Imasara desu ga, Osananajimi o Suki ni Natte Shimaimashita - Ch. 42 - The Uprising of the Nosey Girls

[peortega1]

This is the reference to Kaneda in the chapter 24 of the Web Novel. The guy is really the anonymous hero of this story.

Late February.
The chill in the air felt like winter was making a comeback. By nighttime, it had turned bitterly cold.
"Yeah, yeah... so, today, we're doing a too-bad party at Kaneda's place till morning."
But right now, where we were, the outside temperature didn't matter. The heater was cranked way up, almost like it was hyping us up for what was about to happen.
"I'll be back by morning... Yeah, sorry, Mom."
When Yuu hung up his phone and turned toward me, I was already sprawled casually on the giant bed in the middle of the room.

 

[peortega1]

He should’ve at least not thought with his dick though. Bro slept with Yami and kept the relationship going despite having feelings for Hikari. Yes the kiss during the festival isn’t on him but getting that involved with Yami while not being 100% serious indirectly caused all of this. Obviously Yami’s even more to blame as she’s a master manipulator but telling all her wrongs would take too long.

His trigger/erection lost is precisely proof that he wasn't thinking with his dick. l In fact, it was probably the last thing he was thinking about.

 

[peortega1]

This is what I see after read all his POV and re-read the series. Yuu maybe not the naive boy/wishy-washy that we think he is (that view stuck to us after a long time of consuming Aya's POV that describe a younger Yuu at his lowest point). Bro acknowledge the changes in Hikari's attitude and decide to play the long game and gamble everything. But he lost.

This is partially the reason. But there is other reason even most important: even after the growing of Yuu, we have only seen him dealing with "normal" girls. But was just see Yami-senpai and both returned so quickly to their usual couple dynamic... their usual dynamic as dominant girlfriend and dominated boyfriend.
He practically acted as a dog who finally finds his female owner.
And is not only Yami-senpai. Yuu is particulary still enough innocent and submissive, as almost the mostly of male MC of romcoms, to accept quickly be dominated by any girl with the decission and will to take the lead.
Of course, only always if he is free and he doesn´t have a dommy girl I mean a girlfriend in this moment.
This is the reason why the mostly of heroines in romcoms are so passive. Because if they would be more assertive and with more initiative, the story would end very fast.

 

[peortega1]

The one time he actually built up the courage to be proactive in chasing after her, he set himself an impossible goal that even he knew his failure was effectively a foregone conclusion, and it was still only the condition to be met for him to even confess.

Spoiler: Hikari confirmed us that he was right. She with a 99.9% of security would have rejected him.

Shame it didn't work out, but again, his reticence to actually engaging in hard conversations or opening up in any real way--something he's cited as being unable to do since the 5th grade (going by the POV flashbacks to the confession letter forged by his friend)--so someone as broken as Ayami who needed a certain type of expressed validation to feel like it was worth it was going to be incompatible with him.

He is really able to open up in a real way because he did with Yami. His real fear is being rejected after open his heart. He needs to feel there will be somebody there down to grab him in the fall. Somebody in who TRUST. Ayami accepted him with his virtues and failures, accepted him as he was, without fantasies or illusions, and this is the reason why he opened his heart much more to Ayami than Ayami to him.
And not, the actions of Hikari, once and again, prove she is unworthy of that trust. She failed even as a friend of Yuu, and she is as passive as him or even more.

Because in his ~11 years of life in Hikari's orbit, he hasn't learned to take steps himself, always needing the other person to approach him first (Hikari did it, Ayami did it, even Seki did it, and all the girls who asked Hikari to play matchmaker did it)

Exactly like Yuu Izumi, his original base character. Takamura is exactly as Izumi, is literally Izumi, the same decissions, design and personality, the only big difference is if he would had a childhood friend like Hikari and for something both shares even the same name. You securely were from the people who despised Izumi during the emission of Shikimori-san Anime in 2022.
If Ayami Sudo is an Expy from Ai Kamiya, Yuu Takamura is an Expy of Yuu Izumi.
So, other person more criticizing Yuu for being a submissive boy and doesn´t act how do you wanted.
Again, role reversal, role reversal, role reversal, role reversal...

I am willing to be that if he'd said something like that to Hikari instead of "my phone died", everything that went down in that chapter would have been avoided, or mitigated.

Meh, Hikari would still very upset if he hided deliberately that person of his past was "Aya-chan". And IMO, she is as liar as him, because where he asked her by she felt bad, she lied and said that was only the coming late the reason.
The boy only had two options: or say all the truth -including the part of "your best friend is my ex-girlfriend"- or don´t say nothing trusting Hikari didn´t see nothing. Of course, he had to choose the first one.
Being vague about "Aya-chan" would be equally stupid, or even more, because is precisely that fact who darkened everything. Hikari in her PoV in chapter 21 only got really upset when she discovered "Yami-senpai" was "Aya-chan", when she heard Ayami voice.
Let´s say Seki prepared her for the idea of Yuu maybe having an ex girlfriend for somewhere, an ex who really broke his heart.

