Dōu Zhuǎnshēng le, Wǒ Cái Bùyào Zài Gěi Nǐ Bǔmó! - Vol. 1 Ch. 9 - We Don't Have That Kind of Relationship

[UdenEmpati]

Yeah except they don't have to have sex to mana transfer. One (most likely both) of them had to initiate it whenever they started fucking to mana transfer instead of doing it normally, so why would Rachel, especially after she audibly recognized that Elysia wants to do it, have any reason to think Elysia didn't feel the same as her? At the very least it should be obvious that the sexual attraction is going both ways. And to Elysia this outcome was the absolute last thing she expected because she knew for sure how much Rachel liked sex in the previous world, she just didn't know what her romantic feelings were. Either Rachel doesn't realize her own feelings and realizes Elysia's, in which case fuck her for that response she wants to kiss you because she likes you and you know that, or she realizes her own feelings and not Elysia's, and just has no clue as to why Elysia wants to have sex right now. Either way, dense.

Unless I missed something, I think you're conflating romantic feelings for purely physical.

They did have a captor/prisoner relationship dynamic, and that doesn't necessarily breed (healthy) emotional connections and attachments. Rachel could have had sex with Elysia all the time before, but it would have always carried that disparity in their stations.

There's no reason to assume from Rachel's perspective that Elysia is doing this out of a desire to emotionally connect with her now, from what I can tell. Hence the rejection of the kiss: they're not in the Old Place anymore, so that old setup and pretense no longer need apply, in Rachel's mind. Elysia is free now, and surely she wouldn't want to continue what they had before, if she's not being compelled to?

And neither have actually stated those feelings aloud at this point and time either. Again, maybe I'm missing something and need to re-read, but.

 

[ezzhead]

Unless I missed something, I think you're conflating romantic feelings for purely physical.

They did have a captor/prisoner relationship dynamic, and that doesn't necessarily breed (healthy) emotional connections and attachments. Rachel could have had sex with Elysia all the time before, but it would have always carried that disparity in their stations.

There's no reason to assume from Rachel's perspective that Elysia is doing this out of a desire to emotionally connect with her now, from what I can tell. Hence the rejection of the kiss: they're not in the Old Place anymore, so that old setup and pretense no longer need apply, in Rachel's mind. Elysia is free now, and surely she wouldn't want to continue what they had before, if she's not being compelled to?

And neither have actually stated those feelings aloud at this point and time either. Again, maybe I'm missing something and need to re-read, but.

Well even if Rachel doesn't like her romantically it'd still be really dumb for her not to realize that Elysia likes her but whatever I'm done with this I went on a rant editing my other comment and I'm satisfied with my conclusion

 

[flowsthead]

Yeah except they don't have to have sex to mana transfer. One (most likely both) of them had to initiate it whenever they started fucking to mana transfer instead of doing it normally, so why would Rachel, especially after she audibly recognized that Elysia wants to do it, have any reason to think Elysia didn't feel the same as her? At the very least it should be obvious that the sexual attraction is going both ways. And to Elysia this outcome was the absolute last thing she expected because she knew for sure how much Rachel liked sex in the previous world, she just didn't know what her romantic feelings were. Either Rachel doesn't realize her own feelings and realizes Elysia's, in which case fuck her for that response she wants to kiss you because she likes you and you know that, or she realizes her own feelings and not Elysia's, and just has no clue as to why Elysia wants to have sex right now. Either way, dense.

A sexual relationship is not a romantic one. In chapter 5 Elysia tells her a) I'm not your prisoner anymore, I don't have to give you mana while she b) rejects her when Rachel went to exchange mana by having sex. And in the following chapter she reinforced that. In chapter 7 Elysia tells Rachel that to stay with her she has to do what Elysia says, establishing authority.

So in this chapter, Elysia initiates sex and tries to kiss Rachel. Rachel says that kissing is not necessary for mana transfer, and that if they weren't transferring mana then they wouldn't be having sex either. From Rachel's point of view, Elysia is taking care of her. She's feeding her, teaching her the local language, teaching her about the world. Giving her mana is also part of taking care of her. Kissing is not part of taking care of her, that's part of a romantic relationship, which they have never had in the past.

Like think of this from Rachels point of view. She had Elysia as a prisoner, until her empire was overthrown, then she was burned on a pyre, and then wound up as Elysia's ward immediately after. That's not being dense, that's just taking time to adjust to the new dynamic.

 

[ezzhead]

A sexual relationship is not a romantic one. In chapter 5 Elysia tells her a) I'm not your prisoner anymore, I don't have to give you mana while she b) rejects her when Rachel went to exchange mana by having sex. And in the following chapter she reinforced that. In chapter 7 Elysia tells Rachel that to stay with her she has to do what Elysia says, establishing authority.

