Honzuki no Gekokujou ~Shisho ni Naru Tame ni wa Shudan wo Erandeiraremasen~ Dai 2-bu 「Hon no Tamenara Miko ni Naru!」 - Vol. 2 Ch. 9 - A Secret Discus…
- Thread starter MangaDex
- Start date
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2019
- Messages
- 61
For people getting upset about 'child labour' and 'capitalism', child labour isn't some shocking development here, that's just another name for the trade apprenticeships that Lutz and Tuli are also doing.
Also, a reminder from the previous chapter: Children (both highborn and lowborn) of this world are not considered people until their baptism on their 6th or 7th birthday. Up until that point they are basically considered worse than livestock with no rights whatsoever, not even the right to food (that's why the food that is given to them are called 'gifts' or 'grace' and only available in the form of leftovers.) They actually aren't even supposed to be given any sort of work or purpose.
Even after they become baptised, orphans are basically consigned to a life of grey robes where more often than not, they become subject to what amounts to abuse and prostitution to satisfy the lusts of the blue robes and their guests. They're barely educated unless their blue robed master requires them to be.
This is pretty much the only fate available to them when they have no life skills, or access to proper food and education.
The Church is also heavily in debt because of the corrupt practices of the Temple Head (old white guy) and the other blue robed priests who are basically of the nobility meaning there's no way that Myne or Chief Priest Ferdinand can divert any sort of income to improving the orphanage's situation.
What Myne has done seems extremely sketchy if you're reading this completely blind to the period or the setting (in which case, how did you even make it this far into the story?). Taking into context the circumstances, what she has done now is give the children an opportunity to learn a trade AND survival skills,
and gives them a sense of purpose and esteem that they otherwise would never have.
Also, a reminder from the previous chapter: Children (both highborn and lowborn) of this world are not considered people until their baptism on their 6th or 7th birthday. Up until that point they are basically considered worse than livestock with no rights whatsoever, not even the right to food (that's why the food that is given to them are called 'gifts' or 'grace' and only available in the form of leftovers.) They actually aren't even supposed to be given any sort of work or purpose.
Even after they become baptised, orphans are basically consigned to a life of grey robes where more often than not, they become subject to what amounts to abuse and prostitution to satisfy the lusts of the blue robes and their guests. They're barely educated unless their blue robed master requires them to be.
This is pretty much the only fate available to them when they have no life skills, or access to proper food and education.
The Church is also heavily in debt because of the corrupt practices of the Temple Head (old white guy) and the other blue robed priests who are basically of the nobility meaning there's no way that Myne or Chief Priest Ferdinand can divert any sort of income to improving the orphanage's situation.
What Myne has done seems extremely sketchy if you're reading this completely blind to the period or the setting (in which case, how did you even make it this far into the story?). Taking into context the circumstances, what she has done now is give the children an opportunity to learn a trade AND survival skills,
eventually she also educates them as well
Supporter
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2020
- Messages
- 524
Thank you for the chapter
Double-page supporter
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2020
- Messages
- 733
I don't know if I would call it child labor since it's neither illegal nor inhumane, I would more likely call it an improvement towards those orphans' living conditions. Sure they're going to be working, but they'll be properly paid and will be taught how to live for themselves.
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2018
- Messages
- 4,465
@SkyFantasy333 : Uhh, some corrections there, gonna put it in spoiler just in case
@smartz118 : Yeah, I'm sure children can just magically become skilled at a job they apply for without spending time learning the trade as apprentice (either to their parent pre-baptism or to a workshop post-baptism), even more so in a world without school or any form of universal education.
@Chrona : To be fair, it got this bad only recently due to some other events massively reducing the temple's income.
By the time Gil had his baptism, the situation was still fine, that's why he thought it'd be ok to take Myne through there.
By the time Delia had her baptism, it's bad enough to leave the girl with trauma.
In no particular order:
1. The temple is not in debt, it's simply earning very little compare to the state of things before the coup that made many blue priests left the temple for one reason or another.
Heck much of the 'earnings' are donations/tithe, meaning there's no expectation of monetary repayment anyway...or rather the people bribing them want something other than money in repayment.
2. The 'leftovers' are still large amount of food, since blue priests ARE expected to make more food than they can eat because it's passed down the line. When Myne make the first pizza she ate only a few slices of the whole thing and pass the rest over to her attendants (her passing it down while it's still warm is just her thing though)
Also it's shared with the whole orphanage including the adults.
The whole 'share evenly' also sort of apply to the blues as well, with the donations split evenly among them (Myne getting back a portion of her own donation because she is still one)
3. They already do get educated because the greys are expected to become noble attendants meaning they need to be presentable to nobles to be selected, Myne's learning tools simply make it easier and fun (and also a trial run for her to see how effective they are)
You might be mixing them up with orphans outside the temple which are treated very differently.
