Genjitsushugi Yuusha no Oukoku Saikenki - Vol. 3 Ch. 14 - The Last Warning

[Leo80221]

Ugh, here comes the fucking civil war arc. He should've just went the dishonorable route and had the two of them assassinated so he can focus on finishing off the dumb ass kingdom that's attacking them instead of trying to save itself. He can kill all of the corrupt nobles shortly after too, finish the "single use" of tyranny he intended to use. I really hate war arcs in general, so many are just badly done.

 

[Clad95150]

@AbuHajaar : while it's true that someone can't do all by himself, it's faster to have only one person in power. This person must have confidants, advisors and other people to create a chain of command, but in the end, the other nods must all be under the power of the leader.
And it's what the MC is doing: he uses other peoples to help him and give him their expertise but he has the last word and he is the central nod.

And yes, the decision of the old King seems dumb. Maybe he has valid reasons that we will discover later but for the moment I don't see at all how explaining things would have not helped the situation.

@Acolytus : yes, I dislike the Machiavelli quotes. I don't really mind he use his teaching but it bothers me he keeps saying "as Machiavelli said". They don't know who machiavelli is, it'd be better to just say "someone in my world said". And yeah, not taking demagogy in consideration is wrong.

@Yautja : I think the reason the duke Carmine started the war is because he wants to test the MC's will and if he is satisfied (which I think he currently is) Carmine will help MC to be recognized as a king, to unite the lands faster and to eliminate the king of Amidiona.
Best case scenario: Amidiona attack with the two other dukes. Carmine lose (semi purposefully) after an epic battle and surrender. Vargas surrender (because of the clause they made this chapter). King Amidiona is forced to surrender (but my bet is he doesn't and got killed by Carmine). MC unify the 3 lands and Amidiona kingdom. The people see how MC treat the losers, see how life get better and accept MC as their new king.

 

[Yautja]

@Clad95150
That's an even stupider reason. Causing national instability for a test? Because the actual best case scenario ain't too good; MC deals with all this shit and the country comes out relatively unscathed and Duke Dumbass has now put the entire country at risk, weakened the unity and military might of the country, put a big fuckin target on their backs and nearly destroy it. Worst case scenario, the country gets burned to the fucking ground. No matter how you paint it, as things stand, this was a stupid fucking decision.

 

[Misticsan]

@tuatara1

It's clearly not intended as such, but everything about this situation feels like an argument for actual parliamentary democracy where all of their factions have proper representation.

Had the same idea. Actually, I can understand the dukes' reasoning about not wanting to give control of their armies to the king. In feudal terms, it works as a primitive separation of powers: no race has absolute control of the military, so no race can oppress the rest.

Of course, we know that our protagonist is just and fair, so he would never do something bad to his new subjects, right? But power checks exist in case things go wrong. Souma's quoting Machiavelli is even less useful when you think that tyrants can and have survived rebellions and assassination attempts just fine, and that claiming that "the people" will make sure a tyrant falls is less effective when said people may be divided by race and opposing interests. I'd like adequate representation and limits to any single authority in their case too.

On the other hand, I also understand Souma's position. If Crusader Kings II has taught me one thing, it's that dissatisfied nobles having big armies usually leads to the king losing his throne.

 

[gaigous]

Finally a Dragon Waifu I can get behind!!

 

[zilentworld]

Im actually quite glad with all the discussions on the duke as that is the same confusion i was having when i was reading this arc on the novels. Note: the king has a very very good reason for why he did the transfer to souma. But him staying silent is still one of things i cannot accept. And duke has a very good reason, albeit a very very stupid one, for what he is doing.

Also carla art is completely different, not artstyle, but character design itself

Below is not a spoiler but a hint for what is the king’s reason

Spoiler

reread the 1st chapter on the part where souma and the king are discussing things alone. There is a part with a bit of “discomfort” there that even souma himself acknowledge

 

[AbuHajaar]

@Clad95150 Except that is not what he is doing, he's:

1) Combining three distinct branches into one single unit. This goes far beyond joint operations or combined arms. There's reason why nations even with modern communication technology seperate out their armed forces into navy, air Force, ground and deterrent. It's a logistical nightmare in both material supply and human resources.
2) Prohibiting nobles from having private soldiers is nice, but he's stating this waaaay too early. This should be an eventual and most importantly UNSTATED goal, especially since he doesn't have the manpower to enforce it.
3) Revoking special privileges for the Dukes. Like the second point. YOU DON'T SAY THAT TO THEIR FACES. The Dukes will no shit rebel because this can in no way be interpreted as anything but hostility. Never mind the fact that you need the Dukes in the first place because they maintain the logistics for their forces, aka they're the only ones who know where everything is. You need their cooperation at that phase because they can make resources and units literally disappear.
4) Negotiating with them as a group. All this guy talks about is Machiavelli but he didn't even use basic divide and conquer strategy.

