Bunnie's Quest - Vol. 2 Ch. 15 - I will definitely come back

[T-sama]

@SrNevik and @SkyVentus
Good to see I'm not the only one who hates that logic that Yuri is "different" from Yaoi or het relationships, cause I honestly sometimes feel like I'm losing my mind when I see people still insist how Yuri has such supposed yT have a wide meaning when Yaoi never do same, and god forbids if it's two opposite sex characters

@Alex_Grey
The text is a edit, the page is from Citrus

TLDR: barely coherent rambles of bitter old man below, not even exagerating

@Manko-sensei
Yeah sorry but a lot of that still sounds like copium and rationalizing
I won't quote everything but I want to mention this part in particular

Mangadex, with the new website, changed some tags (in favour to English speakers) and yuri disappeared (as well as Shoujo Ai) to change it to Girl's Love (it's the literal translation about Shoujo Ai). There are different points to explain, so I'll separate them.

I'm pretty sure you have some wrong info, Girl's Love is not literal translation of Shoujo Ai, GL never had anything to do with Shoujo Ai, GL is not a thing because of western readers, it's Japanese magazines that started adding Girl's Love label, or as someone told me and I'm not sure if it's true, other Asian countries started using Girl's Love because they didn't use Yuri for girl x girl romance and Japan just started doing the same.

Either way Shoujo Ai has nothing to do with Yuri and it never will have anything to do with Yuri, it's literally related to pedophilia, there's even fucking Japanese wikipedia pages talking about how Shoujo Ai and Shounen Ai are pedoplihia stuff, Shoujo Ai use in the west is nothing but pure nonsense and completely fall apart as soon as we start talking about how Japan uses and try to classify Yuri / Girl's Love.

I'm sorry but a lot of what you said is just not convincing, like at all, but I'll make two main arguments:

1 - Even if all you say about how Yaoi and Yuri started is correct, it's still irrelevant, because it's been more or less 30 fucking years since that time, the times have changed, things have changed, their definition is honestly not really that valid anymore, how they started somply does not hold any water to what they are today.

2 - You mentioned before how things started changing after 2010, that just makes your arguments even more invalid, because it's almost 15 fucking years that LGBT mangakas pushed for Yuri to be seeing as lesbian relationships, just like Yaoi is gay relationship, 99% of people who hear Yuri will not think of just close friendship or anything like that, they will expecting girl x girl romance, is there some who use Yuri for friendship and so on? Yes, can't deny that, but they're a very small minority compared to the fact that virtually anything tagged as Yuri will be in some way about lesbians, in no small part thanks to literally entire Yuri magazines that have nothing but lesbian romance.

Kirara Time is well known for being mostly bait really, and Yuru Yuri is only Yuri due to the fact that all girls are supposed lesbians, I honestly doubt Gochiusa is Yuri at all, it's just another typical cute girls doing cute things.

Also, I'm pretty sure you're at bare minimum half wrong about idols, you said

With the same premise, "yuri sells" as a slogan for IRL idols and more because it's another form of fan service and a marketing scheme for saying "they're single and this could be you!".

It's true it is another form of fan service and markenting, but I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with "they're single and this could be you!", but rather that it's about shipping, just look at other Asian countries how both male and female idol groups have massive shipping between the members, with the idols literally taking advantage of that, hell you even see that outright mentioned in many series because it's exactly about taking advantge of fans shipping certain members.

I'm sorry, but a lot of what you say seems to be based on outdated and incomplete knowledge about Yaoi and Yuri, which makes you do some pretty bad assumptions, because at the end of the day what really matters is that for 15 years virtually all LGBT mangakas pushed for Yuri to be seeing as girl x girl romance just like Yaoi is boy x boy romance, to the point they started branding almost everything as Girl's Love too just so you can't say the story is not about romance.

I also want to point out the elephant in the room which you ignored, that this manga is also tagged as Girl's Love in Japan, and you have absolutely no argument to try say fucking Girl's Love is meant to just be close relatioship, that is not how GL was ever used and I'm pretty sure you know that, which leaves us with only two possibilites, manga was meant to be romance but was axed, or publisher tagged it wrong.

