General Story Idea Dump by The Forum Lurker//IfYouHaveAnyIdeaButItStillInDraftAndYouWantPeopleToReadIt,YouCanWriteHere//TheLimitForCharacterTitleIs151

[undeed]

Finally,

Spoiler: the magic variety

So, using the power mechanics system that I established, I can say that magic incantations, magic circles, ninjutsu, wand waving, etc. etc. are essentially the same thing, just the way they are used is different.
Now I can have an RPG world where (to me at least ) it makes sense for wizards, sorcerers, ninjas, healers, bards, whatever they are. to exist and live together under the same rules of the world.
It's just that different nations, different cultures, different clans, teach their children using different methods, mnemonics, and calculation formulas. So they all looks different, feels different, but if you understand the basics, they are all actually of the same root.

Just as the design of guns and bullets differ between countries in war, but the fundamental power is still gunpowder and projectiles. (I think? I don't know much about guns)
That's why I gave FMA anime/manga a 10 on my list, because it conforms to my idea. (I gave 9 to most other similar manga)
Well, it's more like I'm the one copying (read: inspired by) them. I just expanded the "alchemy power" into "general magic power".

Spoiler: character class

I once wrote a plot that chanting wizards are mostly battle mages/magic knights. There were also religious nations that the incantations are in the form of prayers. (obviously, right?)
You could have bard clans that use songs and poetry. Different nations, different songs.
But it's essentially the same thing, since they are all just mnemonics.
You could have a Harry Potter-style clan that is basically using muscle memory and hand movement as the mnemonics. Like those who can't speak without moving their hands.
So on and so forth
Thus, it's natural that the same attack/effect can appear from different method. Just like in RPG games like WOW.
(I mean, I don't play a ton of RPGs, so I wouldn't know)

I designed two types of magic circle users.
First, wizards who use magic wands to draw magic circles in space. They actually use the floating images as visual cues.
Like someone who is better at remembering colors and visual shapes.
The second is wizards who draws magic circles on paper (or magic circuit). The idea is that this clan is innately poor at controlling their MP (basically Naruto).
So they use the circuits to physically limit and perform the calculations for them, so they can just blindly pouring MP to it.
The former is the main source of grimoires, and the latter is the main source of scrolls and magic tools/weapons.

to be continued to closing statement

 

[undeed]

Spoiler: grimoires

I'm still working on grimoires, because I always have problem with the idea that you need to read the whole book just to learn a single spell.
Like in Frieren, I think that's concept is stupid.
I'm okay with the idea that grimoires are rare because they are handwritten, or that you need to research them to understand their contents. Because they contain secret magic formulas and drawings, so they are encrypted so that only the owner understand them (basically like what is done in FMA).

But I couldn't come up with a satisfactory idea for how to commercially sell grimoires or how they could end up in public libraries, like many fantasy stories depict them.
I could think a concept for scrolls, but not grimoires.
In my mind, Grimoires are supposed to be for personal use only, for mnemonic purposes. Maybe for those with poor memorization, like Negima's father.
Or simply secret, protected, and encrypted research books/documentations, like in FMA.
But it shouldn't be able to act as consumables for someone to learn a spell.
At least not in this world that I designed.

Because they're secret formulas reserved for themselves, or at most research documents for their clans/nations. So, it's a top-secret stuff.
This way, you can have plots about the dark side and assassination stories that revolve around guarding these secrets.
Because with this mechanic, even if you're not a bard or healer, as long as you know the math sequence hidden inside the mnemonic, be it magic circles, songs, or prayers, you can cast any magic, buff, or healing spell by yourself, regardless of your class.

Well, technically, everyone can do buff and healing, but we can design it so that each nation has its own quirks and specialties, so they tend to focus and improve specific things, and neglect the research for other things. And fights between characters from different nations can involve trying to figure out what is the other side is doing. So that counter attacks felt logical.

That's all for now, I guess.
As you can see, I am inspired (i.e. shamelessly copied a lot of stuff) from a lot of stories
like obviously FMA, Death March isekai, Witch Hat, etc. just to mention a few, can't remember them all.
I also once designed the concept for the monsters and weapons, but that's maybe for another day.

 

[Madologist]

For example, 30+30+40 for fire, and 30+40+30 for water, or something like that.

Doing it without Mnemonics and relying solely on mental calculations is much less accurate in using your MP.
Like, you might instead spend 33 + 27 + 41 = 101. You'll still meet the 100 MP required for a fire spell, but you won't get the bonus damage.

