1 feature and 1 change to this website 100% translator, reader and business friendly. win, win win.

[Ashgur]

Helping new translator that want to start when everything seems to be taken by big group

=> By adding an inner scrip that check once for any manga who has not been tagged as completed, when was it last time it has been updated. (ex: one year) . If it looks like it has been dropped send to an admin a notification with a premade message that can be instantly posted on "orphan manga" list that thoses new translator can check.


Being more than just aggregator to SURVIVE THRIVE

=> By offering an online reader for thoses who don't have their own (like what you are doing now)
=> But also serving as a HUB platform that link everything to the scanlator's team website(or rather manga's page) like you are doing with RAW and licenced material.

Basically: do what you are doing now, but instead of using your own online reader for everything, even manga who can be read on the scanlator's website,
!\ you would still give notification when the new chapter is available but instead of hosting your chapter here everytime, link directly to the chapter on the scanlation group if they have a website.


I think that would avoid ANY future drama, it will avoid ANY risk of being closed.
And you would become leader in online manga reader by being the best manga HUB, featuring both: project by team without online reader, team who have an online reader, and official material. AND (the 1st point) be the BEST platform for thoses who want to start translating manga by offering them a list of popular manga that had been drop (ex blind faith descend since GameOfScanlation disapeared) for X or Y reason.

Not to mention that many do not really beleive in the "aggregator can be friendly to translator group" because with a few steps back, and it can sound more like blackmail "post on our website, or we will fill the void anyway" ²²

²²especialy if you get to a stage when you become the leading website without being shutdown (as this new system would allow)

 

[RonBWL]

1. Orphan manga status update is nice, but given the scope of MD, are we going to just limit it to English or every single supported language out there? It'll get messy unless we can draw a line here.

2. The HUB idea has been discussed a lot of time already and personally I just think it's not possible to do that.

 

[shouldsleep]

@Ashgur

Here's why the HUB idea is fundamentally flawed.

1. Not all scanlation sites are user friendly.
2. It only encourages more drama.
3. People aren't fond of using more than one site (there are more than tens of sites that don't upload MD)

 

[Ashgur]

1. yea sure. english is still the dominant language out here, so if it was dropped in english, there is a very big change it is available in other language anyway.

2. how so? for the update notification is not as difficult as it could be nowadays. Thanks to discord you don't need to get ask the scanlator group to implement something that will communicate with your system: every group who have their own reader make thoses update through discord... a simple mangadex bot that go there could, just like any user, get the notification like this, and get the link to the chapter.

It seems many who use mangadex use it mostly to give them face when in reality they couldn't care less about the scanlator.

But if mangadex aim was to be THE website that respect the scanlator, then that would be the best and probably only solution.
(to be honest when i read some comment or suggestion "reader friendly" i wonder why thoses postign them are here and not in any other website "we don't care, aggregator must have as many manga as possible on their website for the reader. the end justifies the means"


tl;dr we finally have the tools that could make the (2) "easely" happend. Something that did not exist in the past. Why not try it and make a revolution (yea, i'm probably dithyrambic on this one)

 

[Ashgur]

@shouldsleep

1. Not all scanlation sites are user friendly.

irrelevant because: when you clic on the chapter, it lead directly to the chapter page.

2. It only encourages more drama.
how so? i think it KILLS any drama as explained before.

3. People aren't fond of using more than one site (there are more than tens of sites that don't upload MD)

User exeperience won't change: you still use MD as you always did, once read the chapter in it source, you just.. close the page...
They won't have to browse on the scanlator website.
If you imply tracker, scrip etc: don't tel me you never used duckduckgo, ublock or stuff like that? because you can't bring this up if your use the internet without caring about it in the 1st place.

For mobile for example (if MD get a proper app) it will just open your default browser with the link to the chapter in question using your default browser (duckduckgo or something similar (gainif you trully care about script and limited data usage: that mean you already use this kind of stuff)

Also this argument is pretty much: let me use mangasky,mangafox and any other "bad aggregator" but i ll use MD to give me face on reddit no?
(basicaly le last part of my previous post)


bear in mind that this is only for thoses who have their own reader and don't want to post on MD's reader.
+ you will also remove any delay scanlator's group puts in when they upload to MD... making MD even more up to date with translations. (one of the main reason i switched to MD compared to other aggregator)

 

[DaoFox]

@Ashgur

well, If I had to link to countless websites just to read a series, I would rather not read it at all. the biggest hazard in the hub format is virus/trojans. its easy for MD to keep tabs on their own server for the security of readers. this isnt possible when every chapter links out to different sites. I like MD because it doesn't force all these ad's on me and the hub suggestion shoves me onto sites littered with them, with a limited data plan you are basically telling me i can read less because I cant afford to outlive the data-burn from sound and video ads assaulting me. and dont give me the excuse that i could/should be using addons to block traffic, because the whole point of linking to the scanlators site is to allow them to get ad revenue, which you just decided to disregard by mentioning script blockers.

