36 - Ch. 26 - Our Mistake

[MangaDex]

 

[zingzangen]

I still wonder why did Anzu’s parents get seperated . I hope we get to see the father meeting Anzu later, atleast near the end.

 

[DMan_chine]

Cursed her daughter to a life politicking and lies. A life full of being someone she isn't for something she doesn't want, for someone that isn't her nor wants the best for her. A cursed past from mother to mother. Is she also cursed to become unhappy and full of hate? To be abandoned by the people she grew up and decided to trust, and maybe one day die by her own hand, lonely? To beget another poor soul she will curse too and leave behind to carry the family tradition of bringing misery and solitude?

When does the cycle end?

 

[skywardgem]

world's most heartbreaking usage of "You're not alone."

mentioned some chapters ago but this one makes it hurt even more that Yui wanted to give Anzu the band as an Out if she took it. Very few people probably actually deserve to be alone but it must be horrifying to witness and fully recognize that the cycle repeating live right in front of you... I really, Really, want to see Yui attend one of Anzu's shows at some point......

thanks for the chapter! Wonderful work as always

 

[sirmidor]

I hate when "trigger warnings" are added that were never in the original work and that diminish the emotional impact of moments in the chapter. Putting story spoilers in pre-chapter pages would be viewed extremely negatively, but triggers warnings are a lesser evil from the same family: Story spoilers rob you of the surprise and impact of story developments, trigger warnings rob you of the surprise and impact of story elements.

I'm grateful you're willing to invest your knowledge and time to make this story available to people that can't read Japanese, but please don't spoil anything about the chapter contents before the chapter, let people just read the chapter themselves.

 

[UdenEmpati]

I hate when "trigger warnings" are added that were never in the original work and that diminish the emotional impact of moments in the chapter. Putting story spoilers in pre-chapter pages would be viewed extremely negatively, but triggers warnings are a lesser evil from the same family: Story spoilers rob you of the surprise and impact of story developments, trigger warnings rob you of the surprise and impact of story elements.

I'm grateful you're willing to invest your knowledge and time to make this story available to people that can't read Japanese, but please don't spoil anything about the chapter contents before the chapter, let people just read the chapter themselves.

trigger/content warnings are for readers who will have actual adverse psychological/physiological reactions to certain subject matter even in a fictional setting. They're literally "triggers" as defined by psychology when it comes to trauma events in peoples' lives.

they're absolutely not the same thing as actual plot spoilers. It's great that you've lived a life where running into something like gore, or SA material or the like won't cause psychological distress in you if you're not aware of it being on the next page/around the corner, but that just means the content warning isn't for you. It doesn't actually give away anything narrative-wise in the story, either, so I'd argue it's not really "ruining a surprise" or anything of that sort.

 

[sirmidor]

[paraphrasing: triggers exist]

In psychological theory they do, but that has nothing to do with the common usage like here, where it's merely an exaggeration of a negative response to something you don't like. That does not justify slightly lessening the reading experience of the vast majority.

they're absolutely not the same thing as actual plot spoilers. [...] It doesn't actually give away anything narrative-wise in the story, either, so I'd argue it's not really "ruining a surprise" or anything of that sort.

Do not strawman. I neither stated they were identical to plot spoilers nor that they gave away narrative details, I said they spoil something about a chapter's content, which they do. In that sense, similar to plot spoilers, they give away information about what's coming up. If you want to spoil a chapter, in ways big or small, do it somewhere else than a page that everyone sees when reading the chapter, so that it's optional.

 

[Aero9]

In psychological theory they do, but that has nothing to do with the common usage like here, where it's merely an exaggeration of a negative response to something you don't like. That does not justify slightly lessening the reading experience of the vast majority.

The discomfort a reader might have from coming across graphic content that they wouldn't have known about otherwise is more important then the discomfort of a reader who was slightly spoiled by a single warning. Good stories will carry themselves just fine even if you know what's going to happen.

 

[Doorn]

In psychological theory they do, but that has nothing to do with the common usage like here, where it's merely an exaggeration of a negative response to something you don't like. That does not justify slightly lessening the reading experience of the vast majority.

Do not strawman. I neither stated they were identical to plot spoilers nor that they gave away narrative details, I said they spoil something about a chapter's content, which they do. In that sense, similar to plot spoilers, they give away information about what's coming up. If you want to spoil a chapter, in ways big or small, do it somewhere else than a page that everyone sees when reading the chapter, so that it's optional.

You're a big boy, you can handle a little spoiler and go about the rest of your day fine.

The people who trigger warnings are made for, however, would likely not, even potentially being a risk factor for them, so I would, and I'm sure most others would so too, think that the safety of those people take extreme precedence over your enjoyment.

 

[sirmidor]

You're a big boy, you can handle a little spoiler and go about the rest of your day fine.

