Blue Hearts - Ch. 49 - A Song From the Heart
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@comeonnow0
No, I did not ignore those, I took into consider all of his feeling, all of his thought, all of his actions in this entire arc, and especially, the song he performed in this specific chapter, to understand the character, what he wanted, what he chose, what he loves, and what really on his mind.
And please tell me, which is the part he said those thing you said out loud? The closest thing I can find is his thought of "For Towa's sake, I'll act according to..." in chap 43, and yet, "I'll..." is not "I want to..." And not to mention, you just can't take characters' words by words to understand everything, only the laziest writers do that since people have always been saying "show, don't tell."
No, I did not ignore those, I took into consider all of his feeling, all of his thought, all of his actions in this entire arc, and especially, the song he performed in this specific chapter, to understand the character, what he wanted, what he chose, what he loves, and what really on his mind.
And please tell me, which is the part he said those thing you said out loud? The closest thing I can find is his thought of "For Towa's sake, I'll act according to..." in chap 43, and yet, "I'll..." is not "I want to..." And not to mention, you just can't take characters' words by words to understand everything, only the laziest writers do that since people have always been saying "show, don't tell."
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@PeterAn4798 On chapter 41, the first page starts with an inner monologue. "I'll live by the arrangements my parents have made. That's fine. If I can secretly have fun, even just a little, that'd be fine." Yes, that's not "out loud", but give me a moment. I'll get there. Regarding that statement, though, it literally means he wants to please his parents. He wouldn't be okay with living by their arrangements if he didn't want to satisfy them. Yes, very clearly, he has additional interests, but it would be wrong to say that pleasing his parents is not one of his desires.
On chapter 43, there is the monologue that you pointed out. I won't delve into in depth, but it's really cheap to try to say that these lines are not expressing his wants, his desires and wishes. Are you really going to tell me that he is just straight up lying right now? Is that what you believe is happening in that scene?
All of the times that he refused to make a band with them is more evidence of this. He explicitly says no, many, many times. In chapter 46, Nagi asks "You don't wanna do it!?", and Toki replies with "Why else would I be refusing?" We see in the very next scene that Toki gets pissed when Nagi just inserts his own opinion into it and asks "Did I ever say that I love to sing?". This is evidence that he wants to keep things as they are. He desires that.
And you're telling me you just can't take characters' words by words to understand everything? When did I ever say that's how to understand everything? I am not denying that Toki has an interest in singing. That is evident from his actions. The difference is that you and the author seem to be denying that he has an interest in pleasing his parents in a particular way, despite the fact that he very explicitly does wish to please them in this specific way.
I am saying pay attention to BOTH his actions and his words. I am saying it's bullshit to just decide that his words don't matter. It's completely bullshit to end chapter 49, the current chapter, by saying "What's important is your own will, it's what you want to do." It's ignoring the fact that he has BOTH of those wants, both of those desires.
On chapter 43, there is the monologue that you pointed out. I won't delve into in depth, but it's really cheap to try to say that these lines are not expressing his wants, his desires and wishes. Are you really going to tell me that he is just straight up lying right now? Is that what you believe is happening in that scene?
All of the times that he refused to make a band with them is more evidence of this. He explicitly says no, many, many times. In chapter 46, Nagi asks "You don't wanna do it!?", and Toki replies with "Why else would I be refusing?" We see in the very next scene that Toki gets pissed when Nagi just inserts his own opinion into it and asks "Did I ever say that I love to sing?". This is evidence that he wants to keep things as they are. He desires that.
And you're telling me you just can't take characters' words by words to understand everything? When did I ever say that's how to understand everything? I am not denying that Toki has an interest in singing. That is evident from his actions. The difference is that you and the author seem to be denying that he has an interest in pleasing his parents in a particular way, despite the fact that he very explicitly does wish to please them in this specific way.
I am saying pay attention to BOTH his actions and his words. I am saying it's bullshit to just decide that his words don't matter. It's completely bullshit to end chapter 49, the current chapter, by saying "What's important is your own will, it's what you want to do." It's ignoring the fact that he has BOTH of those wants, both of those desires.
Dear estranged child reading this chapter: Are you doctor yet? Why you spend time on this when not doctor yet? 😉
Continuing to enjoy the story but the lack of a clear female lead or MC viewpoint char is really noticeable from an immersiveness standpoint. A true ensemble is tough in this format given how little time is avail for each character.
Continuing to enjoy the story but the lack of a clear female lead or MC viewpoint char is really noticeable from an immersiveness standpoint. A true ensemble is tough in this format given how little time is avail for each character.
