you "make" him accept it? make him care so much it'd hurt him, he's too far in, it's easier to accept it, like blackmail)
(None of his acceptance has been with complete agency, always been reactions, not actions, she's a demon? react, she wants sex? react, she lied? react, when is he given a moment to think for himself? if he was, his acceptance would have to be contrived, or he'd be a moron, him doubting himself would be good, maybe he'd develop regret, actually have depth)

Accusing of cheating is hypocritical for a whoring sex demon, "don't have sex with others and lie about it", as if fmc hasn't, won't
(Without him, she will, without a doubt, have sex with others, she only has sex for fun or to use it, nothing more, ch111 proves this, it is not special to her, no matter how special it is to him)

A widow/widower would feel no shame, what's there to feel shame of? It's love, but for her, it wasn't
Love doesn't value public viewing, if anything two loving people is respectful, a "good, they're good people", not just using each other, a "Good, but I shouldn't be seeing this, it isn't for me", that wasn't ch111, that was "Gross, I don't want to see this"
When has a parent hugging their child been shameful?

Spoiler: 4

ONLY without powers
pretty sure that's a painting, not a mirror
if it is a mirror, why would the wings only show up in the mirror and not be seen/aknowledged by the priest
not been a single scene has wings, besides ARTISTIC FRAMING of her being drawn in front of a painting

Throughout ch100 that "painting" is blank, pg17 shows wings (when fmc is directly opposite of it), sure, maybe the artist was just lazy, but I feel the artist expected her powers to awaken, given, she "never" had sex until that moment
(I'm not sure why he'd say nothing, I think the artist and author thought different, artist thought she would awaken, author not)

Absolutely, artist was careful to not draw wings on fmc until ch100, school part with Asmodeus is proof, ch38
Not sure what you mean by powers, I mean, it'd be more interesting if she had latent powers, as, ch3 she says she's a virgin, and tells Satan she's waiting for "the one" or whatever, if she did gain powers in ch100, it'd make sense, but again, like the Lucifer part, seems to be taking the boring route, hard to imagine a story with powers less interesting than one without, some stories purely center around powers
(Whether or not she ever awakens powers is up to contrivance, he "awakens" powers during the school part, so, it's possible)

Spoiler: 5

I'm pretty sure he pieced it together himself that she did bad things/has had sex before
It's not a retcon?
relationship has changed from her trying to charm him for a mission, to them being in an actual developed relationship
She doesn't have to put an act for him anymore (she's still hiding stuff from him and readers)
respects priest as her partner (her HUMAN partner with HUMAN standards)
If partner was demon, demon wouldn't care for things like chastity and purity

Did he? He never said so, and realised she kills people when he saw her whoring, lying
Retcon ch3, even if not, a regression of her behaviour, trust, to mmc and viewer, 111 chapters in
(Shown flashbacks and thoughts, conveniently none of that, how does this make her a better character? Usually, characters grow, maybe become more nuanced, she's been flattened)

You said it yourself, she "was" lying for the mission, now she's still lying 111 chapters in, it's shit
Human standards? you're saying honesty and virginity is an inhuman standard? What?
She respects her partner? What?
Sorry but you lost me

Spoiler: 6

Running gag Baba Yaga keeps showing her having sex
Lighten up

Baba shows for a reason, because it degrades fmc, average person isn't a bi whore, if they were, there'd be no point showing
(Look, she's eating, "...okay?", look, she's a whore, "gross")

Whoring for rom in romcom, is childish, "sex funny", at expense of mcs, we're supposed to care for the main characters, not laugh at them, if it was a side character it'd land better
(I'm not going to reduce my sense of humour to sex, just literal sex)

 

[67User67]

Spoiler: 7

Tl;dr Imuri is a demon who wants to change
Basically the average pridefull, self-motivated demon

a complex character

Self-motivated, selfish, not a valuable partner
"wants to change" when? I can't really name any "development" of her, she's not Power from CSM, far from it

How is she complex? She doesn't even know what she wants

Spoiler: 8

You being sex repulsed is not a valid criticism, but seems to be underlying animosity beneath half of the critiques
we should've known Imuri was never a virgin
she may have lied about being a virgin
To get on Priest's good side
because it was originally a mission given to her by Satan
she was trying to get it done by any means
why wouldn't she lie there
that wouldn't be so beneficial to the mission now would it
it would've been such sunshine an rainbows if they just cuddled instead of having sex, isn't what the story was heading for
first chapter to free himself from the sexual repression the church imposed upon the priest
sex repulsion gas leak is coming out again

You sound bitter, and like a woman, flip the genders, might help you
Being a whore flattens her character, lies to the viewer, for what reason?