You're a big boy, you can handle a little black-and-white cartoon gore, that non-argument goes both ways. There is no 'safety' involved, you imply a group that does not exist (feel free to link the news articles of the masses of Japanese readers harmed and endangered by this chapter, since there was no 'trigger warning' after all).

There can be people that dislike cartoon gore (or anything else), that's fine, but that shouldn't negatively affect anyone else's reading experience. I could be deathly afraid of jesters betraying kings, doesn't make it reasonable to demand media report such occurrences for my benefit (and spoiling everyone else).

The discomfort a reader might have from coming across graphic content that they wouldn't have known about otherwise is more important then the discomfort of a reader who was slightly spoiled by a single warning. Good stories will carry themselves just fine even if you know what's going to happen.

The second sentence is irrelevant, since no one said otherwise. The first is absurd, if you read a story and feel discomfort, that's for you to deal with. The work is never at fault and should not be changed or spoiled because of your subjective tastes. Not only does the discomfort of the many outweigh the discomfort of the few, the discomfort of the many is rooted in something added that was never in the original work and shouldn't appear in a translation as a result.

 

[randomuser_7789]

I hate when "trigger warnings" are added that were never in the original work and that diminish the emotional impact of moments in the chapter. Putting story spoilers in pre-chapter pages would be viewed extremely negatively, but triggers warnings are a lesser evil from the same family: Story spoilers rob you of the surprise and impact of story developments, trigger warnings rob you of the surprise and impact of story elements.

I'm grateful you're willing to invest your knowledge and time to make this story available to people that can't read Japanese, but please don't spoil anything about the chapter contents before the chapter, let people just read the chapter themselves.

This is such an ignorant take that I am genuinely baffled someone actually wrote it out and pressed send. Like what you, an edgy kid? If you don't know why trigger warnings are useful, then use the exact same device you used to type this nonsense to search why.

Also, not only is this post weird, saying that to someone scanlating for free is beyond insanity. They didn't spoil, they didn't add their own interpretation, they didn't drop a low quality scan, they just put a trigger warning... and you're bitching, just wow. TW's are like the most non-issue thing ever, you decided to make a non-issue into an issue.
What's worse is this is a translation, so many liberties are already taken so you can understand the story, but this is where you draw the line... it would be funny if it wasn't so disrespectful to the scanlators. I'm sure you'll reply but idrc, this is all I'm saying regarding this and also, grow up.

 

[heccingisconfused]

This is such an ignorant take that I am genuinely baffled someone actually wrote it out and pressed send. Like what you, an edgy kid? If you don't know why trigger warnings are useful, then use the exact same device you used to type this nonsense to search why.

Also, not only is this post weird, saying that to someone scanlating for free is beyond insanity. They didn't spoil, they didn't add their own interpretation, they didn't drop a low quality scan, they just put a trigger warning... and you're bitching, just wow. TW's are like the most non-issue thing ever, you decided to make a non-issue into an issue.
What's worse is this is a translation, so many liberties are already taken so you can understand the story, but this is where you draw the line... it would be funny if it wasn't so disrespectful to the scanlators. I'm sure you'll reply but idrc, this is all I'm saying regarding this and also, grow up.

"Go look it up" isn't a valid argument against a point, you're just delegating your argument to someone else.

If you are going to say the scantalator did not spoil it with the trigger warnings, you have to give a logical explanation as to why the poster's equivalence that he stated is false.

The poster stated that his main issues with the trigger warnings were that they were added, not part of the original work, and ignoring that to say "they just put a trigger warning" is not addressing that but just minimizing what he thinks is the issue, you aren't making an argument by calling it a "non-issue thing" is just dismissing the argument without showing a logical reason.

I have a feeling you already get that this isn't a valid argument, as the liberties taken to make a story understandable for an audience are not the same as those additive to an original work.

Finally, saying you don't care for a reply to an argument really just means you don't care enough for anyone to take your points seriously, that and the personal insult at the end that is, so for anyone reading this make sure to watch out for making bad faith points when you're in an argument, no one likes them and they don't reflect nicely on you.

 

[DMan_chine]

You're a big boy, you can handle a little black-and-white cartoon gore

Sorry, I am not a big boy. I am a little boy and I get really hurt and sad and scared when things happen (gore) in a black and white cartoon. Please, be mindful of my inferiority. As a big boy, I hope that you can help out the little boys like us.

 

[Aero9]

The second sentence is irrelevant, since no one said otherwise.

The second sentence is a response to this one:

That does not justify slightly lessening the reading experience of the vast majority.

My point is that a well crafted story will not have its experience "lessened" by a vague spoiler.

The first is absurd, if you read a story and feel discomfort, that's for you to deal with. The work is never at fault and should not be changed or spoiled because of your subjective tastes.

