Fallen Angels

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@Houdini
>had no activity on MangaDex or any websites affiliated with that group for a period of 4 month
>any
Impressive reading comprehension you've got there. :V
I mean dude, use your brain for at least half a minute! If that actually meant what you seem to think it does, what would this little hissy fit of yours even do?
Let me give you a little spoiler: NOOOOOTHIIIIIIIING
After 4 months, people could simply go back to uploading your stuff and that would be the end of that.
But you know, at this point I can't help but hope that's precisely what it means.
we don't need to waste our time to upload nothing here
If that was ever a factor, why care about upload restrictions to begin with?!
I mean Jesus fucking Christ...

And just so you know, as a scanlator myself but more importantly as a reader, I only ever go to a groups site to read the latest chapter when there is a reasonable delay policy in place and I'm in the middle of a reading binge.
A no upload policy though? I just go to another aggregator. Way more convenient.


@iZN
That rule also gets your owner access revoked, members deleted.
Really? Where does it actually say that though?

Edit: It's actually 6 months now. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
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You guys can say what you want, but we WON'T UPLOAD HERE ANYMORE. Since the get go we didn't wanted to be uploaded here, that's all.
 
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@Carnage: it happened with a group I personally know. they don't mention it is the whole argument, the whole rule thing is very ambiguous. the group can be considered dead, all members cleared out and not to be of concern to dex team which makes it a whole lot of a shitty concept.

they want to be another aggregator, they can keep being one. that would mean we're just wasting our personal time to upload here while there's a potential once we die it'll be all for naught cuz of random policing. we have more freedom on our own site.
 
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@Houdini
Okay. :V
I'm just saying your reasoning is, at least from what you've said so far, asinine and frankly makes you kind of look like a halfwit. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
But... you do you, man. You do you.

@iZN
If your time is actually that precious, why would you ever need to care about upload restrictions in the first place? Just leave random people to upload however they want and stop caring. What's with all the fussing.
that would mean we're just wasting our personal time to upload here while there's a potential once we die it'll be all for naught cuz of random policing. we have more freedom on our own site.
Wait, am I reading this right? You actually want people to keep caring about your upload restrictions once your group is long dead? You gotta be kidding me, my dude. Like, I have to be misreading this. There is no way you think you're actually that entitled. As, no matter how much we try to sugercoat it, we're still fucking pirates. You still totally remember that and aren't actually that shameless, right? Please? Oh gawd, please let me just be wrong about this. I really don't want to have read that correctly...
 
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@Carnage ... whatever you say m8. I wasn't even talking about the upload restrictions, read my first paragraph from the previous message again. We don't want to get removed from our own group.

This site considers themselves that they care about all scanlators. I don't think so. Fancy features doesn't makes it any better either. Even batoto had more control on your group stuff except for upload restrictions which I don't even care about. This upload restriction was made waaay back then because people kept uploading the first version of our chapters where their might be some errors that we quickly fix. I didn't want to reupload all the time because some people just can't wait.
 
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@iZN
Yeah, I just kinda zeroed in on that one first, because, you know, just making sure that wasn't the real story behind this...
But yeah, no way that's the case. I mean hey, that wouldn't even make sense. Just no way. /o/

That said, I'm not even exactly sure what that means. "They cleared out" or "They were cleared out"? Did you actually try and contact staff to confirm? Heck, did they actually contact staff about it, to make sure that wasn't just some sort of server hiccup or other random accident? Like, this site is still basically a construction site. And from what I gathered, they haven't even fully established most of the infrastructure necessary to deal with most issues that could potentially crop up. And even less so in a speedy manner.
So I dunno, but for now, that doesn't exactly make for a tangible piece of information. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Beyond that, one could still argue about whether any of this happening to your group page even matters, after you've died. But I won't get into that one.
But honestly, I think that would actually make for a bigger hassle to the dex team, as they basically have to go reorganize everything every time a group reenters active status again.
It just kinda seems like hilariously huge waste of time. And if they simply choose to not do that then, well... before long, they're gonna have a very big mob of very angry scanlators at their doorsteps. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
And I don't know, but I'd figure they'd at least be smart enough to keep up appearances. /o/
 
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@Carnage: They were cleared out and yes, we had a lot of discussion about this whole thing already at their Discord. It's still unclear so we backed away.
 
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@iZN
Whose discord? The discord of that group that was cleared out or the MangaDex discord? And if the latter, was the MD staff even involved? As in, someone who can actually take responsibility?
And "unclear" doesn't sound convincing either.
 
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@Carnage Of fucking course it was the MangaDex discord and staff. They have been pulling this shit for a while. See https://mangadex.org/title/23569/gokushufudou-the-way-of-the-house-husband

See all those "colored" chapters? The dude who did this ripped the scanlator's scans without their permission. The group asked that they be taken down and MD said "lol nah". They're after views, not protecting scanlators.

