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holy shit I love grandma
Fate/type Redline - Vol. 2 Ch. 5.2
- Thread starter MangaDex
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Grandma ain't your bitch, Izou!
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Yes Okita came from recent story but didn't they underrate her a bit much? The King Arthur from the legends didn't even exist. King Arthur from real life was a totally different person. And if you ask me, way more of a badass.
But since they overrate Gilgamesh and King Arthur I can see why they would underrate Okita Souji.
But since they overrate Gilgamesh and King Arthur I can see why they would underrate Okita Souji.
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@BloodySorcerer Arthur and Gilgamesh are both world-famous legends who captured the imagination of humanity for millennia. Compared to them Okita is a nobody who died less than a hundred years before this war and is pretty much unknown outside her home country.
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Also there was no "real" King Arthur. Historians haven't found any conclusive evidence that he was a real person and not just a legend.
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the difference between historical and imaginary servants has always been a reason for discussion, the words of assasin must be interpreted as follows: the catalyst that they gave you and a fake, could not work from the beginning! the grandmother understands that the truth is told as seen on the second page, Arthur can only be evoked in certain conditions, while the historical ones are less precious!
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Okita is a powerful swordsman with 2 reality warping abilities so she definitely belongs in the Saber class despite her newness compared to most of her peers. However, in canon (aka outside of FGO mechanics) she still falls behind Servants from time periods where mystery and magic were abundant. Still, it might actually be lucky she was summoned instead of Artoria. With how Nobbu's skills work and the Grail War taking place in Japan granting Nobbu a massive boost to all of her abilities, she might've torn Artoria to to shreds and they would've been dead within the first encounter.
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@Mehahviing Gilgamesh at least achiveved something, but neither of his legends justify the amount of power he has in Fate/SN . But Arthur only fought normal humans using a magical sword. He is the very definition of overrated.
Chulainn soloed an entire army by himself, he also fought witches and curse users, and he didn't even depend on his Gae Bulg, he was also known to use other weapons.
Heracles Defeated the most dangerous creatures in his land, an almost invincible giant and the hydra, as well as build an entire freaking road, and a motherfreaking temple all by himself.
And if we go by Okita's story the guy was a freaking genius who was already fighting at the early age of 9 years old, he was considered to be the most talented among the shinsengumi. The Shinsengumi were vastly outnumbered and their members can be considered to be among the best swordsmen of their time, they fought at a time when guns were an active asset on the battlefields, and he only died early due to sickness, not for being bested in the battlefield. So yes he does deserve better stats. If we go by legends Nobunaga also lacks the recognition of someone like King Arthur but she has absurdly high stats. And she's not even someone of the caliber of Yoshitsune, the guy considered to be the best samurai to have ever lived.
Chulainn soloed an entire army by himself, he also fought witches and curse users, and he didn't even depend on his Gae Bulg, he was also known to use other weapons.
Heracles Defeated the most dangerous creatures in his land, an almost invincible giant and the hydra, as well as build an entire freaking road, and a motherfreaking temple all by himself.
And if we go by Okita's story the guy was a freaking genius who was already fighting at the early age of 9 years old, he was considered to be the most talented among the shinsengumi. The Shinsengumi were vastly outnumbered and their members can be considered to be among the best swordsmen of their time, they fought at a time when guns were an active asset on the battlefields, and he only died early due to sickness, not for being bested in the battlefield. So yes he does deserve better stats. If we go by legends Nobunaga also lacks the recognition of someone like King Arthur but she has absurdly high stats. And she's not even someone of the caliber of Yoshitsune, the guy considered to be the best samurai to have ever lived.
@BloodySorcerer dude chill. The power comparisons in fate are a waste of time, nasu doesn't give a shit about them, he just uses the heroes as pretty girls to move the story along.
Most of the power levels don't even make sense if you think about it, since modern heroes are born from more rational legends, like defeating 10 or 20 guys unarmed (which is ridiculuos by itself) while older ones are just "oh i happened to killed 3 gods and razed a continent today, and i still didn't have breakfast".
By that metric, anything from 1000 dc onwards would be shit compared to the heroes from before.
Most of the power levels don't even make sense if you think about it, since modern heroes are born from more rational legends, like defeating 10 or 20 guys unarmed (which is ridiculuos by itself) while older ones are just "oh i happened to killed 3 gods and razed a continent today, and i still didn't have breakfast".
