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What's with the girl (forget her name) expression in the last pages?
Honzuki no Gekokujou ~Shisho ni Naru Tame ni wa Shudan wo Erandeiraremasen~ Dai 2-bu 「Hon no Tamenara Miko ni Naru!」 - Vol. 2 Ch. 9 - A Secret Discus…
- Thread starter MangaDex
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@musicfreak12
This is speculation, but it was stated she was traumatized from being in the orphanage, but not how she survived. I'm guessing she fought the other orphans for food/let one of her friends die and that's why she's making that guilty face when thinking about facing any of the orphans.
This is speculation, but it was stated she was traumatized from being in the orphanage, but not how she survived. I'm guessing she fought the other orphans for food/let one of her friends die and that's why she's making that guilty face when thinking about facing any of the orphans.
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@Chrona On your first comment, where you said "Glad to see the author doesn't avoid the fact that even such conditions were a step up from feudalism."
Her solution in this particular situation was probably about the best she could do. And spending time foraging in the woods is certainly better than being trapped in a filthy place, starving. Even in terms of "liberty"--they don't have that now, they're basically in prison, not allowed to leave their orphanage. And as many people said, some degree of child labour is hardly an innovation in this setting.
But! That's not something that generalizes to the real-world history of industrialization. Industrial revolution child labour (and for that matter adult labour) most certainly was not a step up from feudalism. The hours were much longer, the nutrition and housing worse, the death rate far higher, the work itself worse in almost every way. Life expectancy went way down. Until trade unions and things like the Chartist movement started forming, industrial labour was a long step down from peasant status, let alone apprenticeship and later journeyman status in a craft guild. In the very early days, the big problem was trying to get anyone to work for wages when they could instead be small farmers or independent craftspeople. But it was around that time that various "enclosure" laws were passed, which kicked peasants off of all or part of their lands, took away the "commons" which everyone would graze their livestock on and such, and made foraging and hunting on public land illegal. Basically, they chucked lots of the peasants off their farms, leaving them nowhere to go and nothing to do to avoid starving, leaving them no choice but to start working for the new class of workshop/factory owners for wages. And those owners used the fact that these dispossessed peasants had no choice ruthlessly, leading to depths of poverty the world had rarely seen. Also a whole lot of productivity, but let's not pretend it was an improvement for most people--it wasn't, and it wasn't meant to be. For it to become that way, lots of people had to unite and struggle to take some of the proceeds.
Her solution in this particular situation was probably about the best she could do. And spending time foraging in the woods is certainly better than being trapped in a filthy place, starving. Even in terms of "liberty"--they don't have that now, they're basically in prison, not allowed to leave their orphanage. And as many people said, some degree of child labour is hardly an innovation in this setting.
But! That's not something that generalizes to the real-world history of industrialization. Industrial revolution child labour (and for that matter adult labour) most certainly was not a step up from feudalism. The hours were much longer, the nutrition and housing worse, the death rate far higher, the work itself worse in almost every way. Life expectancy went way down. Until trade unions and things like the Chartist movement started forming, industrial labour was a long step down from peasant status, let alone apprenticeship and later journeyman status in a craft guild. In the very early days, the big problem was trying to get anyone to work for wages when they could instead be small farmers or independent craftspeople. But it was around that time that various "enclosure" laws were passed, which kicked peasants off of all or part of their lands, took away the "commons" which everyone would graze their livestock on and such, and made foraging and hunting on public land illegal. Basically, they chucked lots of the peasants off their farms, leaving them nowhere to go and nothing to do to avoid starving, leaving them no choice but to start working for the new class of workshop/factory owners for wages. And those owners used the fact that these dispossessed peasants had no choice ruthlessly, leading to depths of poverty the world had rarely seen. Also a whole lot of productivity, but let's not pretend it was an improvement for most people--it wasn't, and it wasn't meant to be. For it to become that way, lots of people had to unite and struggle to take some of the proceeds.
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@WhimsiCat
Good points and corrections, however...
Good points and corrections, however...
1. The Temple's finances even if not actually in the red, are basically at the mercy of the Temple Head's greed. If your company normally earns 10 million in profits per annum and because of a crisis, is now only earning 5 million, you're still going to be paid peanuts or just flat out get tossed out on the street if the boss he's not going to take a pay cut to reflect the loss in company income. Likewise, parts of the Temple (ie the orphanage) are functionally in debt because what the Temple *is* receiving is being pocketed by the Temple Head (and trickled down to his cronies) with little restraint. That's why Ferdinand is very happy that the orphanage's newfound income is independent of the Temple.
2. Leftovers are still leftovers. My point with the leftovers that the food that is/was being bestowed to the children (and the grey robes) is completely contingent on the blue-robes actually having food prepared in the first place.