Again, he should have went for infiltration over foolhardy direct confrontation. He should have allowed them to keep their positions but DILUTED their power by installing additional loyalists under the guise of a military expansion. The loyalists can even work under the Dukes but secretly they'd report directly to the king.

Hell he hasn't even set up an intelligence agency yet has he?

 

[Kourgath223]

@AbuHajaar
1) Clearly I interpreted Souma saying

The army under the three dukes will be assimilated with the royal army to form a single army.*

differently than you, but to me it seems the nation would still have an army, navy, and air force like we do today, but they would be placed under a central chain of command that at the very top answers to the king, similar to most nations today including the US where all branches if you follow the chain of command would eventually lead to the president.
*I interpreted the last two uses of army here to imply military, but the word army was chosen because it just sounds better but maybe that just me.
Now Souma could have handled this better saying "I will still let you all lead your branches but you will answer directly to me" having lion dude be the equivalent to the Secretary of the Army, dragon dude being Secretary of the Air Force, and dragon lady being the Secretary of the Navy.

2) Saying

I'll prohibit nobles from having private soldiers, more than they actually need.

would imply they could still have private soldiers but would be limited to what is deemed necessary for whatever the private soldiers are allowed to take care of, this could range from maintaining law and order (ie able to serve as a police force) in the dukes domain to only being allowed to serve as bodyguards. The former would allow them to have more soldiers while the latter would result in a smaller group of private soldiers.

 

[XieShu]

can someone telll me which chapter are we in compared to novel ?
so i can read it pls

 

[AbuHajaar]

@Kourgath223 His point about revoking special privileges for the Dukes seems to imply that he is not considering them for ANY sort of power position, e.g. Chief of Naval Operations. He specifically calls out removing the right to organize an army (which is the job a chief of staffs in military would do) and the fact that he will treat the dukes like any other noble. This is a demotion no matter how you spin it.

His intent to remove the rights to organize an army make the latter part of the statement "I'll prohibit nobles from having private soldiers, more than they actually need" null and void. It seems to imply that the nobles "need" is equivalent to having NO soldiers. Again, as I have said, his movement to curtail the nobles and dukes powers are actually correct for the long term (in some sense), but his way of doing so is utterly retarded. You do not simply state it out loud. Nor do you expect them to give in without any concessions. You need to do this indirectly.

Imagine you are a duke. A person that controls the majority of the air force of a nation, and a minority race as well. All of a sudden the king does an announcement without you being present that a foreigner from outside of the dynasty is taking over as king. The former king then disappears from public view entirely. The foreigner instead of opening negotiations with existing power brokers, bypasses existing power structures unilaterally and appoints a bunch of unknown persons into his cabinet. The foreigner then comes to you and demands without concessions that you essentially resign from being Chief of Staff of the Air Force. He then goes on to specifically state that he is removing all powers your noble line has, including the right to organize military force. He then says that you shouldn't worry, he will command ALL the military power himself... and you can just dethrone him if he misuses it??

To any logical person, this would reek of a coup d'etat. It would reek of a foreign infiltration of the government - the king hasn't appeared once in public since the announcement, maybe his daughter has allied with a foreign nation and forced him out, keeping him under house arrest. Why would you hand over power without any concessions? How do you know he's not going to execute you and your family? How do you know this foreigner isn't going to betray the nation and turn it into a puppet state of a foreign government? How do you know this guy won't strip your ethnicity of citizenship and genocide them? Hell, if you hand over power and now need to dethrone him, how would you even do it now that he controls the absolute majority of military power? Who is even this guy, where did he come from, and what is his background, history, and qualifications?

 

[Vaqvbu1a]

I agree with @AbuHajaar, what's being proposed from a political point of view is just outright stupid. Never in the history, a king was able to take away the military power from the lords in a quick and non-bloody way. It either takes great amount of time and done at the height of the king's power (and not too much killing), or it's done by extreme force and killing a ton of lords. There's just no reason for any of the dukes, let alone any of the lesser nobles to not rebel and he's giving them every reason to do that.

