Chisa X Pon

[Oobaka-san]

This alone made the bad rep it has well deserved, let alone how the events actually led up to the whole shenigan. Don't get me wrong, Ponta was kind of a dick sometimes, but the whole story felt like a realistic depiction of a coming of age story about teenagers, almost adults. With that arc, and how with the aftermath, it completely destroyed that buildup and the quality took a massive nosedive.

How? I honestly don't get how you believe that this "destroyed" the buildup or quality. Do you find it that hard to believe that someone going through therapy would, testing and ruling out all other methods, decide to just forgive him and try to pretend he never existed? Or is it the rape in its entirety? If you just wanted it to continue as a mildly dramatic coming-of-age and the rape made it too serious and changed the nature of the story too much, I can understand. But I honestly don't get how you find that specific spot to be a breaking point.

I can tell you from experience that it is extremely difficult to let go of someone who has severely and seriously wronged or injured you or someone you love. Even "holding them responsible" through legal means is at best a crapshoot. They can and often will simply continue to live there in your heart, waking you up at night, darkening your mood at the best of times, tormenting you wherever you go. For many, forgiveness really is the only way to move on. This doesn't mean you go back to being friends or that you're completely okay with them. Chances are you'll still have a lot of problems if you meet them on the street somewhere, but you're doing your best to put it, and him/her, behind you. And as Takigawa himself says about it later in one of his few reappearances, "forgive" is ultimately just the word she chose for what she was trying to do: cut him out entirely and simply erase him from her life.

 

[Istvan90623]

Do you find it that hard to believe that someone going through therapy would, testing and ruling out all other methods, decide to just forgive him and try to pretend he never existed? Or is it the rape in its entirety? If you just wanted it to continue as a mildly dramatic coming-of-age and the rape made it too serious and changed the nature of the story too much, I can understand. But I honestly don't get how you find that specific spot to be a breaking point.

I do. You might just want to move on especially if you can't do anything about it ultimately, but you don't just "forgive". You proved my point with the second paragraph, since it will affect you for a long while. The rape itself wasn't the breaking point, but the events leading up to that, and the aftermath was, especially when the pregnancy plotline was also created. Instead of phasing out the guy of the story, it was dragged on, heck, it attempted to make him somewhat symphatethic with the whole "suicide" try. Gtfo. That was just dumb af.

The story lost the realistic touch with the aftermath of the rape, hence why the build up was destroyed. Irl, you won't take that moralistic high ground bullshit unless you're some sort of a Saint, and even deep down you'd probably never really forgive for it.

 

[Oobaka-san]

I do. You might just want to move on especially if you can't do anything about it ultimately, but you don't just "forgive". You proved my point with the second paragraph, since it will affect you for a long while. The rape itself wasn't the breaking point, but the events leading up to that, and the aftermath was, especially when the pregnancy plotline was also created. Instead of phasing out the guy of the story, it was dragged on, heck, it attempted to make him somewhat symphatethic with the whole "suicide" try. Gtfo. That was just dumb af.

The story lost the realistic touch with the aftermath of the rape, hence why the build up was destroyed. Irl, you won't take that moralistic high ground bullshit unless you're some sort of a Saint, and even deep down you'd probably never really forgive for it.

I think part of the problem is people keep taking just one definition of "forgive". Forgive doesn't always mean "oh, no it's no biggie, we can be friends again!" or anything even remotely close. As I said before, Takigawa himself specifically recognized that her "forgive" in that case wasn't anything close to that, but what you said: moving on. And kind of entertaining how you made my words "prove" your point by ignoring most of it. I said that even if you accuse them, confront them, or any number of things, that won't make it disappear. It differs depending on the person and the situation, but forgiveness can indeed be the one thing that allows you to move on.