And this is most keenly felt during the winter months and the times when the blue robes have to leave the city for rituals and the food basically trickles to a near starvation situation. Before Myne started organising foraging parties and buying food for the orphanage, they had no other source of sustenance and no options.
3. Yes the church orphans do get to learn to read and write etc because of their future appointments as attendants, but what they learn is also incredibly limited. Take Myne's attendants, for example. By most standards Wilma, Rosina and Fran are highly educated, well-versed in the arts and even nuances of aristocratic politics, but their level of education will only carry them so far as being temple attendants. Fran is a fish out of water once he leaves the temple, Wilma is a brilliant artist but she cannot envision anything beyond her religious indoctrinated learning.
They have very absolutely no street/survival skills. This is one of the many problems that Ferdinand brings up when Myne wants to use grey-robes as serving staff at the restaurant: The grey robes cannot function outside of the temple's carefully cloistered social construct.
Honestly the word 'education' is probably very loose for what the grey-robes receive, it's more like a functional programming. Myne obviously wants to do more, but she's stymied by the limitations of not just technology but the functional capabilities of her helpers as well. Like everything else, she's having to take baby steps to get to where she wants to be.
2. Leftovers are still leftovers. My point with the leftovers that the food that is/was being bestowed to the children (and the grey robes) is completely contingent on the blue-robes actually having food prepared in the first place.
And this is most keenly felt during the winter months and the times when the blue robes have to leave the city for rituals and the food basically trickles to a near starvation situation. Before Myne started organising foraging parties and buying food for the orphanage, they had no other source of sustenance and no options.
3. Yes the church orphans do get to learn to read and write etc because of their future appointments as attendants, but what they learn is also incredibly limited. Take Myne's attendants, for example. By most standards Wilma, Rosina and Fran are highly educated, well-versed in the arts and even nuances of aristocratic politics, but their level of education will only carry them so far as being temple attendants. Fran is a fish out of water once he leaves the temple, Wilma is a brilliant artist but she cannot envision anything beyond her religious indoctrinated learning.
They have very absolutely no street/survival skills. This is one of the many problems that Ferdinand brings up when Myne wants to use grey-robes as serving staff at the restaurant: The grey robes cannot function outside of the temple's carefully cloistered social construct.
Honestly the word 'education' is probably very loose for what the grey-robes receive, it's more like a functional programming. Myne obviously wants to do more, but she's stymied by the limitations of not just technology but the functional capabilities of her helpers as well. Like everything else, she's having to take baby steps to get to where she wants to be.
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@SkyFantasy333
1. The question of how much Temple Head's actions affect the finance aside since that's never really shown and the way I understand it most of his 'extra' income are from bribes rather than debt.
The reduced crop yield from less mana being available definitely impact the priests' pocket though, since it's mentioned that they receive part of the harvest as tithe (so during the planning, who get sent to where is a clear sign of who's favored and who's hated)
His...relieve is probably more of a 'good job' at her having a proper measure in place to protect her papers from being usurped by other nobles.
2. For nobles, reputation can be much more valuable than coins, so trying to be stingy with food would easily come back to bite them. If any of them plan to cut down on finance, they'd reduce the amount of attendants rather than the sort of food being made.
Also, to my knowledge the longest a blue priest leave the temple is actually during the harvest festival (since it includes checking on the tax, whereas for spring festival you fill up the goblets and move on), since in winter they don't leave the city itself, but simply go up to the noble district for those ceremonies in one day before coming back.
3. Why do you assume street/survival skill (in the wild) is a must? Considering they can read, write, calculate they can easily work for merchants or store clerk. Even Otto being a gate guard is treated better BECAUSE he can do those.
Or, y'know, just go work under a noble, they've been educated that way after all.
Or even if we assume they get thrown out to the street, what's preventing them from learning how to live in the new environment?
We do get to see a priest willing to leave the temple to marry a commoner girl at one point, Myne even give the two a warning on how their common sense might differs, but the two still chose to be together and considering Myne never receive a complaint since, it's likely the case that he adapt to the new environment fine.
Or since you bring up Fran, if you haven't noticed he's been slowly adapting to how to act outside the temple.
The reduced crop yield from less mana being available definitely impact the priests' pocket though, since it's mentioned that they receive part of the harvest as tithe (so during the planning, who get sent to where is a clear sign of who's favored and who's hated)
His...relieve is probably more of a 'good job' at her having a proper measure in place to protect her papers from being usurped by other nobles.
2. For nobles, reputation can be much more valuable than coins, so trying to be stingy with food would easily come back to bite them. If any of them plan to cut down on finance, they'd reduce the amount of attendants rather than the sort of food being made.
Also, to my knowledge the longest a blue priest leave the temple is actually during the harvest festival (since it includes checking on the tax, whereas for spring festival you fill up the goblets and move on), since in winter they don't leave the city itself, but simply go up to the noble district for those ceremonies in one day before coming back.
