E-Rank Healer - Ch. 10

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@throwaway4ccount Regardless of what Kaido says, the guild wouldn't let him act alone if he wasn't capable of doing so. They don't want to give Carol A-rank, despite her deserving that rank, so they evidently are very cautious. Either way, there is more evidence that S-ranks are expected to be able to act alone, than that they aren't.

The court magician was also an arrogant asshole, which means he underestimated her. 3 days to prepare for incapacitating someone who underestimated you, not defending a town or killing a high-rank creature, is not proof of competence. It's proof Carol isn't a complete moron, is all.

Now, regarding preparations. Each time Kaido got a request, because he's S-rank, it was an emergency. Emergencies generally don't give you time to prepare. What if they got another emergency request right after Carol used up her stock? She would be completely useless in a fight.

Yep, everyone has their shortcomings. Kaido failed with the cursed worm, sure. Just like Achilles, you know that superhuman hero of myth, was killed because someone cut his heel. Kaido fought the cursed worm long enough to even surprise Carol with it's size. And the situation even showed he's capable of limited healing magic. Carol's shortcoming, on the other hand, is that she can't fight. And that she has poor general knowledge (like, I don't know, the name of the kingdom she is currently in?), only specialised knowledge, but that's a moot point right now.

Mountain apes, huh. Kaido was already relying on Carol by then, since he specifically requested her help, and so he probably wasn't as alert as he should have been. Could Carol have handled the situation alone? No way. Could Kaido? Possibly. Which seem more deserving of S-rank?

You make good points, that there are different types of quests and different classes handle some better. But that's no good reason to lump combat-ready adventurers together with non-combatants. Say the guild gets an S-rank request. Now the handler has to determine the risk of combat, and then has to find an S-rank that fits the bill. More work. Also prone for mistakes, like if a town suffers sickness, unknowingly caused by a monster cursing the town. Request is 'fix sickness'. Non-combatant can fix curse, but might die to monster. Say there is another, equally high, rank just for non-combatants. Call it X-rank. Guild gets S-rank request? Great, send S-rank adventurer. X-rank request? Same, send X-rank. Unclear? Send both. Easy, less work. Fighters fight, supporters support. Done.

Edit:grammar
 
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@cor3zone

Sure, Kaido is capable of acting alone, but this doesn't mean that S-Ranks are "expected" to do so, but rather that at least some of them are "capable" of doing so. (The rules of the Guild are for all ranks, as evidenced by the fact that Kaido refers Carol to a rule she was aware of, back before she knew he was S-Rank, which shows it applied to other ranks, and, with only 10 S-Ranks, those rules would be written with normal ranks, not S-Rank primarily in mind, so it tells us nothing about S-Ranks being treated in a special way.) Kaido is likely special, even among S-Ranks, because he has skills is swords, offensive magic, limited healing magic, and uses spirits. (I wouldn't be surprised if it is revealed that he is one of the princes of the kingdom, and that royalty get special blessings.)

The evidence we have is that Kaido doesn't normally pair with people, because he finds it a pain. He details his reasoning. Since his boss mentions how stubborn he is, there is ample evidence to believe that he insists on working his own way, with his own team, regardless of what they say. (This includes the fact that he continues to insist that he be in a team with Carol, even when told not to team up with her, showing that, regardless of their desires for the composition of his team, he still decides how to team up, himself. This evidence, directly from the manga, counters the argument of more evidence of expectation to act alone, because he is shown to go directly against the "expectation" for what his party should look like.)

Yes, the magician underestimated her, but not anymore that your post about it shows that you are underestimating her. He is still extremely smart, and had been doing research on her for more than the three days she had to do research on him. As such, his preparation should have been good, too. He thought he knew what she was capable of, and acted accordingly. Again, the thing he claims to be best at (knowledge) is the very thing she beat him at in their contest. To see it as anything other than a display of tremendous competence is to be intentionally blind to her accomplishment, just to undermine her capabilities for an argument. There are plenty of people that are far from "complete morons" that would fail. She had to design an entirely new product (and did so within 3 days) in order to accomplish it, but she did so.