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I'm sorry but I still don't understand what you're trying to say here. Eveything Toki has been doing up until that point doesn't really show me that he simply wanted to please his parents, they shows me that he accepted the responsibility of being the perfect and normal kid that the parents expected and believed that it'd be ok and enough for him. In chapter 43, he straight up blamed everything on Towa, would he do that if he was truly ok with it?
Never for once in this arc, or in the entire manga so far, that we see him being happy for what he had been doing. Instead, we continuously see his struggle with everything, being jealous with Towa and others... It's true that he's the only one who can tell what he wants, and this chapter is the very first time we truly heard his own desire, his own wish, and once again, his overall struggle of wanting to be himself through his song.
Like I said, I've been there so I understand his thought, his feeling and his actions. Toki was afraid to face his parents, so he "was just taking the easy way out" (chapter 46) and started lying to himself that this would be ok. He refused to form a band because he was not ready to face the truth, to be open about his feeling and share it to others. He wanted to keep it that way because he didn't have the will to do what he really wants, which is being himself. All of his thought, all of his actions all lead to this understanding.
In the end, he might want to please his parents as most of us do, but that doesn't need the will to do it, while being himself does, which is why the message is "What's important is your own will, it's what you want to do." If you still don't agree with this, then I honestly give up.
I'm sorry but I still don't understand what you're trying to say here. Eveything Toki has been doing up until that point doesn't really show me that he simply wanted to please his parents, they shows me that he accepted the responsibility of being the perfect and normal kid that the parents expected and believed that it'd be ok and enough for him. In chapter 43, he straight up blamed everything on Towa, would he do that if he was truly ok with it?
Never for once in this arc, or in the entire manga so far, that we see him being happy for what he had been doing. Instead, we continuously see his struggle with everything, being jealous with Towa and others... It's true that he's the only one who can tell what he wants, and this chapter is the very first time we truly heard his own desire, his own wish, and once again, his overall struggle of wanting to be himself through his song.
Like I said, I've been there so I understand his thought, his feeling and his actions. Toki was afraid to face his parents, so he "was just taking the easy way out" (chapter 46) and started lying to himself that this would be ok. He refused to form a band because he was not ready to face the truth, to be open about his feeling and share it to others. He wanted to keep it that way because he didn't have the will to do what he really wants, which is being himself. All of his thought, all of his actions all lead to this understanding.
In the end, he might want to please his parents as most of us do, but that doesn't need the will to do it, while being himself does, which is why the message is "What's important is your own will, it's what you want to do." If you still don't agree with this, then I honestly give up.
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@PeterAn4798 Do you know what the word ALSO means? Do you know what the words IN ADDITION mean? I'm trying not to sound rude, but it really looks like you don't know what those words mean.
He wants to sing. We both agree on that. He ALSO wants to please his parents. Are you really going to disagree with that? Do you really think that he does not want to please his parents? Is that what you're trying to say right now?
Let me make this very clear for you. Nothing that you said responds to anything that I wrote. I'll say it another way. I can say that everything that you wrote is completely and one hundred percent right. So what? You have not even slightly disputed what I actually wrote. It's like I said the today is hot and then you started talking about how water is wet. Yes, you are correct. So what?
You tried talking about the "will" to please his parents? You're trying to invent things that are never mentioned in order to try to ignore what I was talking about. IN ADDITION to you making that up out of nowhere, you sound completely fake. Oh, he wants to please his parents, but he doesn't have the will to please his parents. Ignore the fact that he tries hard in school. Ignore the fact that he maintains a good public image. Ignore his conscious efforts. He has no "will" to please his parents. You sound so fake.
Again, the very last line of this chapter is "What's important is your own will, it's what you want to do." Yes or no question. Does he want to please his parents? Yes or no. Two options.
He wants to sing. We both agree on that. He ALSO wants to please his parents. Are you really going to disagree with that? Do you really think that he does not want to please his parents? Is that what you're trying to say right now?
Let me make this very clear for you. Nothing that you said responds to anything that I wrote. I'll say it another way. I can say that everything that you wrote is completely and one hundred percent right. So what? You have not even slightly disputed what I actually wrote. It's like I said the today is hot and then you started talking about how water is wet. Yes, you are correct. So what?
