Ijiranaide, Nagatoro-san - Vol. 20 Ch. 150 - Senpai was just being really gross as usual

[Mr.Oblivion]

The problem here is that, Naoto's privacy has, NOT ONCE, EVER been a barrier he actually got mad about, they have always been incredibly open with each other, but now that they're dating an arbitrary barrier now exists that got made in like a single chapter? Come the fuck on

All the way back in chapter 7 or so, when Nagatoro says something out of line, Naoto lets her know and she immediately backs down and apologizes, here Naoto only got defensive about something that has never been an isue before because he got caught lying.

The past DOES NOT MATTER. They are in a relationship and should respect eachother.

 

[Sky777]

You guys are still discussing something that even Naoto has already demolished on page 1 of this chapter.

 

[draxdeveloper]

This is the first time I've ever seen Nagatoro truly crying of sadness... Really tugged at my heart strings :c
Also return of the bad news: 3 weeks break so until monday 3rd of June we'll get the next chapter...

Me: come on, cliff hanger, damn I will need to way a whole week.
Then... This

 

[Tesla93]

The past DOES NOT MATTER. They are in a relationship and should respect eachother.

Naoto in chapter 107 in the final part says "I want to show you the pictures that I will draw" he himself says that he is going to show his drawings to nagatoro when they are a couple and at the beginning of this chapter he regrets what he said to nagatoro at the end of chapter 149.
So Naoto is going to keep showing his drawings to Nagatoro, since he promised himself to show them to him.

 

[currypan2005]

The past DOES NOT MATTER. They are in a relationship and should respect eachother.

Soooo... all of the character growth and bonding that took place between them before they formally started dating...does not matter? Nagatoro's been Senpai's muse, she brought him out of his shell, he encouraged her to be more motivated, she let him draw her naked, they were in a hot springs together naked, she helped him beat Machida during the mock exam, his encouragement helped her beat Orihara, and after all that character growth and bonding, after being so open and vulnerable to each other...opening up his sketch that he brought to art club is crossing boundaries? They're way past that stage already.

 

[Crisxpy]

Sunomya-kun just ready to jump into a fight with Senpai, i love that girl lmao best Hype-girl.
I was wondering where the story would go now that senpai and nagatoro are a couple,
im gladly surprised how tender and delicate their relation is being depicted, showing us that a relationship is not only about getting toghether but the day to day life and how you treat eachother.
Also, Crying Nagatoro hit me so much more than i want to admit, that girl should not cry!

 

[Iceblink]

Shame Machida's chest had to inflated just for this...

lol i agree, they didn't seem like this earlier, not that I complain, but without nipples it's just a waste.

well i didn't expect nagatoro to cry like that, good chapter. buy I also kind of agree that she looks like the victim way too much compared to senpai

anyway the whole argument seems divisive between the fans, but perhaps a sign that this manga is good

 

[Iceblink]

Big, big oof: Nagatoro finally got hit with something so rough she couldn't even keep the teasing facade up.

yes i found it pretty funny. like this is some sort of retribution for all the trolling/teasing she did in the past etc . bitch!

 

[NoctisF]

I'm sorry man but this drama is so fucking contrived and stupid. I guess it's fine because they're in a juvenile relationship so kids will have arguments over dumb shit like this, but I am legit facepalming at this poorly forced drama between them.

Come on, we could've done something better than this, man. 😂

 

[Tesla93]

I'm sorry man but this drama is so fucking contrived and stupid. I guess it's fine because they're in a juvenile relationship so kids will have arguments over dumb shit like this, but I am legit facepalming at this poorly forced drama between them.

Come on, we could've done something better than this, man. 😂

Since when are arguments as a couple beautiful or very spectacular?
All couples fight over very small things.
Worse when they are inexperienced teenagers.
It's okay with me because they're teenagers, they're not adults.

 

[wizard_mouse]

I understand they are a couple now, but I really hate when romcoms have stupid drama and fights that can be solved by simple comunication

 

[Sollertia_]

Mangaka needs to stop excusing whatever Nagatoro does and blaming everything on Senpai as a character development moment

Also it was only for a moment but Nagatoro gained the ability to beat Magnus Carlson at chess during her lowest point lol

 

[crimsonfirebr]

Maybe Im being insensitive but this whole thing is stupid as shit

Yeah, you are insensitive!

