Casual chatting thread

jc9

jc9

Dex-chan lover
Joined
Oct 6, 2024
Messages
39
MinecraftStoryModeLover said:
so is the point that vaping could be worse because we haven't studied it or that because we know what tobacco does more thoroughly we shouldn't be as concerned?
Click to expand...
I wouldn't say we have no info about effects of vaping. We don't have as much as tobacco, but we have a lot (and we probably can assume some things too)
Vape juice is basically 3 main ingredients:
  • glycerol
  • glycol
  • nicotine
This alone is enough, and i think we have enough studies for the effects of these 3 components alone (at least how they effect human body, and what happens with them at temperatures we talk here about).
If we add flavoring, then we have another can of worms - there are hundreds of possible compounds, but you can use food grade flavoring, like stuff you add to cakes and which was studied enough to be food grade.
As we know burning tobacco releases hundreds of different compounds.
In vapes you don't burn anything (just heat it so mix of glycerol/glycol can vaporize) - so lots of different chemical reactions that would happen in case of burning simply don't happen at all (or happen negligible amounts). Well there's also possibility that one flavor will get into reaction with different one, because there's non zero probability of that.

I've seen few main problems with vapes mentioned:
  • findings of toxic flavoring added (which seemed to be rather rare and is easily avoidable, as food grade stuff is readily available for hundreds of different flavors and extremely cheap)
  • studies that found some concerning chemicals being released, but these were performed on basically dry atomizers with way too much power.
  • people consuming more nicotine than they were with traditional cigarettes/fueling nicotine addiction (valid from use vapes to quit pov, partially irrelevant from vapes as alternative to smoking pov)
  • easily accessible to kids (as if normal cigarettes weren't)/trendy to kids/easier for kids to get addicted as they don't taste horrible at first as cigarettes do.

There's also argument that vaping is around for 20 years. AFAIK we have no epidemic of new cases of lung cancer (or other diseases that could be linked to vaping) in people who never smoked tobacco and only vaped. So we can assume that if there are any serious, widespread, adverse effects, they do not manifest in at least 20 years (probably even more, as statistics alone would mean we'd get first cases of unlucky people long before that). And we don't have big tobacco to lobby to hide these harmful effects like with traditional cigarettes.

I won't say vaping is GOOD for you - it's not, and there are studies that show that. But the main question should not be if vaping is good or bad - it should be how bad it's compared to tobacco. And from what limited info we have, it IMO points that vaping is at least several times LESS harmful that tobacco, which would make it viable, less harmful alternative to smoking for people who don't want to/can't quit.
And speaking from personal experience - over the last 16 years i've smoked pack-two for 12 years (with one 2 year break once, then later on 2 from month to 3 months long - always went back to smoking finally). for ~2 years now i use vapes and first haven't had urge to smoke (so it's effective in dealing with nicotine addiction), and second i actually feel better.
 
MinecraftStoryModeLover

MinecraftStoryModeLover

Dex-chan lover
Joined
May 29, 2023
Messages
1,422
jc9 said:
I wouldn't say we have no info about effects of vaping. We don't have as much as tobacco, but we have a lot (and we probably can assume some things too)
Vape juice is basically 3 main ingredients:
  • glycerol
  • glycol
  • nicotine
This alone is enough, and i think we have enough studies for the effects of these 3 components alone (at least how they effect human body, and what happens with them at temperatures we talk here about).
If we add flavoring, then we have another can of worms - there are hundreds of possible compounds, but you can use food grade flavoring, like stuff you add to cakes and which was studied enough to be food grade.
As we know burning tobacco releases hundreds of different compounds.
In vapes you don't burn anything (just heat it so mix of glycerol/glycol can vaporize) - so lots of different chemical reactions that would happen in case of burning simply don't happen at all (or happen negligible amounts). Well there's also possibility that one flavor will get into reaction with different one, because there's non zero probability of that.

