Hige wo Soru. Soshite Joshikousei wo Hirou. - Vol. 7 Ch. 33
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All these girls with ulterior motives calling Yoshida self-righteous just because he isn't trying to get in their pants. Give the man a break. He's a good dude.
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Yoshida "I don't take people's contact info because I'm not very social and know that people will just be disappointed"
Me: Fucking Relatable, Dude
Me: Fucking Relatable, Dude
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This man is literally Siri Keeton.
But fr though. Everyone calls him selfish, saying he's making decisions for others. But relationships are a two way street. Using your own agency always denies somebody else the use of their own agency, unless you both agree. If he's not comfortable having unprotected sex with Kanda, then he's not comfortable. If he's not comfortable giving his LINE info to somebody else, he's not comfortable.
Relationships can only move forward when all parties involved are comfortable with moving it forward. He has a right to feel the way he does. They see him trying to stay in his comfort zone as something he's forcing upon them. They're forced to put up with his decisions. Kanda especially seems to think that. She told him that if he really cared about her, he'd just have sex with her. But that's denying his desires. That's just not the sort of man he is. And that's fine.
Kanda had the right idea from the beginning - she left. If you're in a romantic relationship, and you're constantly frustrated by somebody, you don't attempt to fix them. That's the cardinal sin of romance. You move on. That's what almost all these women need to do, instead of haranguing him for being himself.
But let's not pretend he's blameless either. Our boy isn't in a healthy headspace. He shouldn't think so little of himself. He should have just accepted Mishima's contact info, because it's the polite and friendly thing to do. He is staying in his comfort zone - but that zone is always going to limit a person, and you don't grow it by staying in it. If he feels he's not a charming conversationalist and an uninteresting person, the solution isn't to run from social encounters. The solution is to be brave and participate in them, to learn how to be a human.
But fr though. Everyone calls him selfish, saying he's making decisions for others. But relationships are a two way street. Using your own agency always denies somebody else the use of their own agency, unless you both agree. If he's not comfortable having unprotected sex with Kanda, then he's not comfortable. If he's not comfortable giving his LINE info to somebody else, he's not comfortable.
Relationships can only move forward when all parties involved are comfortable with moving it forward. He has a right to feel the way he does. They see him trying to stay in his comfort zone as something he's forcing upon them. They're forced to put up with his decisions. Kanda especially seems to think that. She told him that if he really cared about her, he'd just have sex with her. But that's denying his desires. That's just not the sort of man he is. And that's fine.
Kanda had the right idea from the beginning - she left. If you're in a romantic relationship, and you're constantly frustrated by somebody, you don't attempt to fix them. That's the cardinal sin of romance. You move on. That's what almost all these women need to do, instead of haranguing him for being himself.
But let's not pretend he's blameless either. Our boy isn't in a healthy headspace. He shouldn't think so little of himself. He should have just accepted Mishima's contact info, because it's the polite and friendly thing to do. He is staying in his comfort zone - but that zone is always going to limit a person, and you don't grow it by staying in it. If he feels he's not a charming conversationalist and an uninteresting person, the solution isn't to run from social encounters. The solution is to be brave and participate in them, to learn how to be a human.
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Why would he want an actual yandere to have his contact details?
Just. Say. No.
Just. Say. No.
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I think the problem these people are having with him is that his reasoning isn't out of self-concern, but out of concern for them. When Kanda and Yoshida were dating, he wanted to wear a condom before sex, not because he's more comfortable wearing one than not wearing one, but because he wants to treasure Kanda's body. He's deciding for her that a condom would be better. I get it sounds messed up, because it's ultimately going on his penis, but his motivations are out of concern for her, when that's ultimately her call.
A better example is when Kanda offers to have sex with him after their reunion. He doesn't decline because he's not interested in sex with her (as far as we can tell, granted he doesn't outright confirm he is interested). He declines because she should treasure her body more. It's patronising. Another example is when he refuses to have sex with Sayu. He confirms that he is aroused when she goes out of her way to present herself sexually to him, but still he doesn't want to have sex with her, because he believes he'd be doing her a disservice.
Yoshida doesn't take his own desires into account when it comes to intimacy, he merely decides that others have made a mistake if they want to get intimate with him. I like how this chapter offers us another angle at this, which is that he has low self-esteem, as you mentioned.
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You're totally right. But that conflict is what I meant when I said that "using your own agency always denies somebody else the use of their own agency, unless you both agree."