You say that because they are "emergency requests" that Carol wouldn't have time to prepare, but that is proven not to be the case in the manga. Despite them having to leave right away, she is still able to concoct a large amount of Mountain Ape repellent, which shows itself to be highly effective. Sure, she couldn't hunt them down, but the request was only to investigate, not hunt them down. She is actually the one that discovered what was going on (that the new type was a Boss Mountain Ape), and how to solve the issue. Thus she actually did more of the actual quest completion than Kaido did. Kaido just helped to take out the monster, after discovering what it was. (In many settings there is are "investigation" quests that are quite different from "subjugation" quests.) Not to mention, that even emergency quests require time for travel, which also gives her time to prepare. It would be silly to think that they send people in without letting them do what is necessary to prepare.

If they get another emergency request, then they either send somebody else, she quickly replaces her stock and moves on, or they wait a couple days. To reverse things, what do they do if Kaido's weapon is damaged by one quest? Do you think they say, "It's an emergency so go fight without any weapons and hope your magic is enough, but if you die, whoops"? (Of note, Kaido is shown needing to repair his sword, and that the repairs will "take some time" so what if he got a request during that time? Does he rush off without a weapon because it is an "emergency"?) Proper equipment is also a part of an adventurer's life and is factored in on which quests to take.

Yes, I am aware of Achilles, and his heel wasn't "cut" but hit with a poison arrow. Kaido was close to death, and his efforts of fighting the worm were actually making the situation much worse, according to Carol. He had actually accelerated his death, rather than fighting it off for longer. It wasn't the length of time that had made it grow, but his constant attempts to counteract it by healing himself, which made it get more food. So, rather than showing his competence in that situation, it actually showed that he had done the exact wrong thing, and that he is lucky Carol was there and knew how to treat it.

He has other shortcomings, too. In the fight with the Inozasaou, he was capable to defeat it, but not to save the lives of the villagers. Both Carol's healing, and her ability to attract it away from the building they were in, were necessary for those people to live (as Kaido again acknowledges). Her "search" is also bigger. As for her inability to fight, I question if it will always remain such, or if part of that was the fact that the party she was in was focused on continuing to use her and make her feel useless. They used her strength to boost their own ranks. Yes, she doesn't know the "formal" name of the kingdom she is in (which is why it could be possible that she is traveling with a prince and not know it), but it isn't like that information is necessary for adventuring, or would, in any way, stop her from accomplishing a quest. Have you ever read a quest that said: "Come to x village and teach them the formal name of the kingdom, rather than the name it is generally called. P. S. This is definitely an emergency S-Rank quest"? Of course not. The idea that knowing that is a barrier to S-Rank is silly.

Those are also questions that are common for those living in the capital city, but would be less known in more remote villages, where she is from. If the question were to name all of the various families in her village, and the rough population numbers for the past 5 years, I bet she would ace that, but somebody like Kaido would have no clue. "General knowledge" differs based on region, and she comes from a further region than many. It is interesting though, how quick you are to dismiss the "specialized knowledge" that is actually "knowledge beneficial for a healer to have, and the more they have the better they are at healing". Funny that you want to focus on the part that, as you say, it "a moot point" because it doesn't actually affect her rankings, but in doing so also try to treat the knowledge that should affect her rankings as a "moot point" as well.

I like how, in one paragraph you try to say that Kaido's competence is such that he doesn't need anybody, then in another paragraph say that his incompetence is actually Carol being a hindrance to him. So he's S-Rank when he's alone, but drops down to B-Rank when she is with him? That doesn't make sense. You are bending over so far backward to dismiss her abilities and competence, that you would rather interpret it as Kaido being lazy, than that she was able to do something he couldn't, and saved her life? Seriously? Do you just hate her or something? Also, he "specifically requested her help" because he knew that she had skills, abilities, and knowledge that he didn't. He normally preferred to work alone, so him wanting her to join him is not evidence of him becoming lazy, but of just how excellent she is at what she does. To interpret it other than a declaration of her strength is to ignore the will of the author.

As for you question, "Could Kaido?" The answer is not "Possibly" but "No" as declared by Kaido himself. It was Carol that detected the Mountain Apes, it was Carol that discovered a leader, and it was Carol that told Kaido what to do to fix things. The manga tells us that Kaido couldn't do it on his own, and the only reason to interpret it otherwise is to minimize Carol's accomplishments. Again, you sound just like the court magician, who said Kaido might be over-exaggerating her contributions, which greatly offended Kaido, because he was adamant that he was always truthful. Since you have shown your thoughts on the court magician (using his own talking points), I would recommend not sounding like him, if you don't want to be in the same category he is. Kaido is offended by those who question his integrity, and clearly has a strong sense of justice. As such, there is much more evidence to suggest that he would have died at the hands of the Mountain Apes (albeit, while killing many of them) than that he could have soloed the encounter if Carol wasn't there.

