Blade Skill Online: Gomi Shokugyou de Saijaku Bukide Kuso Status no Ore, Itsunomanika "Last Boss" ni Nariagarimasu! - Vol. 1 Ch. 4 - New strategy and…

[feha]

Literally shedinja

Shedinja if it additionally also had Sturdy

 

[feha]

he’s not wrong tho, at this point, using skill point on stats other than luck wont do much unless he gives up on luck

Nah, on the contrary it has diminishing returns at this point, while a few (like merely 1 or 2 levels worth, prolly) points into str and agi would have immense payoff by more than doubling damage and speed, while additionally allowing equipping non-trash gear. Mainly that last part about equipment is the important one, as you don't need many points to get into "usable" territory. And once you reach that, the equipment itself allows you to get more luck stats from them, than you would have gotten if you put it in luck directly and wore trash gear.

 

[Cobaltzero]

he’s not wrong tho, at this point, using skill point on stats other than luck wont do much unless he gives up on luck

Have to disagree, if only just. Even a few points invested into the other stats are going to massively increase his abilities as they are now.
A single point in ANY stat besides luck doubles his current ability. If criticals deal 10 times the normal and his current total of 0 strength deals 1 damage, then he deals 10 damage... but if he deals 2 damage from investing a single point in strength, then those same crits deal 20 damage instead.
In all honesty, he should commit to the luck build, but he should also look into what kind of shenanigans he can cause by adding a point or 2 to his dump stats.

Nah, on the contrary it has diminishing returns at this point, while a few (like merely 1 or 2 levels worth, prolly) points into str and agi would have immense payoff by more than doubling damage and speed, while additionally allowing equipping non-trash gear. Mainly that last part about equipment is the important one, as you don't need many points to get into "usable" territory. And once you reach that, the equipment itself allows you to get more luck stats from them, than you would have gotten if you put it in luck directly and wore trash gear.

Except the ring TRIPLES his luck stat. Every point invested in luck is now effectively 3 points instead. Assuming a somewhat sane cap of 999, he's already nearly 2/3rd's the way there. Assuming a more likely realistic cap of 9999 or, god forbid, 99999, he's already WAY ahead of his level's curve for his stats. I do agree that even a point or 2 dump into any other stat (barring HP and maybe Defensive stats) would VASTLY increase his power. Considering his build is now entirely reliant on luck for both offense and defense, he needs to continue maxing that as hard as he can. If I was him, I don't think I'd raise any of my stats above 10 before I maxed out luck (if possible).

Assuming he's going to always get 20 stat points per level, all he has to do is a 1/1/18 split between strength agility and luck. That 18 becomes 54 points with his ring equiped, so he's actually getting the equivalent of 56 stat points per level (and 60 every time he he dumps it all into luck). And this is also assuming he doesn't get an item/skill at some point that lets him substitute one ability score for another, which means he gains nothing from pumping any other stat than luck.

 

[nubychuriz]

Have to disagree, if only just. Even a few points invested into the other stats are going to massively increase his abilities as they are now.
A single point in ANY stat besides luck doubles his current ability. If criticals deal 10 times the normal and his current total of 0 strength deals 1 damage, then he deals 10 damage... but if he deals 2 damage from investing a single point in strength, then those same crits deal 20 damage instead.
In all honesty, he should commit to the luck build, but he should also look into what kind of shenanigans he can cause by adding a point or 2 to his dump stats.


Except the ring TRIPLES his luck stat. Every point invested in luck is now effectively 3 points instead. Assuming a somewhat sane cap of 999, he's already nearly 2/3rd's the way there. Assuming a more likely realistic cap of 9999 or, god forbid, 99999, he's already WAY ahead of his level's curve for his stats. I do agree that even a point or 2 dump into any other stat (barring HP and maybe Defensive stats) would VASTLY increase his power. Considering his build is now entirely reliant on luck for both offense and defense, he needs to continue maxing that as hard as he can. If I was him, I don't think I'd raise any of my stats above 10 before I maxed out luck (if possible).