She "was" a virgin until ch111, what does making her a whore do?
Everyone's born a virgin, you have to prove why not, never prove why
Her lying was entirely possible, but, we were shown flashbacks and thoughts, reason to believe her
She lied to start a relationship, then never cleared it up later, she probably has every STD
(do I have to say "How would you feel if your partner lied to you? If they had an STD and didn't tell you, now you have it?")
Mission, yea, but if we're shifting from fake to real, then usually, they also shift from lying to being honest
Any means, yea
Why not lie? Well, you can lie, people do it all the time, but, clear up your lies, regret, even if you don't feel shame, they'll find you more valuable than a person who doesn't, do it for them, not you
(If fmc felt regret, without ch111 ever happening, without shame coming to her, she'd be a better person)
"Now would it" someone repenting? That'd probably be amazing, he'd love her more, not less
Cuddling is great, even you can't find fault in it lmao
If it had a "I'll be waiting for when you're ready", it would've been such a sweeter tone, to not force him, not have him react, but act, ending on them maybe almost having sex, but instead cuddling as he wasn't ready, that, is real intimacy, love

Sex repulsion gas leak? People have reasons, have you ever thought against sex?

Church supports circumcision, mutilating genitals of babies, it's bad
Masturbation is not sex
One involves self, other involves another, if involving another, best you'd care most for them, and if they do too, it's mutual, most enjoyable

I remember when I first started this story, I was wondering if she was a virgin, given she's a sex demon, then ch3 revealed she was, so, I had hope that once she has sex, something will happen
(If she wasn't a virgin, it'd make sense to clear up her lie early in ch3, but, that was withheld for 108 chapters, ch10 flashback could've easily been ch111)

May not seem like it, I'd be okay if she wasn't a virgin, with good reason (depth),
She had no agency, no choice,
She was lied to (...hmm),
She hoped she'd be with them for life,
She could struggle having sex as it reminds her of many people she loved deeply, as an immortal, that could explain why she was shy
(I'd love that, "I don't want to do this, it hurts more than not", not wanting to get attached, as she knows how painful loss is)
(Baba you could say is opposite of that, a mortal got attached to an immortal, and that's cool, but Baba's character is done so painfully lame, what do we know of her? she likes fmc, got raped, now is a powerful witch, how is she acting different than anyone else would? Oh, she, wants revenge from when she got raped, likes fmc because she had sex with her and may have been the only joy in her life, this isn't interesting, it's like if Gojo from JJK went power hungry or something, ah, he's addicted to power because he has too much, acting as expected is not interesting)
ch111 ruins it, no love behind her sex, if ch100 didn't make that obvious

Delaying ch111's reveal defeats itself (if it was trying to) "empower" non-virgins, we're shown she's not a virgin as a bi prostitute, how does this empower anyone?
(50% population is female, 10% population is lgbt, what % are prostitutes? Who's going to relate to fmc? 5% max?)
If done right, it wouldn't hold back, "Meguro", fmc is a whore, she admits it early, she has no "firsts" left, nothing special, so those who want to see why, or are interested, can stay, those who don't, can leave early

It leads mmc and viewer on, to "prove a point"? point is, whores and liars are one and the same? We'll see, but so far that's it
What did we learn, bitches be crazy

Spoiler: 9

demon who's existence stands against everything he's believed in
DEEPLY flawed, who never got an oppurtunity to learn from her mistakes due to never faced consequences
after her missions was to leave and wait it out, anyone who was affected who survived died eventually, or died of old age
Priest also stands against everything she stood for

