Proudful refers to being full of pride in one's accomplishments [eg, She was proud of her accomplishments == Her accomplishments left her filled with pride == Her accomplishments left her proudful], whereas Prideful refers to being filled with an arrogant, haughty, and/or snobbish demeanor (based in feeling excessive pride in one's self or status) [eg, Though she had many accomplishments, her prideful demeanor left her with few friends].
By the context [a reference Princess Alicia's proud demeanor, rather than to her sense of self-satisfaction and/or self-fulfillment], we can clearly infer that Beatrice's intent must be Prideful, even before she explicitly makes mention of arrogance.
@akisame@ohkimch@KarrotKakes@Mirai-chan as I [get] older I [become] more and more horrified with [assholes] who [are] verbally abusive. That’s...that’s the male lead? We’re supposed to like him? When his men are the type to cheer at the prospect of sexual assault? When he deliberately unclothes a woman to make her vulnerable before killing her? I’m...disgusted. Yeah, 100%. Dude's a total shitbag. Kinda disappointed the main guy is such an awful person. I really don't want to see any romance plot between the princess and him.
Right there with you all..
Bright side, hey. At least he's not the rapist asshole from The Abandoned Empress,
that purportedly the author intends the protag to get together with, following her time travel rebirth
.
I mean, it's a thin line, but that still seems worse. At least this guy is "only" a mentally unstable psycopath, the guy in Abandoned Empress actually got his jollies off with what he was doing
Nevermind that it was with his ever-supportive wife who, regardless of the fact that he never got close to her due to his overwhelming inferiority complex, was someone he had an long-standing relationship and established commitment and responsibility to (on top of the fact that her dedicated efforts were damn good for his empire's health). I mean, infinity + 100 is still infinity, so it's not technically worse by that context, but it definitely adds to the sleeziness of the matter.
@TrapCard113 It's pretty common in shoujo and josei manga/manhua/manhwa with a frail, floor mat female lead to fall in love with the first abusive bastard that she encounters.
In fairness, it's still fairly rare in isekais, outside of certain historical narratives, and I'd argue it's about as common in non-isekai versions of those as it is in isekai versions.
Well, regardless of whether it's an issue in isekais specifically or not, in a broader context, it's definitely a disturbing trend. At the very least, I'd like to see more wholesome narratives out there to counterbalance such stories..
@MothYeah, I don't understand why recently so many manhwa/manhua/manga are keen on glorifying toxic and abusive relationship and romanticizing relationships with these psychopaths.
Well, 50 Shades was strangely popular, despite being one of the most profoundly awful mutilations of the English language, even before you got to any of the actual content the words were intended to detail. And it's hardly the only example in western culture- so we really can't limit it to eastern comics alone. It seems to be this weird global trend.. despite being in an era where acts of terrorism based in bigotry have been spiking, and abuse and corruption by authority has been rampant to new extremes in at least some of the societies targeted by those works. It's.. bizarre.
Then again, I'm also irritated that it's so damn hard to get a non-smutty shounen ai story, given that both the US's often-sex-based LGBT culture and Japan's catering to fujoshis seems to push any narrative with any actual relationship depth out of view. And getting a good shoujo ai story is even harder, somehow, though at least the ones we do get tend to be less.. well, no, okay, recent ones have been pretty darn smutty. And androgyne or asexual or genderfluid or trans love stories? Essentially impossible. Closest I've found have been stories with [genderswap-based] transformation magic.
Basically, regardless of format, it's damn hard getting a romance story these days that isn't overly fixated with S&M [in a distinctly negative, tropey sense], overly sexualized [moreover, typically in a way that doesn't contribute to the plot in a meaningful enough manner to justify itself], cringely manipulative, and/or which have straight-up toxic abuse-based relationship foundations, and it's still way too damn hard to get anything involving a non-standard relationship in any way that'd actually be worth reading (by people looking for romance rather than fetishes, at least).
I mean, by all means, I am more than willing to listen to any recommendations you all may have..
On that note, also feels like I haven't seen a good sports or lifestyle [eg, firefighter, policeman, librarian, other role-based narrative] story in a while, as well.
Bright side, Isekai has been exploding, so that makes up for a lot, especially given the charm of many of them (especially among shoujo works).