Assuming he's going to always get 20 stat points per level, all he has to do is a 1/1/18 split between strength agility and luck. That 18 becomes 54 points with his ring equiped, so he's actually getting the equivalent of 56 stat points per level (and 60 every time he he dumps it all into luck). And this is also assuming he doesn't get an item/skill at some point that lets him substitute one ability score for another, which means he gains nothing from pumping any other stat than luck.

Bro do be making game theories for a game that doesn't exist 💀

 

[GabrielH]

Man I shipped this gurl with Baldhead so much after reading the web novel.

 

[Cobaltzero]

Bro do be making game theories for a game that doesn't exist 💀

Thought exercises are fun!

 

[chairlight]

Have to disagree, if only just. Even a few points invested into the other stats are going to massively increase his abilities as they are now.
A single point in ANY stat besides luck doubles his current ability. If criticals deal 10 times the normal and his current total of 0 strength deals 1 damage, then he deals 10 damage... but if he deals 2 damage from investing a single point in strength, then those same crits deal 20 damage instead.
In all honesty, he should commit to the luck build, but he should also look into what kind of shenanigans he can cause by adding a point or 2 to his dump stats.


Except the ring TRIPLES his luck stat. Every point invested in luck is now effectively 3 points instead. Assuming a somewhat sane cap of 999, he's already nearly 2/3rd's the way there. Assuming a more likely realistic cap of 9999 or, god forbid, 99999, he's already WAY ahead of his level's curve for his stats. I do agree that even a point or 2 dump into any other stat (barring HP and maybe Defensive stats) would VASTLY increase his power. Considering his build is now entirely reliant on luck for both offense and defense, he needs to continue maxing that as hard as he can. If I was him, I don't think I'd raise any of my stats above 10 before I maxed out luck (if possible).

Assuming he's going to always get 20 stat points per level, all he has to do is a 1/1/18 split between strength agility and luck. That 18 becomes 54 points with his ring equiped, so he's actually getting the equivalent of 56 stat points per level (and 60 every time he he dumps it all into luck). And this is also assuming he doesn't get an item/skill at some point that lets him substitute one ability score for another, which means he gains nothing from pumping any other stat than luck.

You are not wrong, but you are missing the point here(perhaps the guy you responded to as well).

The MC isn't going to invest in other stats. He specifically chose not to, precisely because he wants to go all in and stick it to the people who trolled him. He's not trying to be the strongest he possibly could be. He is trying to become the strongest player, using his specific build and make it work somehow.

To use a bad analogy, it's kinda like what I used to do in league of legends. I used to do super off meta stuff. Like speed assassin glass cannon hecarim. Use mages/supports as ad carries. And some actually works pretty good. Thresh can basically one shot enemies with triple/quadruple/quintuple damage and infinite souls. Ad ahri has pretty decent stats, and can be quite powerful with hard taunt cc, and good mobility/escape, with a dash of true damage.

I never followed the pro scene, but I know for a fact at least one of the top teams/players over the years used some sort of weird combo, like ap rengar.

But I digress. Again, the MC isn't trying to make the best, most efficient build. He is trying to become the best while dumping into one stat. And he is just now starting to find the real meat to his super niche build. It's not rational, but a stubborn choice rooted in emotion.(Not unlike his initial decision to dump into luck in the first place because he wanted to escape his rl bad luck)

 

[feha]

Except the ring TRIPLES his luck stat. Every point invested in luck is now effectively 3 points instead. Assuming a somewhat sane cap of 999, he's already nearly 2/3rd's the way there. Assuming a more likely realistic cap of 9999 or, god forbid, 99999, he's already WAY ahead of his level's curve for his stats. I do agree that even a point or 2 dump into any other stat (barring HP and maybe Defensive stats) would VASTLY increase his power. Considering his build is now entirely reliant on luck for both offense and defense, he needs to continue maxing that as hard as he can. If I was him, I don't think I'd raise any of my stats above 10 before I maxed out luck (if possible).