I see where you're coming from, that she's flawed in making wrong decisions, but, people don't "work" like that, you can't teach an old dog new tricks, she's conditioned to her old ways, she isn't a valuable partner, can't be
("Can someone truly change?" stories solely depend on who that person is, trying to "change" an immortal, won't work, that's probably the worst scenario, imagine trying to change Mass Effect's reapers, that'd be so retarded, but very "modern")
It is interesting to think a character that is flawed in every way, any way "we" see as flawed, but, if they're aware of the flaw, if they feel shame for their past, and they're not doing anything to remedy it, what's the point of caring for them? "I know what I did was bad, but I'll do it again, until you stop me", no, fuck off, I don't care
(She "never learns because no consequences", is this also a power unique to fmc)

Flaws are good, but these are written in the worst way, later, rather than earlier in the story, it can't be satisfying, how can you care more, even now knowing?
Does it explain anything in the past? No, I can't think of anything, she's just, always been a whore (and a liar), now we know, it wasn't, "oh that's why she does X", and Baba's care for her was only established in the same way, same chapter, doesn't explain anything, all the foreshadowing is done in such an ambiguous way, you can't care
Asmodeus made a pact with Baba, So?
Girl frozen in hell, So?
Dark dude and snails in his heart, So?
Baba will return, So?
Why should anyone care, it doesn't affect anything currently, so there's no current reason to care, only later
ch100+ has just been complete shit, a plane blew up, did I remind you of that or did you remember? It was a whole plane, it should matter right? But it doesn't, why care for the plane? Is it special? No, the story doesn't treat it special, that's why

Yea, she probably surfaced, did some shit, then back to Hell, even then, we're acting like she can't be accountable, was she just in a coma 99% of the time? she's immortal, she had to have thought of what she did, at least once
This story has the "demon" side work when it wants to, and "human" side work when it wants to
"Immortal?" "Demon"
"No power?" "Like a human" (...immortality)
"Mirror wings?" "Demon"
"Love?" "Human"
"No regret?" "Demon"
"Shy?" "Human"
"Lied?" "Demon"
"Ashamed?" "Human"
It's shit, very contrived

"Normalising" sex comes from a very privileged view, make it "normal", but none of the bad stuff, it doesn't work like that
If you want meaning in life, don't support the lowest forms of acts, eat well, speak well, love well
I don't like whores, cheaters, rapists, abusers, traffickers
(Or, given your sarcasm, I look up to the shameless, impatient, lazy, gluttonous, whorish, abusive, yelling, selfish "humans", next, we'll sympathise with them, Hitler was just misunderstood, he just needed a chance)

Spoiler: Image

(Don't spare your heart for the heartless)


Extra: I was going to add this to my way earlier comment, so I'll just add it here
I should've known early this story would be bad given the "modern mature" sympathising of literal demons
Fmc's definition of love is not sex, so what was ch100's point?
Flashback introduction 110 chapters in, holy shit writing, imagine lotr did that with, anyone, good stories don't rely on flashbacks but let you, define that person, listen to their words and not know for certain, that's great
(Not, flashbacks and thoughts, then lie)
Author needs to learn to separate themself from their work, it's tainted
Delaying the reveal defeats the purpose of revealing it for empowerment, coward
Why are we sympathising with rapists to begin with? What? Evil person, does evil thing, but has sad backstory? Show the person with a sad backstory not doing evil shit, like wtf
Is this the real "mature" theme is liking evil people? What, don't kill rapists (Asmodeus)? Then kill rapists (Baba)? Does this not contradict itself? or is it because the rapist was a woman, and the rapists were men, it's different, show the sad backstory to Baba's rapists, yea, great
It's just so retarded

Still 3/10, I'm a generational hater because I've learnt so much on what bad stories do from it, for me to not hate, I'd have to disregard what I've learnt
"Gantz", bad story, but had very unique development was more enjoyable than this, and ch105 was so cool, "Is she that dear to you?" "No... not really", just awesome, I love it

If you're alright with being lied to 111 chapters in, with childish characters/handling of mature themes, and nothing happening, by all means, read, but I recommend you skim, and see ch111 first if you have doubt (as the art makes it not a 1/10)

67User67... OUT!