many sites also aren't phone friendly like MD is which means I couldn't read on the go anymore, which just reduces the views the series gets as a whole, not increase it in favour of the scanlations team.

also, shouldsleep didnt imply trackers, you inferred it, there's a difference. the points sleep lists are the prime reasons people wont go for the idea, you simply wont be able to sell it to people before they decide to stop listening and go elsewhere.

on the topic of apps, I refuse to install an app for the purpose of reading manga, because I don't want to give any permissions or access to my data just to do what I have done anonymously for years. the key point is actually that the number of fake manga apps is already so large that users will just end up accidentally installing the wrong one and not realise they are being used. also, apps have to be developed. where is MD supposed to get the money to have an app made if they aren't charging readers to use their platform?

the addition of useful features are good suggestions, but suggesting that MD completely changes how it works is unreasonable, because that's not what the community formed on MD around.

 

[Holo]

Your suggestion has been suggested countless times before.

A key concern is that we can't control what is on the group site. If the site uses malware ads/bitcoin miners/pop ups etc then we are sending you directly into harm's way. Also, sites might change url, they might die, etc.

 

[Ashgur]

@DaoFox

If I had to link to countless websites just to read a series, I would rather not read it at all. the biggest hazard in the hub format is virus/trojans.

like i said: the user experience won't change, here is an example in case i was not clear
example:
https://mangadex.org/title/29534/the-lost-city
click on the chapter. nothing is changing for you if it's written on the adress bar:
https://mangadex.org/chapter/623083/1 or https://translator.website/the_lost_city/chapter/623083/1
you don't have to browse the translator website to find the chapter, you get to the chapter just like you get it with the online reader of MD.

You whole post is about security... but you speak as if you are using raw enternet/edge explorer or chrome...
You say you fear torjan bitcoin miner and all the spooky boogy stuff ... but if you trully fear them you should already have contengency no? I mean... the internet is not just about scanlation.. thoses stuff exist everywhere .... 🧐

If you say you don't then i call bullshit on you. This is just fear-mongering to support/push an argument, who btw was use countless time to support any and all terrible aggregator fulll of ads. "at least here you just need adblock😋"
And i m not even arguing about how false this is ... (it would be way to easy but would also raise the drama even more due to all the difamation and false accusation some MD fanboy spit)

I am also not even saying that thoses are just suggestion and MD could ask for a certain standard if they link to the translator website (like using HTTPS) (most of them are because they are rented, not build from scratch)


many sites also aren't phone friendly like MD is which means I couldn't read on the go anymore

again you are not reading on their website but on their reader.

also, shouldsleep didnt imply trackers, you inferred it, there's a difference.

he said user friendly. Concidering all the critcisim and false accusation ("it's too heavy for my phone/data", " it have bitcoin miner" and your recent critic like torjan etc) the user-unfriendlyness of having tons of parasitic stuff on your website, i did think he was implying thoses.


on the topic of apps, I refuse to install an app for the purpose of reading manga, because I don't want to give any permissions or access to my data just to do what I have done anonymously for years.

again you speak like that and yet ... it seems you are kind of showing the oposit (support by your apparent lack of knowledge) .

You can refuse all permission (my permission for all my apps are always denied as default) each time i open an app it will ask me if i want to permit this one time access to this or that (ex recording on shazzam) with 30sec window before a default refusal

if you are saying that you can't or do not that ... then you are just being hypocrit , or i am just sad for you because you have no idea how much data you are leaking. (bonus point if you use google, chrome, default webb browser on your phone etc etc)
Again, another case of "my privacy" ... just as an argument, but not really something you care. (cf: "save face" )

number of fake manga apps is already so large that users will just end up accidentally installing the wrong one and not realise they are being used.

irrelevant since you usualy download it from the website you trust (ex: you go to reddit: reddit dirrectly link the reddit app from the store... you can't download a fake) (and i am not even arguing about the fact that the playstore and IOS have their own fake filtering stuff)

I don't care about MD using an app.i just said that the idea mention in the Op can work should MD decide to make an app .
The app stuff is only here because again, many said "oh but my data is limited" apps being more efficient .

tl;dr
if you really care about what you said and are serious about your criticisim.: i am 100% with you.
But then you should already have contengency already in place to make this irrelevent simply because you are CONSTANTLY targeted outside of scanlation in a much, MUCH more aggresive way... and yet it look like you are unaware of it...



nb: please note that i am not even arguing about how you guys are speaking as if: " the translator are evil and most of them just want to trap the reader , thank god aggregator are here !😇 " .. that's quite sad and frightning to be honest, i know this is the enternet but still... it's almost worst that when you speak about crack/repacking group's website... only thoses who knwo nothing speak of it as if it was the big bad wwolf in the forest that will eat you at night... like you do in regard to the issue with the security of translator's website...