Either way again, sorry if I offend you, cause I might end up sounding rude or something even though that's not my intention, but again, your arguments sound like copium and rationalization.

I also wanna comment on this point which I almost forgot

Arrived to this point, it's easier to conclude that the acceptance of a woman as homosexual is harder than for a man because of the society, and this difference of numbers in audience explains why there has been a lot of yaoi adaptations while for yuri are the exception. Remember that many people specially in Japan expect that a woman will leave her job and relationships to have children at some point, while men can escape this social expectation.

I'm sorry but I honestly find laughable that you're unironically trying to say women as homosexual is harder for society to accept than men as homosexual, like, fucking what? Men being gay is always received harsher in all societies, to say otherwise literally flies in the face of reality, Yaoi being bigger than Yuri has nothing to do with homosexual acceptance, Yaoi is bigger because for a long time it was 100% made by straight women for straight women, only way later it started to get away from that, it simply had a infinitely bigger market than Yuri because Yuri as a genre never suffered that, almost all Yuri is not only made by women for women, but straight men in Japan simply doesn't have Yuri as a fetish like straight women have for Yaoi.

Even when Yuri was also considered close relationship a long time ago, which I honestly have my doubts how prevalent that actually was in practice, most series sold as Yuri still was about girl x girl love, with a lot of them ending in tragedy too, the dark days of Yuri, which over the years started to go away from that.

Really, that logic that Yuri is also close relationships in my opinion never really hold much water, because there is a bazillion of series then and now that have close relationship between women and not even once they promote themselves as Yuri, so in practice that use was always niche.

Hell, just stop and think about that, why would a Japanese women would look for Yuri for close relationship between women when they can literally find that in a lot of Shoujo and Josei, independent if either have romance in the story? Why would straight women get into a genre also known for lesbian relationships when they can just read the usual genres? Why is it that only Yuri gets diluted to include stuff that you can find just as easily and more frequent in other genres?

Just to reinforme my argument on how that's nonsense, you tried to argue that Yaoi is bigger because man as homosexual is more accepted, which is pure nonsense really, it's due to being made by straight women for women, the opposite holds true for Yuri, why is Yuri so niche by comparison? Exactly because it's not like Yaoi on that sense, straight men in Japan will simply want het relationships, especially if hentai, so Yuri was not first and foremost a fetish like Yaoi was for a long time, if anything Yuri is vast majority made explicitly by LGBT women for LGBT women.

For real, just go look and compare the fanbases, literally both in the West and in Japan, Yaoi fandom will be 90% straight women taking the genre completely in a fetishistic way, while Yuri fandom will probably be like 60% to 70% LGBT women and the rest straight people of both sexes who like them for the actual romance rather than fetish, cause really, straight men will simply not read actual Yuri for fetish, when they want that they go for hentai.

Anyway, I'm just rambling by now and probably barely being coherent, sorry but you just gave no arguments at all to justify calling Yuri close relationship between women, this is not the 70's, 80's, 90's, early 2000 or whatever decade you choose, we're at fucking 2024, for at least 15 fucking years Yuri / GL mangakas pushed for the genre to be seeing as girl x girl romance just like Yaoi is always seeing as boy x boy romance, which to repeat myself, it's also why they started branding everything as fucking Girl's Love to begin with, anyone in japan who still tries to say Yuri is just close relationship between women litereally have no fucking clue on what the genre became.

And just to make my point, I dare anyone to go get 10 series, be it manga or light novel, that are not meant to be romance in any way at all, but still gets promoted as Yuri, recent ish series, not something from like 20 years ago, go on, I'll wait, you won't find them, because even fucking publishers only tag as Yuri / GL something that is intendend to girl x girl romance, is there exceptions? Of course, but at this point the genre and market is pretty solidified on what Yuri is, much less fucking Girl's Love.

Really, as @SrNevik said Yuri is the only genre where the author don't give a straight answer and start talking about what is the meaning of Yuri, which just made me realize, everyone who does that is seemingly a straight women or a men, not only that, they also doesn't seem to ever have any LGBT works either, is that a coincidence?