The story has already been changed by virtue of being a fanmade translation. If changing the story in any way actually bothers you that much, you can support the mangaka and buy and read it in its orignal language.

Your statement about discomfort is also ironic, considering what you say directly afterwards:

Not only does the discomfort of the many outweigh the discomfort of the few, the discomfort of the many is rooted in something added that was never in the original work and shouldn't appear in a translation as a result.

So what makes your discomfort about spoilers something you don't have to deal with? You keep saying that you're opinion is that of the majority. But besides the fact that you are the only person who's bothered enough to complain about content warnings in this thread, I'm not convinced that being in the majority is a good reason to have your discomfort prioritized over others.

For the record, I think it's fine for you to criticize and object to how a TL is done. But I don't agree with the argument you're using to entitle what is ultimately your personal preference.

 

[rmrs]

I hate when "trigger warnings" are added that were never in the original work and that diminish the emotional impact of moments in the chapter.

Then just hit Next Page as soon as you see the Naruto(?) dude, you don't need to read the text under it.

They've done this at least once in the manga so it shouldn't be a surprise to you. If you can ignore the trailers in a movie theater (I get where you're coming from, I don't watch trailers for movies I'm actually looking forward to), I'm sure you can press "next" on a page that even a cursory glance would reveal is not actually part of the manga.

 

[sirmidor]

The second sentence is a response to this one:

I did not claim a story 'cannot carry itself' once spoiled, I said it was lessened. If you are making the claim that a good (leaving criteria for that aside) story is not lessened by spoilers, I cannot agree, I believe any reader's experience of a story (good or bad) is harmed by spoiling it. Some spoilers are much more impactful than others (I remember when people grew frustrated even with 'anti-spoilers' like 'character X won't die on the next episode of Game of Thrones'), but all by definition spoil something for the reader (/watcher/etc.).

The story has already been changed by virtue of being a fanmade translation. If changing the story in any way actually bothers you that much, you can support the mangaka and buy and read it in its orignal language.

We can also remove all the speech bubbles or replace all text with fanfiction and say 'It's just a change, if it bothers you, go learn Japanese'. To me that's not convincing: Just because a perfect conveyance of a story in a different language isn't possible, doesn't mean anything goes and it doesn't mean we shouldn't strive to be faithful. Some changes are necessary for translation, but this is not one of them.

Your statement about discomfort is also ironic, considering what you say directly afterwards:

So what makes your discomfort about spoilers something you don't have to deal with?

I used the term 'discomfort' that you brought up to better engage your own argument about whose needs should be prioritized. You claimed it was the needs of the few without further elaboration (see below why I consider it valid to assert it's 'the few'). Your question right after is something I previously answered: Because the original chapter did not have it. The spoilers were added, rather than being part of the work itself. That distinction is important to my argument.

You keep saying that you're opinion is that of the majority. But besides the fact that you are the only person who's bothered enough to complain about content warnings in this thread, I'm not convinced that being in the majority is a good reason to have your discomfort prioritized over others.

I have used that term in a single sentence: "That does not justify slightly lessening the reading experience of the vast majority.". Unless you believe the majority of readers needs 'trigger warnings' (considering the actual incidence of psychological triggers that's exceedingly unlikely), the majority would be getting slightly spoiled with no benefit to them since they don't need the 'trigger warnings'.

For the record, I think it's fine for you to criticize and object to how a TL is done. But I don't agree with the argument you're using to entitle what is ultimately your personal preference.

I appreciate you saying that, you've been very cordial and I respect that. The core of my (ultimately subjective) argument is that I personally do not believe translations should alter either the content itself in unnecessary ways (e.g. censorship, adding meanings that weren't there) or frame the content (e.g. a book intro telling you the ideas expressed within are vile and outdated, trigger warnings), but to just let people experience it faithfully. If that means sometimes coming into contact with content you dislike, so be it, I personally value the integrity of the artistic expression much more than sensibilities of subsets of readers.

I'll have to bow out here, sorry, but I think we've both elaborated our views by now. I was already banned for a few days, presumably for comments in this thread (though I was never presented a concrete ban reason it was the only thread I was active in at the time), so don't want to risk much more, but I wanted to repay the effort you put into your comment, thank you.

 

[Luke_chase]

Ok this manga 100% deserved CWs, idk what you’re on about. I’ve seen them used in questionable places before (which I still interpret as well intentioned by the translator) but of all places complaining about them in a story like this?

 

[someone2795]

Getting shocked that her daughter is morphing into her, Anzu's mom is indeed a real nasty, twisted piece of work. She's like pebbles stuck under your skin and grinding against your bones every time you try to move.

And bro still fell in love with that (💀) so Yui did get another chance to fix herself too but botched that too.
Chapter is titled "Our Mistake" just to throw more gasoline into this dumpsterfire of a character.