Ijiranaide, Nagatoro-san - Vol. 20 Ch. 150 - Senpai was just being really gross as usual

[Siranimetactic]

This seems a little bit of an overreaction

 

[LoliShinobu]

nanashi forgot to draw the water bottle in page 8.

 

[currypan2005]

Naoto doesn't give a shit about his own privacy. He didn't bother to put up any boundaries until the moment he got caught. In this last chapter he didn't even bother to keep defending his own position. He has zero interest in putting up any barriers between him and Nagatoro moving forward.

Naoto has owned up for it, he's on the path to apologizing, and during the conversation between Naoto and Gamo, Nanashi has made it crystal clear what the moral of the story is.

 

[Bobdillan69]

He didn't allow it, he couldn't stop it. Because she was, you know, bullying him.

Yes, it may have been the first few times.

But again context matters.

it hasn't been bullying for over 100 chapters XD

It's their dynamic.

Not only did MC not stop her from doing that behavior, he began to embrace it, and enjoy her company.

Honestly he would probably feel something is off if she didn't snoop.

 

[currypan2005]

Yes, it may have been the first few times.

But again context matters.

it hasn't been bullying for over 100 chapters XD

It's their dynamic.

Not only did MC not stop her from doing that behavior, he began to embrace it, and enjoy her company.

Honestly he would probably feel something is off if she didn't snoop.

Naoto directly addresses Nagatoro's past bullying both in chapters 132 (his unofficial confession to Nagatoro during the mock exam) and in chapter 144 (the actual confession). He says he looks back on that bullying as fond memories and that she inspired him to change.

 

[Bobdillan69]

Naoto directly addresses Nagatoro's past bullying both in chapters 132 (his unofficial confession to Nagatoro during the mock exam) and in chapter 144 (the actual confession). He says he looks back on that bullying as fond memories and that she inspired him to change.

Exactly.

Although I honestly wouldn't call most of it since like chapter 20 bullying, since it is mostly teasing between friends at that point.

Only the first few times was it bullying. (at least for MC, from nagatoro's side she probably only ever viewed it as teasing and wasn't trying to actually bully him... well at least this version of her, the first drawn version was 100% bully XD )

 

[Spoopa]

As I said, she's a whole person, so there's more to her than her casual invasions of privacy or even her bullying in general. That doesn't mean that everything she did was "good" or "neutral" in their own right-- just that he put up with it.

The problem with this viewpoint is that Naoto COULD draw a line between her usual messing around with her and the stuff he wasn't comfortable with
In Chapter 14 (went back to check), Nagatoro makes fun of his hair and calls him a sheep, this actually hurts him and he tells her that "she didn't have to go there", Nagatoro realizes that what she did was wrong, and apologizes afterwards
Clearly for Naoto there is a line in the sand between Nagatoro calling him gross and her doing something that actually hurts him, her looking at his art was not one of these things. When she finds his sketchbook with the Nekotoro sketches he doesn't react like he did now (though you could chalk that up to him being too embarrassed by her seeing the sketches.)

 

[subwayanyway]

In real life they make you draw naked ugly hobos, whom they hired literally off the street for a meal or a small sum of money. You'd wish it was a nice sexy naked young woman, but alas - only in your dreams. Imagine if Naga saw a sketch of the dirty, ugly naked old bum.

 

[Eighty-six]

The problem with this viewpoint is that Naoto COULD draw a line between her usual messing around with her and the stuff he wasn't comfortable with

You're making an excessive separation between the two categories. It wouldn't be outlandish to assume that Naoto would have preferred her not bullying him at all. After all, it's not just "messing around"-- he does recognize it as bullying (cf. ch. 3, p.9), but he also enjoys Nagatoro's company more than he doesn't, so their relationship at that point is him putting up with her so that he can ultimately still have her attention.

In Chapter 14 (went back to check), Nagatoro makes fun of his hair and calls him a sheep, this actually hurts him and he tells her that "she didn't have to go there", Nagatoro realizes that what she did was wrong, and apologizes afterwards

Are you sure it's chapter 14? That's the one where he gets his ear pierced. Chapter 16 is where Nagatoro likens him to a sheep on account of his hair, but that doesn't culminate in anything but Nagatoro offering to cut his hair and him fighting off her friends so that Nagatoro can be the one that cuts his hair.