I'm serious, honestly asking, Yuri as a genre started more subtle and nod always straightfoward that it's girl x girl romance, but that pretty quickly changed, with the passing of the years becoming more and more explicitly about romance rather than close friendship, so to follow my question above I want to ask this to everyone, have you ever seeing any actual Yuri author, people who write girl x girl romance, who for the most part is almost always a LGBT women, ever say at all that Yuri is also close relationship between women? I honestly have never heard of it.

Really makes you think on who is trying to keep Yuri as not gay while we have a massive movement of authors pushing for Yuri to be recognized as girl x girl romance first and foremost.

And before anyone tries to use Futari Escape as an argument, the mangaka for it is not a Yuri mangaka, i think at best he has just other two one shot in Yuri magazine, which I didn't read, everything else he did is het work, and his next work The Pension Life Vampire is just as baity without even being tagged as Yuri or being published in a Yuri magazie.

Really, him saying that bullshit of "a trained eye can see yuri everywhere" sounds like damage control, if you need to clarify outside of the story that the characters are gay, it's pretty clear the story was so fucking vague you could argue they're not gay at all, sounds like another "Dumbledore is gay" incident where the story gives not even one single proof he's gay and only reason we know he's gay is because author said so.

And just to make a point on Futari Escape? It got a sequel, Motto! Futari Escape, it's not in a Yuri magazine, that sure says a lot doesn't it? I'm honestly gonna be surprised if we get anything showing they're a couple, because everything they do is 100% regular stuff they could do as friends.

Seriously, Yuri is the only genre that some people still try to dilute, you'll never see that with Yaoi or with het romance, or when it's not that they you need to be master detective like Batman to get all the clues to at the end know if maybe the girls are gay and in love with each other, and you still might end with a fucking maybe.

Nah, fuck that, for 15 fucking years there's a push for Yuri to be nothing but girl x girl romance, a very clear and planned push by some big names, but even if you ignore them you can easily see that everything tagged and marketed as Yuri is 99.9% of the time clearly romance by actual Yuri mangakas, to say Yuri still is close relationships simply goes against the reality, that for decades now the genre kept changing and the old definition is used by such a small minority that it's not even relevant.

 

[Manko-sensei]

@T-sama you don't have to agree or disagree with what I said regarding why Japanese publishers consider one thing yuri (when it comes to tagging they stick to 百合), it's simply impossible to understand why series as such still exist in nowadays series if you don't know where it comes from. And you mixed audience and the reason why yuri series encompasses an age that usually ends by the 25s. The only thing about sexuality acceptance is that a Japanese man has not nearly the same pressure to having offsping than women and they can go unmarried without a defined sexual life for a long time and nobody is going to question them, whereas they would constantly gossip about women and their private life. The audience difference comes from the amount of yaoi fandom that has existed from far before and the number of artists that has, even with the derogatory terms for a Japanese woman for liking yaoi, the amount of readers is huge and from different generations, to which is added the male readers. In contrast, yuri has needed more time to gain readers and on average they pale in comparison (I'm only talking about the Japanese market) to their yaoi counterparts, besides the fact that the main audience for yuri was men and only nowadays they're close to be even. Even though, for instance Muromaki when she went to a convention in Germany told that, despite writing for young girls and women, the fans that had been showing up are mostly wherever she went (I don't remember if she said like a 70%) were 20-30 years old men. And like I was saying, that also shows in anime adaptations, where yuri series has been scarce and low budget (we couldn't even finish watching Sasakoi adaptation).
And since you're so insistent, Girl's Love is an anglicism Japanese people use, happy now? I am perfectly aware but something existing and being used to catalogue works is different. And the fact that Shoujo/Shonen Ai has had other connotations doesn't exclude that 少女 means young girl and 少年 is young boy, plus 愛 which is love, and they were being used in Western manga webpages as "subtext" in the past, because I've read those tags cataloguing the same works that nowadays have a different label (probably because of that other use). Having said that, what you're being oblivious of is that the same publishers through their editors decide when taking in an author or not which is going to be their focus, that's why doujinshi circles has been so important since they had no one deciding to which extent show explicitness for manga, novels and visual novels. Deciding that a work is yuri or not regarding their explicitness is pure etnocentrism, specially when important details are lost during the translation process and are made to localise said content for the general English reader. And you can find yuri bait and fan service in works that are not catalogued as yuri by them, the problem raises when extra tags are added by Westerners. Every magazine has its own criteria for publishing stuff, and regardless which of the main yuri publishers we talk about none of them are monothematic. They diversify to try making all the series sell, if all of them were content-wise the same people would just pick one or two and stick to them, or even get bored and drop the magazine completely, and that's pure business.
Knowing all that choose what you read depending on your preferences, I am the kind of enjoying the most straight-forward ones such as Oku Tamamushi titles and the most ambiguous ones, seeing the characters realising or not of their sexuality is part of the enjoyment. That doesn't mean I read everything, there are series where you can smell from the first chapter that the author has no intention on depicting any yuri/girl's love/lesbian relationship and others where it's your straight couple but changing the sex of one character, for that the demographic also helps, as well checking previous works. Not to add that I'm not a fan of those old works that existed when no other yuri was available. But all of that is just experience, particular knowledge and reading comprehension (which includes empathy). Just remember this is not Dynasty.