Parties combine "combat-ready adventurers together with non-combatants" when they form parties to begin with, so that part of the argument doesn't make any sense. If they evaluated it otherwise, it would be difficult for "combat-ready adventurers" because they might take damage, and then have to return and heal, before moving on again. Or you'd have to assign them jobs that would allow them to never get injured in the first place, which is difficult to do. The fact is, fighters are much less effective without a good healer. Look at Gran's group, for example. They looked like an "A-Rank" party, when they were a bunch of scrubs, because she kept them healed. It would be hard for Kaido to keep a party that incompetent alive when facing A-Rank monsters, but Carol could do so. Dragging a party of people that weak far enough along for them to get A and B-Rankings shows just how strong she really is. A B-Ranker that specialized in healing was not even close to strong enough to overcome their shortcomings, but Carol was able to do so without issue.

Even in combat, there are different types of quests. This enemy is immune/resistant to magic. That enemy has an incredibly strong physical resistance, but is susceptible to magic. The fact that they have handlers already shows that they are making evaluations based on where people are and what abilities they have for quests. They have 10 S-Ranks, currently, and it is highly likely that they already determine which S-Rank fits the bill for certain requests. All requests are also prone to mistakes. There are many manga that have stories of an "E-Rank" or "D-Rank" quest that was mislabeled, and if not for the MC being stronger than evaluated, the party would have been wiped out (or other parties do get wiped out). The fact that they have different ranks for different quests already shows that they have to evaluate quests and figure out what is needed for them. As such, what you seem to treat as more complex is actually what they were already doing. Also, in your example, the "fix sickness" quest would have been put in the "X-Rank" category, and you still end up in the same situation, don't you? How does that stop the mislabeling from happening in any way? It doesn't. Adventurers are responsible for paying attention to which quests they take, and making sure they are capable of completing them. Handlers do their best to recommend quests that they think the person could complete, but they make mistakes, too.

To go down the rabbit hole of "S-Rank" and "X-Rank" quests, then you need to have different ranks for "Fighters" "Mages" "Magical Swordsmen" "Spirit Users" and "Healers", meaning you now need 5 different letters. Oh, and we also need letters for combinations of those groups. What letter do you use for a quest that is "Unclear" and needs both? "V-Rank"? (Also, the idea of you suggesting sending both is confusing to me. You said that "S-Rank" are "able to act alone" so wouldn't sending an "X-Rank" mean they weren't really an "S-Rank" to begin with, since that means they weren't able to "act alone" but needed an "X-Rank" with them? "S-Rank" means they can handle everything, right? Thank you for showing that there would be expectations for them to act in groups, even after saying there wasn't evidence for it.) Adding more letters actually makes it more likely that a quest gets mislabeled, and more likely that accidents happen as a result. Better to have one letter for the highest of all classes, and let the adventurers pick based on what abilities they have, and expect that specific requests to one of those individuals is based on their specific abilities (because if they aren't, anyway, whoever is making that specific request is stupid).
 
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@throwaway4ccount Honestly, TL;DR.

Some points though:
Carol coming up with a new product doesn't show her 'knowledge', it's shows her ingenuity. She didn't even fight on the same field; magician prided himself in knowing all, but Carol actually created new 'knowledge'. Knowing and inventing are separate fields.

Difference between Kaido and Carol in preparation is that Kaido could fight with any sword, probably. Carol's strength is her own products, which takes time to produce. Emergency? Kaido can grab a sword from any smith. Carol has to hope she makes it in time.

Please provide a source for how Kaido accelerated his death by cursed worm before making that claim. All that was said is that Kaido healed himself, which gave the worm more food. The worm grew because it had more food, it didn't eat more because it grew. It only accelerated growth because it had opportunity, i.e. because the host didn't die yet.

Sorry about Achilles, my facts are colored by modern interpretations. Thanks for correcting.
 
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@cor3zone

Carol also shows off her ingenuity, but my post was pointing out that she showed knowledge of how he would react and made traps for him based on his behavior. Even though he is supposed to be "smarter" and has studied her for longer (since he brags about knowing about her when first meeting her, and would likely be the type to try to learn everything about this E-Rank Healer that partnered with Kaido). He was unable to anticipate what she could do, but she accurately predicted what he would do, showing her ability to quickly gain the necessary information when facing an unexpected challenge. Her ingenuity also showed knowledge, though, because she took an existing product, and based on her knowledge of it, and how it works, figured out a way to enhance it. So, while knowing and inventing might be separate fields, she has shown herself extremely capable in both.