 

[shouldsleep]

@Ashgur

1. Not all scanlation sites are user friendly.

irrelevant because: when you clic on the chapter, it lead directly to the chapter page.

Well. Uh. You clearly don't know what you are suggesting. I use lots of scanlation sites (a relic of mangafox imploding post onemanga and not being aware batoto existed) and there are a lot of issues with going from one scanlation site to another

Not user friendly could mean either

A. Their reader is terrible
B. Ladden with ads, bitcoin miner, both or worse
C. They use URL redirects

A is generally what you see in plenty of blogs. Users here in MD are blessed by the great viewer which most other readers lack.

B means that when you enter their site, they could potentially inject your PC with viruses and some other sites use the sites for bitcoin mining. To a certain extent, MD checks if the links to scanlators are complying with site linking rules, but that doesn't stop websites from either:
Simply changing the coding of the website (you'd be surprised that I find some sites just instantly become nasty because they just changed the ad provider or something)
Having different scripts for the reader vs the scanlation site itself

C is another different monster entirely. No one in their right mind would suggest allowing this to their casual userbase.

2. It only encourages more drama.
how so? i think it KILLS any drama as explained before.

Just because you think that this kills drama doesn't mean it does. The fact that the groups did all of these events in the most dramatic fashion means that it was bound to happen anyway, no slight compromise would've changed that, only total control, which obviously MD won't give them.

3. People aren't fond of using more than one site (there are more than tens of sites that don't upload MD)
User exeperience won't change: you still use MD as you always did, once read the chapter in it source, you just.. close the page...
They won't have to browse on the scanlator website.
If you imply tracker, scrip etc: don't tel me you never used duckduckgo, ublock or stuff like that? because you can't bring this up if your use the internet without caring about it in the 1st place.

There are plenty of facets to this one. Having more sites means:

More google autofill options (which annoys a lot of people)
More sources of potential malware (goes back to point 1)
It's an extra click
Some sites load slower because server traffic and whatnot, Not everyone thinks that this is worth the bother.

 

[Ashgur]

@shouldsleep

I use lots of scanlation sites (a relic of mangafox imploding post onemanga and not being aware batoto existed) and there are a lot of issues with going from one scanlation site to another

oh ok, i think we have a misundertsanding here:
when i say scanlation site i do not mean aggregator.
i mean the website of the translator.

i would use an example here but with all the drama i will not post example suing meraki or JB, lhtranslation etc or even champions scans reader (who is the most... complexe?)

Just because you think that this kills drama doesn't mean it does. The fact that the groups did all of these events in the most dramatic fashion means that it was bound to happen anyway, no slight compromise would've changed that, only total control, which obviously MD won't give them.

please explain.
drama can only exist if there is a conflict between 2 party and no one to cleary blame.
With this change, everytime there will be a problem with something, it will always be clearly translator or MD. credit is 100% translator, or MD is they decide to f*** up big time by selling stuff or going out of their way.

translator won't have to pull out anything. MD will be the best partner for them since they will bring more views and popularity to somethign they control. It's their translation after all.
meanwhile mangadex will be the N°1 reference and most complete manga reading website with no fear of going down because the most popular series will naturaly be translated by team

Spoiler

small team will become big if they take a stuff who become popular

. Should a C&D comes up, MD won't suffer from it and will just continue with the flow and change the link to the new source should there be a new one..

anyway with this system, drama like we saw this month just can't happend. translator team doing shitty thing: probably, btu drama, fighting the two side of the same coin won't. hense the win, win, win unless one decide to unilateraly lose.

More google autofill options (which annoys a lot of people)
More sources of potential malware (goes back to point 1)
It's an extra click
(3)Some sites load slower because server traffic and whatnot, Not everyone thinks that this is worth the bother.

please develop: you are using google so .... yea ahah.. (would be even more ilarious if you tell me you have an epic game account and use epic store but that's out of topic)
check my previous post.

it's not an extra clic, read my previous post or do you want an example?
(3)then point for my idea again ?🙃 the trafic will be dilluted and thus faster, MD won't have to hold everything. Translator reader fotent are faster (yes, yes test this out, i tested it with lhtranslation for example) due to their lower trafic.