3. Why do you assume street/survival skill (in the wild) is a must? Considering they can read, write, calculate they can easily work for merchants or store clerk. Even Otto being a gate guard is treated better BECAUSE he can do those.
Or, y'know, just go work under a noble, they've been educated that way after all.
Or even if we assume they get thrown out to the street, what's preventing them from learning how to live in the new environment?
We do get to see a priest willing to leave the temple to marry a commoner girl at one point, Myne even give the two a warning on how their common sense might differs, but the two still chose to be together and considering Myne never receive a complaint since, it's likely the case that he adapt to the new environment fine.
Or since you bring up Fran, if you haven't noticed he's been slowly adapting to how to act outside the temple.
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@Chrona Not quite that dramatic
While Gil was in the boys baptised section and wasn't as affected by the downturn, Delia was stuck in the girls basement with all the malnourished kids until she lucked out and got picked by the Bishop due to her looks.
She simply doesn't want to have anything at all to do with the orphanage anymore. Doesn't want to go there, doesn't want to think about it. That part of her life no longer exists and she hates any attempt to bring it back into her life.
End of part 2 / Start of part 3 spoiler:
While Gil was in the boys baptised section and wasn't as affected by the downturn, Delia was stuck in the girls basement with all the malnourished kids until she lucked out and got picked by the Bishop due to her looks.
She simply doesn't want to have anything at all to do with the orphanage anymore. Doesn't want to go there, doesn't want to think about it. That part of her life no longer exists and she hates any attempt to bring it back into her life.
She also hates that they're getting saved when she wasn't.
End of part 2 / Start of part 3 spoiler:
Which is why sending her back there with no hope of ever being an attendant again serves as a severe punishment equivalent to a death sentence.
Consensus seems to actually be the exact opposite. Life expectancy for children specifically shot straight up during the Industrial revolution. If you disagree please provide source.
https://spartacus-educational.com/U3Ahistory21.htm
Nothing I can find shows a sharp decrease during the 1760s to 1830s, before the Cathist movement you mention.
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That face looks like the face of someone who is either guilty or jealous. Neither of these seem good. Well I look forward to the next chapter, ty for the release.
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@Purplelibraryguy I mean, this is from Wikipedia, but: "During the Industrial Revolution, the life expectancy of children increased dramatically. The under-5 mortality rate in London decreased from 745 (745 out of how many? 1,000? - needs clarification) in 1730–1749 to 318 in 1810–1829." They site two sources (1) (2) for this.
I'm not an expert on this topic, and life expectancy obviously doesn't correlate to the quality of life those people have, but googling "child life expectancy industrial revolution" doesn't seem to indicate that 'life expectancy went way down' like you suggested. Of course, there's a lot to consider when looking at a blanket number like life expectancy. One specific group, like poor people, could be decreasing while the upper class's expectancy increases enough to counteract that; certain locations could have rates go down while they go up in other places; etc.
I'm not an expert on this topic, and life expectancy obviously doesn't correlate to the quality of life those people have, but googling "child life expectancy industrial revolution" doesn't seem to indicate that 'life expectancy went way down' like you suggested. Of course, there's a lot to consider when looking at a blanket number like life expectancy. One specific group, like poor people, could be decreasing while the upper class's expectancy increases enough to counteract that; certain locations could have rates go down while they go up in other places; etc.
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@Narinjas @RonBWL
Manga part 2 is slowly catching up to the anime - Volume 4 comes out in october with a key visual being Lutz and his dad.
However manga part 3 (remember they're adapting the arcs in parallel for some reason) is already up to volume three which puts it ahead of the anime by a long shot. It seems to be about where the translated novels are currently.
Of course, we have to wait for translations.
Manga part 2 is slowly catching up to the anime - Volume 4 comes out in october with a key visual being Lutz and his dad.
However manga part 3 (remember they're adapting the arcs in parallel for some reason) is already up to volume three which puts it ahead of the anime by a long shot. It seems to be about where the translated novels are currently.
Of course, we have to wait for translations.
@Purplelibraryguy
Was the only website that split up the demographic change to before the "Cathist" movement you've state, but fine, here you go.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/modernization/Population-change
Life expectancy shot up dramatically during the industrial revolution. 0 dip observed.
Please provide source now for your own claims or else I'm throwing your opinion out as uninformed and speculative.
Was the only website that split up the demographic change to before the "Cathist" movement you've state, but fine, here you go.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/modernization/Population-change
Life expectancy shot up dramatically during the industrial revolution. 0 dip observed.
Please provide source now for your own claims or else I'm throwing your opinion out as uninformed and speculative.
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I mean it's not child labor, it's a child labor cover story KEKW
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Boy got a good head on his shoulders
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