 

[kkakasih]

Thats a cute story

 

[Orangechrisy]

Shoujo-Ai is not a thing, long story short long ago some filthy gaijin decided that they had to separate explicit gay works from safe works, so they decided that Yaoi / Yuri is explicit while Shounen-Ai / Shoujo-Ai are safe stuff + those that are just subtext, there's no such thing in Japan, they don't make that distinction, either something is tagged as Yaoi / Yuri or it's not.

In Japan Shoune-Ai and Shoujo-Ai are related to pedophilia.

If I had to guess the use of Shounen-Ai in the west probably came from the fact that Yaoi also gets tagged as Boy's Love, which the same filthy gaijing probably rationalized that Boy = Shounen and Love = Ai, with Shoujo-Ai as the Yuri equivalent, also pretty sure Boy's Love is almost as old as Yaoi while Girl's Love was created recently so people know for sure the Yuri manga is indeed romance without any doubt, since some still use Yuri for close relationships between two woman that aren't romance.

I honestly don't remember the details well, so if I'm wrong and someone knows better do correct me.

Just want to point out that shounen-ai is an actual term that started in Japan for BL stuff, the reason we call it BL nowadays is cause the English translation of shounen-ai was used and caught on, but shounen-ai came first. Shoujo-ai is not at all the same, and is specifically just about pedophilia (shounen-ai also kinda originally meant that before magazines and whatnot brought it to this new meaning, but the same did not happen for shoujo-ai) and it is a term that was only used in the west because some westerners went "well yaoi/BL has shounen-ai so yuri should have shoujo-ai surely nothing can go wrong here :]".

GL became a term due to the Japan side seeing the term BL gain more popularity and decided to copy it over to yuri (this also happened after westerners started using shoujo-ai but is unrelated as far as I can tell). Though it should also be pointed out that BL had like, multiple different terms with slightly different meanings and implications and BL as a term was kinda meant as a "steal the foreign translation and use that as the new standard term". Meanwhile there weren't really "alternate" yuri terms, everything was called yuri, both erotica and vague romantic subtext both were yuri, so magazines started using GL mostly to be copycats.

Anyways this whole argument is dumb, yaoi and yuri cover different things because they have different histories, with BL gaining a lot of traction in the 70s and multiple magazines around it while yuri continued to mostly exist through yuri fans of other series (aka mostly just getting subtextual crumbs) until Maria-sama ga Miteru made there be enough popularity for a magazine around 2000 and much of the early manga explicitly labeled yuri were trying to copy Marimite and its heavily subtextual basis. This is why subtextual or stuff with barely a hint of romance still ends up as yuri while you don't see that as much with yaoi, because the genres grew and evolved differently. (Also this isn't like, cope, this is just how the words work, calling it yuri doesn't mean it can't be criticized for being yuri without explicit romance in this day and age.)

Also this feels like it was most definitely axed anyways, the mangaka's previous work, Love Me For Who I Am, is extremely explicitly queer, and this manga feels like it was trying to just be a slower burn cut short.