I think you're referring to chapter 10 (context: she wanted that they do a manzai routine), but she apologized only to immediately go back to the kind of teasing she was doing before, almost certainly out of shame and embarrassment (and-- given the SFX when she stares at him on p.10... excitement, maybe).

At any rate, I'm left understanding this more as "a step too far" at a time where he's beginning to learn to assert himself, unlike in his past (which is part of the value of the chapter), rather than the teasing in this moment falling squarely in a distinctly different category.

Clearly for Naoto there is a line in the sand between Nagatoro calling him gross and her doing something that actually hurts him, her looking at his art was not one of these things. When she finds his sketchbook with the Nekotoro sketches he doesn't react like he did now (though you could chalk that up to him being too embarrassed by her seeing the sketches.)

I feel like you just pointed out something salient.

Of course, there's nothing worth hiding in his still art, but he didn't intend or want to show Nagatoro and her friends the comic he was drawing in chapter 1-- and then there's your example. On the other hand, he's not particularly hiding his sketches of Nagatoro in earlier chapters because they made an arrangement beforehand for her to model for him, so it makes no sense to hide them.

In other words, it's incorrect to generalize his art and then say that "his art has never been off limits", because he clearly would rather not show off some of his pieces versus others. That doesn't mitigate the fact that he pointlessly lied about his art in this situation, but it does mean that he's not setting up boundaries that are any less semi-predictable than they've always been.

 

[asdman]

I feel like you just pointed out something salient.

Of course, there's nothing worth hiding in his still art, but he didn't intend or want to show Nagatoro and her friends the comic he was drawing in chapter 1-- and then there's your example. On the other hand, he's not particularly hiding his sketches of Nagatoro in earlier chapters because they made an arrangement beforehand for her to model for him, so it makes no sense to hide them.

In other words, it's incorrect to say that "his art has never been off limits", because he clearly would rather not show off some of his pieces versus others. That doesn't mitigate the fact that he pointlessly lied about his art in this situation, but it does mean that he's not setting up boundaries that are any more random than they've always been.

I really did not want go on as we clearly going to agree to disagree. but I have to point out that you are going out of your way to justify why violating his privacy prior to this one singular time was okay be it as he did not want to hide it or did not mind her at that time. All while ignoring that:

1. His prior actions lead to Nagataro to think that snooping around is fine.
2. He actually cared about her looking into his painting, not that he got caught lying. It is clear as this chapter shows he did not so much bother with her snooping but rather that she his nude artwork that he did not get a chance to fess up on time

And the effect was as again this chapter shows, he was not hurt or sad by her looking without permission, but rather worried that what he said ended up hurting her.

 

[ia_zero]

People going crazy with this one. Here's my thoughts. Both of them are wrong. Senpai for lying and misunderstanding. Nagatoro for snooping senpai's phone.

Both of them are new to dating so some problems will arise which is normal. The important part is how they gonna overcome it together.

I think Senpai being the one need to apologize first is the correct way since he can clarify the true situation because he knows the whole story here. Nagatoro would apologize too afterwards.

There's my ted-talk. Thanks for reading. Now both of them can do a make-up Seggss and be happy.

 

[Eighty-six]

I really did not want go on as we clearly going to agree to disagree. but I have to point out that you are going out of your way to justify why violating his privacy prior to this one singular time was okay

I have outright said, on at least one occasion, that it intrinsically wasn't, but that they normalized it within their relationship (initially, this was for the same reasons as why Naoto bore her bullying while maintaining relationship with her).

What you are responding to, is not me trying to do what you're saying I am trying to do. It is me reckoning that there's a running fallacy in this discussion.

 

[Szaal]

The problem here is that, Naoto's privacy has, NOT ONCE, EVER been a barrier he actually got mad about, they have always been incredibly open with each other, but now that they're dating an arbitrary barrier now exists that got made in like a single chapter? Come the fuck on

All the way back in chapter 7 or so, when Nagatoro says something out of line, Naoto lets her know and she immediately backs down and apologizes, here Naoto only got defensive about something that has never been an isue before because he got caught lying.