 

[LowSanity]

@Ashgur have you used readers from other sites? Some of them are great while other are slow and loading forever(i have 48mb/s upload and 8mb/s download). Not all readers are as mobile friendly, use friendly and as customisable as MD.
I don't know if you've heard/seen but more and more sites are deliberately blocking features when you use adblock.
There are new melawear created every day, do you think every protective program is updated at the same time as virus is created? I'm using both anivirus and animelawear programs and my pc have been infected at least a 100 times.
"i think it KILLS any drama as explained before" and i disagree with you as ppl explained before. Best argument don't you think?
I disagree with your argument on fundamental level. It's up to me if i'm gonna use protection or suffer for not doing so. Are you some kind of arbiter of internet morality so you can sentence someone's opinion as invalid based on their internet protection actions? I have the right to be opinionated and if you are gonna invalidate my opinion i will do the exact oposite to what you want. You may not like it but that's how many ppl will react.
"The app stuff is only here because again, many said "oh but my data is limited" apps being more efficient" Really? I was asking MD for app so the site will be easier to operate using my old motorola android phone.
I have my own small business and my stance is pro client. Pro user when it comes to MD. When i go to watch a movie or do any other activity i do not look up for example 20th century fox movie theater, i go to the most convenient place. When i want to wash my car i do not go to the water treatment plant, i wash my car in the local car wash. You may whine as much as you want and ppl will still use aggregator sites for convenience sake the same way ppl go to walmart insead of going to smaller local shops.
" the translator are evil and most of them just want to trap the reader , thank god aggregator are here !😇 " If you really think that MD users have this opinion why are you even speaking to ppl here? It's the most dishonest take i've heard other then hot takes of political activists.
Edit: loads of typos

 

[Ashgur]

@LowSanity

I agree wih you and the problem come from this sentence:

It's up to me if i'm gonna use protection or suffer for not doing so. Are you some kind of arbiter of internet morality so you can sentence someone's opinion as invalid based on their internet protection actions?

If your argument is incompatible with your action yes. YES!
Because this is pure falacy, it's dishonest and thus: you "argument" is invalid.
Do what i say do not do what i do

Look like you are using mangadex juste because it's an aggregator without adds, and not because they are more respectfull to the translator. fair enouth... but are you saying you are browsing the internet without addblocker ?
if adds bother you on an aggregator i can't help but imagine how bad your internet experience is.. and yet ...

again, back to the "do what i say, don't do what i do" you can't say i use X because no ads when ads become irrelevant thanks to adblocker.. and if you don't use adblocker: then you can't say ads bother you.

you may think it's a catch 22 but it's only is because you use ads as an argument, it's a falacy when your action do not match your beleif/says/arguments.
if you argument is the fear of malware etc .. then you should have contengency because even before you get to MD, you are already vulnerable.
don't you fear the malware ? how come you have no protection?
using malware as a way to demonize translator's website is PURE DISHONESTY.
that's my point.
I am not asking for you to do something specific, specificaly to read on a translator's reader.

When i go to watch a movie or do any other activity i do not look up for example 20th century fox movie theater, i go to the most convenient place.

please refrain from bad analogy. Your local theater Bought the right to play the movie. and for a limited time. same for supermarket, they buy the food and then try to sell it. It's totally different from what scanlation is and aggregator/translator.

Not to mention if you trully wish to use this analogy then like i said: user experience wont change: the only difference would be that the movie would be streamed from 20th century fox HQ to the cinema instead of having the data directly on the theatre...

" the translator are evil and most of them just want to trap the reader , thank god aggregator are here !😇 " If you really think that MD users have this opinion why are you even speaking to ppl here? It's the most dishonest take i've heard other then hot takes of political activists.

that's no what i think, that's what is transpiring in all theses comment since the drama. look at sololeveling comemnt section everyone is saying JB have bitcoin miner in it, etc.
everytime you went to reddit before they said bato.to and now mangadex are the go to because of their relationship with the teams. not ever once did they mention the convenience of aggregator because aside from a very few terrible one: they are all the same. But like i said, it was probably just a reddit thing, to save face and look nicer/elite to the rest. kind of like how they mocked 9gag while still using it (insert wallmart argument) but that's out of topic i guess..

 

[shouldsleep]

@Ashgur

I use lots of scanlation sites (a relic of mangafox imploding post onemanga and not being aware batoto existed) and there are a lot of issues with going from one scanlation site to another

oh ok, i think we have a misundertsanding here:
when i say scanlation site i do not mean aggregator.
i mean the website of the translator.

i would use an example here but with all the drama i will not post example suing meraki or JB, lhtranslation etc or even champions scans reader (who is the most... complexe?)