Spoiler: ch100

 

[frankiefrancois]

ch3 she says she's a virgin, and tells Satan she's waiting for "the one" or whatever

Can it not mean "the one" to win her heart...? or "the one" to change her...? or "the one" she falls in love with..? Why would she lie to Satan about being a virgin? Also, Imuri says "me too" to being curious about the feeling of love, not "me too" to being a virgin. I don't even care to take anything else you said sersiouly if you can't even get this right. Maybe English isn't your first language.

 

[67User67]

Spoiler: Reply

Can it not mean "the one" to win her heart...?
or "the one" to change her...?
or "the one" she falls in love with..?
Why would she lie to Satan about being a virgin?
Also, Imuri says "me too" to being curious about the feeling of love, not "me too" to being a virgin.
I don't even care to take anything else you said sersiouly if you can't even get this right.
Maybe English isn't your first language.

Read and weep retard

Leading question, "Are you a virgin" (He implies he is, obviously he is, he's a priest)
Ending answer "Just like me"
She's lying through her teeth (due to ch111), even though Satan called her honest with her "desires" (lust, love)(what are we supposed to believe? nothing I guess)(Obviously I know she's lying about "just" in the human/demon sense, but the question isn't that)

She does say "As always ... make him fall for me", so as always, she's been whoring with everyone, ever, and she even admits to "making" him fall for her, there's no healthy intent, if she decides to, he's going to be groomed
(Maybe she realises she isn't lovable? she can only "make" people, as no one would willingly accept her)
(ch111 convolutes it, but I think, it's she never regrets, avoids shame, and that's her "never learn" because she didn't care to regret, but with love she does? she feels shame now with love? it's very strange, new for me)
(ch10 flashback she saw entirely as not her fault, never doubted herself? (ch111 changes this from "Poor her, never got a chance" to "Well, yea, she was probably cheating, lying, and shit"))
(ch100 was their consummation, even with utmost love she doesn't feel regret? it just doesn't make sense, it proves time and time again how worthless she is (She lied, then was "honest" but is still lying, so ch100 was to make her begin to feel shame?))
(as interesting as "regretless, shame worrying" character is, it's not engaging for romance, you want relation, not understanding (Could argue regret comes with sentience, as it relies on memory persistence))

Yes, she wants to "know love", no, that doesn't make her compelling, it's not new, how it's explored can be new, and I had hope it would be new (this requires depth, points to progress), but it's not, it's worse, it's, "lying regretless whore leads on traumatised prude to groom, then accuse of cheating, then guilt-trip after reacted into having sex (then unaccountable and non-confrontational after being caught in their lie they couldn't keep going)", isn't this like consent 101 to have a resounding "yes", his hands were shaking, that's not healthy (flip the genders), she should've known to stop, she's worthless as a partner
(His "flaw" which was dismantled not with, him trying, but just him ogling is the lamest redemption I've ever seen (Lesson learned, you get raped? look at some sexy people, it's for "you" after all))

This could easily be some translation error, but this is what I read, even without "just" which removes nuance, Satan called her honest, we're also given her thoughts and flashbacks
Imagine seeing Makima's thoughts and flashbacks in CSM, with the "Bang" as a reveal twist, it'd be much worse
It does thoughts and flashbacks, then reveal, it's completely backwards, unsurprisingly, it's completely shit

Spoiler: Extra

Spoiler: Why ch111

I think why ch111 was done, because I can't find good reason, is
"Funny", "Win", and "Empower"
-It "redeemed" itself by being "funny" (...whatever you get the point)
-Done so fmc can "win", be ego boosted, as "sex is winning", being desired to fulfill self-worth, and author is clearly attached to the characters, no one dies, they want the characters to win, characters winning is the author jerking themself off
(Artists draw their oc's having sex with like, anyone, it's called "ego drawing", this is the lamest thing you can do, and it's being done)
(Author likely projects how she'd react to figure out how fmc would (explains ch111 reaction, acting "as expected" (how a human would)), and as expectedly boring (premise subversion) and worthless (now ch100 means nothing, how could it when she reacts as such (fmc cares, if she didn't, she wouldn't react, it's that simple)), really is an oc, "Ok, now draw her having awesome sex")(We know she doesn't regret, care negatively, as she's lying, so she must be fond of it, care positively, she doesn't like the competition it creates, which Baba is trying to create, if she regret, there would not be competition)
-"virginity doesn't matter", I think, or maybe it's "sex work is real work", something about sex positivity, at the moment I can't care to think about it, just go watch a dog hump a pillow and maybe you'll have a light-bulb moment