Your preparation example is still wrong, to be blunt. That assumes that Kaido has time to go to a blacksmith, that said blacksmith is of sufficient quality to have crafted weaponry suitable for using against S-Rank monsters (which might have much greater toughness than normal monsters), that the difference in balancing between the blades wouldn't hamper him, just for starters. Also, who says that he gets the dispatch while in town? What if he concluded a mission that wasn't in a town, while breaking/damaging his weapon? What if there is something special about that particular sword? (As a magical swordsman, it makes sense that some weapons would be specially design to conduct magic better, and be able to handle lots of magical power without breaking.) What if the mission he was on was in a town, but the blacksmith had been killed by the monsters before he arrived? You are assuming a lot for him to just have extra swords available.

Even more to the point, though (and something I mentioned that you didn't read before), we've already seen her comply with an "Emergency request" and still have something prepared to specifically deal with the monsters they were assigned to deal with, by the time they arrived. She makes her own products, but is able to do it in a very short time (as evidenced by her doing it on the fly to help deal with the Boar), and they are made from resources that seem to be easy to acquire in any town (same as a run of the mill sword). The difference, in fact, is in her favor, as she can take basic material and turn it into something amazing in a short amount of time, but it would take longer for Kaido to be able to take a run of the mill sword, and get it turned into a top tier weapon (in fact it would be easier to have a top tier weapon made). If poor quality is all that is available to both, she can still make it permanently better easier and faster.

As for the source, that would be chapter two. She states that his magic didn't work, and instead made the worm "more lively" which means more active. That is what made it produce more poison, which was what was negatively affecting him. You say it "grew because it had more food", but that proves that he, by providing it more food, was responsible for its accelerated growth, and the bigger it is, the faster it kills him. So I don't get how you don't see that he was accelerating his death, if his actions made it bigger (and thus helped it produce more poison sooner). Since she says it cancelled his magic's affects, that mean that he wasn't helping himself survive, either. Since she says his actions made the worm more active, that shows that he was helping it to kill him faster (similar to how moving a lot when bitten by a snake helps circulate the venom more, and makes the effects worse and they show up sooner). While he would have been weakened, without the healing magic, the worm's growth and activity would have been less, and he could have survived longer.
 
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@throwaway4ccount Again, TL;DR.

Also, nowhere in chapter 2 does it say the healing magic only affected the worm.

"Your magic didn't work because after you cast the healing magic your physical strength increased and it only made the cursed worm more lively!"

Your source literally spells out that the magic gave the worm more food("physical strength"). The worm having more food literally means Kaido lived longer than he would have without healing magic. His life was the food, more food means more life, i.e. living longer.

Either way, I'm tired of having my arguments discarded completely by someone with at best poor reading comprehesion, at worst poor intentions. Good day.
 
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@cor3zone

The amount of hypocrisy in your last post was astounding! You accuse me of "completely discarding" your arguments, and yet you are the one that has started both of their last posts by saying that you didn't even bother to read my arguments. Who is really "completely discarding" them? The person who takes the time to give detailed explanations of why they disagree, or the person who doesn't bother reading them in the first place? That brings up the second part, where you also say I have "at best poor reading comprehension", despite the fact that you fail to read or comprehend my argument, and, as I will prove in a grammatical breakdown of the fully quoted sentence, you also failed to comprehend its meaning.

On to breaking down the sentence to show what it means. "Your magic didn't work": This is the first part of the sentence, and actually is a stand alone thought on its own. This could have been her complete statement to him, and the rest of the sentence is subservient to these first four words. As such, this is in keeping with my assertion that he was not helping himself by using magic, but is in complete opposition to your assertion that his use of magic kept him alive longer. If his magic kept him alive, then she would have been more likely to start with something like "your magic helped you resist the worm, but couldn't overcome it". No, she starts off with a declaration that his magic DIDN'T WORK!

The next part of the sentence "because": this word is key, because it shows that the rest of the sentence is an explanation for why it didn't work. This is the part that Gran and the others would have ignored, because it is giving more information that just the basics. As such, any statements after this do not negate the direct statement that his magic didn't work, because they are a secondary part of the sentence, dependent on the first 4 words being true.