 

[radstylix]

Stupid fight, but appropriate for immature teens and their first relationship so I'll partly let it slide.

The comments section on the other hand...

 

[Eighty-six]

Can anyone remind me why is Naoto's privacy something that we actually give a shit about all of a sudden
Throughout this entire manga we haven't had a single molecule of respect for his boundaries but now that they told each other their feelings it does? Because that sounds like bullshit if you ask me

This is exactly what I have been thinking.
She always snooped through his stuff even before they confessed and not even once he had such a strict and hard reaction.

He is in the wrong for suddenly acting like it matters, and all while lying to her about what he drew only to hurt her by amplifying her insecurities regarding her body.

So whine and dine """""""privacy""""""" advocates, you should have been insulted by her since day one when she literally looked at his own drawings without his permission. Or when he did the same with her own sketch book. Let's just hope that this BS ends by next chapter.

Normally, when Nagatoro's violated Naoto's privacy, she's done it to his face. The entire matter of the violation is adjudicated right then and there, with Naoto either relenting or just being "defeated". It isn't proper behavior in its own right, but it was their "normal", Naoto went from not having the backbone to tell her off to outright wanting her around regardless, and it never caused any serious harm, so we the readers got used to it.

(It needs to be noted that early Nagatoro was enough of a turn off for some readers that they initially or permanently dropped the manga. We, the ones who have been following since, are the ones who got used to this dynamic that can come off as too much for others, and we may have not all perfectly accepted the dynamic-- personally, I wasn't offended by it since I had read the CGs at that point and I knew how bad it could have gotten.)

It was also a "normal" established by Nagatoro as part of her way of worming herself into Naoto's life as well as defending her fairly fragile self (I don't mean that derogatorily).

What happened last chapter was in its own class because Nagatoro didn't do it to his face. She did it when he was out of view, and didn't indicate that she was going to do it (either while in conversation with him, or in the proximity of the finished conversation). I'm willing to argue that the action itself shouldn't be considered to be in the same vein as what their "normal" was before their loverhood, because-- if nothing else is known-- it didn't stem from the above attack/defense mechanism, but from being used to the act itself (the act being a feature of the aforementioned attack/defense mechanism).

Since last chapter, I suspected that part of the point of this specific conflict was to recontextualize their "normal" in the setting of a formalized intimate relationship (I'm increasingly more sure of this in this chapter, where Nagatoro intended to do her usual routine of ribbing Naoto with her friends only for her to be unable to complete the routine while discovering that she's become more vulnerable). Among other matters: regardless of what Nagatoro was really feeling when she made the casual violation of his privacy part of the foundation of their relationship, it did demonstrate a lack of respect for him (to whatever degree, since she clearly had limits herself and wouldn't stand others disrespecting him).

That also means that to say that she's "always done this" is a self-defeating argument-- a tendency partly borne from and premised on disrespect is not something you can (or ought to) carry into a normal intimate relationship. Even if she continues to freely view his art as she has, the justification probably will not be "that's how we've always been".

I don't need to talk about Naoto-- we already knew he was in the wrong for lying. He was already speedrunning the realization from "I made you feel a certain way" to "I did something wrong to you".

Not completely a fan that suddenly Naoto is the only one to blame here.

It won't do for Naoto to apportion blame like an actuary when he is at fault.

More generally: it doesn't make for thorough discussion to try to weigh against each other the abstract sense of badness of two faults that don't even rise to "cause for divorce", let alone "criminal".

 

[asdman]

I'm willing to argue that the action itself shouldn't be considered to be in the same vein as what their "normal" was before their loverhood, because-- if nothing else is known-- it didn't stem from the above attack/defense mechanism.

the disagreement between what I -and perhaps other readers who think like myself- that she did not do this as defensive mechanism nor her bullying was to make him grow a backbone, she liked the guy and wanted to get close to him.

The fact of the matter is simply she was always like this and he accepted her for what she was. and you are forgetting the context as it is the biggest factor why he is the one who is in the fault not her. had she done this on something that was mundane and he was hurt as she went through his stuff then absolutely she hurt him and he did not take it lying down.

So it either means that his spine magically grew at that moment as per your argument or worse yet, he only lashes out on people he knows that they care about him and what he says, and is more than happy to let strangers walk all over him and do whatever since he does not have a real spine just vile man who abuses his loved one. Which I don't think it is either btw just him trying to cover up lies by deflecting on spot.