 

[UdenEmpati]

Spoiler: Hikari confirmed us that he was right. She with a 99.9% of security would have rejected him.

He is really able to open up in a real way because he did with Yami. His real fear is being rejected after open his heart. He needs to feel there will be somebody there down to grab him in the fall. Somebody in who TRUST. Ayami accepted him with his virtues and failures, accepted him as he was, without fantasies or illusions, and this is the reason why he opened his heart much more to Ayami than Ayami to him.
And not, the actions of Hikari, once and again, prove she is unworthy of that trust. She failed even as a friend of Yuu, and she is as passive as him or even more.

Exactly like Yuu Izumi, his original base character. Takamura is exactly as Izumi, is literally Izumi, the same decissions, design and personality, the only big difference is if he would had a childhood friend like Hikari and for something both shares even the same name. You securely were from the people who despised Izumi during the emission of Shikimori-san Anime in 2022.
If Ayami Sudo is an Expy from Ai Kamiya, Yuu Takamura is an Expy of Yuu Izumi.
So, other person more criticizing Yuu for being a submissive boy and doesn´t act how do you wanted.
Again, role reversal, role reversal, role reversal, role reversal...

Meh, Hikari would still very upset if he hided deliberately that person of his past was "Aya-chan". And IMO, she is as liar as him, because where he asked her by she felt bad, she lied and said that was only the coming late the reason.
The boy only had two options: or say all the truth -including the part of "your best friend is my ex-girlfriend"- or don´t say nothing trusting Hikari didn´t see nothing. Of course, he had to choose the first one.
Being vague about "Aya-chan" would be equally stupid, or even more, because is precisely that fact who darkened everything. Hikari in her PoV in chapter 21 only got really upset when she discovered "Yami-senpai" was "Aya-chan", when she heard Ayami voice.
Let´s say Seki prepared her for the idea of Yuu maybe having an ex girlfriend for somewhere, an ex who really broke his heart.

I have no clue what other anime you're talking about by referring to those other characters, and I don't care enough to go reading all of your previous comments to try and understand why you're claiming this story is some kind of carbon copy of an existing one with the character names slightly changed.

So all I will say, is to me it seems we're at an impasse, because you appear to have solidly taken the position that Yuu is a hapless victim who cannot be blamed for the things happening to him, and it's entirely the fault of the two other main characters in his life, based on the tone of every comment I've seen from you here while glancing through the 200+ comments made.

I'm not one of the people who think Yuu's a piece of shit. I do think that he's at least partly to blame because he's way too passive. In a believable way for a teenager, sure. But he's also not learning from his mistakes, or making the hard-but-necessary choices, and it's resulted in what we see here in this current chapter.
Ayami and Hikari are also partly to blame, yes. But they're not the villains in Yuu's sob story.

If you're refusing to put any responsibility on Yuu and instead saying it's all Ayami and Hikari's fault, then we've nothing constructive to discuss, and I'll just leave you to it with the others and will not be responding past this point.

 

[peortega1]

Remember again: KAMIYA AYAMI IS THE BOYFRIEND OF YUU

Role reversal, role reversal, role reversal...

 

[story645]

Kaneda is mentioned in Chapter 24 of the Web Novel (and Hikari also met him during her arc in Chapters 1-19).

Nothing in here implies that Kaneda even knows he's covering for Yuu, much less that Yuu's parents called Kaneda to check:

"Yeah, yeah... so, today, we're doing a too-bad party at Kaneda's place till morning."

But right now, where we were, the outside temperature didn't matter. The heater was cranked way up, almost like it was hyping us up for what was about to happen.

"I'll be back by morning... Yeah, sorry, Mom."

When Yuu hung up his phone and turned toward me, I was already sprawled casually on the giant bed in the middle of the room.

"What'd your mom say?"
"...She told me to do my best on the public high school exams."
"Ohhh? She didn't say, There's something else you should be focusing on first?"
"...Tch."

ETA: also I went back and couldn't find a mention of Kaneda in Hikari's chapters. When does she meet him?

Look, something Hikari never did.

Hikari directly asks if Saeki was his ex in 18 and he doesn't give a straight answer.

and they kiss in maid cafes?

The make out in a manga cafe, which is a classic Japense hook up spot in manga.

They'd be inconsiderate parents if they didn't notice Yuu's depression after the breakup either.

Yuu spent years hiding his emotions from Hikari and in Yuu's flashback he pretty immediately goes into stoic put up walls mode.

In a case like this, what would Hikari have expected?

She wouldn't because it's unexpected but also that they wouldn't know who he is and he'd introduce himself.

Ayami was virgin in her POV, so Yuu must have noticed it anyway

Maruto makes a point of having Aya think Yuu didn't notice that she was a virgin after they had sex (so after the crying). If she was wrong, it would be addressed explicitly in Yuu's POV b/c Maruto has been emphasizing these contrasts in perspective. For example, her being wrong about Yuu not making attempts.