1. The temple is not in debt, it's simply earning very little compare to the state of things before the coup that made many blue priests left the temple for one reason or another.
Heck much of the 'earnings' are donations/tithe, meaning there's no expectation of monetary repayment anyway...or rather the people bribing them want something other than money in repayment.
2. The 'leftovers' are still large amount of food, since blue priests ARE expected to make more food than they can eat because it's passed down the line. When Myne make the first pizza she ate only a few slices of the whole thing and pass the rest over to her attendants (her passing it down while it's still warm is just her thing though)
Also it's shared with the whole orphanage including the adults.
The whole 'share evenly' also sort of apply to the blues as well, with the donations split evenly among them (Myne getting back a portion of her own donation because she is still one)
3. They already do get educated because the greys are expected to become noble attendants meaning they need to be presentable to nobles to be selected, Myne's learning tools simply make it easier and fun (and also a trial run for her to see how effective they are)
You might be mixing them up with orphans outside the temple which are treated very differently.
@smartz118 : Yeah, I'm sure children can just magically become skilled at a job they apply for without spending time learning the trade as apprentice (either to their parent pre-baptism or to a workshop post-baptism), even more so in a world without school or any form of universal education.
@Chrona : To be fair, it got this bad only recently due to some other events massively reducing the temple's income.
By the time Gil had his baptism, the situation was still fine, that's why he thought it'd be ok to take Myne through there.
By the time Delia had her baptism, it's bad enough to leave the girl with trauma.
- Joined
- Sep 27, 2019
- Messages
- 24
People taking the hard ground of "child labor" don't seem to remember the beginning of this series; when all the children go out into the woods collecting firewood, making stitch-work, etc. This is a very common notion in this period of time/setting and while it's obviously not the most high-moral solution it is better than *the literal starvation and death of children.* When their society is more advanced, and can start thinking beyond just day-to-day survival for over 90% of people, then you start to see an "Enlightenment" period blossom where the focus turns towards education and the endowment of basic human rights. If you wanted Myne to go "oh no I'll just reform society with the snap of my fingers" like 80% of other Isekai protagonists then i'm glad you're disappointed. That's not what this series has been about since the beginning.
@FatedMusic
If the human rights are basic why can't they work in every time period human's dwell in? Doesn't really sound universal to me.
Is it though? I'm pretty sure if you asked most people nowadays death is preferred over slavery.
@WhimsiCat
If the human rights are basic why can't they work in every time period human's dwell in? Doesn't really sound universal to me.
Is it though? I'm pretty sure if you asked most people nowadays death is preferred over slavery.
@WhimsiCat
This seems to be an incredibly rich city and a central hub for local affairs. I doubt conditions are any better in other poorer parts of the country. If I were to logically assume that the entire country is not one city, I highly doubt orphans conditions anywhere else are even close to as good. Hell, infanticide is probably common even in the capital.
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2020
- Messages
- 3,252
People be aware they went from starving to working for proper food and it’s relativity safe work its not like their doing mica mining in Africa.
Fed-Kun's army
- Joined
- May 11, 2018
- Messages
- 226
the performative answers people give when asked a hypothetical question is obviously not going to be the same as the answers starving children give when they have literally no concept of good living conditions 🙂🙃🙂
if they prefer death to being able to eat in exchange for doing a similar level of labor to the rest of the children in the city, then the problem is their mental health because realistically speaking no one fucking makes that choice. regardless, if they do prefer death, well that isnt hard for them to personally achieve without killing everyone else there too.
if they prefer death to being able to eat in exchange for doing a similar level of labor to the rest of the children in the city, then the problem is their mental health because realistically speaking no one fucking makes that choice. regardless, if they do prefer death, well that isnt hard for them to personally achieve without killing everyone else there too.
Member
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2018
- Messages
- 213
@Chrona
As for people nowadays, we're a bit like Apicius saying he'd rather die than eat bad food - people don't take kindly to have their living standards lowered, but that isn't what happens here.
"Basic" doesn't necessarily means "universal", it means you need that right in order to have other rights.
It is better because the right to liberty is meaningless if you don't have also the right to live. And Myne is providing them the later.
As for people nowadays, we're a bit like Apicius saying he'd rather die than eat bad food - people don't take kindly to have their living standards lowered, but that isn't what happens here.
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2018
- Messages
- 95
I see much people complaining about child labor but, although it is abhorrent to us nowadays and in our most spread societies, the idea of child labor that comes to our mind are mainly based on industrial era's conditions with children working 16h per day in factories and such. On a extractivist society like theirs it's about to impossible to rely on the adults to fully supply the children, and albeit it still being tiring, foraging is way less hard than fieldwork and other more physical labor and still leave some free time for the children. I'm not saying it's right, but we cant judge the situation with modern era standards, as the other option is starvation.
