EU accepted articles 11 and 13.. What it means for mangadex?

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I want someone to make a bot that creates dozens of accounts to spam YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, and every other social media imaginable with archived memes over the past two decades just to screw with Article 13. Can't ban them if there's too much to ban.
 
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Is the EU trying to ban everything again? I remember when they had the "brilliant" idea that we should pay museums if we use the image of a work of art the museum owned . They just want to extract value even when they aren't providing anything.

Why do they pretend that copyright is sacred and should be above everything else? It isn't. They criticize China's firewall but they are creating something potentially worse here. The hypocrisy. I don't live in the EU but if this pass it will have an effect on the internet as a whole.

By the way the filter is crowdsourced , anyone can go and claim that files are copyrighted , its gonna be a mess.
 
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The EP says that memes are supposedly exempt from the directive, and things like memes are supposedly safe "for purposes of quotation, criticism, review, caricature, parody and pastiche".

Though critics say that algorithms aren't smart/nuanced enough to recognize if something is fair use or if it's infringement, and the new regulations on filtering are strict enough that tech companies aren't going to be able to enforce this without some kind of automated system (because the influx of new content is too large); and so it's unclear how these restrictions are going to be met without some kind of blanket filter that will catch lots of false positive legitimate uses in it as well.
 
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@EaterOfBooks It hasn't always been so with the EU. For example, the European Parliament rejected ACTA (which would have given global corporations power over governments/citizens). Traditionally the EU parliament has protected individual citizens' rights when the member state governments have been willing to sell them to global corporations. These two articles can also be seen in the light of protecting the small against the big ones, but unfortunately the medicine might be worse than the disease in this case.
 
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@Kaarme

If I was being a cynic, I'd say the ACTA rejection was motivated as much because the EU would have to give up it control to supra-national entities as by respect for citizens' rights, but I'm not going to be that much a cynic: it was/is a legitimately bad idea.

I can't pretend to be an expert about citizen interest vs. corporation interest in terms of the current internet and legislation affecting it, but I'm not convinced all of it is a zero-sum game, or, if it is, it's a team game between different sets of content producers, distributors, aggregators, and private individuals. (And the governments involved.)

For instance, Article 11 is within horseshoes and hand grenades range of a solution to make sure a portion of revenue from search and aggregator sites goes to creators of the content they're searching, aggregating, and displaying. It has glaring flaws, but I can see the philosophical arguments for it. That's consumer/citizens allied with search/aggregator/social sites vs. content creators (many of which are private citizens), although there's no clear definition that tells you who'd be winning.

Article 13 is basically content creators or rightsholders backed up by the government vs. LITERALLY EVERYONE ELSE IN THE SYSTEM. My current avatar is a copyrighted image clipped from a panel of Giant Slaying (best sports manga I've ever read). And that's the most common situation for, I'd wager, a good 80% of images being used on any forum, and even more on platforms like reddit and 4chan.

When you put the burden of enforcing Article 13 compliance on sites like that - well, it coming up as "image not allowed in your country" is the best case scenario. The lines get even blurrier for edited or meme images, and the net effect will probably be, as you said, a cure worse than the disease.
 
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@EaterOfBooks I haven't personally read the contents of the articles, but based on the analysis I've looked at, the main problem is how vague they are. Vague laws are always the worst (aside from tyrannical ones), because nobody really knows what's legal and what's illegal under them. However, if the "for commercial purposes" is true, then it's not nearly as bad as it could be. Nobody uses an avatar image for commercial purposes, for example. Even this whole site of Mangadex isn't operating for commercial purposes.

Speaking of cynicism, I'm always amazed by how long the Internet could operate as it has. I was sure already years ago that things would get progressively worse much faster.
 
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@Kaarme

I'm not the greatest expert on how the EU works, so I assumed the snippets I'd seen from it wouldn't be the final form of the law (it does still have to pass the council, and then be implemented by member states), because it sounds as vague as a corporate mission statement.

After some research into their lawmaking process, I fully agree with you. How in the living fuck is a document that, if submitted in an eighth-grade English class, would come back marked with "incredible vocabulary, but I can't tell what you're saying - and, Timmy, you're way over the pagecount" this close to becoming law of those lands?

I've been involved in the process that refines legislation like wuxia cultivators refine pills. (My job was mostly around keeping track of all the revisions/amendments to bills, analyses of their potential effects, etc. in a US state. I shuffled a LOT of paper, but I got to read it all, and even found some errors myself.) Coming from that context, the idea of putting anything this vague into law would be absolutely destroyed by any decent legislature. No wonder Britain is trying to bail out, if this is the sort of shit that passes through the legislative organs of the EU. (Not that Britain doesn't have its own internet regulation/freedom issues.)