She probably would have gone back anyway if she had to put up with her mother for two or three days straight.

When she quit school the first time she was putting up w/ her mother, it would just be a reversion to that norm.

She is as passive as him and even more.

Aya is explicitly comparing Hikari and Yuu's innocent goodness vibes. With respect to Aya, Hikari has always been very active - looking for Aya, reaching her hand out to Aya, offering support to Aya, calling Aya out.

you're taking too seriously the incoherent rants of a tsundere

Yeah, this is mysogonistic as all out. Her rants are totally coherent, laying out a set of complaints that were foreshadowed in her relationship. Yuu just didn't "read the nuance".

The author has already said it between the lines and implied it reasonably clearly and several times.

We're arguing b/c I think Maruto implies the exact opposite. Both times Yuu feels Hikari rejects him when they're young are explicitly indirect - her reaction to a love note she knows he didn't write, her not being upset that they're going to different schools - rather then her ignoring any overt overtures.

we don't have his POV, we have her POV

Yeah, her POV of their love story - if he told her "I love you" it would be in her POV b/c it's important to her, which is why we see when she tells him she loves him in 27.

she doesn't seem to complain or ever claim that Yuu doesn't declare his love for her

Yeah, because she doesn't want him to know how serious she is about him:

So, I do what I always do -- I change course.

"Not that I expect you to get it. You're in the middle of your bright, shiny youth, after all."
"You're the same age, you know!"

I let go of his hand and poke his nose playfully.
Teasing him like the younger guy he is, pretending to be the lazy, carefree girl who lives for the moment.

That's how I wanted to see you, defending Yami. That's how I wanted to see you. After all the criticism you gave her.

I wrote basically the same response to IotaCS like 4 pages ago, what are you even talking about?

Her best attempt at attacking Yuu, in chapter 40, is caresses compared to how she treated Hikari not only in chapter 41,

Her inability to be honest with Yuu is not a flex. It's why Hikari understands that Aya is still in love with Yuu but it's not clear if Yuu does. And it's why Aya ghosts instead of having a conversation - Aya admits in the crash out that it was a test Yuu failed by not looking for her.

5-minute dialogue with Yuu wouldn't have been enough for the girl to mentally collapse like she did.

She didn't collapse, instead she finally stopped "pretending to be the lazy, carefree girl who lives for the moment". Like that's good growth on her part, even if the yelling was bad.

Yes, Aya is so "close" to Hikari that she didn't hesitate for more than 30 seconds to betray her by kissing Yuu the moment she saw her at the window

I think it's more that Aya is self-destructive. In 13.5 Aya thinks that her relationship with Yuu is a ridiculous tragedy that she expects will blow up her friendship with Hikari. So she's gonna do it first by having Hikari see the kiss, just like Aya blew up her relationship with Yuu by ghosting him.

I'm precisely offering concrete evidence that Imasara is a different journey from previous works,

Since I didn't read the other works, I have no frame of reference for a discussion based on Maruto's work. Furthermore, your reliance on his other work makes it really hard to follow your argument b/c it's sometimes unclear if you're crossing storylines/characterizations.

 

[peortega1]

I have no clue what other anime you're talking about by referring to those other characters, and I don't care enough to go reading all of your previous comments to try and understand why you're claiming this story is some kind of carbon copy of an existing one with the character names slightly changed.

It's not exactly a carbon copy, but I do believe Shikimori was Maruto's main inspiration for Imasara. And that Yuu and Ayami are expy versions of Yuu Izumi and Ai Kamiya, respectively.

Like Eriri in Saekano, based on Chitoge from Nisekoi. I'm talking about this specific anime, whose opening motto is literal: "she seems the boyfriend of this relationship":

And yes, with just see the first 7 minutes of 1st chapter you definitely will remember Yuu Takamura, and not for good reasons. And this is something that Shikimori's MC shares with Maruto's previous male MCs: Haruki Kitahara (White Album 2) and Tomoya Aki (Saekano).
All passive, weak, submissive types who need positive signals to dare to confess to the girls they like...

So all I will say, is to me it seems we're at an impasse, because you appear to have solidly taken the position that Yuu is a hapless victim who cannot be blamed for the things happening to him, and it's entirely the fault of the two other main characters in his life, based on the tone of every comment I've seen from you here while glancing through the 200+ comments made.