In a way even the higher classes all the way to the nobles end relying on children as assets for diplomacy (such as arranged marriages and as church priests) and things like that, the strict education for those can somewhat be considered akin to child labor as it takes much of their time and freedom, but obviously can't be compared to the lower classes level.
Depending on where you live you may not be that distant to those things as you think. Most of my family were farmers until around my grandparents, so my mother and her siblings used to work from rise till dawn on the fields, cattle, flour mill and with sugarcane derivatives. They attended school, although had to walk about 15km to get to school (and those are some f*cked-up hills even being asphalted nowadays) so it was still not the worse situation (my alcoholic, ill spirited grandpa didn't help too). Although my father got to intern school still young, his family was about the same (except for the shitty father).
In a way even the higher classes all the way to the nobles end relying on children as assets for diplomacy (such as arranged marriages and as church priests) and things like that, the strict education for those can somewhat be considered akin to child labor as it takes much of their time and freedom, but obviously can't be compared to the lower classes level.
Depending on where you live you may not be that distant to those things as you think. Most of my family were farmers until around my grandparents, so my mother and her siblings used to work from rise till dawn on the fields, cattle, flour mill and with sugarcane derivatives. They attended school, although had to walk about 15km to get to school (and those are some f*cked-up hills even being asphalted nowadays) so it was still not the worse situation (my alcoholic, ill spirited grandpa didn't help too). Although my father got to intern school still young, his family was about the same (except for the shitty father).
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2020
- Messages
- 140
Thank you for the chapter!!
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2018
- Messages
- 4,465
@Chrona : Well, spoilers because ofc
@mickhail : Actually...(some later spoilers though I don't think it's a major one)
First of all, the temple is very much its own little garden, how well the town is doing is unlikely to affect the temple whatsoever.
Second, Ehrenfest is actually one of the lowest ranking territory in the whole country, so while this city being its 'capital' seem to be doing well and prospering, they're nowhere near as close to those up tops (to give an example, all the high rank territories have installed magical waste disposal system throughout their cities, while Ehrenfest only have it for noble district and not even the temple)
Heck the only reason the high rank territories even had any eyes on Ehrenfest at all is because of Ferdinand (Head Priest)'s excellent results during his time at the noble school.
This sudden decline in QoL is mainly due to the sudden drop in nobles after the civil war/coup.
The nobles pull out some blue priests from the temple to fill out the mana pool from the dead nobles, then the capital's temple need to pull priests from all the territories to fill up its missing blue priests...
As for the other parts of the country...well, they don't have temples there so the impact to them range from nothing (if they didn't get blue priest visits to begin with) to just less yields from farms...
And in those farming villages, orphans are raised as community's property to either be sold for income (usually the pretty girls to nobles, because no education given here unlike the temple), or eventual extra workforce, so for them at least there's incentive to keep orphans alive.
So depending on how you want to view it, orphans outside the temple can be considered to have better life right now (obviously after Myne do her thing, hers will have better life no question)
That's one of the reasons I think Bookworm is very good. These are things that are happening/already happened in the background and we only slowly learn of them as Myne's world expand and she learn about them, but then we look back and can see 'oh yeah, it was there, we just didn't know about it'
Second, Ehrenfest is actually one of the lowest ranking territory in the whole country, so while this city being its 'capital' seem to be doing well and prospering, they're nowhere near as close to those up tops (to give an example, all the high rank territories have installed magical waste disposal system throughout their cities, while Ehrenfest only have it for noble district and not even the temple)
Heck the only reason the high rank territories even had any eyes on Ehrenfest at all is because of Ferdinand (Head Priest)'s excellent results during his time at the noble school.
This sudden decline in QoL is mainly due to the sudden drop in nobles after the civil war/coup.
The nobles pull out some blue priests from the temple to fill out the mana pool from the dead nobles, then the capital's temple need to pull priests from all the territories to fill up its missing blue priests...
As for the other parts of the country...well, they don't have temples there so the impact to them range from nothing (if they didn't get blue priest visits to begin with) to just less yields from farms...
And in those farming villages, orphans are raised as community's property to either be sold for income (usually the pretty girls to nobles, because no education given here unlike the temple), or eventual extra workforce, so for them at least there's incentive to keep orphans alive.
So depending on how you want to view it, orphans outside the temple can be considered to have better life right now (obviously after Myne do her thing, hers will have better life no question)
That's one of the reasons I think Bookworm is very good. These are things that are happening/already happened in the background and we only slowly learn of them as Myne's world expand and she learn about them, but then we look back and can see 'oh yeah, it was there, we just didn't know about it'
@mickhail : Actually...(some later spoilers though I don't think it's a major one)
The children 'working' is also how they learn the trades from their parents and so when they come of age they can actually work well enough to be hired.