I think people misunderstand what is a duke and a duchy. Like the map even shows in this chapter, a duchy is ruled by the duke as has its own borders and territories. The duke is the top, there's no one above them that controls the land (thus its people, military and wealth). This is why all historical and current kings and queens hold a title of duke(s) on top of king or queen. Because if you're only king, you have far too little power and is essentially weaker than a duke by yourself. A duke has the power to shift over their duchy to another kingdom or become completely independent. The dukes or other nobles don't need to go to war with Souma to retain their powers, all they need to do is pledge allegiance to a neighboring country. They could even just declare independence since Souma can't afford to waste army conquering the duchy. Then Souma would have lost territory under his kingdom, lost army that gets supplied by the lords and can't do anything since neighboring countries are already looking to invade.

The duke's army is funded by the duchy. You're telling the dukes to keep forking over payment for the army, but you no longer have control over anything. From the nobles point of view, not rebelling is the stupid choice. Souma has offered nothing positive from the deal.

Look at it from the duke's pov. You are a freaking duke, master of your domain, no one can tell you what to do in your lands and then this random guy comes along, gets declared king and says hand over all your lands, your army, everything. You are still duke in title, but all your powers as duke are gone and taken by the king. Who in the right mind would say yes?

The entire take on this issue by the author seems very naive or failing to understand the positions people are in.

 

[CucarachaEnojada]

So she cut her hair,which means no more ponytail....she is dead to me.

....and I'm not going to make jokes about the resemblance between those mother and her daughter.It's just too easy.

 

[Orcbolg1]

Castor is a little better here in manga or should i say light novel(source material) than the original web novel
the last time i remember when i read web novel he is more of a stupid man

 

[RainChaser]

@XieShu This manga chapter took on volume 2 chapter 3 of the light novel

 

[gaigous]

@Orcbolg1 Same, he was the typical idiot noble, in this, he makes good sense.

 

[Qelix]

Looks like MC has something waiting for Amidonia in his sleeve. Amidonia looked like a big bad guy, but in the end I believe, it aren't the dukes, that are being used by Amidonia. It is the other way around and Amidonia is only the sacrifice needed to reunite the kingdom.

The princess looks good with short hair, but still better with the long one.

"It's just too easy." I'm a easy going guy, so: Of course they are related. You see the family resemblance.

@gaigous Finally a Dragon Waifu I can get behind!!

If you try to come from the front, you'll only get bounced across the room one way. I know, this isn't how physics work, but look at her tits! (Yeah, you are already looking on them. It's hard to look somewhere else.) The laws of physics don't apply on them either.

@Yautja: That's an even stupider reason. Causing national instability for a test? Because the actual best case scenario ain't too good; MC deals with all this shit and the country comes out relatively unscathed and Duke Dumbass has now put the entire country at risk, weakened the unity and military might of the country, put a big fuckin target on their backs and nearly destroy it. Worst case scenario, the country gets burned to the fucking ground. No matter how you paint it, as things stand, this was a stupid fucking decision.

It is. It's so fucking stupid, but other "capable" characters did also stupid things in the manga, that have been accepted by every other character in that world. That's the way the author writes. I guess we have to accept, that he has a "valid" reason. But maybe the author plans to "out" it as stupid reason later, as Temp-King Souma called him stupid right there in the meeting, maybe because he already saw through his reasoning.

Regarding the military structure: I can't say, that I have a good understanding of this topic, but now I see the reason behind the one king and three dukes system. (The reasoning caught me buy surprise! It is sound!) I know the dukes rebelled and the MC has to deal with this, but they rebelled for stupid reasons! The dukes are at fault, not the system. It itself is fine. Removing it, will only destabilise the country on its fundamental level (the people) even further. Those dukes have to be removed any ways. Remove them and not the system. Not even for just this war. "In times of a crisis a strong leader shall be chosen to protect Rome and it's colonies." In the end this way of reasoning will be abused by some people as an excuse to establish a dictatorship. Even if our MC is just, this is something he should never do.

 

[ventisca]

All of this fuss is because the previous king didn't explain why he gave the throne to an unknown man.
Rather than make him a temporary king, just make him an advisor. If the king has trust enough to make him a king, just making him an advisor and listen to what he would say.

 

[CoolOtamegane]

IT'S MY PRIDE AS A WARRIOR

Facepalm.....

 

[Ainz]

Princess with short-hair is cute as hell.

 

[Dj0rel]

Well, this is why I find series that are trying to be smart so entertaining. Not only for the series itself but also for all of the know-it-alls in the comment sections who think they are smarter. ?