Nowhere did I say this. Nor have I denied his responsibility for these actions. But I do think he's being overjudged for having a submissive and passive personality when it's an integral part of his, let's say, personality.
Especially when that's probably the main reason Hikari unawarely friendzoned him (well, brotherzoned him). She doesn´t want to be anyone's dominatrix. And she's perfectly within her right.
And yes, that's precisely why I agree with your comments. With Ayami, it worked out and he achieved the romantic relationship he so desperately wanted because he finally gave up on Hikari and, above all, now he found a girl who was truly compatible with him, his tastes, and his personality, who was more than willing to take the initiative in the relationship.
That's why it seems silly to blame his submissive personality for the failure of his relationship with Ayami. That said, he can certainly be blamed for his passive and cowardly personality for other things, like what happened with Hikari after Yami's Judas kiss...
I'm not one of the people who think Yuu's a piece of shit. I do think that he's at least partly to blame because he's way too passive. In a believable way for a teenager, sure. But he's also not learning from his mistakes, or making the hard-but-necessary choices, and it's resulted in what we see here in this current chapter.

Ayami and Hikari are also partly to blame, yes. But they're not the villains in Yuu's sob story.

Because nobody is the villain. Everyone made major mistakes, everyone failed. But of the three, I think he's the least guilty, and the one who has sinned more by omission than by action (which is still bad). Also, you speak as if Hikari weren't as passive as he was, only even more accommodating when Ayami lashed out at her—because if Hikari were truly willing to make the "hard-but-necessary choices" or learn from her mistakes, she wouldn't have forgiven Yami so easily after the attempt to prostitute her.
But yes, I agree that while Yami gave in to her darkness, Hikari and Yuu gave in to their cowardice and passivity, and that's why they didn't make the decisions they should have.
That said, it's still not exactly a compliment to say that Yuu didn't do anything wrong because, in reality, Yuu never did anything.
At most, lying about his dead phone and confessing at the wrong time and day.

 

[peortega1]

Nothing in here implies that Kaneda even knows he's covering for Yuu, much less that Yuu's parents called Kaneda to check:

Yes, definitely zero reading comprehension. You are a lost case. The boy literally returned his home more than TWENTY-FOUR hours after his departure (in fact, probably he came to his house even late for dinner)... definitely they called to Kaneda and definitely Kaneda had to give the face to defend his friend.
The alternative is his parents being so ridicuously incompetent for the lovely parents Hikari describes to us.

Hikari directly asks if Saeki was his ex in 18 and he doesn't give a straight answer.

He did a straight answer, even if he quickly repents to talk about it, again, other proof Yuu talks very easily if he is pressured:

"Hm? What, someone show up with a whole new look?"
"One of the juniors I know... showed up with her new boyfriend."
"......What?"
"Uh..."
The mood I put so much effort in just totally froze!
"This...... girl... is.........?"
"Oh, no, it's not someone you know, Hikari. She didn't go to our middle school, and she's a year below us."

And just after Yuu says he is uncomfortable, Hikari doesn´t pressures more to him:

But... he's not reacting like he always does.
"...Sorry, I'm just a bit..."
"No, I'm sorry. I was being annoying."
"No, that's not it. That's not it at all."
"...Ta~kun?"
It feels like... he's actually aware of something.

And yes, this seems the moment where Yuu finally was secure Hikari was really and finally interested on him, finally asking him so openly about his romantic life.
So, definitely their parents forced him to talk with them about Yami-senpai in any point of his relationship with her.

The make out in a manga cafe, which is a classic Japense hook up spot in manga.

Still not directly sex. A thing is "I kissed my girlfriend in a manga cafe" and other thing is "I had sex with her". Precisely because, for example, THOSE SITES HAVE CAMERAS, as precisely Yuu says to Yami in that moment.

Yuu spent years hiding his emotions from Hikari and in Yuu's flashback he pretty immediately goes into stoic put up walls mode.

Just after Yami breakup. Is very obvious Yuu was horribly bad hiding his emotions to Hikari. This is the reason why she notices the change of him. He finally is not openly simping her.

She wouldn't because it's unexpected but also that they wouldn't know who he is and he'd introduce himself.

And why he would introduce himself after being called "Taa-kun" for those girls? We had this debate in the past and I´m bothered. It´s a very huge disrespect and even more in the fucking Japanese society so devoted to rules and protocols. Is much more easy assume Hikari was a fool who never expected what would happened.

Maruto makes a point of having Aya think Yuu didn't notice that she was a virgin after they had sex (so after the crying). If she was wrong, it would be addressed explicitly in Yuu's POV b/c Maruto has been emphasizing these contrasts in perspective. For example, her being wrong about Yuu not making attempts.

Because the omake of Yuu is not his real PoV, is just a brief looking to his mind. Is just the peak of the iceberg, and there is a reason why Ayami just appears in screen one time in all the chapters, maybe two if you count the end of chapter 3 -and the chapter ends before Yuu turns the head to look her to his side-.
So, if we didn´t see the first time moment from the PoV of Yuu, we cannot say he noticed or didn´t notice nothing. The most secure is he noticing it and didn´t saying nothing, and this is the reason why Yami believed he didn´t notice it. And again, the famous phrase "Her pain is much worse than mine" definitely can be considered as including the part of Yami giving him her first time.

When she quit school the first time she was putting up w/ her mother, it would just be a reversion to that norm.