Next, the part you wanted to highlight, because you think it refutes what I say: "after you cast the healing magic your physical strength increased": At first, this seems to say that the magic did have an effect, after all, but we've just shown (based on sound grammatical principles) that this doesn't negate what she said before. This is a description of how the spell is supposed to function, and it tries to do that. Also, the following part of the sentence really shows that this part, that was supposed to happen, ends up NOT FUNCTIONING the way it NORMALLY does.

Here is a part that directly refutes your statement: "and it only made the cursed worm more lively!": You say "nowhere in chapter 2 does it say the healing magic ONLY affected the worm" (emphasis added to highlight the point), and yet, in the quote you use, she says that his magic "ONLY made the cursed worm more lively!" (emphasis again added to highlight the point). Notice that she does, in fact, use the word "ONLY" that you said wasn't used. (THE EXACT WORD!) This means that he was basically force feeding the worm, which made it grow faster than normal, especially since she also says it made the worm "more lively" which means it was more active and producing more of the poison that was killing him (a point you didn't even attempt to address). This, again, is a validation of my point, that his magic was accelerating his death, because it "didn't work" and "only made the cursed worm more lively". It also directly negates your points that the magic "was working" and that she didn't say it "only affected the worm".

Another example, from a situation in this manga, would be saying: "Your search didn't work because after you cast it, it reveals the location of monsters, but Mountain Apes have a skill that avoids detection." The middle part, that search "reveals the location of monsters" doesn't mean that the search was able to find Mountain Apes, because the beginning of the sentence tells us the search didn't work, and the end tells us why it negated the normal function of search. The middle part of the sentence you quoted doesn't mean the magic was effective, because the beginning of the sentence tells us the magic didn't work, and the end tells us why it negated the normal function of healing.

I will be quite happy if you follow through with your statement and don't reply again, since you've admitted that you have not been reading my past two replies (and thus don't give me much hope you will truly read this one), and have instead resorting to insulting me.
 
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Damn Kaido is a player. Also, why tf are the people below me writing walls of text?
 
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Dude’s house looks nice as hell. No S rank for healers is bs

And could I get you guys to write my essay
 
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@Krobelus The reason for this is more than likely due to the nature of healers in which they cannot fight monsters solo in the vast majority of cases. And she did display tendencies for several S rank abilities/healer abilities, but it IS fact that her physical abilities and lack of adventure experience would lower her overall status. That's probably the point of the series x'D
 
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Thanks for the chapter!
It's great that she got B rank, but Kaido shouldn't have pressured about getting an A rank. For starters she needs to learn the common knowledge and giving her an A rank because he said so would give credence to rumors that she's being highly rated because of him and not her own efforts. Was funny how highly rated her medicine was along with the fact the tester was surprised she detected all those people and not only got all the air out of the sphere but determined needed another bag for the air as well. The robed figure at the end is probably some high ranked noble lady who only sees Kaido for his rank and position and not who he is as a person. That and wants to use Gran as a stalking horse to get Carol out of the way without getting herself in trouble. Definitely a noble due to warped personality of happily murdering peasants for their own gains, able to get to Gran unescorted despite him being in the capital's prison and likely a cell specially prepared to prevent criminals from using magic or abilities to escape or cause trouble. After all, wouldn't put someone who can charm people or cast upper rank spells in a normal cell where they could easily escape by charming and/or killing the guards right?
 
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@Tensei21 people get really hung up on manga for some reason. It's a cute little shoujo, why analyze it like it's freaking promised neverland. Wall of texts should be left for special occasions.
 
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@daallday
Yeah that's exactly my point. Just read the manga for what it is and enjoy it. Glad someone thinks the same.
 
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The trouble with Gran isn’t over huh oh well
Also- the title e-rank healer seems useless now- or would the story do something to retain this?
 
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Soooo if the last chapters were uploaded a month apart, does that mean there's possibly a new chapter around the corner?
 
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So she's hyper-focused on medicine? To think...she wouldn't know general information about her country or even common sense) knowledge...I'm amazed. It just makes her cuter though.
 
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Ah the author needs to work on his story line this is kind of dumb.
 
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See this is why they should have death penalty that "hero" party in the first place. Also the way Kaido kept bargaining for them to change her rank to A xD. I agree she shouldn't reveal all her knowledge and know-hows
 

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