 

[T-sama]

@Orangechrisy
You do bring some new stuff to the table that I didn't know, so I can't properly refute you without doing some research first

Anyways this whole argument is dumb

Well this is the internet, would it ever be any different?

Also this feels like it was most definitely axed anyways, the mangaka's previous work, Love Me For Who I Am, is extremely explicitly queer, and this manga feels like it was trying to just be a slower burn cut short.

Yeah, no way mangaka planned to end there, it's unfortunate really

@Manko-sensei
I didn't want to write another barely coherent ramble so I didn't formulate a reply yet, so for now let's agree to disagree, I might post something later

Again sorry if I offended you or was too rude, it happens sometimes when discussion gets heated

Either way

the video is a joke lol

 

[Manko-sensei]

@T-sama like I said, no offence at all, @Orangechrisy explained that part better. I probably don't get disappointed by the series because I see what I'm getting into, and I read yaoi as well for different reasons as it was mentioned, I simply stick to the terms I can easily search stuff in Japanese pages. I also expected a slow burn but axe-kun did its job, and I was precisely interested in the work due the author, not because of the moe art. If sales in Japanese stores weren't about everything we would have at least completed series and series not unnecessarely expanded (everyone knows which best-sellers are in this category), but we have to deal with what we get. I only hope the author's next work doesn't get cut off, whichever genre they choose.

 

[Orangechrisy]

You do bring some new stuff to the table that I didn't know, so I can't properly refute you without doing some research first

Luckily refutation isn't necessary : p (nor possible I don't think, but if I was wrong there somewhere I'm always up for learning more)

 

[LilithRaven]

I dont read Yaoi, but does Yaoi series have this low life expectancy as yuri series? Or Himejoshi are all brokies (including me)

i see so MANY Yaoi in my bato

I might get fire for it but I'll ask anyway, why is this tagged as Girl's Love? Was it even  promoted as GL / Yuri by the publisher or mangaka? Can't help but feel it's another Liar Satsuki incident, where someone tagged it as such even though it's not.

And before anyone try argue back, let's not kid ourselves, this is at best subtext, typical cute girls doing cute things, nothing actually happened when it ccomes to romance and you all know it.

yeah, people/authors for the most dumb reasons, they will couple girls doing cute girls thing as equal with girls fucking girls!

yet again showing that for Yaoi and it’s MANY different japanese definitions that literally mean the same thing, clear distinction in gay men relationships!!!

hell there is even a clear distinction on bromance(or whatever the name for subtext) vs yaoi!! in china and Korea

but not for Yuri! it can mean girls doing school club activities together to bloody women doing “club” activities with another women in the bathroom of a club!!!

 

[LilithRaven]

@SrNevik and @SkyVentus
Good to see I'm not the only one who hates that logic that Yuri is "different" from Yaoi or het relationships, cause I honestly sometimes feel like I'm losing my mind when I see people still insist how Yuri has such supposed yT have a wide meaning when Yaoi never do same, and god forbids if it's two opposite sex characters

@Alex_Grey
The text is a edit, the page is from Citrus

TLDR: barely coherent rambles of bitter old man below, not even exagerating

@Manko-sensei
Yeah sorry but a lot of that still sounds like copium and rationalizing
I won't quote everything but I want to mention this part in particular

I'm pretty sure you have some wrong info, Girl's Love is not literal translation of Shoujo Ai, GL never had anything to do with Shoujo Ai, GL is not a thing because of western readers, it's Japanese magazines that started adding Girl's Love label, or as someone told me and I'm not sure if it's true, other Asian countries started using Girl's Love because they didn't use Yuri for girl x girl romance and Japan just started doing the same.

Either way Shoujo Ai has nothing to do with Yuri and it never will have anything to do with Yuri, it's literally related to pedophilia, there's even fucking Japanese wikipedia pages talking about how Shoujo Ai and Shounen Ai are pedoplihia stuff, Shoujo Ai use in the west is nothing but pure nonsense and completely fall apart as soon as we start talking about how Japan uses and try to classify Yuri / Girl's Love.