Not. When she quit school first time was to flee from her step-father mainly. Right now she is still feel guilty because the suicide attempt of her mother and this is the reason why she returns in school and remains in school, with Hikari help, true, but the decisive factor is she looking a way to far from her mother without betray her. A way to spent time from away from her mother but would be approved by society.

Aya is explicitly comparing Hikari and Yuu's innocent goodness vibes. With respect to Aya, Hikari has always been very active - looking for Aya, reaching her hand out to Aya, offering support to Aya, calling Aya out.

And "Aya-chan" payed her with a much worse coin than she did with Yuu. She treated Hikari much worse than she treated Yuu. Do you start to finally realize?

Yeah, this is mysogonistic as all out. Her rants are totally coherent, laying out a set of complaints that were foreshadowed in her relationship. Yuu just didn't "read the nuance".

Is mysogonistic consider incoherent a rants who she herself considers a fully incoherence and an act of madness and craziness from her part? Is Yami herself who says us we have not to take so seriously her rants during her mental breakdown because "I am a mad girl".

We're arguing b/c I think Maruto implies the exact opposite. Both times Yuu feels Hikari rejects him when they're young are explicitly indirect - her reaction to a love note she knows he didn't write, her not being upset that they're going to different schools - rather then her ignoring any overt overtures.

Those rejects are explicitily indirect to show us Hikari was not interested in love and never notice nothing because she didn´t love neither Yuu nor anyone more. To show us this was an unaware reject from her, but a reject after all.
And again, she confirmed him in Yuu omake 5 and she confirmed in chapter 17 of her own Arc too. She was not interested in his academic future, and she recognized to him, so, she definitely would reject him.

Yeah, her POV of their love story - if he told her "I love you" it would be in her POV b/c it's important to her, which is why we see when she tells him she loves him in 27.

Not exactly. Her PoV of their love story is centered on her, not in him. Again, reflecting her dominant personality. And also, if she would feel he didn´t say her "I love you", she definitely would have complain from this much more directly. Her complain is much more about Yuu not being enough serious is literally bc he doesn´t coming to rescue her from her evil mother than "he didn´t said me he loves me", and of course, and this point is really valid, she always feared the ghost of Hikari and is precisely all this ressentment and hate who emerges in chapter 41.

Yeah, because she doesn't want him to know how serious she is about him:

I mean her inner monologue. She never complains for Yuu about it. Even in her mental breakdown, her only real noise is him doesn´t acting enough as a stalker, and again, he did it anyway.

Her actions with Hikari leaves very clear she prefers a lot the passive Yuu than Hikari pushing her to lash out against Hikari.

I wrote basically the same response to IotaCS like 4 pages ago, what are you even talking about?

Not, you didn´t say the same. Here you were more emphatic. Anyway, is still comical this is the first thread, in dozens of threads about Imasara, you say this in defense of Yami. Are you really dispaired, are not?

Her inability to be honest with Yuu is not a flex. It's why Hikari understands that Aya is still in love with Yuu but it's not clear if Yuu does. And it's why Aya ghosts instead of having a conversation - Aya admits in the crash out that it was a test Yuu failed by not looking for her.

Again, she never says the ghosting "was a test".

She didn't collapse, instead she finally stopped "pretending to be the lazy, carefree girl who lives for the moment". Like that's good growth on her part, even if the yelling was bad.

Yes, she slapping Yuu and later kissing him before Hikari was not a collapse, yes, of course -sarcasm, Sheldon-. "Good growth" would be respond to Yuu clearly instead return to play again to the seductress senpai, this is the reason why he bothered and got tired, and decided go out to look Hikari.

I think it's more that Aya is self-destructive. In 13.5 Aya thinks that her relationship with Yuu is a ridiculous tragedy that she expects will blow up her friendship with Hikari. So she's gonna do it first by having Hikari see the kiss, just like Aya blew up her relationship with Yuu by ghosting him.

Yes, you start to see the difference. She doesn´t have the guts to hurt Yuu in his face directly, even when she wants to be self-destructive, she was not even able to write a last message to him to break with him, nothing. But with Hikari... yes, here she really has the gonads to kiss Yuu in her face and later insult her openly. Is very obvious what of the both relationships is more healthy and appropiated for a person with serious psychological problems, and not, is not Hikari.

Since I didn't read the other works, I have no frame of reference for a discussion based on Maruto's work. Furthermore, your reliance on his other work makes it really hard to follow your argument b/c it's sometimes unclear if you're crossing storylines/characterizations.

So, you should to start to read or watch the other works I already mentioned here before still saying non-sense head-canon of yours that only exists in your head.
So you start to leave your misandric analysis against Yuu.

 

[story645]

Yes, definitely zero reading comprehension. You are a lost case.

This level of rudeness is uncalled for & if you keep doing it than I'm going to stop responding to you.

The alternative is his parents being so ridicuously incompetent

Or they trust their son and have no reason to think he lied to them?