Assuming he's going to always get 20 stat points per level, all he has to do is a 1/1/18 split between strength agility and luck. That 18 becomes 54 points with his ring equiped, so he's actually getting the equivalent of 56 stat points per level (and 60 every time he he dumps it all into luck). And this is also assuming he doesn't get an item/skill at some point that lets him substitute one ability score for another, which means he gains nothing from pumping any other stat than luck.

You seem to forget the chronological order. He assigned the stats before getting that necklace (though even after, it merely triples the assigned points, and besides that it doesn't affect the diminishing returns as the non-free points are tripled too. So at 98 luck, the last two points are worth ~2%. With necklace that would be (3*2)/(3*98), which is also ~2%. While if they were split to str and agi, it would be 1/1 = 100% increase to bring them from 1->2).

All that was beside my point though, as my focus was on how increasing str (and maybe agi) increases the equipment which he clears the restriction for. Which will by itself give more luck than he would have gotten if he put it in luck. ie. he puts all 20 into strength, and equips high-tier luck equipment: he should prolly gain around 10 from each piece then, totaling ~50 extra luck. But with all 20 put into luck, he has trash gear that give maybe 2 luck per piece, totalling ~10. So summing it up he would get 10+20=30 luck. Then with the necklace, that means he gets 150 luck if he put it all into str, while he only gets 90 luck if he puts it all into luck.

PS: Also, the ring doesn't triple his luck stat, it sets hp to 1.

 

[feha]

You are not wrong, but you are missing the point here(perhaps the guy you responded to as well).

The MC isn't going to invest in other stats. He specifically chose not to, precisely because he wants to go all in and stick it to the people who trolled him. He's not trying to be the strongest he possibly could be. He is trying to become the strongest player, using his specific build and make it work somehow.

To use a bad analogy, it's kinda like what I used to do in league of legends. I used to do super off meta stuff. Like speed assassin glass cannon hecarim. Use mages/supports as ad carries. And some actually works pretty good. Thresh can basically one shot enemies with triple/quadruple/quintuple damage and infinite souls. Ad ahri has pretty decent stats, and can be quite powerful with hard taunt cc, and good mobility/escape, with a dash of true damage.

I never followed the pro scene, but I know for a fact at least one of the top teams/players over the years used some sort of weird combo, like ap rengar.

But I digress. Again, the MC isn't trying to make the best, most efficient build. He is trying to become the best while dumping into one stat. And he is just now starting to find the real meat to his super niche build. It's not rational, but a stubborn choice rooted in emotion.(Not unlike his initial decision to dump into luck in the first place because he wanted to escape his rl bad luck)

I disagree. MC is trying to make a summoner/archer build work, while going all in on luck because he is unlucky irl. And the choice of puting it all into luck has already proven to massively hamper his damage, defence, and luck potential, as he can't wear good gear. He got good enough materials to allow his trash equips to probably rival regular low quality noob-gear - but that only means he loses out so much more on what he would have gotten if his gear could hade higher requirements. Usually the difference in those kinds of things nears an entire magnitude of difference, thus actually easily making back the stats spent on dump-stats, through the equipment-stats.

And besides that, pretty much all viable meme builds always have at least some stats in the dump stats as well. Usually that is because you start with at least some (often 10, but paper mario TTYD starts with less hp and fp). While in this game he gets 1 as baseline, so even a single point each doubles damage and rof, quadrupling the dps. So going 100% luck only makes sense if you know a skill/title like maple's 100% defence one exists, and otherwise doing so is considered going against the build described by the trolls (which means succeeding with it is not proving them wrong, even if they had added luck to the build-suggestion)

 

[Blaze_Rod]

I feel like even putting a little bit of points into strenght and agility would be helpful. there's no way that gaining more luck while already having such a high luck stat doesn't give diminishing returns.