Additionally, it's not like Chisa's "forgiveness" was unconditional or instantaneous. Look at what she said again. She'd just tried to confront him, face him with his crimes, hurt him, make him feel some of her pain and regret his actions, and what she found was a guy who was already filled with so much self-hatred and regret, so broken inside, that he had absolutely no qualms about committing suicide. And then he suddenly asks her to press charges even though they both know that this is likely to have zero impact (sadly true: Japan's courts don't exactly have the best track record with rape accusations, and in this case with a minor in a very complicated background and history of abuse, together with an influential father to "encourage" some "appropriate" rulings, chances are it wouldn't be of any use). She punches him hard and accuses him of just trying to foist the responsibility for his atonement on others, make her perform an ultimately empty gesture rather than personally take responsibility. She thus tells him to take responsibility, to acknowledge his own failings and take steps to change himself, and IF he does that, THEN she'll "forgive" him. But again, "forgive" is even stated in-story to be just a word she uses to describe trying to move on and utterly erase him from her mind. And huge emphasis on the word "trying".

Spoiler: In fact...

Fact of the matter is, this is indeed an empty word even beyond that. She says she's trying to find a way to put him behind her, but she can't. He doesn't come up a ton later on, but when he does, he seriously screws things up. Past where we are currently, further frustrations develop due to him, leading up to Ponta on the spur of the moment mentioning what'd happened, at which point Chisa runs away from him. This ultimately leads to her attempting once again to break up with him, not because she feels anything but love for him, but because she feels like it'd be easier to be with someone who doesn't know about it.

Basically, she's desperately trying to find a way to let it all go and move on, find happiness without this constant pain, and the "If you get therapy and fix your behavior I'll forgive you" was just one of those attempts, brought about by the failure of more standard attempts. But just like she didn't just get over being raped the moment it was over, this too is far from enough. She's no saint, she's just flailing around looking for ways to take even just one further step toward recovery.

 

[coyote_vdb]

I liked it a lot until now.
I think that the way she "forgives" her rapist is just a way to deny him any hold on her anymore. It has nothing to do with justice or punishment (or lack of it), just that she refuses to let him keep on impacting her life. This manga on many aspects represents well why she reacts the way she does after the aggression and how to best act to help her heal, it seems very in phase with many things I read on the topic.
I really hope the rest of it will be translated since I can't find an ebook official copy of it in English or French.

 

[Kaarme]

Ponta sounds like a dog's name. Pochi and Ponta.

 

[Oobaka-san]

Ponta sounds like a dog's name. Pochi and Ponta.

There are dogs named Ponta (no real surprise, there's dogs with almost every possible name). Mainly it's just a nickname for Honda. Also saw it in Beach Stars (either Ponta or Ponda), though the translators thought it'd be fun to translate the nickname as Humvee instead.

 

[Andarer]

This is the most realistic, mature, detailed and crude depiction of rape and the coping mechanisms that come with it that I've ever seen in a piece of fiction, let alone in a manga. The people who don't get it are the ones who have a problem, not the manga.

 

[Llethander]

Quite enjoyed the story through the ups and downs. The art style was endearing and cute.

Very sad to learn Nakano Junko passed away (12 years ago)... Many thanks to Chipon Scans for completing the translation.

 

[Monn12]

I will write back when I read it fully. I know russian tnus i will finish it and will review it. Read some reviews in russian and well, it's honestly more about male to female perspective.

Guys were saying FMC is a bitch who should have been dumped after she said it "felt good" and not pursuing rape charges (can be easily proven btw considering she was drugged). The problem wasn't that she was tainted problem was that from chapter 13 to the ending MC was hopping like a rabbit or a trained dog to please her and help her while getting shit thrown at him and basically morally destroying himself. I.e. Emasculating experience to the man, while her situation is bad she made it worse and even dragged a person she apparently loved and throw some awful jabs at him.

Gals on the other hand were saying Ponta is a "dream" man one in particular pointed that men are too selfish and ignorant now and it's almost impossible to find a man like Ponta. And anyone describing Ponta as a cuck or a women pleaser (henpecked) is an immature teenager (can't agree with it). As for FMC, they described her as a poor misguided girl. (0 accountability) Sure rape is bad, but that doesn't justify you being a total bitch who doesn't understand other, or am i wrong? As the girls pointed out she was emphatic and kind, is she really? Empathy means understanding suffering of others she apparently lacked it(i will not talk about kindness it's self explanatory).