He did a straight answer, even if he quickly repents to talk about it,

Where is your translation from? It's really different from the manga and xxddmm translations:

"C'mon, spill it already~! You totally dated that junior, didn't you~?"
"Seriously, stop..."
"Ehhh? Why not? Why not?
"Oh, c'mon, tell me! Tell me everything!"
"Whoa! H-Hey!"
"So, what's your deal with her? You said new boyfriend, right? Is she... maybe your ex?"

But nope, he's not escaping this time. My curiosity (and, okay, maybe a touch of desperation) is way stronger right now.
I press right up against his back, making sure he knows I'm not letting this go.

"C'mon, spill it already~! You totally dated that junior, didn't you~?"
"Seriously, stop..."
"Ehhh? Why not? Why not?"

I push forward, playing the overly familiar childhood friend card just like usual.
If he really does get mad, I'll just brush it off with my usual Oh, come on, I was just kidding~! and laugh it off.

Still not directly sex.

The activity was hooking up and the conversation that follows is "let's go to a hotel".

Is very obvious Yuu was horribly bad hiding his emotions to Hikari. This is the reason why she notices the change of him.

The last Yuu flashback chapter talks about how he's starting to let down his walls & Hikari noticed the change after he would have made that decision.

It´s a very huge disrespect and even more in the fucking Japanese society so devoted to rules and protocols.

Please point me to the Japanese etiquette guide that says it's disrespectful to not use the full names of folks when talking about them to other people.

"Her pain is much worse than mine" definitely can be considered as including the part of Yami giving him her first time.

It was clear from the context that he was talking about her emotional pain. If Yami was in that much physical pain, then Yuu is absolutely trash at sex. Also we get enough of their first time in their flashback that no Yuu didn't notice during.

Right now she is still feel guilty because the suicide attempt of her mother and this is the reason why she returns in school and remains in school, with Hikari help, true, but the decisive factor is she looking a way to far from her mother without betray her.

She hung out with her mom for a month out of guilt & when her mom seemed to be doing better tried the school thing again b/c her relationship with Yuu made her willing to try. She immediately wanted to nope out and then Hikari made her want to try again. There's never anything in Aya's POV indicating that she cares about disappointing her mom - only that she finds her mom overbearing.

She treated Hikari much worse than she treated Yuu.

When she was pushing Hikari away because she thought Hikari would be harder to push way.

who she herself considers a fully incoherence

She acknowledges she's being unreasonable for being mad that Yuu didn't do those things. That's not the same as her thinking her wants were incoherent.

Those rejects are explicitily indirect to show us Hikari was not interested in love and never notice nothing because she didn´t love neither Yuu nor anyone more.

Maruto could have shown this just as clearly by having had Hikari not recognize an explicit overture by Yuu, like an invitation to a date.

And also, if she would feel he didn´t say her "I love you", she definitely would have complain from this much more directly.

That would ruin the "lazy, carefree girl" image she's going for.

I mean her inner monologue. She never complains for Yuu about it.

She's pretty disappointed here - goes into detail about just how much he didn't think she was serious than immediately deflects:

Today, tomorrow, the day after...
...No, I don't want just that.

"Hey, Yuu."
"Hm?"

Even thinking about the trip back, about saying goodbye... I hate it.

"Wanna live together?"
"...What?"

One second... two...

Yuu’s blank expression...
It doesn’t change at all.

It wasn’t surprise, or a sudden realization, or anything that felt serious.
It was just blank, dazed, with no expectations, and no possibilities at all.

"So yeah, I'll make you my boy toy, and we can just live a carefree life together! Haha!"
"Agh! You're lying again!"

So, I do what I always do -- I change course.

Again, she never says the ghosting "was a test".

She tells him that if he had come looking for her then she would have jumped in his arms, which means it wasn't about her mother's condition.

"Good growth" would be respond to Yuu clearly instead return to play again to the seductress senpai,

That would be better growth yeah,.

Is very obvious what of the both relationships is more healthy and appropiated for a person with serious psychological problems,

Yes, the one where she's not doing as she always does, pretending to be the "lazy carefree girl". The one where she genuinely admits she wants to keep being with her friend & her friend responds with an offer of support. The relationship where that wish was granted cause it's the next year and they're in the same class during the festival.

So you start to leave your misandric analysis against Yuu.

What of my analysis is mysandric?

nyway, is still comical this is the first thread, in dozens of threads about Imasara, you say this in defense of Yami.

🤨 I've alternately criticized and defended Aya, Yuu, and Hikari throughout these discussions. Many months back I was writing long threads on why Aya's ghosting was understandable and I even mostly defend her crash out. Again, where are you even getting this from?

 

[eviljackspicer]

I honestly believe that Yuu's biggest problem was that he was being dishonest, ie thinking that lying about Yami, probably thinking it's no big deal if Hikari never finds out about it. Problem, was that he was caught red handed and caught lying about to Hikari. He just needs to own up to it. That's the extent of the "issue" with Yuu.