ch111 ruins her behaviour, before,
she was an honest virgin, that went to prove that you couldn't judge a book by its cover, and that some people really are just victims of circumstance, curious about love as she seemed to never be able to get close to people enough to romantically attach, because they would judge, never gave her a chance
Now,
she's a lying whore who doesn't want to talk about it, and is immortal too, so any confusion about that is now cleared up (Does a sex demon's mortality depend on sex, so without her power she had no need? how is she still alive? do all demons live forever? Whatever to all that nonsense, she's old, that's it), she's also now acting as expected, a sex demon having sex (even if the main purpose would be to gain power, and she cannot, she still does, she does it purely for fun and to use it against people), she is exactly as you'd expect, even if you were lead not to for 111 chapters, also not only lying to the main character but the viewer too, has anything she said been truthful? We cannot know, she's been regressed like it's rent-a-peak, next we'll be seeing mmc freak out about his underwear having sex in the washing machine

How many chances did she have? ch10 would lead to believe, not many, ch111 shows many, it's like a retcon
("As always" could've meant, she tried to get close, but couldn't, and didn't want to be forced with someone who hates her (nor did she want to force them, as it looked like she was quite passive, is, passive), but now it means, what, like what was wrong with Baba or the Priest on ch111? She even said he was a good guy right? and Baba was similar to mmc? Maybe this is even more "girlbossing" that she actually, did, have many chances and mmc should feel lucky to have her, she isn't desperate (Not, can't find anyone to like her, but can't find anyone she likes), like I'm saying this just completely flips her character for what purpose? It could've been most rejected found solace in most dejected, whatever)
(Passive being, not a whore)

Spoiler: Boring:

Childish immortal (Oxymoron, "immature mature")
Premise subversion subverted (Why? Sex demon not have sex... jk)*
Subverted subversions (Asmodeus "Lost", then "Won", like what?)*
Acting as expected (Lucifer most painful example)*
Flashback introduction 111 chapters in
"This happened, then this happend" (like some postgame narration, it's unimmersive)
"Fight the patriarchy" (South Korea)
Jobber villains
Never any stakes, or doubts
Main characters never lose
Literal name reveal (seriously? never seen this done before)
No latent power awakening (this is basic, things happen, why not?)*
No references for power
"Master plan"
"Idk love"

Nothing happens, it's all boring, thought I'd list it (for myself mostly, I think "Why is it so shit?" for fun)

Spoiler: Modern/Woman writing

Something you should be aware of, modern feminism is hypocritical in fatherly and motherly roles, if there's a "man who steps up" he's praised, but only because of that, because he is good/useful for women (not because it's simply good), but a woman being a mother and being praised, is "reducing" her (even if it is, simply good)
(Men should be shoved into fatherhood, even if he doesn't want to (it's not his, he can't control who she sleeps with), women should do what they want, but if they do step into motherhood, she doesn't need a man (As backwards as it seems))
Sloth is pitied, because he "stepped up" to be like a father to mmc, and called fmc hot (ego boost, as "sex is winning", desire), he was good/useful for women
(All men should be like him, basically, also tracks for mmc, but should not be like Greed (Were all female "bosses" pitied? Envy, Lust, Baba, Fmc, is there any not? Who's the Greed equivalent? or Glut? It's probably sexist, I'm not sure, don't care))
You can see Asmodeus comment the mass rape is "low quality lust", why? (why even bother saying that?) men are doing it
(Baba's rapists are never pitied, but Asmodeus is, maybe it tried to not seem sexist, by having mmc be raped in the beginning, but it treats it as something to be "solved"? by women being hot? it's out of touch (Yea, mmc and Baba both get raped, and there's the whole "Baba's like me" mmc does, so they're "fighting" over fmc cause they're like equals, but this is lame, it breaks down contrast, like ch111 does to the school part, it's now two whores going after him, he's screwed either way, opposite of fmc, seems like two people who'd do anything for her (not sexist surely, fmc does whatever, mmc scrapes by)))