Generally what most of the people agreed upon (both males and females). It's written by a woman for women. As some women pointed out, men lack "awareness". The usual tirade that "we" don't understand it. Hell, you don't understand us too, sure we are simple most of the time, but you lack the understanding behind our simplicity we have clear boundaries which when crossed will change our perspectives forever, we are less fluid and more crystalized. If my girl was raped I would be angry, I would try everything in my power to help her and take revenge. But if girl praised the rapist as far saying he made her feel "good", it's over.

Lastly most guys said this: If you are a male, do not read it, if you want a pleasant read it's made from perspective of an ignorant woman or from perspective of a woman to "mildly" teach ignorant girls of the problems. Why mildly? In reality after her shit throwing fiasco majority of men would abandon her and even soil her reputation, author didn't showcase real outcome of what would happen if a girl would act as she acted. Then again Ponto is a "dream" man, he would take any shit thrown at him as a real man, endure punches from front and rear, raise a rape child and show love, because that's what "a real man" would do in female perspective.

 

[Oobaka-san]

I will write back when I read it fully. I know russian tnus i will finish it and will review it. Read some reviews in russian and well, it's honestly more about male to female perspective.

Guys were saying FMC is a bitch who should have been dumped after she said it "felt good" and not pursuing rape charges (can be easily proven btw considering she was drugged). The problem wasn't that she was tainted problem was that from chapter 13 to the ending MC was hopping like a rabbit or a trained dog to please her and help her while getting shit thrown at him and basically morally destroying himself. I.e. Emasculating experience to the man, while her situation is bad she made it worse and even dragged a person she apparently loved and throw some awful jabs at him.

Gals on the other hand were saying Ponta is a "dream" man one in particular pointed that men are too selfish and ignorant now and it's almost impossible to find a man like Ponta. And anyone describing Ponta as a cuck or a women pleaser (henpecked) is an immature teenager (can't agree with it). As for FMC, they described her as a poor misguided girl. (0 accountability) Sure rape is bad, but that doesn't justify you being a total bitch who doesn't understand other, or am i wrong? As the girls pointed out she was emphatic and kind, is she really? Empathy means understanding suffering of others she apparently lacked it(i will not talk about kindness it's self explanatory).

Generally what most of the people agreed upon (both males and females). It's written by a woman for women. As some women pointed out, men lack "awareness". The usual tirade that "we" don't understand it. Hell, you don't understand us too, sure we are simple most of the time, but you lack the understanding behind our simplicity we have clear boundaries which when crossed will change our perspectives forever, we are less fluid and more crystalized. If my girl was raped I would be angry, I would try everything in my power to help her and take revenge. But if girl praised the rapist as far saying he made her feel "good", it's over.

Lastly most guys said this: If you are a male, do not read it, if you want a pleasant read it's made from perspective of an ignorant woman or from perspective of a woman to "mildly" teach ignorant girls of the problems. Why mildly? In reality after her shit throwing fiasco majority of men would abandon her and even soil her reputation, author didn't showcase real outcome of what would happen if a girl would act as she acted. Then again Ponto is a "dream" man, he would take any shit thrown at him as a real man, endure punches from front and rear, raise a rape child and show love, because that's what "a real man" would do in female perspective.

I'd actually say guys should read this, and maybe see Ponta as how you should be, rather than how women idealize a perfect man would be.

Yes, she does "praise" Takigawa and say he made her feel good. Partly because this is true. While it can be enhanced by emotion, pleasure itself is a physiological response to stimulation, and frequently occurs during rape. This is particularly notable in male rape victims as they get erections and feel this shows that they really "wanted" it or that they might be into "that" or something. Due to the way the rape happened, Chisa was full of self-loathing and denial, and she told Ponta that it felt great to convince him not to bother with someone like her. It took a lot of work and a calling-out later by Ponta for her to finally accept that feeling good doesn't mean she enjoyed it, and being tortured until your mind shuts down and can't do anything but wait for the end isn't consent.