Vague laws are always the worst (aside from tyrannical ones)

Are you talking about Draconic laws (massive punishment for even minor crimes) instead of tyrannical ones? Because Despotic/Tyrannical laws are often deliberately vague, so it's up to the discretion of the courts and enforcers who gets punished and who doesn't.

if the "for commercial purposes" is true, then it's not nearly as bad as it could be.

Not really, because any site sustained by ad revenue (as most scanlators are), unless it's specifically a CSO or other type of EU-recognized nonprofit, seems like it would be liable to be counted as for-profit. I mean, yes, none of this is as bad as it could be: the EU's not erecting their own version of The Great Firewall Of China yet, but it's still pretty fuckin' bad, and implementing it's going to be a huge mess for everyone.

And I can't help but see it as one more step forward by an ice giant enshrouded in a blizzard of the Chilling Effect.

Not to be a conspiracy theorist here, but what current government wouldn't want to legally crush twitter out of their country after watching the 2010 Arab Spring? The 2011 London Riots (where BBC newscasters explicitly blamed twitter for the way the rioters could organize)? The 2013 Ukraine protests (which used twitter as well)? Most major protests and mass anti-government activities in the past ~9 years have used twitter and other similar platforms to organize, spread news from the scene different than the state/official network take, and gather international support.

...And platforms like twitter get spitroasted by Articles 11 and 13 like an idol in a doujin?

Hmm...

It seems suspicious even without my tinfoil hat on.

And if we REALLY want to put on our tinfoil hats, consider the possibilities for under-the-table leverage Article 13's broad rules gives. The EU trading suppression of certain topics or news on search engine and social media for a bit of leeway in the EU's handling of their Article 11/13 cases. That's the real conspiracy theory.

And, as you pointed out, the law is vague enough for that.
 
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@EaterOfBooks No, I'm specifically talking about tyrannical laws in pretty much the same context as you describe them. Draconian laws are very rarely the correct ones (correct as in most conducive to promoting order and prosperity) but there are very specific circumstances where they are necessary. Tyrannical laws are nothing more than an extension of the ruling philosophy "might makes right" which is so malleable that no practical legal structure can be built out of it. You might manage enough restrictions to keep lawless actions out of the public eye, but they will happen regularly and frequently to the point where everyone with any experience at all knows what's really going on.
 
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@ninjadork We're in something as close to full agreement as you can get on a definition there. Sorry if I didn't express it well - it was part of my point to @Kaarme, agreeing what you'd said.

Ironically, the laws Draco wrote down in ancient Athens were a significant progression from the previous systems there (where people were manipulating the oral legal tradition), although they had exceedingly large punishments.
 
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@421cookies Draconian laws are named after Draco of Athens, a Greek legislator and reformer (among other things) who got sick and tired of the corrupt weasel-speaking bullshit that was the standard legal environment. So when he came into power, he created a series of laws that were clear, concise, and forced horrendously brutal punishments on lawbreakers. To the best of my knowledge, his legal standard is one of if not the very first legislative codes of its kind, which is to say a clearly established set of laws that were supposed to be applied equally to everyone.

Tyranny and its derivatives are derived from the Greek word tyrannous, meaning "ruler of the city (polis is the Greek word for city)". Because of the nature of Greek politics at the time, the word became further defined as "someone who rules over others in an arbitrary, oppressive, unjust, and frequently cruel manner". Plato and Aristotle were the first prominent figures to establish a consistent definition for the term, IIRC.

In old myths and legends, dragons (or dracons / drakons) are often described as monsters and/or beings that care nothing for "lesser" beings, so the concept of draconian was basically ported over to be their name when those tales were written down.

The T-Rex is designated as Tyrannosaurus Rex for its genus and species in scientific notation, since it was considered one of the mightiest predatory dinosaurs discovered at the time when those things were first being classified.

@DANDAN_THE_DANDAN That sounds like an incredibly stupid and over-the-top manga. I want to read it.
 
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@EaterOfBooks I just threw tyrannical there as a disclaimer to point to laws found in oppressive countries making it criminal, for example, to criticise the goverment or for women to drive a car, etc. The kind of laws that can only exist in oppressive countries. I'd also say the German nearly total ban of the swastika symbol is also a tyrannical law from the other end of the spectrum. While the intention might be good, to hamper any second coming of fascism, it's ridiculous historical games (or manga published in Germany, I imagine) need to replace the symbol with something else. That's tyrannical.
 
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8 days til Halloween Necro Festival

I've chosen this thread today cause this cause a bit of a scare back then; I wonder if this law been ratified yet. Its been 2 years. This may be a cove but hopefully someday official translations will be easier to access with better translations but reforms are necessary.

"Time runs differently in an air conditioned room"
 
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Og0lmvp.jpg
 
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Hmm in hindsight, I guess I'm just timetravelling i'll take off the countdown to not confuse you mortals
 

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