You tried talking about the "will" to please his parents? You're trying to invent things that are never mentioned in order to try to ignore what I was talking about. IN ADDITION to you making that up out of nowhere, you sound completely fake. Oh, he wants to please his parents, but he doesn't have the will to please his parents. Ignore the fact that he tries hard in school. Ignore the fact that he maintains a good public image. Ignore his conscious efforts. He has no "will" to please his parents. You sound so fake.
Again, the very last line of this chapter is "What's important is your own will, it's what you want to do." Yes or no question. Does he want to please his parents? Yes or no. Two options.
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@comeonnow0
Whether Toki wants to please his parents is something you and I can not tell, and because his parents are well known doctors, it can likely become more of the responsibility than a desire that he had.
But what I can tell is Toki was not happy about it. Do you think someone who wants to do something and has the will to do it would react like him? He blamed everything on Towa in chapter 43 and later called it the easy way out for him in chapter 46. Why would he do that if he was doing what he wanted with his own will?
He's a good student. So what? Towa goes to Aoba and we know that's a very good school, which means Towa is smart and the facts that she is Toki's twin sister (twins can be both smart or both dumb), their parents own a clinic (kids can be very smart just like their parents), and Toki still rank #1 despite all the freetime he has for his own hobbies, studying's very likely not huge problem for him like some others. So his effort to please his parents that way doesn't reflect anything about his own wishes.
But his emotionless face in the 2 flashbacks we see here, combines with other things I've said, does reflect on the fact that he doesn't care anything, including whether the parents are happy with his results or not, so how can I say pleasing his parents that way was part of what he wanted if he did not seek for their responses?
And that's the problem I have with your opion. I'm sorry if I went off the track in those ealier replies, but the thing is you're too focus on the idea that Toki wanted to do this and that because he wanted to please the parents, and I was trying to say it might not be the case at all, that was the choice he took, but not necessary the thing he wanted, which was the ability to be himself and would need his parents to accept the person who he is.
Whether Toki wants to please his parents is something you and I can not tell, and because his parents are well known doctors, it can likely become more of the responsibility than a desire that he had.
But what I can tell is Toki was not happy about it. Do you think someone who wants to do something and has the will to do it would react like him? He blamed everything on Towa in chapter 43 and later called it the easy way out for him in chapter 46. Why would he do that if he was doing what he wanted with his own will?
He's a good student. So what? Towa goes to Aoba and we know that's a very good school, which means Towa is smart and the facts that she is Toki's twin sister (twins can be both smart or both dumb), their parents own a clinic (kids can be very smart just like their parents), and Toki still rank #1 despite all the freetime he has for his own hobbies, studying's very likely not huge problem for him like some others. So his effort to please his parents that way doesn't reflect anything about his own wishes.
But his emotionless face in the 2 flashbacks we see here, combines with other things I've said, does reflect on the fact that he doesn't care anything, including whether the parents are happy with his results or not, so how can I say pleasing his parents that way was part of what he wanted if he did not seek for their responses?
And that's the problem I have with your opion. I'm sorry if I went off the track in those ealier replies, but the thing is you're too focus on the idea that Toki wanted to do this and that because he wanted to please the parents, and I was trying to say it might not be the case at all, that was the choice he took, but not necessary the thing he wanted, which was the ability to be himself and would need his parents to accept the person who he is.
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@PeterAn4798 Wow. You are being actually pretty bad right now. "Whether Toki wants to please his parents is something you and I can not tell" You're literally deciding what he does and does not want and ignoring what he actually thinks. You're saying that his own thoughts do not matter. You are deciding for him what he does and does not want. We can't tell?
Do you not realize how hypocritical you are when you write that? Apparently we cannot tell whether he wants to please his parents despite ALL of this evidence, but you somehow have decided that you can tell that he was not happy about it. You have literally ignored everything that is in this series in order to push your own interpretation that makes no sense.
The evidence is very, VERY clear. He wanted to sing. No one disputes that. He ALSO wanted to please his parents. Despite all of his inner thoughts and all of his hard work achieving his grades and staying out of trouble, you decided to ignore all of that and say nah, we can't tell if he actually wanted to please his parents. This is just ridiculous.
Do you not realize how hypocritical you are when you write that? Apparently we cannot tell whether he wants to please his parents despite ALL of this evidence, but you somehow have decided that you can tell that he was not happy about it. You have literally ignored everything that is in this series in order to push your own interpretation that makes no sense.
The evidence is very, VERY clear. He wanted to sing. No one disputes that. He ALSO wanted to please his parents. Despite all of his inner thoughts and all of his hard work achieving his grades and staying out of trouble, you decided to ignore all of that and say nah, we can't tell if he actually wanted to please his parents. This is just ridiculous.
