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Hmm MC leaving this city so soon, feel like author could have done more with a brand new location. Unless the author only wanted us to think he was leaving
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@givemersspls Yeah, it wouldn't be a bad/greedy thing to ask for more, however they didn't ask. They demanded more or they would refuse to trade. That is not asking, nor is it negotiating. And if you looked at the images in the previous chapter, they apparently blocked people, who were willing to trade, from being able to trade. It's one thing if you yourself want more in exchange, but blocking someone else, whose family is starving (as the person himself said, though I'm not 100% sure if he was referring to himself, his family or just the people in general), from being able to trade, is a bad and greedy thing to do. If that persons family ends up starving to death, their death is on the hands of those people, who blocked him from trading.
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@givemersspls Value depends on rarity and usability. For the people of plateau those stones had no value as they were very common and useless. Rice was food that only the rich people could eat there. So his trade of poisonous trash rocks for deluxe food is more than being generous when he could have easily picked up the stones himself.
I'm talking about "ordinary citizens without cultivation can collect" kinda easy.
I'm talking about "ordinary citizens without cultivation can collect" kinda easy.
@givemersspls, the first post huh? Even go as far as to blame the author, LOL.
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"i pity this stupidity"
@givemersspls lul perfect might be a bit much. As for opposition its more that his "goodness" means he is in the right whenever he is opposed. So unless he loses or does something "evil" there really isn't any reason he would be painted another way. I mean his current goals line up perfectly with being the good guy so given the stories setting it only makes sense for this to be how it goes, atleast in the beginning.
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@givemersspls You have an interesting sense of perfection. He has not been depicted as any Buddha or Jesus. He's been depicted as a person who knows the future and is following a reasonably strong way to change that future. He's helping his friends to become stronger to be able to fight in the future and he was being a total scumbag to those he knew to be traitors in the future (like, it never even visited his mind to try to convert them, like some usual sanctimonious shounen hero would have). However, he also made himself a millionaire because money is might and might makes right. He has sympathy towards those who helped him in his previous past future, so it's merely paying back the favour (he's still the same soul), not philanthropy, and it's perfectly natural. What comes to his practical deeds in general, it's easy for him since he's like an educated adult in the world of gullible children with his knowledge and experience.
Now that's a good decision. If you lower yourself to greedy or crazy people, eventually they will want more and soon you'll be left with nothing while the greedy or crazy people get everything. Appeasing insane people with their insanity would only result in more insanity.
Today's society could learn a thing or two.
Today's society could learn a thing or two.
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@givemersspls Let the guys have their opinions! If you were starving and could exchange a bunch of stones, worthless to you, for sacks of rice, you'd also be praising the person. Unless you were a labour union boss and thus thought Nie Li is a dirty capitalist swine for not sharing all of his food for free. When you look at the whole situation, it was a perfect seller's market in Nie Li's favour. Nobody else selling quality food around. Yet he still set a very, very reasonable price. Like was stated, he could have asked for far more. As it was, it was practically disaster relief. Well, even in real life there are situations where some disaster victims are lamenting the foreign aid given isn't enough, even if most would be thankful. And then there are situations where some local bastards rob the aid and sell it for profit... That's just how it goes.
Yeah, people not complaining about traitors being rooted out, once and for all. Maybe they had no SJWs among them.
Yeah, people not complaining about traitors being rooted out, once and for all. Maybe they had no SJWs among them.
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@givemersspls Your whole argument is predicated on the notion that they are "negotiating," and you've been providing evidence to support that claim. This notion is possibly arguable, but only in the loosest sense of the word "negotiating," and certainly not in a context wherein you could reasonably say that what it evolved into is merely a trade. I say loosest because while it could be conceived as a "trade tactic," in this scenario the crowd in question who want more is ostensibly attempting to threaten and blackmail Nie Li. To simply dismiss the whole matter as mere negotiation with them being "loud and emotional" about it is disingenuous.
On the point of the "person dying" thing that @Silkalahna made, while there may just be one person saying something in the manhua, one can cross-reference it with the novel and see that there're actually a group of people being made unable to exchange with Nie Li:
"“Purple Smoke Rock is definitely a priceless treasure in Glory City, but he is only giving us a bag of meat in exchange. We want to him exchange for more rice and meat!”
“Yeah, exchange for more!”
These people were blocking some of the others from exchanging with Nie Li.
“We’re all about to die from hunger, are you still letting us live?” some of [these] people were still determined to exchange with Nie Li."
It's pretty clear that the sub-group of the crowd demanding more is some serious greed. The logical progression goes: Nie Li offers up this trade and people come flocking over; some people mistakenly begin to want more, despite the foodstuffs Nie Li giving out being literally something only the rich in their impoverished society can afford; Nie Li closes up trade; these same people then begin to ask him to trade, but this time at the regular price. This is pretty much the definition of avarice, and said sub-group very clearly demonstrates it.