 

[peortega1]

This level of rudeness is uncalled for & if you keep doing it than I'm going to stop responding to you.

You would make me a favor if you don´t respond me more, misandric troll without reading comprehension and without any comprehension of the masculine mind.

Or they trust their son and have no reason to think he lied to them?

Until the point of doesn´t call that friend after TWENTY-FOUR hours... don´t toy with me. Also, I´m still without see why Yuu didn´t would say nothing to Kaneda with at least a message during all that time, precisely because he is the enough insecure to rightfull be afraid his parents would call Kaneda to ask by him. You are denying the idea of Yuu saying Kaneda his male best friend, only because doesn´t fit with your head-canon with any basis of "Yuu feels ashamed for being the boyfriend of Ayami".
This is the kind of things why I call you misandric and a troll. You really destroyed my patience after all this BS of "Yuu never said nothing to his male best friend because reasons".

Where is your translation from? It's really different from the manga and xxddmm translations:

Precisely I got it from xxddmm. Your quote is in the point he is repenting after say those things to Hikari about Seki, and, as always, you deleted the part of him saying he is feeling umconfortable and asking her to stop to question, and she DOES IT.
But he definitely gave a straight answer to her, even if he didn´t want to give all the details. And this is just after a little of real pression of Hikari.
Imagine with real pression from his parents, much more near to him than Hikari ever was.

The activity was hooking up and the conversation that follows is "let's go to a hotel".

Hooking up doesn´t neccesarily would come to "let´s go to a hotel", if you have read several mangas -of course, not-. Yuu doesn´t need to say that part to his parents. With the part of kisses and make ups in cafe mangas is enough to can be understood by his parents in his feelings and hopes with Ayami.

The last Yuu flashback chapter talks about how he's starting to let down his walls & Hikari noticed the change after he would have made that decision.

Exactly. The Yuu who built his walls AFTER being heartbroken by Ayami in his first real heartbreak of his life. The more distant Yuu who finally attracted Hikari. "Taa-kun the breakhearts", as Yami said.

Please point me to the Japanese etiquette guide that says it's disrespectful to not use the full names of folks when talking about them to other people.

In the country where you call people for the surname and not by the name (and yes, this is the reason why Hikari calling Ayami as "Aya-chan" BEFORE the "heavy joke" of whoring her in chapter 33-34 is securely other of the reasons why Ayami did that)... yes, it´s very disrespectful.
And in any country of the world, including USA itself, yes, it´s disrepectful only use the private and intimate nicknames of any person except if that person allows explicitily anyone calls in that way in public. Troll.

It was clear from the context that he was talking about her emotional pain. If Yami was in that much physical pain, then Yuu is absolutely trash at sex. Also we get enough of their first time in their flashback that no Yuu didn't notice during.

I didn´t talk about her physical pain. I talked about he noticing she is virgin even while she is still playing the role of "experienced senpai"... yes, is the kind of psychological things he definitely would notice it to conclude she is acting to hide her emotional pain.
He probably noticed it (is practically impossible he didn´t see the blood in his own penis), but he didn´t say nothing. This would fit with the already mentioned topics.

She hung out with her mom for a month out of guilt & when her mom seemed to be doing better tried the school thing again b/c her relationship with Yuu made her willing to try. She immediately wanted to nope out and then Hikari made her want to try again. There's never anything in Aya's POV indicating that she cares about disappointing her mom - only that she finds her mom overbearing.

I didn´t say disappointing her mom. I said hurting again her mom. She definitely doesn´t want other suicide attempt from her mother. If you see chapter 12.5 or 13.5 (the chapter she realize Taa-kun is Yuu), she is still feel very guilty by her mother and she says us again it is for her mom she feels she is unworthy of Yuu.
And this is the reason why she decides to return to school and would do again after the first new fight with her mother.

When she was pushing Hikari away because she thought Hikari would be harder to push way.

She definitely was not trying to "push away Hikari" in moments like chapter 5 -when she tried to SA Hikari- or chapter 21 -the Judas kiss-. So, is her natural reaction any time who Hikari tries to push Yami. Ayami will last out without thinking twice. And also this is the reason she is not able to hurt Yuu in his face... but with Hikari, she is much more cruel. And again, the resentement accumulated against her from her time as girlfriend of Yuu.
As I said, one of the few complains really mentioned by Yami in the text is... the ghost of Hikari. And this is the reason why when she lashes out against Hikari in chapters 21 and 41, she is releasing all that resentement against the girl she feels she had to fight all that time as Yuu girlfriend. Again, choosing Yuu over Hikari.

She acknowledges she's being unreasonable for being mad that Yuu didn't do those things. That's not the same as her thinking her wants were incoherent.

Her rants are incoherent by her same words. Yami doesn´t want a stalker who would do those things by her, same by she herself in the novel. And yes, this reforce my theory of this is the reason why she ordered Yuu to shut up when she noticed it he was going to talk about his attempts to look her:

"Even if I blocked your calls, it wasn't hard to find you."