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And yet, you decided on your own that he wanted to please the parents based on some certain of his actions and words, but not his inner feelings and reactions throughout this entire arc. Because of the way of thinking like that, the parents misunderstood him and came to conclusion "oh yeah, Toki must love studying so much, let's push him harder rather than sit and have a proper talk to him about what he really wants."
As I said, I've been like him before so I understand this very differently. People can try really hard because they feel the responsibilities others put on them. People can keep lying to themselve that it's ok, up to the point they start losing their minds. People can pretend they're ok to others until one day, they're gone without a word.
So yeah, it makes no sense to your world, but it does in my world, the world where my parents were so happy with my results that they thought studying was the only thing I cared and it took me so long to be open about what I really wanted, the world where my friend just suddenly killed himself out of nowhere despite being normal just a day before, and the world where people still need psychotherapists to help them because their family and their friends can't.
If you still don't think like that, then fine, let's just keep thinking I'm a hypocrite and end this here.
And yet, you decided on your own that he wanted to please the parents based on some certain of his actions and words, but not his inner feelings and reactions throughout this entire arc. Because of the way of thinking like that, the parents misunderstood him and came to conclusion "oh yeah, Toki must love studying so much, let's push him harder rather than sit and have a proper talk to him about what he really wants."
As I said, I've been like him before so I understand this very differently. People can try really hard because they feel the responsibilities others put on them. People can keep lying to themselve that it's ok, up to the point they start losing their minds. People can pretend they're ok to others until one day, they're gone without a word.
So yeah, it makes no sense to your world, but it does in my world, the world where my parents were so happy with my results that they thought studying was the only thing I cared and it took me so long to be open about what I really wanted, the world where my friend just suddenly killed himself out of nowhere despite being normal just a day before, and the world where people still need psychotherapists to help them because their family and their friends can't.
If you still don't think like that, then fine, let's just keep thinking I'm a hypocrite and end this here.
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@PeterAn4798 I DID take into account his inner thoughts and feelings. It is YOU that is ignoring them. I pointed out his monologues where he specifically says that he is fine doing this, that this is okay. I specifically pointed out where he thinks to himself that he doesn't want the situation to change. You NEVER addressed that. You're IGNORING those parts.
You have completely misunderstood. I never said that your words didn't make sense. IF what you said is true, then yes, you are correct. IF. The problem is that you are ignoring huge parts. You literally never addressed his actual thoughts that we could see.
And I am sincerely sorry for both the loss that you went through in losing your friend as well as the pressure that you felt as a result of your parents, but that is almost completely irrelevant to this current situation. Do you know what you are doing? You are thinking you went through a similar experience as the character Toki, so therefore he must be feeling the same things as you. The problem is that you have ignored all the evidence to the contrary. You have never once addressed the fact that he specifically says he wants things to stay the way they are.
At the end of the day, you have to say that Toki does not want to please his parents OR there is no evidence to support that. Those are your two options. The ONLY way to get to that conclusion is through ignoring his inner thoughts, ignoring his explicit words, and ignoring all the effort and actions he has taken throughout his life. You are trying to say his choices don't matter because you say they don't.
You have completely misunderstood. I never said that your words didn't make sense. IF what you said is true, then yes, you are correct. IF. The problem is that you are ignoring huge parts. You literally never addressed his actual thoughts that we could see.
And I am sincerely sorry for both the loss that you went through in losing your friend as well as the pressure that you felt as a result of your parents, but that is almost completely irrelevant to this current situation. Do you know what you are doing? You are thinking you went through a similar experience as the character Toki, so therefore he must be feeling the same things as you. The problem is that you have ignored all the evidence to the contrary. You have never once addressed the fact that he specifically says he wants things to stay the way they are.
At the end of the day, you have to say that Toki does not want to please his parents OR there is no evidence to support that. Those are your two options. The ONLY way to get to that conclusion is through ignoring his inner thoughts, ignoring his explicit words, and ignoring all the effort and actions he has taken throughout his life. You are trying to say his choices don't matter because you say they don't.
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I actually addressed those in one of the ealier replies when I said he was afraid to face the truth so he kept lying to himself about being fine with this, because in chapter 43, right after he mentioned he was ok with how he had been living, he then show his frustration toward Towa for being able to be herself, and after refusing so many time, yet, he still ended up agree to form a band with them after realizing he was just taking an easy way out, and he's now more open about himself to the worst 4 and the rest of the school. So I doubt someone who really wanted to do this like you said would react like that.