Your point about how Yoshida doesn't take his own desires into account is very astute and accurate, and you clearly grasp why they're upset with him. However, I feel it's still missing an important part of the picture- in that the desire to protect them is also his desire. Humans are complicated, and his desire to protect those around him and keep them from harm is also real - and evidently more important to him than his desire for sex. I don't think it's entirely fair to resent him for being who he is. If he has bad chemistry with lovers like Kanda, he has bad chemistry - but that's not necessarily a personal failing. I think it's being presented that way in a narrative sense, but at least for now, I disagree with that message.
Let's take a more extreme example, just for illustrative purposes. If my girlfriend told me that she wanted me to beat the shit out of her during sex, I really wouldn't be comfortable with that. I may be a top, and I may even be a bit of a sadist, but I could never fathom actually hurting the person I love. There may be a dark part of me which could find joy in that - after all, many humans do find joy in extreme BDSM, and I too am human. Surely I have the capacity to enjoy hurting someone who wants to be hurt. But I'm not comfortable feeding or nurturing that part of me. I've had to use violence before, and I never want to turn that force against someone I love.
Yoshida's dilemmas are, admittedly, much less extreme. But the point is that we all have boundaries, and his boundaries are his to draw. Resenting him for that is unkind. It's okay to be uncomfortable with casual sex. It's okay to be uncomfortable with taking advantage of a highschooler. It's okay to be uncomfortable with raw sex if you're not married or trying for kids. What's important is that you and your partner have an understanding of each other's boundaries. Yoshida's problem is that he and Kanda never came to that understanding.
I know that may sound contrary to what I posted before, but I don't feel it is. We should strive to grow beyond boundaries that we ourselves feel hold us back, and we can only do it at our own pace. Some boundaries are flexible. Some are not. And if they're going to change, they're going to change at the pace we're comfortable with. I think Yoshida would benefit more from encouragement and help, as opposed the haranguing that he's gotten. He's obviously a gentle and sensitive guy. Chastising him is only going to feed his feelings of inadequacy.
That's just me though. I appreciate that the story is emotionally complex enough to spark these sorts of serious conversations about the nature of relationships.
Edit: Put more simply, the decision he made "for Kanda" was in truth made for his own conscience, and is a product of his own nature. Whether he feels that boundary needs to change for the sake of his relationship, or whether he feels they were simply a poor match, is up to him. His decisions should be respected, rather than resented, and he ought to do the same for others. As should we all.
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This, all this. This encapsulates my thoughts perfectly.
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shes clearly a walking red flag, raising her voice at everything shes upset about, everything up until now isnt even her problems, and she was clearly manipulating him a few chapters before saying that he doesnt really like gotou
When you say say people shouldn't push themselves on others, that's partly fine, but the main problem is when information/knowledge/awareness isn't there 100% for everyone.
In this case, Yoshida simply doesn't understand people around him (or himself, quite often). In such a situation, Mishima's open way of communicating is far better than what the others are doing.
Of course people's traumas will sabotage communication, too, and it seems that among manga readers, this is often accepted, but for some reason, it seems these personality/genetically/whatever based issues are regarded as just facts of life, and apparently that is seen as a reason not to try overcoming them.
I can tell you it's quite possible to use your brains, and perseverance to understand at least some things that aren't parsed automatically/naturally by e.g. me.
So both Kanda and Gotou should simply not be in the game/race at all, since they continue using their flawed communication methods, treating Yoshida as though he should understand the codes they use.
Put differently - if someone doesn't understand the language you are comfortable with (actually hiding behind, if you ask me), and you actually are able to speak the language of that person, why aren't you using that other person's language???!!!
Well. Obviously here it fits the author's purposes ... ;p
I actually think Mishima is the female who tries to communicate the clearest with Yoshida.
(Sayu is a different case, of course. As long as she doesn't tell Yoshida more about herself, nothing can happen, really.)
The others are either trying to manipulate others, or hide behind seeming communication.
Another reading is that (like he says, actually) he didn't want to start a family yet, based on his world view (when he was with Kanda). In that case, the thing does not become her call at all. Of course, if she wants to take the risk/wants to have a baby/doesn't mind using abortion as prevention (insane; there are risks, both immediate, and for future ability to have children ...), then she can talk to him about that, but unilaterally deciding to not use a condom is disrespectful.
Also, when she wants to have sex when they work together, I don't read that as being out of some respect for her body. Rather, he doesn't want to have sex with someone he isn't committed to. I can totally respect that.
His choice. If he thought differently, say that it's fine to have sex just for the pleasure, without taking feelings into account, that would be fine, too, but that's not how he presents himself. He wants to be invested in the person he has sex with. Basically, if he is going to be that close to someone, he really wants to be close to that person emotionally, too.
As for being aroused - that's a whole different thing.
And of course, there may also be esteem issues, but I think most of it stems from him not being all that good at decoding other people's signals.
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