This would only apply if the game is well made and has balanced gameplay and stat systems.

The game in these types of manga is always designed by a bunch of crackheads that haven't even heard about balancing.

 

[Head_Snapss]

The necklace sounds like the most overpowered gear in existence.
They act like peril strats in Paper Mario don't exist. Not to mention, if you have tanks that use taunts, a DPS/DPS Healer could easily like delete boss HP or abuse AOE skills with a 300% boost, especially if it stacks with other buffs.
Who knows if there are armor buffs that allow for one to live fatal hits and set HP at 1 for a cool down.

 

[StormSen]

The necklace sounds like the most overpowered gear in existence.
They act like peril strats in Paper Mario don't exist. Not to mention, if you have tanks that use taunts, a DPS/DPS Healer could easily like delete boss HP or abuse AOE skills with a 300% boost, especially if it stacks with other buffs.
Who knows if there are armor buffs that allow for one to live fatal hits and set HP at 1 for a cool down.

The web novel gets into the technicalities more and does answer some of the questions here. (And is a fun read!)

The necklace + ring is is a joke garbage pair: Ring sets your HP to 1, Necklace triples your [random stat] when HP is 1. That's suicide. Sure something like "guts" might help once or twice if you got really, really lucky, but that's it. ... Unless of course, you did something insane like "maxing your luck" (which is a garbage stat), and even then... Oh wait, ring necklace tripled luck.

There's other bits that don't make it in to the manga:

• Yuri's accuracy is shit (agility == 0), but that doesn't matter because the living weapon arrows are self-guiding and so can always hit.
• Spirits imbued into weapons die when the weapon breaks. But... Yuri imbued them into beginner arrows, which are weak... but have infinite durability and thus never break.

Essentially... The right combination of troll, joke and garbage items, skills and stats == surprisingly successful build.

 

[StormSen]

Incidentally... Yuri + Beginner Dress == Perfect Motorboating Build.

 

[chairlight]

I disagree. MC is trying to make a summoner/archer build work, while going all in on luck because he is unlucky irl. And the choice of puting it all into luck has already proven to massively hamper his damage, defence, and luck potential, as he can't wear good gear. He got good enough materials to allow his trash equips to probably rival regular low quality noob-gear - but that only means he loses out so much more on what he would have gotten if his gear could hade higher requirements. Usually the difference in those kinds of things nears an entire magnitude of difference, thus actually easily making back the stats spent on dump-stats, through the equipment-stats.

And besides that, pretty much all viable meme builds always have at least some stats in the dump stats as well. Usually that is because you start with at least some (often 10, but paper mario TTYD starts with less hp and fp). While in this game he gets 1 as baseline, so even a single point each doubles damage and rof, quadrupling the dps. So going 100% luck only makes sense if you know a skill/title like maple's 100% defence one exists, and otherwise doing so is considered going against the build described by the trolls (which means succeeding with it is not proving them wrong, even if they had added luck to the build-suggestion)

I think you still miss the point here.

You (like people before) are making a very rational argument for why MC should be building differently. You are 100% right. The problem is, MC is not behaving rationally, he is being impulsive and stubborn. Absolutely, investing even minimally into other stats would make sense, and be more powerful. Even slightly investing into other stats would significantly increase his ability with higher damage, more gear options, in almost every conceivable way.

The MC even understands that, and says so.

MC went all luck initially because of his irl bad luck. But he chose to stick with pure luck build, because he is stubborn and learned like archer and summoner, luck is considered a garbage also. Even he realized putting stats elsewhere would make him stronger. He was literally told and literally disappointed that he was stuck with the crappy beginner bow he cant even really use because of his 0 strength stat. But he doubles down because he is stubborn and committed to make it work come hell or high water. Even as he found minimal success, and has already hit a wall.

