Chainsaw Man - Ch. 210 - Peace

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She went into that alleyway ready to cut Denji's balls off and came out of it having gotten him off. It was the second time she ended up making out with him, by her own will.

Yoru's actual character does not fit anywhere in your proposition. This also completely ignores that Denji came to the conclusion that he was more emotionally gratified by the alleyway session than physically gratified, and that this only endeared him more to Asa/Yoru. It ignores the interplay between him, Asa (who wanted to save him), and Yoru (who at this point only cared about fighting Chainsawman-- not turning him into a weapon-- a goal compatible with Asa's wanting to save him).

Asa also doesn't fit here, despite her feelings for Denji being at least part of the reason why Yoru has been kissing him-- it's strangely apt that your proposition doesn't even use their names.

"Your proposition completely ignores (something you explicitly mentioned) " k

This is pretty easily some of the least subtle political commentary I've seen; equally unsubtle is your insistence on denying the obvious because you don't like Fujimoto's message and just want to derail the discussion
 
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Im still surprised you can just reinvent the concept after it was eaten but meanwhile ears literally disappeared from all over the world.

Also yeah peak chapter.

Time for bomb to come back and start some terrorism.
 
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"Your proposition completely ignores (something you explicitly mentioned) " k
You mentioned none of what I talked about.

Point to me where you mentioned anything about Yoru's feelings towards Denji.

Point to me where you mentioned anything about Asa.

Point to me where you mentioned anything about Denji's emotional fulfillment from getting jacked off by a girl he liked, even though he had ostensibly been hunting for sex up to that point.

Your interpretation is ad hoc and reduces fleshed out characters into propaganda elements, contrary to the narrative at hand. You can't define the criteria for what constitutes political commentary, and the ill-fittingness of the political commentary you propose is afoot is exposed by an alleyway handjob-- an alleyway handjob that has way more to do with a theme that's been running since Part 1.

You didn't even mention that Denji was in the mindspace he was at the time because he got distracted by sex when-- for all he knew at the time-- Nayuta could have been dead, but then, Nayuta's character also isn't accommodated by whatever your interpretational framework is.
 
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It wouldn't even be a substantial commentary. It doesn't indicate anything. It would mean something if the USA was enamored with the physical manifestation of war, but it's the other way around. Does that mean that the United States can't help but attract war, especially since they created the atomic bomb? Or is the point that war is as American as baseball is Japanese?

There's no political commentary here-- just components that look like they might altogether constitute some take-home message if you already assume there was supposed to be one. The only clear communication is that Yoru loves America and (supposedly) not Denji like she led us to believe this entire time, because America made her top guy.
Yoru herself states that she loves America because "...America made me powerful, terrifying and attractive".
America is the main contributor to Yoru being so powerful. America etched the fear of war into humankind.
Not only that, in this universe, they invented the nuclear bomb twice.
The chapter ends with the physical manifestation of war singing Star-Sprangled Banner over the image of charred corpses, destroyed cities and orphans.
A couple of pages back, we have people cheering on a live feed of the nuclear bombs dropping that's being displayed on billboards.

Yeah, if we boil down the message, it is "America is bad because they like war", that's why I said it's not a particularly deep commentary, but it is one nonetheless.
 
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Yoru herself states that she loves America because "...America made me powerful, terrifying and attractive".
America is the main contributor to Yoru being so powerful. America etched the fear of war into humankind.
Not only that, in this universe, they invented the nuclear bomb twice.
1. I want to make sure to stress that I've discussed all this, myself, unprompted.

2. America didn't etch the fear of war into humankind by itself, however substantially it contributed to it. The fear of war has to be as ancient as humankind. Yoru became substantially powerful on account of the rising fear of war well before America got re-involved in the narrative, just off of what was happening in Japan on account of the Chainsawman cult and the Fire Devil-- talk less of the global consequences of the first showing of the Falling Devil.

3. The symbolic mechanics implicit in your analysis (for lack of more concise terming) aren't consistent. It's not America fawning over the War Devil, it's the War Devil fawning over America because America made war scary for people... but all this is supposed to mean "America is bad because it likes war", and not "America attracts war"... even though the narrative is presenting the narrative that War likes America because of things America did. Yoru can sing "America the Beautiful" at the Super Bowl while Castle Bravo II gets dropped on Harare-- that's secondary to the core of the proposed interpretation that War is fawning over America but we're supposed to understand this as symbolic of America liking war.

