Blue Lock - Vol. 12 Ch. 98 - Trickster

[Sonaldo]

@nivinator
Honestly, I just think you're an idiot that can form basic sentences.

>Every match is so predictable at this point. I guess we have to wait for Isagi's great "breakthrough" every. single. time. before seeing some good plays

This sentence doesn't imply Isagi being predictable. It implies the match being predictable and boring because we have to wait for Isagi to do something for it to become good. But fucking Shidou and the other guy just made a good play nigga. So what are you on about? Did you not learn how to construct basic english sentences in elementary school mate?

>I predicted that he would lose the first time, win the SECOND (or third) time every time he's against a new opponent.

Yeah. I mean he totally won against the world selection right? He also won against Rin right? How about those matches in the beginning? Like fucking hell mate. Are you dumb or did you not read the fucking manga at all?

>The reason why other shonen fights (like Naruto vs. Pain) are tense is because both are established as strong characters and they fight at equal levels. When Isagi is constantly the underdog, it just gets annoying.

This just proves how stupid your point are. Did you not realise they are playing football here? A team game? The match is still tense because there's still other characters. And a character that is literally never in the top 10 spot in the beginning and not even in the top 6 right now is an underdog. Surprise surprise. Like fucking hell mate. Are you retarded? Isagi is a team player. That has been established since literally the first chapter. In a place where individuality shines, of course he's gonna be drowned out especially when playing in a new team. Go and reread the manga again before you spout your stupid ass bullshit. Swear some people have the memory of a goldfish.

 

[nivinator]

@Sonaldo
If that's what you thought I implied, well, it wasn't. I'm sorry if that sentence was misleading, but I clarified it later for you, so I don't know why you're still so hung up on it. I have repeated many times that I'm talking purely about Isagi's plays. That's mad clear at this point.

And about the world selection, he didn't even go up against them a second time. And yes, the shonen logic applies to football as well. I just said I wish Isagi was on equal footing with some of the newly introduced characters. I get that he's a team player, that's been established, and he's trying to be more of an individual since the whole point of this Blue Lock thing is to craft a striker with an ego. I just wish we'd see some results.

Honestly I think you need to chill because the argument is getting repetitive since you really don't get any of my points. Also, telling someone to "go read the manga again" is the most basic, childish comeback you could possibly use. It's what people resort to in a losing argument when they can't come up with better support.

 

[Zealotx10]

@Sonaldo Other guy is right. I cba to type up an essay but this is poor writing/lack of true progression due to the author re-using his basic formula for the matches. Look at the match where he lost to Rin, it was basically identical to most of the others where he won with the standard underdog asspull stuff, all that changed was the last goal

 

[Sonaldo]

@nivinator
>It's what people resort to in a losing argument when they can't come up with better support.

Coming from someone who failed to present any examples of his points, this is really funny. Lol.

>he didn't even go up against them a second time

So which opponents did Isagi went up against twice?

>I just wish we'd see some results.

Lol. Did he not do a one two with Rin this chapter and almost created a goal if not for the speedster knowing his pattern? I meant at least provide examples of your points. At this point you may as well use you asshole to type your comments lol. It's like you didn't even read the chapter man. Like seriously.

> I just said I wish Isagi was on equal footing with some of the newly introduced characters.

You mean this one new character that was introduced? The one literally stated to be among the top 6? Then I wish Isagi would suddenly be the best player in the world lol. Like seriously man. How does not following your wish is bad? Funny points and arguments you presented lol.


>don't get any of my points.

Because they're bullshit. You still failed to tell me how all the matches I listed are repetitive. Even then Isagi behaviour in those chapter are not repetitive. Like he didn't win against Rin the second time right? Or did he win in your version since you likes to wish things that didn't happen lol?

@Zealotx10
>lack of true progression due to the author re-using his basic formula for the matches.

Another one that needs to reread the manga. Did you miss all those moments where Isagi suddenly got the piece of puzzle in his head connected? The moments where he sort of leveled up? Like is that not progression? And he literally went past multiple stages of Blue Lock lol. If that's not progression then I dont know what is. And what is that formula may I ask?