Different, but amusingly in Youjo Senki, before they came up with the computional jewels, magic was very impractical as the users would have to do a lot of math and calculations to actually accomplish anything. Presumably, they would draw out very complicated magical circles and scribbles and then use those as casting aid. The series doesn't really ever address pre jewel magic sadly.
With the gem-computers the magicians could outsource a good chunk of the mental math and finally cast spells in swift progression. This lead to them becoming actual elements in warfare and once they mastered flight, the world got human shaped assault helicopters before they had even started the first world war.

I'm still working on grimoires, because I always have problem with the idea that you need to read the whole book just to learn a single spell.
Like in Frieren, I think that's concept is stupid.

You ever wonder if the grimoires are actually just a couple pages actually explaining the spell and then 90% filler and yap from the author. Like a cookbook, where you have the life story of the author hiding all the recipes.

Whole concept of "spellbooks" has always bothered me, the DND kind. What do they actually do?
Like are the wizards so shit at their craft that unless they prepare all of their spells in the book, they can't do shit? Those are some incompetent conjurers if you ask me.
To me a grimoire is essentially a math, physics, chemistry etc book. It contains the theory and some examples and even questions to ponder on how to learn a school of magic or if the spell is advanced enough, just that. Sure anyone can read a book about say general relativity, but to actually understand and master it is another thing.

basically like what is done in FMA

FMA is quite peak and hilights how much Arakawa did research on historical alchemy. The symbols, ie lion eating sun and such are all stuff European alchemists used in their codexes and indeed, they did write in code so that only practicers would understand it. Wouldn't surprise me, if all the alchemical circles are based on 18th and 19th century occultism.

Neat ideas and it really hilights how much fantasy media just has all kinds of flashy showings, be it hand signs, gestures, floating symbols, incantations and so on, but very rarely does a magic system actually delve into what do those actually do.

Harry Potter

And talk about undeveloped handwaved magic system...
Like what actually are requirements to learn a spell? I think all Rowling ever delved into was the iconic Avada Kedavra, where the spell would fail, unless you really wanted with full intent to kill someone or something.

 

[a_singular_strike]

To hell with original ideas, just give me an adaption of Darkest Dungeon 1

Though I don't know what it would be like without Wayne June
No one can remind me better, that overconfidence is a slow and insidious killer, than him.

(To be honest, I am curious how they will handle it with Darkest Dungeon 2, should it get more content.)

 

[Doedoel]

Fantasy Backrooms would be an interesting concept. A weird rip in reality to some weird unfinished dimension left behind by the creator god(s) and radiating with the raw energy of creation - still occasionally spawning new horrendous abominations into existence that prey upon anyone that wonders into them and occasionally escape into the world proper. Then you could have every and all monster be a distant descendant of those outside creatures that have adapted into the world or alternatively they could be creatures that have wondered into the BackDungeon, mutated and then dumped randomly back into the world.

Do you mind if I implement this idea on my story? I love your explanation of this "Fantasy Backroom" because it's similar to my story's "The World Beyond"

 

[Madologist]

Do you mind if I implement this idea on my story? I love your explanation of this "Fantasy Backroom" because it's similar to my story's "The World Beyond"

Sure go ahead.

 

[Basic_human]

What I hate most in fantasy stories is when a character is introduced as having a power that only they and they alone can wield.

I think this still could work if the magic is something that engraved on the body of the user. I had this concept for sorcerer able use magic because they have a magic stone inside of them. This idea come to me from so many trope of magical beast having "magic stone" as a core that's why they are able to wield magic. This magic stone work kind like motherboard doing calculation and executing command that engraved. Then I thought "why doesn't spell caster have it?" That I think that one good reason to make people power are unique and different from each other by making that magic stone different from one person to another

You can also use explanation like each people have thing they good at, it's like engineering there are building, machinery and so on. Maybe even if the basic is same mathematical what they specialize is different

 

[Basic_human]

magic was very impractical as the users would have to do a lot of math and calculations to actually accomplish anything

In the end we all concluded magic is a combination of math or computer code to executed and work.

With the gem-computers the magicians could outsource a good chunk of the mental math and finally cast spells in swift progression.

It's like accelerator from Magical Index huh, it's neat that again... If you think about it it's a lot of math and code.

Like are the wizards so shit at their craft that unless they prepare all of their spells in the book, they can't do shit?

Maybe it's work like a prepared ammunition for them. Having to conjure and do the whole math is like trying to created artillery shot from the scratch on spot, while having it prepared beforehand give you the advantage.

Do you mind if I implement this idea on my story? I love your explanation of this "Fantasy Backroom" because it's similar to my story's "The World Beyond"

You didn't ask me?

It was my idea

 

[Basic_human]

This idea come to me from so many trope of magical beast having "magic stone" as a core that's why they are able to wield magic.