In fact the parents' reputation/connection is how most people expect to get job in this society where there's no such thing as linkedin page to look people up.
It's also why Lutz's dream of being a merchant was seen as unrealistic. He didn't know how to read/write/calculate, his parents couldn't teach him nor use their connections to get him any job related to that. etc
>In a way even the higher classes all the way to the nobles end relying on children as assets for diplomacy (such as arranged marriages and as church priests) and things like that, the strict education for those can somewhat be considered akin to child labor as it takes much of their time and freedom, but obviously can't be compared to the lower classes level.
One of the biggest 'job' for noble children is to accumulate magic stones filled with their mana that is to be used for their classes at school when they're of age.
And going to noble school and graduating from it come with benefit of boosted mana pool.
But since getting the magic tool + all the stones is very expensive and the boost is essentially a multiplier (effect varies per person) to their mana pool, children that the parents can't afford the tool + stone or have too little mana to be worth sending to school are sent to the temple.
The arranged marriage thing is still true tho, but with more emphasis on internal ones because a person marrying out = one less noble for the territory, and even more so if that person is someone with high mana pool or other values *coughMynecough*
In fact the parents' reputation/connection is how most people expect to get job in this society where there's no such thing as linkedin page to look people up.
It's also why Lutz's dream of being a merchant was seen as unrealistic. He didn't know how to read/write/calculate, his parents couldn't teach him nor use their connections to get him any job related to that. etc
>In a way even the higher classes all the way to the nobles end relying on children as assets for diplomacy (such as arranged marriages and as church priests) and things like that, the strict education for those can somewhat be considered akin to child labor as it takes much of their time and freedom, but obviously can't be compared to the lower classes level.
One of the biggest 'job' for noble children is to accumulate magic stones filled with their mana that is to be used for their classes at school when they're of age.
And going to noble school and graduating from it come with benefit of boosted mana pool.
But since getting the magic tool + all the stones is very expensive and the boost is essentially a multiplier (effect varies per person) to their mana pool, children that the parents can't afford the tool + stone or have too little mana to be worth sending to school are sent to the temple.
The arranged marriage thing is still true tho, but with more emphasis on internal ones because a person marrying out = one less noble for the territory, and even more so if that person is someone with high mana pool or other values *coughMynecough*
I don't think Myne is giving them the right to live unless you're considering her a governmental body. I believe she is giving them a means with which to live, but those are two fundamentally different things. Being a bandit is a means for survival, I don't believe anyone has a "right" to be a bandit.
Then it would seem most "human rights" are luxuries rather than anything universal.
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2019
- Messages
- 37
naysayers in this comment section (thankfully not all of you)
Look at all these kids working without pay! *silence*
look at these few kids dying of starvation and swimming in filth! let's give them work and pay them and feed them and clean them and care for them! << OMFG THAT'S CHILD LABOR, WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU REEEEEEE
Yeah no, let's just leave them in the filth and starvation and lament that Myne simply can't feed and care for all of them on her own. Guys, this world is not nice, OUR WORLD, is not that nice. If you want to complain about child labor problems, go look at the bullshit that companies like nestle pull and fix those before being angry at a fictional story. In case you don't know, Nestle is using basically slavery in africa, including child labor, to gather and bottle water to sell to you. WATER. Ignore the inhumane mica mine, these guys are using slavery to SELL you water. Think they get paid? If they're lucky, probably pennies at most.
Myne is doing a FAR better job at taking care of children suffering and dying than I bet most of you have. I certainly can't say I have, I don't volunteer for much. Myne simply picked the best option she had available to her, get the kids fed, find a way for them to actually make an income of any kind, and better their living situation as best she can while making it acceptable to the absolutely horrid personalities that have power over her choices.
Look at all these kids working without pay! *silence*
look at these few kids dying of starvation and swimming in filth! let's give them work and pay them and feed them and clean them and care for them! << OMFG THAT'S CHILD LABOR, WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU REEEEEEE
Yeah no, let's just leave them in the filth and starvation and lament that Myne simply can't feed and care for all of them on her own. Guys, this world is not nice, OUR WORLD, is not that nice. If you want to complain about child labor problems, go look at the bullshit that companies like nestle pull and fix those before being angry at a fictional story. In case you don't know, Nestle is using basically slavery in africa, including child labor, to gather and bottle water to sell to you. WATER. Ignore the inhumane mica mine, these guys are using slavery to SELL you water. Think they get paid? If they're lucky, probably pennies at most.
Myne is doing a FAR better job at taking care of children suffering and dying than I bet most of you have. I certainly can't say I have, I don't volunteer for much. Myne simply picked the best option she had available to her, get the kids fed, find a way for them to actually make an income of any kind, and better their living situation as best she can while making it acceptable to the absolutely horrid personalities that have power over her choices.
Similar threads