..Of course, many of them have faults of their own, between the harem or power fantasy focus of many shounen isekais and, y'know, this kind of thing among shoujos.
@daalldaySpeaking of middle ages, you guys do realize that it's the middle ages right? Do guys think they have the concept of human rights?
The concept of human rights significantly predates medieval time periods, even before you factor in deviations in foundations that may exist in alternative (nevermind fictional) worlds.
Notably: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_of_Hammurabi
They have slaves for God's sake, of course the ML is an asshole.
Not exactly related.
I mean, the majority of humans may be able to behave as assholes with appropriate context, and the existence of slavery does imply the overall government is favorable to abusive behaviors but, beyond that, no correlation between the concepts. Unless you're trying to say everyone who comes out of a country with slavery is an asshole, which is.. a confusing perspective to have.
Anyway, those points aside, the complaints being expressed here in the comments should be based in things such as: That we don't wanna see an abusive relationship, that it's hard for us to identify such an individual as a romantic interest, that it's hard for us to feel a vested interest in a relationship involving him, and that- regardless of whether his behavior can be justified in some manner or not- we don't believe he's good enough for the female MC.
The setting has absolutely no meaningful bearing on those considerations. If one intended to make an argument against such perspectives, such an argument would be based in trying to argue the character's good points, in arguing that the narrative caters to a niche not intended for more wholesome relationship perspectives, or in arguing that the story isn't, in fact, primarily based in developing a romantic narrative [and is more just telling a story tangentially related to romance, kind of like The Scarlet Letter]. Meanwhile, arguing that the setting somehow justifies toxicity to the point where we should find it an appealing part of a relationship.. that doesn't quite work.
@Thoughtgap You. I like you. Feel free to hit me up to discuss bearable recommendations & dissect objectionable content.
Actually, everyone here: @akisame@Moth@mirai-chan@KarrotKakes
My door is always wideee open to those who stay critical of the media they consume. Y’all are so rare. :’)
Also, yeah, The Abandoned Empress was an abominable trainwreck. Who Made me a Princess? is another Korean webtoon with similar art quality, but a much more tolerable narrative/endgame loveline.
Tbh I’ve read more manga of all genres in the past 20+ yrs than any functioning adult should, so. I’d be happy to rec/rant with anyone who’s in need of a commiserating soul. I just don’t read ecchi anymore.
I keep wondering how these people know they died in a hit-and-run? Aren't they dead? I mean, okay, maybe they stayed conscious long enough to see the car that hit them drive off, but somehow that seems unlikely - the shock of being fatally wounded would make it difficult to focus enough to notice much of anything.
@Thoughtgap speaking with a Korean comic artist [going to school for an unrelated day job], I was told that this trend towards "bodice ripper" "romance" is lessening in popularity in Korea after public outcry caused new regulations that instituted strict labeling. Artists (apparently now) are required to make warning labels that they do not "condone" such relationships or behavior, and there's much stricter stuff to prevent "glorification" because of the number of "copycat" behaviors that came about as a result of people copying what they had seen in fiction. Basically, it got relegated to "kink" and the underbelly of fiction (think lemon, lime, etc.). As for Chinese comics, from what I've been able to tell, China (despite efforts by Mao and other communists) still suffers from a "Cult of Purity" similar to what Western cultures and many other societies did and still do suffer from. If we look back to how society viewed the relationships of women in fact throughout history, it wasn't until the 1980s that a husband (under the law, not under Reason/fact) could rape their wife. Husbands had total control over their wives and divorce was quite difficult to obtain. Battery was common and the sorts of behaviors seen in these imported fictions were commonplace. It seems jarring to viewers who aren't accustomed to it, but unfortunately, it's a common trope globally---reinforced by antiquated ideas of femininity that are often imposed by male dominated cultures seeking to retain social structure.
For example, due to a fear of mass exodus, it's very difficult for single (unmarried) women in China to get permission to get a temporary passport (they don't offer universal passports like most of the rest of the world; you get a permit that must be approved in advanced in order to leave China; a specific pass for a specific country, for a specific duration; unless one is an extremely wealthy business woman or are on a school visa, it's exceptionally difficult to get one).