So in this chapter, Elysia initiates sex and tries to kiss Rachel. Rachel says that kissing is not necessary for mana transfer, and that if they weren't transferring mana then they wouldn't be having sex either. From Rachel's point of view, Elysia is taking care of her. She's feeding her, teaching her the local language, teaching her about the world. Giving her mana is also part of taking care of her. Kissing is not part of taking care of her, that's part of a romantic relationship, which they have never had in the past.

Like think of this from Rachels point of view. She had Elysia as a prisoner, until her empire was overthrown, then she was burned on a pyre, and then wound up as Elysia's ward immediately after. That's not being dense, that's just taking time to adjust to the new dynamic.

She doesn't have to fuck to mana transfer and she tried to fuck to mana transfer a few chapters ago. Read my other comments I've been rambling in edits

 

[flowsthead]

She doesn't have to fuck to mana transfer and she tried to fuck to mana transfer a few chapters ago. Read my other comments I've been rambling in edits

That actually isn't clear. In this chapter when she says we don't need to do that to mana transfer, she had just stopped a kiss. So they might actually need to fuck to mana transfer, but they definitely don't need to kiss to mana transfer.

 

[ezzhead]

That actually isn't clear. In this chapter when she says we don't need to do that to mana transfer, she had just stopped a kiss. So they might actually need to fuck to mana transfer, but they definitely don't need to kiss to mana transfer.

Elysia basically mana transferred when she brought in Rachel in dog form to heal her. She acts like her mana got sapped rather than just being spent on healing. Doesn't really matter cause she should know Elysia likes her. Also she literally says "Wanna do it" if she doesn't realize Elysia wants to fuck she would not say it like that. Or she would because she's dense.

 

[UdenEmpati]

She doesn't have to fuck to mana transfer and she tried to fuck to mana transfer a few chapters ago. Read my other comments I've been rambling in edits

Why does the mode of mana transfer even matter?

The whole point is that the "fucking", whether you want to argue it was necessary or not, was coerced on Elysia's part because she was a prisoner under Rachel.

That doesn't equate any form of romantic relationship between them, then or now. I don't know why you keep hammering the lack of necessity of sex for the mana transferring and seemingly ignoring that such a relationship is wholly separate from one built on emotional bonds, but.

Rachel has zero reason to suspect Elysia has feelings for her, given their entire dynamic from the previous timeline.

 

[flowsthead]

Elysia basically mana transferred when she brought in Rachel in dog form to heal her. She acts like her mana got sapped rather than just being spent on healing. Doesn't really matter cause she should know Elysia likes her. Also she literally says "Wanna do it" if she doesn't realize Elysia wants to fuck she would not say it like that. Or she would because she's dense.

Ok I feel like you don't really understand how fantasy works. Elysia using a healing spell is not mana transfer. A healing spell expends mana from the caster to heal someone. Mana transfer takes mana from one person and gives it to another. Healing Rachel does not give Rachel more mana. Transferring mana would give more mana.

 

[ezzhead]

Why does the mode of mana transfer even matter?

The whole point is that the "fucking", whether you want to argue it was necessary or not, was coerced on Elysia's part because she was a prisoner under Rachel.

That doesn't equate any form of romantic relationship between them, then or now. I don't know why you keep hammering the lack of necessity of sex for the mana transferring and seemingly ignoring that such a relationship is wholly separate from one built on emotional bonds, but.

Rachel has zero reason to suspect Elysia has feelings for her, given their entire dynamic from the previous timeline.

That might be true if the last 9 chapters didn't just happen but they did, and Elysia just tried to seduce her. Rachel said word for word "Wanna do it?" And Elysia said yes. Unless she's actually dumb as all hell there's no way she doesn't realize Elysia WANTS to have sex with her cause she literally just asked if Elysia wants to have sex and she said yes. She then proceeded to ask why they'd kiss when they don't have that kind of relationship. Either she's playing dumb, or she's genuinely harem protag levels of intelligence.

 

[ezzhead]

Ok I feel like you don't really understand how fantasy works. Elysia using a healing spell is not mana transfer. A healing spell expends mana from the caster to heal someone. Mana transfer takes mana from one person and gives it to another. Healing Rachel does not give Rachel more mana. Transferring mana would give more mana.