Nope. I mean what I said. I roam a lot of scanlation sites as a relic of prior history, hence I know a lot about scanlation sites.
Take those sites for example, lhscans had been known before to have broken the no unsavory anything in the site because of bitcoin mining related stuff(was it ad or actually bitcoin mining I don't recall) and this is just the tip of what you could get from visiting untrustworthy sites. Some sites have far worse things in them than using up your computer's processing capacity. If you think your ublock whatever actually blocks viruses, rather than just domains, then you're barely scraping the surface.

please explain.

A lot of things, so I'll just put the easiest one. One of the reasons for this drama is sniping issue, which meraki responded with by putting chapters on hostage because MD won't act on the said sniping. Now obviously sniping will happen, with or without MD as it has been long been a thing, but if you keep both sides (neutrality to sniping, as is MD's stance, and linking sites) drama will inevitably happen if you don't agree to MD's neutrality, which they obviously won't back down on. Something has to give and muh links isn't a quick answer to everything. Plus it gives scanlators more power (they could say boycott xx translation or else and some other nonsense) and that's a nasty business that shouldn't be a thing (it happened to trash scanlations before, but not here, in case you don't know)

please develop: you are using google so .... yea ahah.. (would be even more ilarious if you tell me you have an epic game account and use epic store but that's out of topic)
check my previous post.

I use google because it's the most efficient browser here and I'll be damned before I use an ipad to browse manga, so the app whatever does not suit me. I'm assuming that that holds true to a lot of people.

it's not an extra clic

It is an extra click. If you go to your follows. Click on the chapter -> read on site option. Instead of just clicking the chapter itself, there would be an extra step. Setting up a code to go to link rather than to the chapter takes an extra step if both chapter is available here vs on site, or available on both.

(3)then point for my idea again ?🙃 the traffic will be diluted and thus faster, MD won't have to hold everything. Translator reader fotent are faster (yes, yes test this out, i tested it with lhtranslation for example) due to their lower trafic.

You're severely overestimating site capacity. Remember when MD loaded slow af because of all the visitors. Yeah now picture that on some other site (PS. there's also precedent to this. Meraki comes to mind after SL started geting popular). A lot of the smaller blogs have barely an iota of an ggregator's capacity. Plus lhtrans is a poor comparison.

 

[DaoFox]

@Ashgur

are you just a troll acting like a condescending prick? you refer to me with quotes despite having not said a word you are arguing. like normal people I have security software with firewalls installed that check my device on the off-chance something gets downloaded, its immediately quarantined. It's called kaspersky and does all that protecting without demanding i block every script or ad a site tries to run. but if you cant afford that or your device doesn't have the power to run it, there is the free edition of avast.

you claim that just because a site has a reader that the user impact wont be affected? now that's BS, there are multiple different readers out there, anything from pre-packaged to custom/self-made. every time a reader has to switch sites they have to remember the navigation rules for that particular reader. just because a site has a reader doesn't mean its user friendly, something MD is because it was structured around reader feedback (something scanlation sites have neither the time or interest in doing, the same can be said about them policing their own servers.)

you can call BS on what ever delusions you may have, but I was pretty clear in what I said.

1) never said a word about adblock
2) never brought up TROJANS (that's what its called BTW in case you didn't know), or bitcoin miners,
3) Most sites on the internet are clean, never said they were evil and the only sites you have to worry about enough to block scripts are dodgy or illegal sites you should not be visiting anyways. I suppose that must be a concern of yours judging from your aggressive responses so far.
4) I DO use chrome, and my only addons are for saving browser tab lists as chrome has a habit of crashing and forgetting what I was last viewing, and the firewall add-on provided by my security software. you DO REALISE that add-ons can mine more data from you than you give them credit for right?
5) your argument against chrome is ridiculous on the grounds that I know that google collects my data, I gave them permission to in the additional options during my phones initial set-up. unlike some idiots, I read the terms. google can be held accountable, and again this is permitted collection, unlike a false app pretending to be associate to a particular site made by a faceless entity.
6) be less of a hypocrite rather than insulting others as one for having a particular view. just because I don't do something you view as "normal", don't pretend to have the moral high ground.
7) Infer = deduce or conclude (something) from evidence and reasoning rather than from explicit statements. unfortunately you infer something without either evidence or sound reasoning to back it up.
8) if you really cared about your security you don't install apps directly from websites, you install them via google play store for android and the app store for iOS. installing from anywhere else opens you up to the risk of the fake apps I mentioned.
9) scanlators are not evil just as aggregates are not good for anyone. you seem to be quoting the inside of your own head rather than what anyone here is actually saying as some deluded attempt to push a personal agenda on MD
10) you want less drama? remind scanlator groups that what they do is technically illegal, so act less demanding and self-entitled regarding their so called dues. so few scanlators left due to the drama that trying to force a complete policy change when the vast majority of groups were without issues just makes you sound bias to those who left for their own reasons. notice how a bunch of the series that got pulled because of the group leaving are seeing new groups take their place? by groups that are entirely volunteer and not demanding of any particular special treatment for their 'service'?