It's not that the society is "backwards", but rather that like in the US with religious groups imposing strict theocratic/sex-negative/cult of purity ideology upon people, there's a culture that feeds on it. Likewise, the stuff seems to be popular much like soap operas were in the US amongst "house wives" or Telenovelas. The content tends to be rather shocking and toxic, but whether that represents the majority of the comics/culture is unknown to me as many comics don't get exported---partly, because artists are at continual wars with abusive/exploitative Chinese publishing firms that are in one Chinese manga artist's words to me "the worst". They've been known to publish works in foreign publications such as Japan without notifying the artists, without obtaining the additional rights, or other necessary practices, and simply publish them overseas to obtain royalties because they can, due to the difficulty of Chinese comic artists gaining access to the outside world due to the Great Red Firewall. As a result of limited access, these companies are able to take advantage of artists.
I was told that the pressure to produce in China is such that some artists are required to produce 60 full color pages per week themselves (without an assistant). It's nuts.
In any event, given the culture trends and also the sensationalism under a highly regulated culture that forbids some R-rated content and all "Adult" rated content. My friend for instance was forbidden from having nude ghosts (she thought that ghosts wouldn't need clothing). Ghosts and related content are highly restricted. As such, it may likewise be a result of culture shock---because content of a sensational nature is restricted, then in those areas that it is permitted, it becomes graphic. In a way similar to what one sees in Japan. Partly as a consequence of culture norms with Post-WWII feminism enshrined in the Japanese Constitution, Japanese women were able to over time push back against strict Patriarchal Japanese culture and gain independence such that today they have more power than most American Women. That combined with some of the conservative nature/repressive aspects of Japanese culture and the pornography laws (unlike the US, in Japan, one is required to use bars or pixelate content) there's a trend towards the extreme in fiction (re: everything on the dark side of the Rule of 34 that was inherited from Japan. Shota, Loli, Tentacles, gore, vore, penis vore, things that are so horrific we shan't speak of them). It isn't a surprise then that for some female readers like those in Japan who maintain social power, there wouldn't be a trend to want "excitement." That might take the form of "crazy" "romance" stories that are by all estimates "toxic". Then again, there's these age old tropes that seem to float around and many of those may well be showing up in these fictions because of the emphasis on sales over social criticism. Korea was under dictatorial rule up until very recently, China has its own issues, and Japan to a lesser extent (just like the US has its own problems). If we look at these factors, it may help explain some of the content choices. But another factor worth mentioning: we aren't getting the corpus of Korean/Chinese comics (romance or otherwise). We're getting what is "selected". And what is "selected" may well be "sensational" because it shocks and sells. People pick it up because it is "different" from what one might see in normal fiction, and is so salacious and toxic that it drives sales via clickbait. People want these dark stories with twisted yet incredibly good looking "dark" male leads. Basically, it's a continuation of the old standard tropes about "the maiden saves the broken hero/villain through true love." "True love conquers all." By empirical study, we see these tropes often do more harm that good as the number of cases of a relationship such as this saving "anyone" in the relationship tends to be limited, most of the "male leads" tend to be narcissistic or outright sociopathic/psychopathic, extreme possessive, destructive, manipulative, and the heroines weak, feeble, and inept doormats for their male counterparts. They tend to involve copious quantities of rape, or at best, ambiguous consent. Yet, people keep reading them and find it difficult to stop the same way people keep watching other displays of horror---it sets off our dopamine centers and we get stimulated, so we keep looking on, like those people who slow down for a car wreck (not for safety, but) so they can get a glimpse of a dead body or some truly grisly carnage.
I love the ambiance and fashion of the old times but I can never really agree with sex slaves, and slaves in general, being normal. It's beyond disgusting. Death seems more merciful than life itself.
Bruh, this isekai shit just came out of nowhere, why couldnt you have been a powerful martial artist or something, fucking generic shit became worse in an instant, fuck this im out, have fun people
Right. So I’m gonna stop reading now. I always find it funny how male characters like this guy despise greedy and evil people while also being a completely despicable asshole like pot kettle black
Thanks for the chapter!
In the LN after cutting her dress he tossed her to Leo and the others who bounced her between them while laughing and bragging about what they'd do to her for a minute before Alexandro stabbed her. Considering how strict he is I wonder why Leo and the guards are so vulgar and feel like can do anything short of killing the slaves without getting in trouble.