However there is a big context in that he lied to her on multiple occasions to hide the fact he drew someone nude all because he felt that what he did was wrong. and then he deflected blame by instead of admitting fault and apologizing for lying to her about the painting he "lashed out" -more like clutch his pearls if you ask me- which ended hurting her by doubling down on her insecurities as we seen through out the series and he himself thinking that she might like how the other girl is more well endowed or something along those lines.

It was also a "normal" established by Nagatoro as part of her way of worming herself into Naoto's life as well as defending her fairly fragile self (I don't mean that derogatorily).

also just wanted to point out that she was shown in earlier chapters back when that she was very much fine. and should gave all those guys who tried to get close to her the cold shoulder and stood up for herself once anyone tried to go out of line. so I think you might have missed that.

 

[Eighty-six]

the disagreement between what I -and perhaps other readers who think like myself- that she did not do this as defensive mechanism nor her bullying was to make him grow a backbone, she liked the guy and wanted to get close to him.

If it was just a matter of liking Naoto, she would have approached him like a normal person instead of bullying him.

The fact of the matter is simply she was always like this and he accepted her for what she was.

That doesn't mean that "what she was", was entirely "good" or "neutral". Her casually violating his privacy doesn't exist in a vacuum-- earlier chapters had it as part of her bullying routine, which he didn't merely accept. Both he and the readers normalized this because she's a whole person and she was about more than that, but it didn't stem from good tendencies and it can't be retained as is in their relationship-- similarly, Naoto's evasiveness about himself, something that would have never been a problem earlier in their relationship, cannot persist now that they're lovers. The implications of their "normal" on their relationship have changed, now that they consider themselves lovers. Put another way, they've outgrown their old routine.

So it either means that his spine magically grew at that moment as per your argument or worse off he only lashes out on people he knows that they care about him and what he says, and is more than happy to let strangers walk all over him and do whatever since he does not have a real spine just vile man who abuses his loved one.

None of these conceivably follow from any of my arguments.

However there is a big context in that he lied to her on multiple occasions to hide the fact he drew someone nude all because he felt that what he did was wrong. and then he deflected blame by instead of admitting fault and apologizing for lying to her about the painting he "lashed out" -more like clutch his pearls if you ask me- which ended hurting her by doubling down on her insecurities as we seen through out the series and he himself thinking that she might like how the other girl is more well endowed or something along those lines.

I don't need to talk about Naoto-- we already knew he was in the wrong for lying. He was already speedrunning the realization from "I made you feel a certain way" to "I did something wrong to you".

 

[theShear]

I wanted to comment on something in this chapter but ... "sees the trainwreck here" ... maybe not.

 

[asdman]

Both the readers and him normalized this because she's a whole person and she was about more than that, but it didn't stem from good tendencies

Had he really did not want her around he was given the opportunity to remove her from his life as per the manga. he clearly stared out scared of her bullying but that quickly changed to him liking her around, just like how she just enjoyed being around him to liking him. And no one thought her berating him and beating him as a joke was healthy just the premise of the manga.

and it can't be retained as is in their relationship-- similarly, Naoto's evasiveness about himself, something that would have never been a problem earlier in their relationship, cannot persist now that they're lovers. The implications of their "normal" on their relationship have changed, now that they consider themselves lovers. Put another way, they've outgrown their old routine.

this is whole thing is not in the manga and just you expecting them to change routine even though nothing changed. they grew into "partners" as we read from just liking to crushing to showing tendency of sharing mutual affection. we seen this in training arc, the sport tournament how nagatoro not only came back to the sport after abandoning it from senpai cheering to out right winning when he cheered for her.
There was however no such change in sense you describe.

None of these conceivably follow from any of my arguments.

My bad I clearly was thinking of another comment when reading that.

 

[Eighty-six]

Had he really did not want her around he was given the opportunity to remove her from his life as per the manga.

As I said, she's a whole person, so there's more to her than her casual invasions of privacy or even her bullying in general. That doesn't mean that everything she did was "good" or "neutral" in their own right-- just that he put up with it.

this is whole thing is not in the manga and just you expecting them to change routine even though nothing changed.

Something did change though: how they recognize their relationship with each other. There's a lot of implications to the status of an intimate relationship that differentiates it from a friendship, and even a friendship that's outgrown the normal bounds of friendship.