"Male devotion" is a theme in woman written romance, do anything for her, expect nothing from her (If you're confused why they don't like male possessiveness, even though it'd naturally correlate to devotion, is because possession would be "owning" her, (even as she does him)), hypocritical probably in more ways than you think, will he comfort her? yes, will she? no, will he propose? yes, will she? no, will he read her mind? yes, will she? no, will he give her flowers? yes, will she? no, etc, he will act first, or react to her in ways she allows, accountability and confrontation are not common, if present at all
(That's this story, he's a complete doormat, it's strange though, cause the title makes you think, what sweet love will lure in someone so avoidant, wrong, entrapment)
Edit: I should mention, whichever gender "has one over" the other, is also a clear indication of what gender the author is

Blah

Edit: I guess my general point, is that you care less due to ch111, I can't find any good reason to care more, it's a regression of care, like, how am I supposed to care more? It ruins re-reading, doesn't make it better, sure, we didn't know, now we know, to, what, "empower" by showing "that"? It's like the worst version of "that", not, finding love, but pure lust, in a romance story, like this isn't fucking hentai, does anyone relate to ch111? no, or you're out of touch
It glorifies "that", the people who do "that" do not enjoy it, if it was one of the most enjoyable professions everyone would do it, it's just so out of touch in every way, and, now everything we've heard can just be, not true, great
(A bunch of shit for no reason, the manga)
(Now we know that, all before it is now worth less, absurd)

Spoiler: Edit 2

Paarthurnax from Skyrim had
"What is better? to be born good or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?"
(If you want what I think, I'd imagine effort is more valuable as it's reliable, proof of virtue, and it's a sick ass quote, you don't get things like it from this story, I really can't think of anything notable any character said)
Which is you know, applicable pre-ch111, however given she has no power, she has no reason to have sex, so she's "human" in that regard, she had sex "for the mission" (that she appears to just, accept), yet Baba wasn't part of that, she just did that, for fun, then she had sex with her macho man client (which glorifies sex work as something amazing, that you can have amazing sex, have an amazing client, no, that's just so fucking retarded, no man like that is paying for a whore, nor would it ever be like that, it's just so hentai-y, it's such a whiplash to literal dregs of writing), the mission she did not regret doing, I mean, clearly (In what way did she, she didn't like being seen having sex, but was okay with showing the rest of it? She only feels shame for her whoring, because she got caught whoring, she had no shame in the moment, nor regret in memory)

Are we supposed to hate the client? Pity him? I'm not "bad or good guy?", I don't understand what the takeaway of his character is supposed to be, what did he add to the story? What I imagine is to ensure she "isn't a virgin" (even though she was boning Baba), and supposed to add value to fmc as a "look what I can pull" thing, but, he's a sex client, which then shows the others raping Baba, so, he's not worth anything? It's like the "men fuck anything" "I can pull men", so you're equivalent to, what, garbage?
Is the goal of that point in the story to give reason why Baba liked Fmc? The way to wrap in Baba, is rape bad? sex good? can we use any other story beat please, like, anything interesting, beliefs? conviction? or at minimum not done in the most predictable and boring way, "sex, love, rape, hate", and you know Baba isn't going to die because no one does

Maybe we'll get an explanation, but the point for fmc for the main mission is because she has no power, and mmc can detect even faintest traces, so why was she put on the mission in ch111? could Asmodeus not have done it like in the beginning? Who knows, if it's not explained, it's another shit plot point

P.s. you can resize images by clicking on them, then the second button lets you change size

Maybe English isn't your first language.

Any insult will bounce off my pecs, tumble down my succulent six-pack, and get wafflestomped down the drain by yours truly