A little heads up. Rape trauma has a lot of symptoms, and many of them are very hard to deal with for both the girl and the people in her life, including lovers. All the more so when the rapist is someone the girl knew and let her guard down around, or when the rapist is able to make her feel pleasure, or when fear or stress renders her unable to put up "enough" resistance. Pushing others away is incredibly common, whether by just trying to avoid them or actively trying to make them hate her. So is trying to regain "ownership" of one's sexuality by deciding that she really is "like that" or seeking to engage in such things by choice. As is a fear or revulsion of the actual thing.

Neither party is really an "ideal" person, both are severely flawed and struggling to pull through, avoid their flaws destroying each other and what they have together. I'd say the author made a good move having an overly worldly "teacher" in the story, who's able to tell the guy off when he makes a mistake or misunderstands things (such as making it clear that if a girl's sensitive enough to climax easily to a virgin like him with less than a year of petting experience, a womanizer with years of sexual conquests would have no trouble bringing her to orgasm and keeping her there as long as he wanted, rape or no).

I do think this was in a sense meant in part to "teach" kids. Might call it a sex ed "advanced course", hitting on all the major problems that can occur in a sexual relationship, how important the relationship can be to you but also how easily it can go bad, and what you should know and/or do about the bad parts.

 

[Monn12]

I'd actually say guys should read this, and maybe see Ponta as how you should be, rather than how women idealize a perfect man would be.

Yes, she does "praise" Takigawa and say he made her feel good. Partly because this is true. While it can be enhanced by emotion, pleasure itself is a physiological response to stimulation, and frequently occurs during rape. This is particularly notable in male rape victims as they get erections and feel this shows that they really "wanted" it or that they might be into "that" or something. Due to the way the rape happened, Chisa was full of self-loathing and denial, and she told Ponta that it felt great to convince him not to bother with someone like her. It took a lot of work and a calling-out later by Ponta for her to finally accept that feeling good doesn't mean she enjoyed it, and being tortured until your mind shuts down and can't do anything but wait for the end isn't consent.

A little heads up. Rape trauma has a lot of symptoms, and many of them are very hard to deal with for both the girl and the people in her life, including lovers. All the more so when the rapist is someone the girl knew and let her guard down around, or when the rapist is able to make her feel pleasure, or when fear or stress renders her unable to put up "enough" resistance. Pushing others away is incredibly common, whether by just trying to avoid them or actively trying to make them hate her. So is trying to regain "ownership" of one's sexuality by deciding that she really is "like that" or seeking to engage in such things by choice. As is a fear or revulsion of the actual thing.

Neither party is really an "ideal" person, both are severely flawed and struggling to pull through, avoid their flaws destroying each other and what they have together. I'd say the author made a good move having an overly worldly "teacher" in the story, who's able to tell the guy off when he makes a mistake or misunderstands things (such as making it clear that if a girl's sensitive enough to climax easily to a virgin like him with less than a year of petting experience, a womanizer with years of sexual conquests would have no trouble bringing her to orgasm and keeping her there as long as he wanted, rape or no).

I do think this was in a sense meant in part to "teach" kids. Might call it a sex ed "advanced course", hitting on all the major problems that can occur in a sexual relationship, how important the relationship can be to you but also how easily it can go bad, and what you should know and/or do about the bad parts.

I will try to read it, and hopefully can comment on your commentary. Roughly speaking without knowing fully the story, I can agree with you. I know some therapy tactics about rape victims and their stories. I also know fairly well about physical and psychological response during rape (men having an erection and etc.).

The problem that I will try hug is about how is it really healthy for male auditorium since it is clear as a day that female auditorium received it pleasantly. And currently I'm not well informed about this story to make a sound judgment on your words sadly. I promise I will return after reading it fully. Though I will probably need to take a bottle with me during reading this, since female authors usually have a tendency to stab male auditory even without intending to do so. (Explains a lot why despite living for thousands of years we still have relationship problems)

 

[ComeEndTheKitty]

Commenting to balance out the nonsense on here.
It's crap.
White knight cock crap.
I'd go into more detail but it isn't worth the effort.

 

[Ubada]

Where are 44-48?

 

[Hootanic]

Now that it's complete, definitely is an underrated story. It's very adult in it's themes and how sex does complicate things. People who been in similar situations o known people who have can identify with this story.