I've seen few main problems with vapes mentioned:
  • findings of toxic flavoring added (which seemed to be rather rare and is easily avoidable, as food grade stuff is readily available for hundreds of different flavors and extremely cheap)
  • studies that found some concerning chemicals being released, but these were performed on basically dry atomizers with way too much power.
  • people consuming more nicotine than they were with traditional cigarettes/fueling nicotine addiction (valid from use vapes to quit pov, partially irrelevant from vapes as alternative to smoking pov)
  • easily accessible to kids (as if normal cigarettes weren't)/trendy to kids/easier for kids to get addicted as they don't taste horrible at first as cigarettes do.

There's also argument that vaping is around for 20 years. AFAIK we have no epidemic of new cases of lung cancer (or other diseases that could be linked to vaping) in people who never smoked tobacco and only vaped. So we can assume that if there are any serious, widespread, adverse effects, they do not manifest in at least 20 years (probably even more, as statistics alone would mean we'd get first cases of unlucky people long before that). And we don't have big tobacco to lobby to hide these harmful effects like with traditional cigarettes.

I won't say vaping is GOOD for you - it's not, and there are studies that show that. But the main question should not be if vaping is good or bad - it should be how bad it's compared to tobacco. And from what limited info we have, it IMO points that vaping is at least several times LESS harmful that tobacco, which would make it viable, less harmful alternative to smoking for people who don't want to/can't quit.
And speaking from personal experience - over the last 16 years i've smoked pack-two for 12 years (with one 2 year break once, then later on 2 from month to 3 months long - always went back to smoking finally). for ~2 years now i use vapes and first haven't had urge to smoke (so it's effective in dealing with nicotine addiction), and second i actually feel better.
Click to expand...
What an insightful post from somebody I've never met before. Thank you for all of your wisdom and for sharing everything that you know, especially in such a concise way. Do you think that the reason why you haven't had the urge to smoke is because of the nicotine including in vaping products? So you aren't going through withdrawal. Also I make the same assumption as you and assume flavors of vape are ones that have already been in use for other purposes
 
robertelch

robertelch

Contributor
Joined
Aug 13, 2024
Messages
782
BakedBanana said:
So far we've had two people dress similarly to their pfp character, coincidence? I think not! @Data_Gold, you're a bee in the real world, aren't you?!
p2zbr8.png


Yeah, I'm blowing this case right open.
p6zlvi.png
Click to expand...
I dress very unlike my PFP though
 
Manko-sensei

Manko-sensei

Contributor
Joined
Mar 6, 2019
Messages
3,134
@jc9 maybe you forgot to add it, but there are effects on vaping similar to regular smoking which are lung performance deficiency and its consequences on breathing (such as aggravated asthma). Vaping for young people has become the door to consume nicotine products and they're essentially tobacco smokers in training. Of course, some vapers keep using them and are more attached than average people to cigarettes, but even without the 200 additives a traditional cigarette has time is only showing how similar is.
 
jc9

jc9

Dex-chan lover
Joined
Oct 6, 2024
Messages
39
MinecraftStoryModeLover said:
Do you think that the reason why you haven't had the urge to smoke is because of the nicotine including in vaping products? So you aren't going through withdrawal.
Click to expand...
Well yeah, that was basically my "easy" goal - stay being addicted to nicotine and just consume it in a way that is killing me slower.
Could've been more precise - when i mention urge to smoke i mean smoke traditional cigarettes, not urge to consume nicotine (that is still present because i'm still addicted).
MinecraftStoryModeLover said:
Also I make the same assumption as you and assume flavors of vape are ones that have already been in use for other purposes
Click to expand...
well i mix my own liquids, mostly because of cost - when i started vaping it cost me less than 1/4 of the money i used to spend on cigarettes, after my country rised taxes it was like 3/4 so i was like no way i can just buy off the shelf (so i don't pay tax at all, hehe) nicotine in amounts that will last me for a year or two, glycerol/glycol (which is piss cheap) and flavoring from a store that sells only food flavoring.
result is i know what's in there AND it costs me like 1/10 of a pack of cigarettes for a bottle that lasts 2 days easily (essentially it's almost free).
 
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