>Look at the match where he lost to Rin, it was basically identical to most of the others where he won with the standard underdog asspull stuff, all that changed was the last goal

Lol. Honestly. Like did the ball fly into the net on its own or something? How is a better team with better player winning be an asspull? Like how do you even define that as an asspull? It was established that Rin is literally the best player in Blue Lock. And him scoring a goal is an asspull? What a funny way to look at things lol. May as well call every last minute goals in football an asspull from now on.

 

[nivinator]

@Zealotx10
Omg thank you, I was hoping someone would step in and call this dude out on his utter bullshit. We all appreciate the manga, but we need to be able to see its flaws too--and the formulaic writing in this one is obvious. It's so painful to see crazy fans that can't handle any criticism to a series that they love.

You might regret commenting on this tho, @Sonaldo's established himself as a wall text commenter. Watch out for the notifs lol

@Sonaldo
Literally you and your 500 word essay can fuck off. Your arguments are as repetitive as the matches in this manga. It's undeniable; for every chapter ever since the "top 6" were introduced, people have been complaining about this obvious asspull by the author. After that chapter was released, #bluelock on twitter was flooded with people talking about how dumb af it was. I'm sorry but it's just the facts, it was a terrible asspull to extend the manga further. No one is expecting Isagi to be a world class player. But we do expect results, and so far all we see is this underdog bullshit.

I can see why you enjoy the underdog bullshit though, as you're still continuing with your lameass argument against two commenters.

 

[Sonaldo]

@nivinator
>No one is expecting Isagi to be a world class player. But we do expect results, and so far all we see is this underdog bullshit.

Wonderful. Not only you didn't read the chapter, you also didn't read my comments lol.

And how lovely. You comment literally have no points whatsoever. Instead you're complaining and insulting me. And I'm the one spouting bullshit? At least my wall of texts have points that you should at least try to refute you know. You're a really funny guy.

 

[nivinator]

@Sonaldo I think the comments on the next chapter prove my point for me

 

[RaijinWolf]

@Sonaldo
@nivinator
Let me jump in here to see if I can offer some much-needed insight.
First off, the progression of a shounen-sports manga that is ongoing necessitates that even if Isagi was the worst player, something would have to be the reason he keeps going, otherwise we simply would not see any of Blue Lock after stage one. Hopefully this isn't news to either of you, but I'm just laying some groundwork here.

Isagi - as a player within Blue Lock - is designed fairly well in terms of what he's good at. Having a player who excels physically would cause a Barry Allen scenario, where the only "improvement" to be made is just to run faster. He grades pretty average with his physical and tech, meaning if he wants to shine, he needs to be operating at a higher efficiency than anyone else on the pitch. Also, having his strength lie in game analysis via spatial awareness - a trait more commonly found in playmakers and deep-lying midfielders - gives the manga a reason to do the whole "break down why what this guy just did is cool" thing.

I've seen people almost arrive at this next conclusion, but no one has actually said it with these terms so I'll make it abundantly clear: Isagi doesn't belong in Blue Lock. Selection for Blue Lock was ultimately determined by skill but the purpose of it isn't to develop skill, it's to nurture a player's ego. It's not enough to be a great player, they need to believe they're the best. An easy comparison would be that Blue Lock wants another Cristiano Ronaldo, not another Lionel Messi. Nearly everyone Isagi has encountered so far has the ego of not just wanting to be the best, but wanting to prove why they should be recognised as such. Isagi came into this knowing he wasn't even the best player in the first room, he's going to go through every stage of this knowing that he's outmatched. That's just who he is.

The author was so close to invoking an immensely well-structured arc when Isagi started talking about "devouring his teammates" because honestly, that shit happens when egos clash. If you've ever played up top with a striker partner, you're either friendly rivals, or just rivals. After all, it's all well and good to say you're the two best strikers, but what happens when the manager wants to run a 4-5-1? Like I said, could've been great, but Isagi has started shifting away from "devouring" them and more to "using" them. Functionally identical, but one is egocentric, and the other is not.

The reason why Isagi always feels like the worst player on the field is because most times he is. On paper, he's often outmatched physically and technically. He has his first-time shooting(which as a volley guy myself, I am loving the similarities), but that's just how he capitalises on his main strength, spatial awareness. Spatial awareness is most seen in midfielders, so that's now another reason why Isagi doesn't belong in Blue Lock.