Real scanlators don't give a shit about views. This is a hobby to us.
 
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@Carnage

Tarage is incorrect. Seems he jumped in the channel and joined the bandwagon without actually reading what was happening:

notarg%20(2).PNG

notarg%20(1).PNG


He spoke to us and was totally cool with us... Even thanked us.

Real scanlators are nice.
 
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When Mangadex refuses to act like the quality police and not instantly trash this random group's work despite the fact that most of the people don't like it and it's getting a fraction of the original's views, I don't understand how you draw the conclusion that therefore MD doesn't care about groups and is all about the views. Maybe it's just me but that seems like the polar opposite of what happened.
 
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@ixlone
No matter then.
But seeing how you're already here and all, could you shed some light on this whole group clearing out business?
 
is a Reindeer
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@Carnage There seems to be confusion about this rule. So this is our attempt at clarifying it:

2.4 If a group has had no releases on MangaDex or any websites affiliated with that group for a period of 6 months, the group will be considered inactive.

2.4.1 It is possible to request a removal of inactive groups' upload restrictions.

This means that a group is considered inactive by the community standard - MangaUpdates - of 6 months of no releases. No action is automatically taken at this point. However, a member of the community may petition to have an "inactive" locked group unlocked after the 6 months should there be outstanding chapters not yet uploaded by a group.

Should this be the case we will confirm manually that the group is indeed inactive. We do this by checking their group page, Mangaupdates and by visiting their own website to look for releases. We check all three to confirm they are indeed inactive and not that they simply do not post their content to MangaDex or that Mangaupdates is out of date.

Upon receiving a valid unlock request we will post a 7 day notice on the group's page on MangaDex and send a PM to the group leader or other still active group members. An example of the notice sent: https://mangadex.org/thread/4470/1/#post_113253 . There are plans in place to add the ability to receive an email when you have an outstanding PM on the site. Which we hope will make this process even more visible in the future. If a group contacts us and let's us know they are active, but waiting on a volume release for some new raws, are busy with personal circumstances, etc, we will reject the unlock request for the time being. A group can re-claim their group at any future time. It will always be available to them.

After the 7 days notice expires we will unlock the group, remove upload restrictions and remove the members from the members section and move them to a "Former members" Hall of Fame in the group's description. This is done to prevent the re-locking of a group, deleting chapters, or even sabotaging already uploaded chapters. There are also plans to change how we handle removing members. Instead of removing members we hope to add a feature to toggle the activity of a group to inactive. This would leave the members in place, but lock access to group controls - should a group become active again they would simply have to nudge us to change the status back to active.

We are completely open to exemptions being made for content. For example, if a group absolutely does not want a series to be hosted due to it being licensed we will honour that request. Simply let us know.

Regarding the example at hand, in the case of One Snowshoe, we still haven't been contacted by any of their members about removing any particular chapters that they don't want on MangaDex, nor have we received a reply to the notification PM we sent.

As for why rule 2.4 exists: We believe there needs to be a balance between the needs of the readers and the needs of the scanlators. MangaDex relies on not only the goodwill of active scanlation groups allowing their chapters to be uploaded, but also on an active, growing reader-base making MangaDex the best alternative for groups to reach their audiences. One of our main concerns is that if the chapters are only available on an ad-infested, malware hosting service like Kissmanga then we are forcing readers to access a site that is not beneficial to scanlators in any way, shape or form. Hosting them on MangaDex will make sure that the original group is always remembered.

The backlash against this rule was unfortunate but not wholly unexpected. Nevertheless, a compromise had to be found, and our rules reflect our best attempts at attaining one. Catering to only the needs of one side or the other would lead to the end of this site.

As soon as the site supports the full implementation of the previously described inactivity feature, rule 2.4 will be updated to reflect it.
2.4 A group that has had no new releases on MangaDex or any websites affiliated with that group for a period of 6 months is eligible by the request of any user to become marked as inactive.
2.4.1 Upon receiving an inactivation request, MangaDex staff will attempt to contact and notify the group.
2.4.1.1 It is possible for the notified group to request becoming exempt from being marked as inactive [for a period of up to 2 months].
2.4.1.2 If the group is not exempted, it will be marked as inactive after 2 weeks from the initial notification.
2.4.2 An inactive group will have all of its upload restrictions lifted and its leader and members will no longer have automatic editing and deleting permissions to the chapters associated with the group.
2.4.3 Should the group resume releasing new content, it will no longer be considered inactive and the normal permissions will be restored.
 
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@Plykiya
Sounds reasonable, so far. At least I can't think of anything I'd regard as immediately worthy of criticism.
And yeah, I do rather agree that the reader base is also a noteworthy part of the equation.
Glad to know I'm not actually the only one who feels that way. /o/

@iZN
If this hasn't already put your concerns to rest, then I think this should represent an excellent opportunity to actually address them.
What 'ya say, eh?
 