I'm sorry but a lot of what you said is just not convincing, like at all, but I'll make two main arguments:

1 - Even if all you say about how Yaoi and Yuri started is correct, it's still irrelevant, because it's been more or less 30 fucking years since that time, the times have changed, things have changed, their definition is honestly not really that valid anymore, how they started somply does not hold any water to what they are today.

2 - You mentioned before how things started changing after 2010, that just makes your arguments even more invalid, because it's almost 15 fucking years that LGBT mangakas pushed for Yuri to be seeing as lesbian relationships, just like Yaoi is gay relationship, 99% of people who hear Yuri will not think of just close friendship or anything like that, they will expecting girl x girl romance, is there some who use Yuri for friendship and so on? Yes, can't deny that, but they're a very small minority compared to the fact that virtually anything tagged as Yuri will be in some way about lesbians, in no small part thanks to literally entire Yuri magazines that have nothing but lesbian romance.

Kirara Time is well known for being mostly bait really, and Yuru Yuri is only Yuri due to the fact that all girls are supposed lesbians, I honestly doubt Gochiusa is Yuri at all, it's just another typical cute girls doing cute things.

Also, I'm pretty sure you're at bare minimum half wrong about idols, you said

It's true it is another form of fan service and markenting, but I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with "they're single and this could be you!", but rather that it's about shipping, just look at other Asian countries how both male and female idol groups have massive shipping between the members, with the idols literally taking advantage of that, hell you even see that outright mentioned in many series because it's exactly about taking advantge of fans shipping certain members.

I'm sorry, but a lot of what you say seems to be based on outdated and incomplete knowledge about Yaoi and Yuri, which makes you do some pretty bad assumptions, because at the end of the day what really matters is that for 15 years virtually all LGBT mangakas pushed for Yuri to be seeing as girl x girl romance just like Yaoi is boy x boy romance, to the point they started branding almost everything as Girl's Love too just so you can't say the story is not about romance.

I also want to point out the elephant in the room which you ignored, that this manga is also tagged as Girl's Love in Japan, and you have absolutely no argument to try say fucking Girl's Love is meant to just be close relatioship, that is not how GL was ever used and I'm pretty sure you know that, which leaves us with only two possibilites, manga was meant to be romance but was axed, or publisher tagged it wrong.

Either way again, sorry if I offend you, cause I might end up sounding rude or something even though that's not my intention, but again, your arguments sound like copium and rationalization.

I also wanna comment on this point which I almost forgot

I'm sorry but I honestly find laughable that you're unironically trying to say women as homosexual is harder for society to accept than men as homosexual, like, fucking what? Men being gay is always received harsher in all societies, to say otherwise literally flies in the face of reality, Yaoi being bigger than Yuri has nothing to do with homosexual acceptance, Yaoi is bigger because for a long time it was 100% made by straight women for straight women, only way later it started to get away from that, it simply had a infinitely bigger market than Yuri because Yuri as a genre never suffered that, almost all Yuri is not only made by women for women, but straight men in Japan simply doesn't have Yuri as a fetish like straight women have for Yaoi.

Even when Yuri was also considered close relationship a long time ago, which I honestly have my doubts how prevalent that actually was in practice, most series sold as Yuri still was about girl x girl love, with a lot of them ending in tragedy too, the dark days of Yuri, which over the years started to go away from that.

Really, that logic that Yuri is also close relationships in my opinion never really hold much water, because there is a bazillion of series then and now that have close relationship between women and not even once they promote themselves as Yuri, so in practice that use was always niche.

Hell, just stop and think about that, why would a Japanese women would look for Yuri for close relationship between women when they can literally find that in a lot of Shoujo and Josei, independent if either have romance in the story? Why would straight women get into a genre also known for lesbian relationships when they can just read the usual genres? Why is it that only Yuri gets diluted to include stuff that you can find just as easily and more frequent in other genres?

Just to reinforme my argument on how that's nonsense, you tried to argue that Yaoi is bigger because man as homosexual is more accepted, which is pure nonsense really, it's due to being made by straight women for women, the opposite holds true for Yuri, why is Yuri so niche by comparison? Exactly because it's not like Yaoi on that sense, straight men in Japan will simply want het relationships, especially if hentai, so Yuri was not first and foremost a fetish like Yaoi was for a long time, if anything Yuri is vast majority made explicitly by LGBT women for LGBT women.