You could argue that they did have reason to assume that it was a "priceless treasure" in Glory City based off of how little Nie Li was giving them compared to how much he described the city to output in terms of commodities (even going so far as to say meat is left to rot), but this can be canceled out by the fact that he described himself as relatively low on the totem pole in terms of spiritualist ranking, and as such might not have had much wealth to begin with, as well as the fact that he stated prior to beginning trading that he only had a limited amount of rice.
Characterizing the whole interaction with Nie Li and the villagers as a simple trade deal that one side got slightly emotional about willfully ignores the underlying malice and selfish desire that the latter group had. They clearly had an agenda to get more food, yes, but that agenda was motivated by greed, leading to straight-up blackmail, blocking would-be traders in a scenario where, because of the perilousness of the food situation and danger of obtaining it, this could very well be life-and-death.
On the point of the "person dying" thing that @Silkalahna made, while there may just be one person saying something in the manhua, one can cross-reference it with the novel and see that there're actually a group of people being made unable to exchange with Nie Li:
"“Purple Smoke Rock is definitely a priceless treasure in Glory City, but he is only giving us a bag of meat in exchange. We want to him exchange for more rice and meat!”
“Yeah, exchange for more!”
These people were blocking some of the others from exchanging with Nie Li.
“We’re all about to die from hunger, are you still letting us live?” some of [these] people were still determined to exchange with Nie Li."
It's pretty clear that the sub-group of the crowd demanding more is some serious greed. The logical progression goes: Nie Li offers up this trade and people come flocking over; some people mistakenly begin to want more, despite the foodstuffs Nie Li giving out being literally something only the rich in their impoverished society can afford; Nie Li closes up trade; these same people then begin to ask him to trade, but this time at the regular price. This is pretty much the definition of avarice, and said sub-group very clearly demonstrates it.
You could argue that they did have reason to assume that it was a "priceless treasure" in Glory City based off of how little Nie Li was giving them compared to how much he described the city to output in terms of commodities (even going so far as to say meat is left to rot), but this can be canceled out by the fact that he described himself as relatively low on the totem pole in terms of spiritualist ranking, and as such might not have had much wealth to begin with, as well as the fact that he stated prior to beginning trading that he only had a limited amount of rice.
Characterizing the whole interaction with Nie Li and the villagers as a simple trade deal that one side got slightly emotional about willfully ignores the underlying malice and selfish desire that the latter group had. They clearly had an agenda to get more food, yes, but that agenda was motivated by greed, leading to straight-up blackmail, blocking would-be traders in a scenario where, because of the perilousness of the food situation and danger of obtaining it, this could very well be life-and-death.
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@givemersspls I have far less against labour unions themselves than labour union bosses and their politics. I don't know about the situation in your parts, but over here the trade union bosses make as much money as the execs in a decently sized company. Not to mention they have office buildings just as fabulous as their "opponents", the employer side. Furthermore, their way of affecting the domestic politics of the whole country is every bit as sinister as the corporation side's already shameless lobbying. Most tragicly of all, they only ever cared about their employed members' wages rising, even if the raise was funded by laying off people, meaning some people got more, while some didn't get anything anymore. That's just insane, but that's how it went over here. So, yeah, while I respect the trade unions changed the world for the better 100 years ago, these days they are just as rotten as the corporations they are trying to fight. But if everybody's rotten, I guess that the new norm.
They can try to negotiate all they want, but there's just a single seller already offering a jolly good price. The fact the people are starving is their own problem. Would it be reasonable to expect a total outsider to solve all of their problems? He already gave them the bloody instructions for moving to a better place. They haven't got a single speck of pride if they think they are in a position to demand more. They can try, but if they are refused, that's it.
I'm not talking about morals or ethics here with the traitors' treatment. I'm talking about how people view it and how they reacted to it, and thus how the story would depict it. These are folks living under a constant threat of being annihilated by the monster hordes. If they find out one of the big families had grown fat by being traitorous, you can bet 9 people out of 10 would be only cheering when they heard the traitors' clan was completely eradicated. The remaining one person would likely have personal reasons for doubts, like ruined business or perhaps a love interest in the traitorous clan.
They can try to negotiate all they want, but there's just a single seller already offering a jolly good price. The fact the people are starving is their own problem. Would it be reasonable to expect a total outsider to solve all of their problems? He already gave them the bloody instructions for moving to a better place. They haven't got a single speck of pride if they think they are in a position to demand more. They can try, but if they are refused, that's it.