Don't take my word for this, he explains this in his own words:

In short, my stats are easily overwhelmed. I obtained several stat points from hunting zombies. Should I divide them into strength or agility? I can't decide. If I did that, it wouldn't end like before. If I can run away while shooting arrows with increased damage, I should be more effective in fights.
But then it won't be a pure luck build anymore, I still would be able to prove how effective a archer and summoner is regardless. It's better than fighting with poor results.

Aaaaaaaahhhhhh.
A Man is all about guts! Once you started it, you gotta see it through to the end! I will stick to this playstyle no matter what!

MC is the type of person who if he hits a wall, he will keep banging his head against the wall until he finds a way through no matter what. He takes it as a challenge, and a man won't back away from a challenge(in his eyes). Even if simply turning to the side and walking a few steps around it would be an easier option that would get him way further, way faster.

This attribute of his, is stupid and insane. But it also makes him unique, and makes his character so enjoyable as the story progresses, and he continues to double down on his commitment, even as he knows it is insane and he is fighting against the current.(the story would be boring, dumb and pointless if he wasn't self aware about this)

 

[feha]

But he chose to stick with pure luck build [...]

This is the part we agree on, but that has us diverge opinions afterwards.

You clearly seem to think a pure luck-build is when you put everything into luck, even at the demerit of luck. More important to not get other stats.
While imo., a pure luck-build is instead one that tries to maximize luck (well technically, I see it as one that tries to maximize viability through the luck stat. But the point I have been arguing is instead what I stated outside paranthesis: that even if we don't care for becoming viable, he is also hampering his own luck stat. So no need to consider anything but that aspect atm). Even if that requires getting additional things such as str/agi along the way, etc.

 

[nubychuriz]

Honestly, one of the most heated discussion I've seen on the internet

 

[BadmanBlues]

The item that triples his other stats is useless.

3 x 0 = 0

 

[StormSen]

You (like people before) are making a very rational argument for why MC should be building differently. You are 100% right. The problem is, MC is not behaving rationally, he is being impulsive and stubborn. Absolutely, investing even minimally into other stats would make sense, and be more powerful. Even slightly investing into other stats would significantly increase his ability with higher damage, more gear options, in almost every conceivable way.

There's a prediction problem here:

The fundamental issue is one of knowledge. In the system provided by the game, there are parts that are very well known: Relatively well tested builds and the range of workable variation between them. For this well known part of the game system, calculations and rules of thumb have been developed that are accurate within that well known domain.

However, the game is vast, and has many relatively untested borderline cases and combinations. Hence, the rules of thumb that are developed for the well trodden parts of the game may be off (or even completely wrong) in the less trodden parts of the game. In these borderline, untrodden parts of the game, it's rational to throw out the standard model and just go out and try stuff. (E.g. attacking a mob by using an arrow as a melee weapon.)

So Yuri knows the basic rules of thumb and applies them, but also recognizes that he doesn't really know for sure -- and so ignoring those rules and just going off in some weird direction is a rational choice.

Sure this is a long shot, but this sort of approach is very much true in real life too. Many of the great discoveries were made by ignoring the accepted rules of thumb and heading off in some strange direction.

In short: (Sometimes) you don't really know until you try. Society needs (some) people who will try weird stuff.

 

[StormSen]

You clearly seem to think a pure luck-build is when you put everything into luck, even at the demerit of luck. More important to not get other stats.

Umm yeah, that's what "pure" means.

What you're suggesting is a "luck-focused" or "high luck" build. That's fine, but it's not "pure luck".

 

[ForTheJerusalem]

I feel like even putting a little bit of points into strenght and agility would be helpful. there's no way that gaining more luck while already having such a high luck stat doesn't give diminishing returns.

But but, it wont be a pure luck build, and also now with the cool amulet (which requires you to spend 2/3 of your slots on it, BUT TSSSS) you get 3 points for the price of 1! Oh and also, don't seek logic in this, the devs in mangas never know how to balance their games.