For real, just go look and compare the fanbases, literally both in the West and in Japan, Yaoi fandom will be 90% straight women taking the genre completely in a fetishistic way, while Yuri fandom will probably be like 60% to 70% LGBT women and the rest straight people of both sexes who like them for the actual romance rather than fetish, cause really, straight men will simply not read actual Yuri for fetish, when they want that they go for hentai.

Anyway, I'm just rambling by now and probably barely being coherent, sorry but you just gave no arguments at all to justify calling Yuri close relationship between women, this is not the 70's, 80's, 90's, early 2000 or whatever decade you choose, we're at fucking 2024, for at least 15 fucking years Yuri / GL mangakas pushed for the genre to be seeing as girl x girl romance just like Yaoi is always seeing as boy x boy romance, which to repeat myself, it's also why they started branding everything as fucking Girl's Love to begin with, anyone in japan who still tries to say Yuri is just close relationship between women litereally have no fucking clue on what the genre became.

And just to make my point, I dare anyone to go get 10 series, be it manga or light novel, that are not meant to be romance in any way at all, but still gets promoted as Yuri, recent ish series, not something from like 20 years ago, go on, I'll wait, you won't find them, because even fucking publishers only tag as Yuri / GL something that is intendend to girl x girl romance, is there exceptions? Of course, but at this point the genre and market is pretty solidified on what Yuri is, much less fucking Girl's Love.

Really, as @SrNevik said Yuri is the only genre where the author don't give a straight answer and start talking about what is the meaning of Yuri, which just made me realize, everyone who does that is seemingly a straight women or a men, not only that, they also doesn't seem to ever have any LGBT works either, is that a coincidence?

I'm serious, honestly asking, Yuri as a genre started more subtle and nod always straightfoward that it's girl x girl romance, but that pretty quickly changed, with the passing of the years becoming more and more explicitly about romance rather than close friendship, so to follow my question above I want to ask this to everyone, have you ever seeing any actual Yuri author, people who write girl x girl romance, who for the most part is almost always a LGBT women, ever say at all that Yuri is also close relationship between women? I honestly have never heard of it.

Really makes you think on who is trying to keep Yuri as not gay while we have a massive movement of authors pushing for Yuri to be recognized as girl x girl romance first and foremost.

And before anyone tries to use Futari Escape as an argument, the mangaka for it is not a Yuri mangaka, i think at best he has just other two one shot in Yuri magazine, which I didn't read, everything else he did is het work, and his next work The Pension Life Vampire is just as baity without even being tagged as Yuri or being published in a Yuri magazie.

Really, him saying that bullshit of "a trained eye can see yuri everywhere" sounds like damage control, if you need to clarify outside of the story that the characters are gay, it's pretty clear the story was so fucking vague you could argue they're not gay at all, sounds like another "Dumbledore is gay" incident where the story gives not even one single proof he's gay and only reason we know he's gay is because author said so.

And just to make a point on Futari Escape? It got a sequel, Motto! Futari Escape, it's not in a Yuri magazine, that sure says a lot doesn't it? I'm honestly gonna be surprised if we get anything showing they're a couple, because everything they do is 100% regular stuff they could do as friends.

Seriously, Yuri is the only genre that some people still try to dilute, you'll never see that with Yaoi or with het romance, or when it's not that they you need to be master detective like Batman to get all the clues to at the end know if maybe the girls are gay and in love with each other, and you still might end with a fucking maybe.

Nah, fuck that, for 15 fucking years there's a push for Yuri to be nothing but girl x girl romance, a very clear and planned push by some big names, but even if you ignore them you can easily see that everything tagged and marketed as Yuri is 99.9% of the time clearly romance by actual Yuri mangakas, to say Yuri still is close relationships simply goes against the reality, that for decades now the genre kept changing and the old definition is used by such a small minority that it's not even relevant.

I love you for this Master Class Comment <3

 

[recklessribbon]

This was super cute! Thanks for the translations!