TLR

Talk less, Learn more. THEN give your opinion when you don't just feel like insulting them. If you are responding to multiple people then tag accordingly, don't just tag me and lay all your issues as a targeted response. some poor fool might actually make the mistake that you know what you are talking about. but who am I to judge, I just work with computers and possess a brief education in programming, I couldn't possibly know what I am talking about either.

 

[LowSanity]

@Ashgur I feel that it will take way too long but let's do this.

"If your argument is incompatible with your action yes. YES!
Because this is pure falacy, it's dishonest and thus: you "argument" is invalid.
Do what i say do not do what i do"

Fallacy? So the person that had an abortion in the past can't be pro life? So the person that don't use guns can't be pro gun? I disagree.


"Look like you are using mangadex juste because it's an aggregator without adds, and not because they are more respectfull to the translator. fair enouth... but are you saying you are browsing the internet without addblocker ?
if adds bother you on an aggregator i can't help but imagine how bad your internet experience is.. and yet ..."

Nice job assuming my position, isn't that perhaps some kind of fallacy? hmmmm...
I'm using the site as it's great design, new and useful features are discussed and added often, high level of customisation. And partially 'cause it's more convenient. I personally am not against some ads on any site. It's up to the site if they will use it or not but they shouldn't expect that it will have no negative effects.
I haven't said anything 'bout me using adblocker. I do use it but i actually allow some ads to be shown as if i'm using some site i do believe that they can make some cash. What i was saying is that more and more sites are going everything they can so ppl will stop using adblockers. Some sites are unsusable if you have it enabled and that's probably the future.


"again, back to the "do what i say, don't do what i do" you can't say i use X because no ads when ads become irrelevant thanks to adblocker.. and if you don't use adblocker: then you can't say ads bother you."

You know that you can have adblock enabled and still see some ads? Right? That's how i'm using it so it's not making ads irrelevant. Same way having virus protection doesn't give you virus immunity. There are viruses that will infect your device anyway, not many but they exist.
Ads in no way are irrelevant thanks to adblockers, ads are getting more agressive thanks to ppl using adblockers. Just 'cause i don't suffer or see anyone suffer from some disease doesn't prevent me getting it next week. I don't get your logic.


"it's a falacy when your action do not match your beleif/says/arguments"

Ppl can pay taxes and be against taxation.


"using malware as a way to demonize translator's website is PURE DISHONESTY."

Ppl are not saying that. There are ppl that fear melawear and there are ppl that argue that scanlators shouldn't do it for cash. I haven't seen anyone merging those two separate arguments into one just like you did. Your take is dishonest or you are missing what ppl are trying to say.


"please refrain from bad analogy"

Yes, they aren't great but i'm first say second think type of person. What i was trying to say is that most ppl don't care. They will use the most convenient place even if it hurts industry/company whose products/services they are buying/using.


"look at sololeveling comemnt section everyone is saying JB have bitcoin miner in it, etc."

Some misinformed and some trolling teenagers typing hot takes on the internet. You may disagree but i would say you should check the demografics. MD is trying to combat the misinformation 'round the recent drama.


"everytime you went to reddit before they said bato.to and now mangadex are the go to because of their relationship with the teams. not ever once did they mention the convenience of aggregator because aside from a very few terrible one"

I don't use reddit for manga information so i personally haven't seen those comments but they weren't far from truth. Both bato.to had and MD mostly have good relationship with the scanlators. Something like 0,1% of scanlators had an issue and they used their power to by removing their work. While doing so they used the out of context discord messeges and the fact known to everyone who used this discord server to create drama. MD have mostly good relationship with scanlators but is anti making piles of cash from illegal activities. MD is incentivising users to go to scanlators sites. I'm just saying that ppl will always use huge centers instead of small scanlators site and they are free to do so.
Edit: typos

 

[DaoFox]

@LowSanity Regarding those sites you mentioned. they do try and prevent stuff like adblockers, the irony however is that they do so using scripts soo.... its usually embedded into one of the navigation or statics so you can tweak blocked settings to allow that 1 script through. if you allow the script to run that contains the anti adblock message/wall, it doesn't appear. besides all browsers have an option built in to allowed javascript to be disabled, you don't need an addon to achieve this sort of protection from malware which is why its ridiculous that Ashgur was demanding we use them.

 

[kaza_hesto]

Really confused by this suggestion and others which want Mangadex to replicate the functionality of an RSS reader. If people want to use an RSS reader, they'll use one. It's the value this site adds over that, like a good reader, hosting for dead groups, read chapter tracking, zero ads, et cetera which make it desirable to use.