I'm not talking about morals or ethics here with the traitors' treatment. I'm talking about how people view it and how they reacted to it, and thus how the story would depict it. These are folks living under a constant threat of being annihilated by the monster hordes. If they find out one of the big families had grown fat by being traitorous, you can bet 9 people out of 10 would be only cheering when they heard the traitors' clan was completely eradicated. The remaining one person would likely have personal reasons for doubts, like ruined business or perhaps a love interest in the traitorous clan.
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Now that MC stops trading, go and cook those useless rocks 😂
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Why are there two chapters 218?
They also seem to me identical.
Was it a mistake or was it done on purpose? 😅
They also seem to me identical.
Was it a mistake or was it done on purpose? 😅
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@givemersspls
What the villagers should have done is recognize Nie Li set the price mostly out of pity rather than a desire to make the most out of the trade, and appeal to that pity if they wanted more, rather than antagonize him.
What the villagers should have done is recognize Nie Li set the price mostly out of pity rather than a desire to make the most out of the trade, and appeal to that pity if they wanted more, rather than antagonize him.
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@givemersspls The situation was: "What, you want a bunch of worthless (to us) rocks in exchange for delicious rice so that we don't need to eat only tree bark?" That's the baseline. Sure, they can ask for more, but they should also be prepared for the consequences if their demands result in consequences. It's like they also forgot that Nie Li had come from far away, even though they themselves never dare to venture too far from the plateau in fear of the beasts. They refuse to see any particular worth in Nie Li's offerings or the risk he undertook, they only think of how to maximise their own profits.
Besides, how about you switch the sides? What if it's Nie Li buying rocks, not villagers buying rice? There were dozens of villagers offering rocks, only one person buying them. You'd think Nie Li had absolutely no need to heed anyone trying to raise the price of his rocks, when there were far more offering rocks at the original price. It would be quite clear who's the greedy one.
Besides, how about you switch the sides? What if it's Nie Li buying rocks, not villagers buying rice? There were dozens of villagers offering rocks, only one person buying them. You'd think Nie Li had absolutely no need to heed anyone trying to raise the price of his rocks, when there were far more offering rocks at the original price. It would be quite clear who's the greedy one.
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@givemersspls It is chapter 191. If you'd like to see more, you can ctrl + f a portion of what I pasted.
One crux of your argument boils down to the belief that the villagers are reasonable are for the most part peacefully, partially rowdily, negotiating to attempt to get a perceived fairer deal, not out of greediness or avarice because you believe that it's reasonable for them to think he might be tricking them.
I believe I disproved this in my previous post but I will reiterate what I said.
"You know that he has more, and you think that he might be tricking you and the rest of your village into a bad deal?" As I stated prior, I would argue yes, it is unreasonable to them to be more demanding. He has a limited supply and said as much (chapter 190). In addition to this, he spoke of himself as low-ranking in the cultivation hierarchy of Glory City, so it's entirely reasonable for them to assume that he wouldn't have that much wealth; stating that the villagers think that he's tricking them as some sort of concrete fact when it's objectively your opinion is disingenuous.
You're right. It is part of negotiating. Your argument's other crucial aspect, however, is that this is a poor, shallow attempt to again characterize Nie Li as a saint who can do no wrong, and your belief that the villagers were reasonable in their demands is the evidence of that claim. On that aspect there's a whole rabbit hole we could go down about the author trying to paint him as wise rather than generous, with Nie Li being so because he's mentally 500+ (the wiki says 200-300, but I will always dispute that based off of evidence later down the line) to the point where he's wiser than those who are tens of thousands, and in some cases millions years older than him, but that's not something I want to pursue at 5:30 AM.
The fact that there's blackmail by this one previously defined sub-group, as previously stated, underscores their greed and selfishness. It is not greed in the way that you are saying where it is perfectly reasonable to have those motivations, where I'm assuming you were implying they had said avarice because they wanted to survive or not starve. No, the reason each and every one of them wanted as much rice for themselves respectively as they could have, a commodity that let me remind you "only a small percentage of the aristocracy can afford a single bag" of (also chapter 190), is to increase their social standing and power within the village, even if it meant screwing over those who hadn't traded and might still need the food.
On the threatening angle, blackmail is the definition of a threat (also a negotiation tactic). If we're going at it from what you thought I meant, the whole intimidation standpoint/aspect of threatening, one guy literally lifted up one shirt sleeve and flashed his arm like he was about to punch Nie Li. Not only is this a threat, but it also disproves that "they all know that they cannot touch him as he is more powerful".
Also, this is purely speculation as I didn't read much of the last thread, but the fact that a group was being pushed away inadvertently or on purpose might ruin the collective bargaining aspect of your argument. Feel free to correct me on that if you so desire.
Final point, then this is wrapped up. A lot of what you said to @Kaarme is false. What I am about to refute is based on author expectations for the reader, not what a villager would think; that portion of the argument is irrelevant right now.