I don't think the alternative is any better either: now both are dating, so Nagatoro can bully him even harder until he cries? Just like the titular first chapter.

Even Nagatoro admitted that she bullies him less and less as the relationship progresses. And that is good. Everyone already parroted here about Naoto lying to "protect her (himself?)" and Nagatoro rummaging his item without asking, so I'm not going to repeat that.

One way or another, both of them will eventually have to face this issue, sooner or later. What I liked about this chapter is that, despite the typical teenager's hesitation™️ (Naoto got his voice stuck on his throat), each of them saw the light at the end of the tunnel, as well as the wingmen support. Nagatoro got angry at her siblings when they accused senpai as "did something bad to her", as well as trying to cover up the whole incident to her gang as "dw guys, is just the usual me bully", yet the emotion overpowers her. Naoto, being a sheltered introvert, struggled on what mistakes did he make; is it the nude sketch? Is it the telling "no" to your partner?

He realized in the end: he covered up something that is unpleasant. Unpleasant to her? Unpleasant to himself, perhaps. Regardless, it is clear what he did is something dishonest.

The trust in the relationship is at stake. And for that, it will either crumble away and dissolve, both goes part ways, and no longer being a lover. Or, it will grow stronger, both understands each other better and respecting, celebrating the relationship for what they are, becoming inseparable couple that can face hardships together and come up better with it. For however uncanny/cringe the manga is, I give this chapter a score of 11 out of 5. That is double the max with plus one.

 

[asdman]

I have outright said, on at least one occasion, that it intrinsically wasn't, but that they normalized it within their relationship (initially, this was for the same reasons as why Naoto bore her bullying while maintaining relationship with her).

What you are responding to, is not me trying to do what you're saying I am trying to do. It is me reckoning that there's a running fallacy in this discussion.

You have ignored my whole point and latched on the word okay. Have a nice day, since we clearly can't even discuss the topic.

And hopefully next chapter will either be in support to your argument or clear up the confusion that you have regarding their relationship.

 

[Mr.Oblivion]

Naoto doesn't give a shit about his own privacy. He didn't bother to put up any boundaries until the moment he got caught. In this last chapter he didn't even bother to keep defending his own position. He has zero interest in putting up any barriers between him and Nagatoro moving forward.

Naoto has owned up for it, he's on the path to apologizing, and during the conversation between Naoto and Gamo, Nanashi has made it crystal clear what the moral of the story is.

You clearly have no experience, child.

 

[ergzay]

Wait so why is Nagatoro not the one apologizing? Senpai did nothing wrong in the last chapter.

 

[currypan2005]

You clearly have no experience, child.

Ok boomer

 

[AMIdrissi]

ngl i really like how straight forward nanashi is going with these chapters , it does seem a little harsh sometimes but i would love to see how this misunderstanding is gonna get resolved , and tbf i feel like each one of them commited a mistake
(idk why i really felt bad at panel 16-17 , it's very unusual to see nagatoro like that )

P.S : it also seems like there is quite the debate going on in the comments)

 

[Judaskiss]

Wait so why is Nagatoro not the one apologizing? Senpai did nothing wrong in the last chapter.

He’s in an art class. He’s drawing what he’s told to draw to pass the class. It’s literally not a big deal.

 

[KuroeNekumi]

Maybe Im being insensitive but this whole thing is stupid as shit

They're both still somewhat immature adolescents. I expected something like this to happen eventually. Naoto is being stupid about it because the change in relationship with Nagatoro caught him off-guard with how that kind of stuff should be talked, and Nagatoro is being a lot more sensitive (and arguably, stupid in a way) since he tried so hard to keep it from her that he even put up an additional barrier between them so soon after they became a couple (not giving her any good reason to not see his paintings, and hiding stuff that would normally be ok between them), without much of an explanation.


If anything, I'm just glad that Naoto actively wanted to talk things with Nagatoro after thinking on it for a bit, even if he didn't really recognize what his fault was in particular beyond the way he went about the picture with Nagatoro. And I do hope Nagatoro can admit she had some fault in how she acted in response, too.