I just said it looked like Rachel sapped mana when Elysia tried to heal her. Not that the healing was a mana transfer. And also, who cares, there's a billion different things to suggest to Rachel that there's feelings involved, and she's picking up on none of them. Dense. READ MY OTHER COMMENT ON PAGE 1 I RAMBLED ABOUT THIS ALREADY I'M ARGUING WITH 2 DIFFERENT PEOPLE ABOUT THE SAME THING AND THERE'S AN IN DEPTH ESSAY ON WHY IT DOESN'T REALLY MAKE SENSE UNLESS RACHEL'S STUPID OR EXTREMELY ASHAMED OF WHAT SHE WAS DOING

 

[flowsthead]

I just said it looked like Rachel sapped mana when Elysia tried to heal her. Not that the healing was a mana transfer. And also, who cares, there's a billion different things to suggest to Rachel that there's feelings involved, and she's picking up on none of them. Dense. READ MY OTHER COMMENT ON PAGE 1 I RAMBLED ABOUT THIS ALREADY I'M ARGUING WITH 2 DIFFERENT PEOPLE ABOUT THE SAME THING AND THERE'S AN IN DEPTH ESSAY ON WHY IT DOESN'T REALLY MAKE SENSE UNLESS RACHEL'S STUPID OR EXTREMELY ASHAMED OF WHAT SHE WAS DOING

I did read your long post. You're not quite reading it correctly. It makes sense so far with the information we have. You're assuming that mana transfer doesn't need sex, but nowhere have we seen that to be true. Her being more exhausted from healing Rachel was because she was expecting to heal a normal animal, not a full on person, her being sapped doesn't mean mana was transferred. Assuming that sex is needed for mana transfer, then there is no issues so far. No plot issues, and no character issues. The only rejection was for kissing, not sex.

 

[Prismatic-chan]

give this a while in the oven before things start to make sense.
i'm sure it'll be worth waiting for.

 

[ezzhead]

I did read your long post. You're not quite reading it correctly. It makes sense so far with the information we have. You're assuming that mana transfer doesn't need sex, but nowhere have we seen that to be true. Her being more exhausted from healing Rachel was because she was expecting to heal a normal animal, not a full on person, her being sapped doesn't mean mana was transferred. Assuming that sex is needed for mana transfer, then there is no issues so far. No plot issues, and no character issues. The only rejection was for kissing, not sex.

I was actually assuming the opposite of that until not that long ago and regardless of the specifics of the mana transferal Rachel is still dense. I didn't say there were character or plot issues, or that the story can't make sense. I'm just saying most of the ways things do make sense require Rachel to be dumb as bricks. Which isn't a crazy assumption. She's a dog. Not even an uncommon thing with romcom characters either. And did I say Rachel said no to sex? Who said Rachel wasn't up for sex?

 

[Ft70]

Istg

 

[UdenEmpati]

I was actually assuming the opposite of that until not that long ago and regardless of the specifics of the mana transferal Rachel is still dense. I didn't say there were character or plot issues, or that the story can't make sense. I'm just saying most of the ways things do make sense require Rachel to be dumb as bricks. Which isn't a crazy assumption. She's a dog. Not even an uncommon thing with romcom characters either. And did I say Rachel said no to sex? Who said Rachel wasn't up for sex?

I also read everything you've written. I just think you're incorrect as far as how you've interpreted what's transpired.

Rachel isn't dense, she's just not a mind reader. Elysia herself hasn't fully parsed her feelings, and they're both operating off the memories of the power imbalance between them from their first lives. So why would Rachel be aware of what Elysia's actuallt feeling, when Elysia herself is still processing it? There was no emotional intimacy between them before to set a precedent, and if anything their present circumstances are simply a role reversal of their Previous Lives.

 

[UdenEmpati]

That might be true if the last 9 chapters didn't just happen but they did, and Elysia just tried to seduce her. Rachel said word for word "Wanna do it?" And Elysia said yes. Unless she's actually dumb as all hell there's no way she doesn't realize Elysia WANTS to have sex with her cause she literally just asked if Elysia wants to have sex and she said yes. She then proceeded to ask why they'd kiss when they don't have that kind of relationship. Either she's playing dumb, or she's genuinely harem protag levels of intelligence.

Yeah - again, you're seeing sex and assuming romantic feelings on Elysia's part and then getting mad at Rachel for not being a mind reader.

There is zero reason for Rachel to know or suspect Elysia is developing actual romantic/emotional feelings here and now. Sex is sex, and kissing isn't being presented as a necessary part of that, which is why Rachel specifically pushes back against it.

 

[ezzhead]

I also read everything you've written. I just think you're incorrect as far as how you've interpreted what's transpired.

Rachel isn't dense, she's just not a mind reader. Elysia herself hasn't fully parsed her feelings, and they're both operating off the memories of the power imbalance between them from their first lives.