4. Despite #3, if we're supposed to understand that there's supposed to be the message of "America likes war and is bad because of it" because Americans were cheering at nuclear bombs being dropped on the USSR (presumably still an enemy of the States in this timeline), what are we supposed to make of Japanese citizens being depicted as being gung-ho about killing a kid (Nayuta) randomly accused of being a witch by some stranger (Barem)? What do we make of them wanting to kill Denji when he transformed into Chainsawman to cut up a bunch of devils in front of them, despite two women vouching for his killing devils at other times, one of them-- a Public Safety worker-- specifically saying he's not an enemy? What do we make of Denji (arguably a Japanese citizen) wanting to be Chainsawman partly because he enjoys the violence he partakes in while being Chainsawman? What are we supposed to make of the fact that Japan was participating in a competitive multi-nation operation to hoard as much of the Gun Devil as possible for the sake of war, or that the American president very solemnly used its portion of the Gun Devil in a bid to stop Makima-- who was an agent of the Japanese government?

5. The implicitly proposed symbolic mechanics dispense with everything about Yoru's character except for the fact that she embodies the fear of war. We're supposed to understand the message as "America is bad because it likes war" even though this is War liking America, but what are the symbolic implications of War overtly liking Denji? Probably anything that tries to coerce the aforementioned "everything" into the proposed political commentary then dispenses with nearly anything about other characters (if the propositions even acknowledge they exist); I've discussed one of many such examples with another commenter above.

All this proposes that this manga has in the truest sense become anti-American and anti-war propaganda, dispensing not only with the depth of its narrative but also the depths of its characters... but isn't even doing that in a coherent way.


Now, me, I'm a bit different.

Personally, I think Fujimoto wanted to do a bizarre kind of funny, but also be a little provocative.
 
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Japan hasn't been at war because Japan literally can't be at war. They have effectively been demilitarized.

The Korean War and The Persian Gulf War were defensive wars where US allies were attacked. They were not initiated by America.
Nearly every conflict outside of Vietnam and the War on Terror was a joint UN or NATO operation that was not necessarily initiated by America.
Which part about War likes wars do you not get? Defensive wars on the other side of the planet (lol) or just plain landgrabs, it's all the same to Yoru, as long as it's a war it's all good.
 
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This is what's getting me about this conversation-- most of the people who've taken objection to my position here (admittedly, there's only a few who've done so by response) immediately jumped into unwarranted personal attacks... while stating no more information or argument than what I already assessed. Now, you're insulting me while repeating yourself and me, as if I didn't say what you're pointing out only to argue that it doesn't constitute "political commentary".

At the risk of sounding insulting, myself, the people I see on the internet with this temperament are compensating for an irrational insecurity that they alleviate by trying to cast the media they consume as deeper than it is. Sometimes they don't even appreciate said media's true depths, because they think "mature" is "politics" and psychology concepts.

Yes, I already dissected this, and I already knew you didn't see the comment where I first did because you only quoted the first comment I made. My point has been that any derivable "take-home" statement from the sequence would necessarily be aggressively banal, and I altogether made four hypothetical intended statements in an attempt to understand the perspective.

"America is War's favorite place" is not political commentary. That's what's stated by Yoru, and the reason given by Yoru is that it gave her much of her strength (and beauty). We understand this to be the case as it's juxtaposed with Americans reconstructing nuclear weapons from scratch and using them, even though Chainsawman erased nuclear weapons. The nuclear bomb is perhaps the deadliest class of warfare weaponry, and we also understand that America has been at the vanguard of warfare R&D for nearly a century.

These are utterly basic, historical, and effectively objective statements that aren't going to be reasonably disputed. Probably except for-- ironically-- political reasons. It's of more substance that Yoru (the War Devil, the character) mystically remembered she's an Ameriboo. Also as stated, you would be able to better make the argument that political commentary was afoot if America was depicted as desiring the War Devil-- the inverse of what is in the chapter.

This being understood as political commentary implies an unclear standard for how we're supposed to understand Yoru as a character, because it degrades her into an allegorical symbol when she largely has never been written that way throughout Part 2 (and in fact, practically none of the devils are, despite being based on fears of concepts). When do we understand her as symbol, and when do we understand her as a character, if this is the threshold at which we consider political commentary to be occurring? I can exemplify this point with various examples, but consider the following:

What political commentary is being made when War reflexively jacks off a broken young man in a dank alleyway?


...you even glossed over me explaining the inspiration for that phrasing, which had nothing to do with 9gag. Like, I'm not the one that used 9gag, here-- don't take that out on me.
Yeah I'm not reading all that, but nice to know you got triggered into writing a novel I guess.
 

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