So I think the final answer is that unless we learn something else in the next chapter, your evidences aren't enough to convince me that "yeah, Toki wanted to please his parents so he do this and that and was ok with it," they only contribute to the idea that he chose that way because he felt the responsibilities to make up for Towa and had been stuck at that place for so long until now.
Oh, and now I just realize the message was actually something Nagi said to Towa in chapter 46. Can't believe I missed that.
I actually addressed those in one of the ealier replies when I said he was afraid to face the truth so he kept lying to himself about being fine with this, because in chapter 43, right after he mentioned he was ok with how he had been living, he then show his frustration toward Towa for being able to be herself, and after refusing so many time, yet, he still ended up agree to form a band with them after realizing he was just taking an easy way out, and he's now more open about himself to the worst 4 and the rest of the school. So I doubt someone who really wanted to do this like you said would react like that.
So I think the final answer is that unless we learn something else in the next chapter, your evidences aren't enough to convince me that "yeah, Toki wanted to please his parents so he do this and that and was ok with it," they only contribute to the idea that he chose that way because he felt the responsibilities to make up for Towa and had been stuck at that place for so long until now.
Oh, and now I just realize the message was actually something Nagi said to Towa in chapter 46. Can't believe I missed that.
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@PeterAn4798 "he chose that way because"
I'm pointing out your own words here. A person makes a choice when they have options. You can't make a choice when you don't have options. I doubt you would disagree with that.
In real life, choices have to be made even if you don't want to make them. For example, if you spill a glass of water, you have a choice between either cleaning it up or leaving it there. You probably wish you didn't have to make that choice in the first place, you probably would've preferred to never spill the glass in the first place, but that's still real life. Choices need to be made. It still makes complete sense to say that you WANT to do one choice over the other EVEN IF you never wanted the situation in the first place. If you spill your water, you might choose to clean it up. You might choose to clean it up because you WANT to clean it up, because it is better than the other option of leaving it there.
Here, you admit that Toki made the choice to act a certain way to please his parents. Despite that, you keep saying that it wasn't because he wanted to. You say "because he felt the responsibilities to make up for Towa and had been stuck at that place for so long until now". He cannot CHOOSE unless he has choices, he has options. What is his other option? His other option is to not do any of that. He CHOSE to put on this act because he thought about the situation. He decided that the better option was to put on his act. He chose it. He WANTED it.
He made a CONSCIOUS decision. You keep trying to say "stuck at that place for so long until now". How about he CHOSE to be in that place? Again, you are ignoring the fact that he THOUGHT about this. He actually gave it thought. He thought yes, I am fine with this. That is a CHOICE. That is a WANT because he chose that option over any other option.
I'm pointing out your own words here. A person makes a choice when they have options. You can't make a choice when you don't have options. I doubt you would disagree with that.
In real life, choices have to be made even if you don't want to make them. For example, if you spill a glass of water, you have a choice between either cleaning it up or leaving it there. You probably wish you didn't have to make that choice in the first place, you probably would've preferred to never spill the glass in the first place, but that's still real life. Choices need to be made. It still makes complete sense to say that you WANT to do one choice over the other EVEN IF you never wanted the situation in the first place. If you spill your water, you might choose to clean it up. You might choose to clean it up because you WANT to clean it up, because it is better than the other option of leaving it there.
Here, you admit that Toki made the choice to act a certain way to please his parents. Despite that, you keep saying that it wasn't because he wanted to. You say "because he felt the responsibilities to make up for Towa and had been stuck at that place for so long until now". He cannot CHOOSE unless he has choices, he has options. What is his other option? His other option is to not do any of that. He CHOSE to put on this act because he thought about the situation. He decided that the better option was to put on his act. He chose it. He WANTED it.
He made a CONSCIOUS decision. You keep trying to say "stuck at that place for so long until now". How about he CHOSE to be in that place? Again, you are ignoring the fact that he THOUGHT about this. He actually gave it thought. He thought yes, I am fine with this. That is a CHOICE. That is a WANT because he chose that option over any other option.
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This was a nice chapter and hits close to home...
On another note, I keep seeing Highschooler/ ReLife Arata, I know it's the same author and it's been long since it ended, but I"M STILL NOT OVER IT!!
On another note, I keep seeing Highschooler/ ReLife Arata, I know it's the same author and it's been long since it ended, but I"M STILL NOT OVER IT!!
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Blue Hearts comment section when
@comeonnow0 Really?
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@comeonnow0 No.
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