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@iZN @Houdini Both of your arguments don't make sense, "The rule disregards the group's members". The rule only applies to dead groups and in One Snowshoe's example, they haven't released a chapter in over a year and had group restrictions on their group to stop uploads. The rule is only there to make sure no scanlation goes missing, and only the highest quality scanlation to be uploaded. One Snowshoe knew they never released a chapter in over a month, got that 7 day notice and still never contacted any mod about it. In a fit of not wanting to understand the rule, both of you (houdini and iZN) went to the discord server to rage on the rule, even though you never understood the whole story properly and in a fit of anger and ego that you could lock uploads, did that and stopped uploading for a rule that doesn't apply to your group in anyway.
You deciding not to upload to MangaDex is another way of supporting aggregators (KissManga) who upload any series regardless of group delays or group's wishes for the series to not be uploaded on said websites and they profit on your releases with their ads and lower image quality. Saying people can read off our site is a small minded view point as you disregard all the mobile users that have manga apps that automatically update their manga library and/or download any new updates from the aggregators that lower your image quality so that the chapters could be read offline. Most manga readers don't even go to the scanlator's site to read manga, but go to aggregators to read the releases as that is where they know they can read from. MangaDex provides the original quality of any chapters available, if available and you choosing not to upload here is that same as a child in a fit, grow up and stop being so childish with these stupid reasons.

I'm saying all of this as your active readers that did read from the site or from their phone offline, now had to move to another aggregator to get the chapters from.
 
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@Xunder

Both of your arguments don't make sense, "The rule disregards the group's members". The rule only applies to dead groups and in One Snowshoe's example, they haven't released a chapter in over a year and had group restrictions on their group to stop uploads.

Group restrictions were removed meaning MangaDex disregarded the group's wishes.

The rule is only there to make sure no scanlation goes missing, and only the highest quality scanlation to be uploaded.

I don't remember MangaDex having a right to host all scanlations. Also the highest quality scanlation? I highly doubt that. More than a few chapters were ripped from other aggregators because MangaDex was a free-for-all upload in the beginning. Not every uploader went to the original scanlation site to rip the chapters. Moreover, it is a very arduous task to go through all the uploads by other people and make sure it's the chapter you released.

One Snowshoe ... got that 7 day notice

MangaDex proudly displays One Snowshoe's discord link, despite them being "dead". They could have tried that. Alas, they only care when a group wishes to remove their uploads. For example, Easy Going Scans. They planned on removing their uploads and hadn't even contacted MangaDex staff about that when two staff members joined their discord the day after.

you never understood the whole story properly and in a fit of anger and ego that you could lock uploads, did that and stopped uploading for a rule that doesn't apply to your group in anyway.

The whole story isn't that hard to understand. I seriously doubt that either of them didn't take the time to understand what was going on before taking action. Moreover, they went to the MangaDex discord for clarification and took action based on that. (iZN and Houdini are free to correct me if I said something incorrect).

You deciding not to upload to MangaDex is another way of supporting aggregators (KissManga) who upload any series regardless of group delays or group's wishes for the series to not be uploaded on said websites

This argument is probably the dumbest one I ever hear. "By not supporting one aggregator, you are supporting other aggregators". Many groups have their own site, they're not required to "support" any aggregators.

Saying people can read off our site is a small minded view point as you disregard all the mobile users that have manga apps that automatically update their manga library and/or download any new updates

Last I checked, Tachiyomi supports Fallen Angels's site.

I'm saying all of this as your active readers that did read from the site or from their phone offline, now had to move to another aggregator to get the chapters from.

Like I mentioned before, this argument is dumb. Many active readers do read from manga.fascans.com (like they are directed to on the group page). For Android users, they can use tachiyomi or the aforementioned website.
 
Miku best girl
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Since day 1, the rules have stated that all scanlation is eligible for hosting on MD, with the only exception of active groups coming here to take control of their releases and remove if they want to. This rule exists to balance the needs of groups and readers. This is important because without groups, there are no scanlations and without readers there is no support to keep the site running.

If anyone had an issue with this rule, MD would not have grown to the size it is today.
 
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@Holo

Since day 1, the rules have stated that all scanlation is eligible for hosting on MD, with the only exception of active groups coming here to take control of their releases and remove if they want to.

I don't think MangaDex started on May 4, 2018.

New Rules Announcement: https://mangadex.org/thread/7947/major-update-site-rules-and-uploading-have-been-extensively-reworked

Old Rules: https://web.archive.org/web/20180501164643/https://mangadex.org/rules
 
Miku best girl
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Before clarification of the rules, while it was not explicitly stated, it was most certainly implied.
It was only clarified for total avoidance of doubt.
 
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