This also serve as neat starter reason how magic craft were developed. People have been copying nature since begining. So magic craft is art that copy beast and sorcerer magic stone and control it's application making it into useful object

 

[Madologist]

In the end we all concluded magic is a combination of math or computer code to executed and work.

It's like accelerator from Magical Index huh, it's neat that again... If you think about it it's a lot of math and code.

Maybe it's work like a prepared ammunition for them. Having to conjure and do the whole math is like trying to created artillery shot from the scratch on spot, while having it prepared beforehand give you the advantage.

You didn't ask me?

It was my idea

Math essentially is trying to understand and quantify how the universe works. Theoretically, you could one day come up with an all encompassing calculation that truly explains how and why the fundamental forces of the universe work.
"Technology so advanced that it is indistinguishable from magic", essentially.

So why not apply that to magic. Why not just treat magic as essentially the "base language" of universe. You skip the building of the tech that allows you to manipulate reality and outright tell reality to change due to understanding and being able to command it at will. Words of power, as they call it. Not a fresh concept, Le Guin already envisioned it in her Earth Sea series and of course Skyrim is a recentish entry too.
Of course were one to use such a system, there'd have to be limits to it. If it was all just "if you have the knowledge and the willpower you can do it" it would be hard to quantify who is powerful and who is not and characters could just ass-pull feats as demanded. I think a simple concept of first learning the true name and commands would be challenging, second you'd have to truly understand and comprehend the meaning of them and finally to actually be able to utter the phrases correctly.
Simple enough, but I can imagine you could make quite interesting wizardry out of it.

I've been thinking of a character that gets kinda cursed with this gift: they gain the ability to speak the base language, but that is also the only language they can speak. So any time they say something, well... bad things would happen. Essentially a Black Bolt, but instead of speaking too loud, the words themselves are the issue.

 

[undeed]

a

I think this still could work if the magic is something that engraved on the body of the user. I had this concept for sorcerer able use magic because they have a magic stone inside of them. This idea come to me from so many trope of magical beast having "magic stone" as a core that's why they are able to wield magic. This magic stone work kind like motherboard doing calculation and executing command that engraved. Then I thought "why doesn't spell caster have it?" That I think that one good reason to make people power are unique and different from each other by making that magic stone different from one person to another

You can also use explanation like each people have thing they good at, it's like engineering there are building, machinery and so on. Maybe even if the basic is same mathematical what they specialize is different

Absolutely,
As long as it still meets the general rules of the established world.
Which I think, what you're describing is still within the world I'm proposing

What I'm talking about is more of those "only I can xxx" novel titles tropes. Or that "I can only parry" stuffs.
Which I think is stupid.

 

[Cloverfieldo]

collection of short stories of scenarios in philosopher's analogies, like the train one, or of mathematical examples, the infinite hotel
story example: a story about how is working as a receptionist in an infinite hotel
story example 2: scientists who invented the first teleported, debating if their peer who just used it was the same person before he teleported
would work as a collection of short stories, or as a collection of manga oneshots

 

[Basic_human]

What I'm talking about is more of those "only I can xxx" novel titles tropes. Or that "I can only parry" stuffs.
Which I think is stupid.

Let's not bring that to this conversation please. We trying to do world building little by little, not making self insert story

WeIll.... I guess it's fine for self insert in story as long as you not glazing yourself up like many slopfest do. "I have death magic, your fiction is soloed by me"

bleh...

 

[Madologist]

Unique abilities got me thinking about stuff where they are done well, ie. learnt through rare training or secret knowledge and since we talked about FMA earlier, Mustang popped naturally into mind.
His alchemy is actually oxygen manipulation and not flames. Several times in the series the alchemists break down molecyles into their respective parts and so on.

So... what happens when an alchemist starts to think "but is atom truly smallest thing there is. Can I split it?"
and we get Nuclear Alchemy...

Continuing that thought, so many times there are all kinds of "my scientific knowledge makes me the supreme mage", but they never actually do anything that creative or fun with it. I wonder why?

The obvious end point of magical arms race are Spells of Mass Destruction, so how come fantasy limits itself to small arms or at atmost artillery levels usually? Not to mention so rarely do Anti-Mages exist in magical settings, specialists who exists to counter and take down enemy mages.

I am in despair!
The lack of proper arsenal of arcane warfare has left me in despair!

 

[Basic_human]

collection of short stories of scenarios in philosopher's analogies, like the train one, or of mathematical examples, the infinite hotel
story example: a story about how is working as a receptionist in an infinite hotel
story example 2: scientists who invented the first teleported, debating if their peer who just used it was the same person before he teleported
would work as a collection of short stories, or as a collection of manga oneshots

Call it "Hypothetical: Anthology"

It's could be a great way to teach people to think deeper.