At that point, Elysia was a prisoner under Rachel's control for the purposes of Mana Transfer. Sex was needed, but it wasn't a "healthy relationship" by any stretch, and Elysia was effectively coerced

It was healthy for the circumstances, about as healthy as it could be. Judging from flashbacks and by Elysia's own words, Rachel was very very into sex whenever they did it, Elysia was really only bothered by the biting and stuff, and they were both clearly happy with having the other around. Literally doing dances around a campfire.. Elysia's seemingly parsed her feelings more than enough considering she just tried to seduce Rachel. And there is absolutely no reason Rachel should ask "Wanna do it?" Hear a clear yes in response, and think "Oh, she's just trying to supply me with mana" or "She just wants to fuck and doesn't really like me like that" unless of course, she's dense. You guys both seem to be missing that key component of my argument. I'm not saying these things are impossible, I'm not saying things don't make sense, I'm not saying there are plot holes exactly, I'm just saying Rachel is a bit daft to experience all she's experienced with Elysia and not consider that she likes her. If she's not sure, she can just ask. Y'know, as Elysia's trying to have sex with her anyway? Just a "Do you like me?" Unless she just doesn't consider that a possibility, which I think is only a reasonable conclusion if she's just dumb. She can just be dumb. That's fine.

 

[nightshine]

Seems like Elysia just doesn't like the feeling of being used part of their past relationship (fair) and Rachel feels like they only have a business relationship. Like I'm sure Rachel likes Elysia, it seems pretty clear, and I think Rachel did in fact "take advantage" of the situation to have sex with a hot girl she liked, but she never wanted Elysia to do more than she needed. She (Rachel) was probably dissociating a bit because she doesnt want to catch more feelings for Elysia. Elysia meanwhile is kinda finally understanding what she actually wanted from Rachel in the beginning with, to have a loving relationship without the need of exchanging mana.

Think of Elysia as wanting to take the next step in their relationship meanwhile Rachel doesn't even know they are in one. I think Rachel sees herself as someone that HAS TO DO SEX WITH A GIRL rather than WANTING TOO due to the mana transfer, and aside from that she does genuinely care for Elysia and want her to be as comfortable as possible. Like she knows Elysia is in a terrible spot, but for the good of humanity she kinda has to do this thing that can have a girl she likes hate her. If anything Rachel is caught between wanting to woo the girl she likes while at the same time feeling she is only taking advantage of her.

 

[ezzhead]

Yeah - again, you're seeing sex and assuming romantic feelings on Elysia's part and then getting mad at Rachel for not being a mind reader.

There is zero reason for Rachel to know or suspect Elysia is developing actual romantic/emotional feelings here and now. Sex is sex, and kissing isn't being presented as a necessary part of that, which is why Rachel specifically pushes back against it.

Are you actually saying Elysia doesn't like Rachel? Deadass? How is that even a possibility? Literally this chapter she thinks to herself "If she feels the same way, surely she'll reciprocate" just before her kiss is blocked. Gets extremely mad at the suggestion that they don't have a romantic relationship. Rachel is allowed to think of sex and kissing as two separate matters, and she's not wrong that kissing is something people in a romantic relationship do, but if she knows that, and she knows that Elysia wants to kiss her, why is the possibility that Elysia likes her romantically not crossing her mind? SHE'S DENSE. THAT'S FINE. SHE DOESN'T HAVE TO MIND READ TO REALIZE ELYSIA MIGHT LIKE HER, JUST THINK FOR A SECOND. MAKING TOO MANY ASSUMPTIONS NOT THINKING HARD ENOUGH. AND IT'S FINE THAT SHE'S NOT THINKING HARD ENOUGH, IT JUST MEANS SHE'S DENSE

 

[ezzhead]

Seems like Elysia just doesn't like the feeling of being used part of their past relationship (fair) and Rachel feels like they only have a business relationship. Like I'm sure Rachel likes Elysia, it seems pretty clear, and I think Rachel did in fact "take advantage" of the situation to have sex with a hot girl she liked, but she never wanted Elysia to do more than she needed. She (Rachel) was probably dissociating a bit because she doesnt want to catch more feelings for Elysia. Elysia meanwhile is kinda finally understanding what she actually wanted from Rachel in the beginning with, to have a loving relationship without the need of exchanging mana.

Think of Elysia as wanting to take the next step in their relationship meanwhile Rachel doesn't even know they are in one. I think Rachel sees herself as someone that HAS TO DO SEX WITH A GIRL rather than WANTING TOO due to the mana transfer, and aside from that she does genuinely care for Elysia and want her to be as comfortable as possible. Like she knows Elysia is in a terrible spot, but for the good of humanity she kinda has to do this thing that can have a girl she likes hate her. If anything Rachel is caught between wanting to woo the girl she likes while at the same time feeling she is only taking advantage of her.

I agree with this as a likely possibility and would like to add that it's either her mental troubles are preventing her from realizing Elysia likes her, or simply overall low awareness