 

[LowSanity]

@DaoFox i actually didn't know. I'm not tech savvy so i will look it up.

 

[Ashgur]

This post will be long, , english is not my first language as you can tel and i also have dyslexia .

@DaoFox

It's true that i never minded MD reader, a good enouth reader just require to have webtoon format or page style . So i give you that, i understand many would prefer using MD reader instead of the scanlator's.

1) never said a word about adblock

Yes, i mentionned addblock because one fo the biggest argument for MD is the ad free experience.

2) never brought up TROJANS (that's what its called BTW in case you didn't know), or bitcoin miners,

-.- really now?

"I would rather not read it at all. the biggest hazard in the hub format is virus/trojans." 1st line ...
http://archive.is/6skqA

bitcoin was holo's post

3) you pretty much said that using scanlator website are more dangerous than MD ...

its easy for MD to keep tabs on their own server for the security of readers. this isnt possible when every chapter links out to different sites [meaning the scanlator's website]

4) you use chrome and then speak about mining data ... ok. again: do what i say and not what i do

5) 10 buck you ahve no idea how much data is being collected. the problem with privacy and google is not about the fact that they collect data, it's about how unclear, how difficult is it to know what they actually collect. and what they do with it.

6)If you felt insulted, sorry but i am just making you face your own contradictions.

7) aren't you the one saying that? by saying scanlator site are more "evil" than MD, they use ads, and scripts, and spooky stuff?

8) well you were the one saying you could get download a bogus/fake apps from the app store. i just gave you an alternative

9) i am not quoting anything, i am just looking at what some people in the community seems to think of the scanlator and their website. Hell, even Holo himself said they are greedy.

10) you are basicaly using a website that said in one of their core rules that it's ok for group to remove their chapter. and you are being offended by tjem using that said rules. Sorry was this rule just for show?
why aren't you using any other aggregator them? you know, thoses who do not care about scanlator ? after all you say that they should "act less demanding and self-entitled regarding their so called dues."

you are so full of contradiction.
Daily reminder that what blew up the drama out of proportion was a post from one of JB who was eddited by one of MD staff to mention 'read it on kissmanga'
anyway, this is not a post made to speak about the drama. but you avoid drama by making everyone happy with their goal:

The goal of the reader is to have easy access to the translated mangas, the goal of this website is to grow with it's final goal being to become legit and the goal of the scanlator is to translated thoses manga and be known and like any work: be paid for it tof uther enhance the quality (as you can see on Solo leveling who is not from JB and now got KR aggregator's watermark...).


@LowSanity

Fallacy? So the person that had an abortion in the past can't be pro life? So the person that don't use guns can't be pro gun? I disagree.

This is a COMPLETLY different mater, and the analogy itself was poorly done. I hope that by asking me to answer to your analogy you are not trying to put politics into this thread and kill it?
A person that had abortion can change his mind. (it not even unusualespecialy AFTER the abortion)

My point is you can't say you are pro life when you want to abort everytime. you can't say you are pro gun when you fight against having guns in your community.
My point is you can't complain about ads when you are either using adblock or you are ok with ads to the point of not using adblocker.
That's a contradiction.

Nice job assuming my position, isn't that perhaps some kind of fallacy? hmmmm...

fair enouth if you think that. My point was made by looking at Holo's speech and though on what one of the goal of MD is and what MD is: an aggregator without ads
then checking what you guys thought of it and how it's not about how some advertise mangadex: an aggregator like batoto who try to be close and nice to the aggregator because you couldn't care less. as a reader, you just want to read.
Some mention the reader who is able to be tuned by the user to read manga or manhua. but many other are just about the ads free experience.

But that's why, again: the ad free stuff is not a valid argument and can never be when you have the option to get ad free experience anywhere.

Some sites are unsusable if you have it enabled and that's probably the future.

well... good for you to have thoses website clearly stating that they are not for you who dislike ads ?

back to the @DaoFox speech about virus/trojan, woudl you disable your protection against virus if more and more site would ask you to disable it? would you play a game that say "oh well you have to disable your antivirus and firewall to play"?

You know that you can have adblock enabled and still see some ads? Right? That's how i'm using it so it's not making ads irrelevant. Same way having virus protection doesn't give you virus immunity. There are viruses that will infect your device anyway, not many but they exist.

if you are bothered by it you can always use a better adblocker and just manually target the ad and block it so that everytime you go back to that said website: the add won't be shown. (works both ways btw)
And of course the same apply to virus in its own way.
Because in both cases: any protection is reactive.

Ads in no way are irrelevant thanks to adblockers, ads are getting more agressive thanks to ppl using adblockers. Just 'cause i don't suffer or see anyone suffer from some disease doesn't prevent me getting it next week. I don't get your logic.

well that's my line, please explain more how do you compare ads to disease? if you want to push it, we did eradicated some disease (Smallpox IIRC) but still your comparaison is kind of hard to follow... there are too many distrupting factor...