By that metric, anything from 1000 dc onwards would be shit compared to the heroes from before.
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Lol imagine compare servants from recent time(Age of Man) where the Mystery and Magic are backward not to mention that figure only a normal human when alive not even a magus and servants from ancient/way older time not to mention if they live in Age of Gods/Fairies where basically the normal people there WAY WAY stronger than people from Age of Man bcs of Mystery and Magic there are insane...Even Fujimaru(ordinary human that also can use magecraft a lill bit) have to use a special mystice code in Babylonia(AoG) so he can survive bcs people from Age of Man will die only from the environment there (remember that this is the normal circumstance)...also Okita by no means weak, only downside of her are her magic resistant and TBC skill...she is one of the fastest saber out there not to mention her swords skill and Mystic technique
Also the only "King Arthur" that use Excalibur is only one(Proto also count as the same individual only that he come from diff world than Arthuria)
And who said that Arthuria only a normal human and only have magical sword? She basically have Dragon's blood so she have Magic Core insted of Magic Circuits...pretty much like Siegfried and Sigurd bcs of their Dragon inheritence...not to mention her Knight like Gawain,Lancelot,etc...heck she even fight a real Dragon that can oblitared a Country in seconds...not to mention normal people from modern or Age of Man are WAY weaker compare to normal people in Age of Gods or Age of Fairies (Normally)
Also why you guys commenting like Fate is IRL history or legend where their just a baseline in the actual Nasuverse lore? This is fiction
Also the only "King Arthur" that use Excalibur is only one(Proto also count as the same individual only that he come from diff world than Arthuria)
And who said that Arthuria only a normal human and only have magical sword? She basically have Dragon's blood so she have Magic Core insted of Magic Circuits...pretty much like Siegfried and Sigurd bcs of their Dragon inheritence...not to mention her Knight like Gawain,Lancelot,etc...heck she even fight a real Dragon that can oblitared a Country in seconds...not to mention normal people from modern or Age of Man are WAY weaker compare to normal people in Age of Gods or Age of Fairies (Normally)
Also why you guys commenting like Fate is IRL history or legend where their just a baseline in the actual Nasuverse lore? This is fiction
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@TheMagicToaster Wdym FGO mecanics? Do you mean FGO gameplay or Lore? Bcs her lore there is the same in FGO...also FGO is canon if you considered the other Fate outside FSN series(Zero to Ataraxia) are canon
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@Mrxyn Sorry, what I meant was gameplay mechanics in FGO. Because a lot of Servants are super OP in Fate lore the gameplay mechanics of FGO are separate from their actual canon abilities. Okita is one of the best Sabers in FGO when it comes to gameplay because of her kit but in Fate lore she’s still one of the weakest Servants available for the Saber class. Just like how Herakles in the original F/SN is almost indestructible because of God Hand but in FGO gameplay he’s more like a glass cannon because of how the Berserker class works (unless you Bond 10 him) and because God Hand was replaced with Nine Lives for balancing purposes.
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@TheMagicToaster yeah, Game mechanics =/= Lore after all...and the dumbest misconception about FGO probably Rarity = Actual Servant's Strength lol
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@Rhin my problem is the clear bias and lack of consistency which is actually a very valid argument against any story regardless of genre. You can easily see that in Fate, where the characters the Author seem to have more familiarity with are ranked higher, and the ones he knows less are weaker than they should be.
Back in the day, King arthur was pretty damn famous yes, but honestly the king arthur and his knights are less than garbage compared to any greek mythological hero.
And Gilgamesh is another overrated character, because while he was indeed powerful, he wasn't really more powerful than heroes from other mythologies, you can easily tell by his acchievements. Most of which were restricted to things of his own time and to a very small area, more importantly, which when it comes to his very specific circunstances, shed some doubt on how powerful he would be it other heroes were at play. unlike Greek heroes for example who managed to face and defeat enemies that we can clearly see how powerful they were. Or the norse and germanic, whose heroes were pretty much comic book super heroes. The problem is, that even more modern stories present some ridiculous acchievements which are worth comparing to any fantastic character.
Okita Souji for example was believed to have an ability that was so fast and so impossible to defend that it hit 3 different places at the exact same time, the guy pretty much ignored the laws of physics, it's by all means a magical attack. This is actually a feat comparable to anything heroes from older stories acchieved. This could easily put him above Odysseus, for example.