Story 1: a son of viscount become the next family head, he want his territory to prosper. He look at it and found out a lot of his subject plant a lot of different type of wheat and barley. Some of the wheat have smaller yield by the meter square than the other, some are good against the drought, some taste worse than the other, some have tough outer shell making it hard for process. The viscount thought "this is a problem, our output aren't maximized. I propose we standardized out farming". So then the law passed and all the wheat were change into what the viscount thought the best. But it all backfire, the next harvest season a huge storm season wreck the field, there also locus, and blight to the farm. The viscount is confused why all this happen, then his subject reply "perhaps you should listen and learn why we do things our way".

The wheat with outer shell is tough but its prevent insect to ravage out field, the one with bad taste is resilient to disease, and the one with small yield have resilient in wet season. Sure the what my Lord choose drought resistant and yield many more but things didn't work because it remove variety.

This story im basing from Chesterton's fence. A lot of thing exists for a reason, don't destroy it if you don't know it's purpose. People need to see beyond it and seek meaning behind things

 

[Madologist]

collection of short stories of scenarios in philosopher's analogies, like the train one, or of mathematical examples, the infinite hotel
story example: a story about how is working as a receptionist in an infinite hotel
story example 2: scientists who invented the first teleported, debating if their peer who just used it was the same person before he teleported
would work as a collection of short stories, or as a collection of manga oneshots

A scientist, who may or may not be the original as all of his constituent atoms have been replaced due to teleportation appears at The Grand Hotel, which has infinite rooms, which all are however full, to warn them about a man that may redirect Sisyphus rolling a boulder into the hotel depending on if a cat inside a box is dead or alive.

Which came first, the lobby or the receptionist?

Let's not bring that to this conversation please. We trying to do world building little by little, not making self insert story

WeIll.... I guess it's fine for self insert in story as long as you not glazing yourself up like many slopfest do. "I have death magic, your fiction is soloed by me"

bleh...

To be fair, the instant death manga is a hilarious deconstruction.

 

[Basic_human]

Unique abilities got me thinking about stuff where they are done well, ie. learnt through rare training or secret knowledge and since we talked about FMA earlier, Mustang popped naturally into mind.
His alchemy is actually oxygen manipulation and not flames. Several times in the series the alchemists break down molecyles into their respective parts and so on.

So... what happens when an alchemist starts to think "but is atom truly smallest thing there is. Can I split it?"
and we get Nuclear Alchemy...

Continuing that thought, so many times there are all kinds of "my scientific knowledge makes me the supreme mage", but they never actually do anything that creative or fun with it. I wonder why?

The obvious end point of magical arms race are Spells of Mass Destruction, so how come fantasy limits itself to small arms or at atmost artillery levels usually? Not to mention so rarely do Anti-Mages exist in magical settings, specialists who exists to counter and take down enemy mages.

I am in despair!
The lack of proper arsenal of arcane warfare has left me in despair!

I think if we delved too far the magic lost its "magical" properties and become more and more of technology and less fun to explore with. Part of what magic fun is the suprise and unexpected outcome, if we become too technical

Well that's for me personally

 

[Madologist]

story example 2: scientists who invented the first teleported, debating if their peer who just used it was the same person before he teleported

They debate about it but can't reach an answer. So they make a hypothesis about an immaterial consciousness, a soul if you want.
To prove it they keep teleporting until copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy... ...of a copy happens to them, without a proper answer ever being settled.
Aesop: don't pursue an answer without a care.

I think if we delved too far the magic lost its "magical" properties and become more and more of technology and less fun to explore with. Part of what magic fun is the suprise and unexpected outcome, if we become too technical

Well that's for me personally

True, but sometimes it is fun to quantify a magic system. It is why I like WHF/40k, because their magic systems are explained like it was a scientific theory. Chaos while being chaotic is a known quantity and ironically predictable in its effects.

 

[Basic_human]

True, but sometimes it is fun to quantify a magic system. It is why I like WHF/40k, because their magic systems are explained like it was a scientific theory. Chaos while being chaotic is a known quantity and ironically predictable in its effects.

While this make thing less magical but it fit really well on military based world campaign. Like in the generic fantasy usually there is battle against demon army invading, I believe this is a nicely reasonable cause to make magic more technical and rigid cuz the pressure to do so.

The Demon war usually doesn't really shown the scale but if the author manage it right and able to potray it like World War that gonna be huge improvement in the story. Arm race of who's magic more destructive and faster to activate.

 

[Edo4169]

Damn, this world building is building. I can even see the world. The system is great, but what happens with the norma? I don't think they have the same value as our, because that's gonna be boring. And I hate that everything should be humanoid.