First part isn't your fault as you've already established you don't read the light novel, but Nie Li did not immediately cease trade; it's stated he continued "a while" after they attempted to blackmail him at the end of chapter 191. The history point and subsequent question of "should the people think its one of those cases when a stranger walks up to them" is irrelevant because this is a society that has been isolated for tens of thousands of years and until this point believed themselves to be the only bastion of human civilization, as such having no cases of the like to analyze.
To state that the author "wants you to fall into" a trap implies some malicious intent, where perhaps the author is like "heh, I'm going to give the reader a totally misconceived notion about how good a person Nie Li is before completely demonizing him later" when that's really not the case. You're correct in that @Kaarme is wrong in comparing this to humanitarian aid, but by extension you also imply that the author wants you to believe that he's a saint. As the "another poster" you spoke of in the last chapter's comments, I can indeed verify that he does benefit from this, but as I also stated the caveat is that this is not some fair deal between the two parties. Nie Li is mainly doing this not out of the goodness of his heart as @Kaarme mistook it, but to show favor to those who helped him and his companions in his previous life.
No idea where he got that "traitor" thing from though.
One crux of your argument boils down to the belief that the villagers are reasonable are for the most part peacefully, partially rowdily, negotiating to attempt to get a perceived fairer deal, not out of greediness or avarice because you believe that it's reasonable for them to think he might be tricking them.
I believe I disproved this in my previous post but I will reiterate what I said.
"You know that he has more, and you think that he might be tricking you and the rest of your village into a bad deal?" As I stated prior, I would argue yes, it is unreasonable to them to be more demanding. He has a limited supply and said as much (chapter 190). In addition to this, he spoke of himself as low-ranking in the cultivation hierarchy of Glory City, so it's entirely reasonable for them to assume that he wouldn't have that much wealth; stating that the villagers think that he's tricking them as some sort of concrete fact when it's objectively your opinion is disingenuous.
You're right. It is part of negotiating. Your argument's other crucial aspect, however, is that this is a poor, shallow attempt to again characterize Nie Li as a saint who can do no wrong, and your belief that the villagers were reasonable in their demands is the evidence of that claim. On that aspect there's a whole rabbit hole we could go down about the author trying to paint him as wise rather than generous, with Nie Li being so because he's mentally 500+ (the wiki says 200-300, but I will always dispute that based off of evidence later down the line) to the point where he's wiser than those who are tens of thousands, and in some cases millions years older than him, but that's not something I want to pursue at 5:30 AM.
The fact that there's blackmail by this one previously defined sub-group, as previously stated, underscores their greed and selfishness. It is not greed in the way that you are saying where it is perfectly reasonable to have those motivations, where I'm assuming you were implying they had said avarice because they wanted to survive or not starve. No, the reason each and every one of them wanted as much rice for themselves respectively as they could have, a commodity that let me remind you "only a small percentage of the aristocracy can afford a single bag" of (also chapter 190), is to increase their social standing and power within the village, even if it meant screwing over those who hadn't traded and might still need the food.
On the threatening angle, blackmail is the definition of a threat (also a negotiation tactic). If we're going at it from what you thought I meant, the whole intimidation standpoint/aspect of threatening, one guy literally lifted up one shirt sleeve and flashed his arm like he was about to punch Nie Li. Not only is this a threat, but it also disproves that "they all know that they cannot touch him as he is more powerful".
Also, this is purely speculation as I didn't read much of the last thread, but the fact that a group was being pushed away inadvertently or on purpose might ruin the collective bargaining aspect of your argument. Feel free to correct me on that if you so desire.
Final point, then this is wrapped up. A lot of what you said to @Kaarme is false. What I am about to refute is based on author expectations for the reader, not what a villager would think; that portion of the argument is irrelevant right now.
First part isn't your fault as you've already established you don't read the light novel, but Nie Li did not immediately cease trade; it's stated he continued "a while" after they attempted to blackmail him at the end of chapter 191. The history point and subsequent question of "should the people think its one of those cases when a stranger walks up to them" is irrelevant because this is a society that has been isolated for tens of thousands of years and until this point believed themselves to be the only bastion of human civilization, as such having no cases of the like to analyze.
To state that the author "wants you to fall into" a trap implies some malicious intent, where perhaps the author is like "heh, I'm going to give the reader a totally misconceived notion about how good a person Nie Li is before completely demonizing him later" when that's really not the case. You're correct in that @Kaarme is wrong in comparing this to humanitarian aid, but by extension you also imply that the author wants you to believe that he's a saint. As the "another poster" you spoke of in the last chapter's comments, I can indeed verify that he does benefit from this, but as I also stated the caveat is that this is not some fair deal between the two parties. Nie Li is mainly doing this not out of the goodness of his heart as @Kaarme mistook it, but to show favor to those who helped him and his companions in his previous life.
No idea where he got that "traitor" thing from though.
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