Who was a much more human hero, but still managed to do great things(such as defeating the Cyclops, and being the only person to escape alive from Hades domain) even without many magical acchievements of his own, doing things on wit and fast action. I'm not saying that they should be stronger to the point on beating some mythological heroes, but not be so weak that they can be compared to classes such as the assassin class, for example.
Back in the day, King arthur was pretty damn famous yes, but honestly the king arthur and his knights are less than garbage compared to any greek mythological hero.
And Gilgamesh is another overrated character, because while he was indeed powerful, he wasn't really more powerful than heroes from other mythologies, you can easily tell by his acchievements. Most of which were restricted to things of his own time and to a very small area, more importantly, which when it comes to his very specific circunstances, shed some doubt on how powerful he would be it other heroes were at play. unlike Greek heroes for example who managed to face and defeat enemies that we can clearly see how powerful they were. Or the norse and germanic, whose heroes were pretty much comic book super heroes. The problem is, that even more modern stories present some ridiculous acchievements which are worth comparing to any fantastic character.
Okita Souji for example was believed to have an ability that was so fast and so impossible to defend that it hit 3 different places at the exact same time, the guy pretty much ignored the laws of physics, it's by all means a magical attack. This is actually a feat comparable to anything heroes from older stories acchieved. This could easily put him above Odysseus, for example.
Who was a much more human hero, but still managed to do great things(such as defeating the Cyclops, and being the only person to escape alive from Hades domain) even without many magical acchievements of his own, doing things on wit and fast action. I'm not saying that they should be stronger to the point on beating some mythological heroes, but not be so weak that they can be compared to classes such as the assassin class, for example.
@BloodySorcerer yeah i get where you are coming from, but unfortunately the nasuverse (including things like KnK and tsukihime) is a walking contradiction.
They say whatever they need to make a series work, and then they just change it however they seem fit for the nexts eries.
I can site TONS of examples of this, but lets go with just a few :
Remember how originally, servants power level was related to their fame, and they were fighting in their home country? Scrapped
Remember how divine spirits COULD NOT be servants, because they couldnt fit in the classes oh the HGW? Scrapped.
Remember how only actual legends could be servants, and not an amalgamation of fake stories or made up characters? Holmes and nursery rhyme say hi.
I could go on like this for a while if i want to.
Fate may be a franchise, but i prefer to think of each work as a separate series, otherwise the contradictions will make the entire work beyond unreadable.
They say whatever they need to make a series work, and then they just change it however they seem fit for the nexts eries.
I can site TONS of examples of this, but lets go with just a few :
Remember how originally, servants power level was related to their fame, and they were fighting in their home country? Scrapped
Remember how divine spirits COULD NOT be servants, because they couldnt fit in the classes oh the HGW? Scrapped.
Remember how only actual legends could be servants, and not an amalgamation of fake stories or made up characters? Holmes and nursery rhyme say hi.
I could go on like this for a while if i want to.
Fate may be a franchise, but i prefer to think of each work as a separate series, otherwise the contradictions will make the entire work beyond unreadable.
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@BloodySorcerer
@Rhin
You know, if you guys are just going to go all complaining, whining, and b#tching how the Fate series is all ruined for you, I don't think this is the proper place for it.
Is hard to just let everyone else enjoy the chapter?
🤔
@Rhin
You know, if you guys are just going to go all complaining, whining, and b#tching how the Fate series is all ruined for you, I don't think this is the proper place for it.
Is hard to just let everyone else enjoy the chapter?
🤔
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@Renko
"Is hard to just let everyone else enjoy the chapter?"
Yes it actually, is because if someone felt like this comment line has been disrupting their enjoyment then the problem lies on them.
It's one thing to use your argument on people saying, "this manga is garbage, no one should read this crap"
It's another entirely to use it on people commenting on genuine, specific problems in certain aspects of the story. The comment section is made to comment on chapters, and we've been doing this
"Is hard to just let everyone else enjoy the chapter?"
Yes it actually, is because if someone felt like this comment line has been disrupting their enjoyment then the problem lies on them.
It's one thing to use your argument on people saying, "this manga is garbage, no one should read this crap"
It's another entirely to use it on people commenting on genuine, specific problems in certain aspects of the story. The comment section is made to comment on chapters, and we've been doing this