Ppl can pay taxes and be against taxation.

you don't have a choice. unless you are ready to willingly lose stuff. and more ofte than not: people prefer paying taxe than giving everything to someone else and claim they own nothing to not be solvable even in court when they have to pay a fine.

With ads you do have a choice.

Ppl are not saying that. There are ppl that fear melawear and there are ppl that argue that scanlators shouldn't do it for cash. I haven't seen anyone merging those two separate arguments into one just like you did. Your take is dishonest or you are missing what ppl are trying to say.

how about you read solo leveling chapter 0, the thread about them leaving, or the thread response from Holo. i saw many comment saying falsely that JB use bitcoin miner script on their website.

(just check solo leveling comment section but it will take a while but as @DaoFox said: "Learn more." just lurk in thoses comment section it's absolute chaos is slandering of thoses who left everywhere)

What i was trying to say is that most ppl don't care. They will use the most convenient place even if it hurts industry/company whose products/services they are buying/using.

I completly understand that, and i agree. i use to read on mangafox alone for years, until something finaly sparked in my head and realise many fo the series i was watching was from the same team (game of scanlation at 1st, then easy going, then meriaki, then LHtranslation, then champion scan, etc...) and so i styarted using their website and/or discord if they did not (at the beginning nobody had one.
through their discord i learn about Mangadex because some linked their chapter here while their website were down.

For me MD was just another aggregator. I did not use batoto because i found it more anoying to use for the little "it's uploaded there 1st!" even to this day mangafox seems more easy to use than MD (no need to create an account and give your email adress to do the most basic thing: filter language and use the search tool).
Some treaded MD are the next batoto, a website nice to the scanlator etc and some adversise the website as that.

but when you see the debacle when scanlator use one of the core rule as if it was here just for show, to give them face .. it's obvious that just like any aggregator: MD do nto care about scanlator.
It's a Free for all if it's not posted here. Just like any other aggregator.
Hell, they even accept raw paterial with HUGE watermark on them if it mean having the chapter on their platform... so ..


so i guess all of that. My idea simply was to make everyone win by giving seamingly the same reading experience for the user. and achieving the goal of every party involved to trully have: One website for scanlation . people tend to say that only MD reader is worthy. that scanlator's reader is bad.
Well, i disagree (althought like i said before: i am not picky,give me the option to use page style or list for manhua and i am good). Many scanlation group tend to cover similar mangas. (thus the reason why i ended up checking their website) and so i don't think thoses scanlator would put up a bad reader just for laugh.

But i get the issue with redirecting to the scanlator's reader... but i think that would be a really small concession.

i mean; ANY and i say ANY scanlator reader is better than non MD aggregator ... so ..

Some misinformed and some trolling teenagers typing hot takes on the internet. You may disagree but i would say you should check the demografics. MD is trying to combat the misinformation 'round the recent drama.

fair enouth, but that's the reason why they left isn't it? who would like to post their work on a website were part of the community is ready to hate on them at the smallest problem? (i never saw that on any other aggregator) thoses comment are not moderated.

Like i said above: even the staff of MD take part in this by edditing some post and adding lines that create drama (cf: the kiss manga stuff)

Both bato.to had and MD mostly have good relationship with the scanlators

not as to use friend analogy. I don't think MD have "good relationship" with scanlators simply because they have no respect for them if they leave.
it's normal , it's business. but then isn't it a strech to speaking about good relationship when it's just business?
i don't know, when someone speak about relationship even if it's small: it imply something out of work/business courtesy/etiquette since such thing distort the reality of things.🤔

While doing so they used the out of context discord messeges and the fact known to everyone who used this discord server to create drama.

well, not that much but let's not talk about drama here, even moreso when i am sure you can recover the full logs somewhere.

This is suppose to be a discussion about the idea of making MD more than just an aggregator that apparenbtly just want to do and accept everything (cf whatermarks) to have the most complete library .


@kaza_hesto

they are not user friendly.
Also my idea is not about that. MD would still have it's reader for anyone who do not have a website or simply: who with to post on mangadex and avoid server fee.


oh and BTW @DaoFox

which is why its ridiculous that Ashgur was demanding we use them.

i DID NOT sugested or demanded (quote me if you want) that you use them.
I said that THOSES who are so affraid or paranoid about it: WOULD BE USING THEM.

 

[LowSanity]

@Ashgur
My analogies are quite bad so let's try to not use them.


Let's just say that MD is 'nother aggregator site. The conversation 'bout changing the site need to happen between MD and Scanlators.