I understand that it's hard to see how he's improved sometimes, that's what happens when the difficulty scales too similarly with the skill level; it feels like nothing has changed. The author has already displayed most styles of football with at least one "rival" who caught Isagi off-guard because of it, so he's railroaded himself into the "this guy does what this guy does but better" trap.

It's not the reader's fault for believing Isagi should be more than an underdog on the field, but that's the mould the manga has him stuck in. It's from his POV most of the time so he can't be one of the best on the field, because if he was, he wouldn't be impressed by things other players are doing(ergo the author wouldn't have a reason to hype other players). He's got the mind of a midfielder(which he's very slowly breaking out from), so he'll never be on the same level as born strikers. Then, his strengths lie in utilising situations that require team play(direct shooting, spatial awareness), so he has to at least work with his teammates.

This is the structure of Isagi; he's not got the physique or the tech to assert himself selfishly, and he's not got the mental to take over a game by pulling strings. His only moments to shine are in making the most of the few scenarios he can create for himself..

Think of it like this: How many of Isagi's goals were set up for him by someone else? As in, another player purposely engaged him in a play so he could score. I can't think of any immediate examples, he either nabs the assist(because he's at best an attacking midfielder), or he seizes an opportunity. This is because nobody sees him as a constant threat the same way he sees them(even Chigiri gets a higher danger level - the Theo Walcott for god's sake). Just look at this chapter, when Shidou was running for the ball, Isagi was anticipating a pass from him, so he could then pass the ball to Rin to score.

The manga is really good, it covers football(read: soccer) in a way that hasn't been done before; focusing on a player's individual prowess and survival among others rather than sensationalising "The Beautiful Game". It's not about winning the big highschool competition, it's about becoming the best player in the locker room.

TL;DR: Isagi is an underdog in Blue Lock because he doesn't belong there. His main strengths are better applied elsewhere and he's not good enough at everything else to assert himself on anything more than a select few cases. Everything from the story progression, to his character development, to matches feeling predictable, are all side effects of this.

 

[Sonaldo]

@nivinator
What point lol? What about the matches that I listed on my first comment? Or are you going to ignore it like the rest of my points?

@RaijinWolf
Thanks for the detailed breakdown man. Glad to see someone reasonable here. Like sure some aspects of this manga is repetitive. I mean most manga especially shounen does. Like fucking hell Conan have been solving like a 10000 cases. But the matches are not as predictable as he claimed. Like in the beginning of the manga, Isagi team lost a couple of matches iirc and only got out of their group by due to a decisive tactical foul. And hell, they just finished a match against the world XI and literally nothing @nivinator said happened all the time did. Like Isagi never outplayed Loki. I mean even when you take out Isagi, some matches involving the side characters we thought would win, they didn't. Like Kunigami loses against Shidou and that long haired tactician that betrayed them didn't even made it to this level. Hell, the person we would never expect to make it ( the Neymar-esque diving monk) made it. So tell me again how this manga is predictable?

 

[nivinator]

@RaijinWolf

I really appreciate your thorough and very respectful explanation, but I already understand why Isagi is constantly the underdog in this manga. I even think it's an interesting aspect of his character that makes him different from others. It's just that after so many chapters, it's a little disappointing to see that he can never keep up with new characters that are introduced. It doesn't mean I don't understand why or that I don't appreciate the manga, but the repetitive patterns of him assimilating to his team are getting tiring after so many chapters. It's just a personal preference. Again, to make it clear, I still love the manga, I just have a few complaints of my own and I'm not asking anyone to agree with them. I thought I was free to express those opinions on a public forum, I don't know why people get their jimmies all rustled when they see opposing ideas on the internet. Thank you for taking your time to type that up, though.

 

[AnimationDude]

@RaijinWolf
Thanks for taking the time to type all that up. It’s giving me a new appreciation for them MC and what he brings to the table. Also further makes sense why he’s always in the underdog position. When a natural born midfielder tries to force himself to compete with natural strikers he’s always going to be lagging behind a bit cuz that’s THEIR territory not HIS. At the same time I think that’s what makes it fun. Cuz no match ever feels “easy” or unearned cuz Isagi always has to big brain his way outta tough spots or lose trying

 

[cherryboom07]

I feel an Aomine vibe from Shidou.

 

[Lustrist]

if i see someone naruto run irl in a soccer match im gonna lose it