There's no doubt that I'm bad and I'm ugly.

"But, but... I never found it..."

No matter who hears it, no matter how you listen, it's an unbelievable accusation.

"I've been going to school since last September, you know?"

Of course you don't know that. You have no responsibility.

"If only Yuu had skipped school for even one day. If only she had been spying in front of the station since morning. If only she had found me and called out to me..."

There's no way we can do something so uncertain.

"If that happens, I'll definitely run away and refuse to be caught."

On the other hand, if someone did that, they would be considered a stalker. Normally, that would be a big turn-off.

"But even so, if you don't give up, and chase after me again and again...!"

But I'm not normal. I'm crazy.
Yes, I wanted him to do it. I didn't want him to do it...

So, again, you are taking so seriously the incoherent rants of a menhera tsundere during her mental breakdown after a year without see the boy she likes. But she definitely thinks if Yuu would do those things, he would let to be the Yuu she loves.
And yes, these are incoherent rants because she herself says us they are incoherent and a valid reason to consider her as a crazy person worthy to send to a psychiatric hospital.

Maruto could have shown this just as clearly by having had Hikari not recognize an explicit overture by Yuu, like an invitation to a date.

Because we just only have the PoV of Hikari. You know, the PoV of Hikari being so ridicuously delusional and blind, and this includes her "friendship" with "Aya-chan".
The Yuu omake is too brief, summarized and ambiguous to be his real PoV, again there is a reason why Maruto said this material was unworthy to be included in the Light Novel. This is just the peak of the iceberg. And again, is still implicit anyway. Maruto doesn´t have to push the envelope for us the readers. But he has leave enough implicit between lines in these chapters, both Yuu Omake and Hikari Arc.

That would ruin the "lazy, carefree girl" image she's going for.

Again, I am talking about her inner monologues. Not about her dialogues with Yuu or Hikari. Even in her inner monologues, there are not almost real complains about Yuu, just the already mentioned and quoted by me.

She's pretty disappointed here - goes into detail about just how much he didn't think she was serious than immediately deflects:

You are funny, you choose precisely the only one scene where probably even Yuu himself realized during all that long year he screwed up. The only one scene where I remember I directly said this was the only real screw of Yuu in the relationship. The only time we really see him in screen ruining it with Yami and she saying directly to us in her inner monologue he really messed up.
So, for the anon who asked me by the failures of Yuu: this is one.
And I believe I said too is very logical a 15 year old teenager doesn´t take seriously the idea of abandon his parents (again, other proof he securely said them about Yami, even omitting all the sexual parts) to live with his girlfriend. Even here, the leitmotiv is clear: he is much more responsible than her trying to act as an adult woman much faster than she is really prepared for that.
And yes, this is still a huge mess for his part. I said before and I repeat now. One of his few real big mistakes as boyfriend of Ayami -and yes, definitely this helped to their breaking up-. He should have given a serious answer to her, like he saying her before in the same chapter they couldn´t stay more than 3 days in the beach hotel.

She tells him that if he had come looking for her then she would have jumped in his arms, which means it wasn't about her mother's condition.

Again, she says that while she is thinking she is crazy and she didn´t want he would do it. You take so seriously her grief speaking by her, and Yami incoherent rants in full tsundere menhera mode.

That would be better growth yeah

Finally a point we are agree.

Yes, the one where she's not doing as she always does, pretending to be the "lazy carefree girl". The one where she genuinely admits she wants to keep being with her friend & her friend responds with an offer of support. The relationship where that wish was granted cause it's the next year and they're in the same class during the festival.

You know this is exactly who happened too in chapter 27, not? During the phone conversation between Ayami and Yuu. Including Yami expressing her desires to fix everything in her family (and believing she really reached it in chapter 28) and go out with Yuu to a hotel and all that after saying she loves him. And not, by his face expressions in this chapter is very obvious this is their couple dynamic and she enjoys see him arousal and shy, again, emphatizising the ROLE REVERSAL.
She never thinks in this chapter he is not taking seriously her feelings.

What of my analysis is mysandric?

The part of you forgiving more easily the passive personality of Hikari because she is a girl and criticizing more harshly to Yuu for the same actions because he is a boy.
You are denying the nature of the Yami-Yuu relationship, as much people have said to you. Repeat with me: role reversal, role reversal, role reversal...

I've alternately criticized and defended Aya, Yuu, and Hikari throughout these discussions. Many months back I was writing long threads on why Aya's ghosting was understandable and I even mostly defend her crash out. Again, where are you even getting this from?

I mean the concrete point of Aya trying to prostitute Hikari to an old man. This thread is the first time, to Iota and me, you are really defending Yami in the point of all this being just a "heavy joke" for her without real intentions, in all these threads. Because all that scene, even being "just a heavy joke", destroy all your argue about Hikari and Yami and presents her relationship as really are.

 

[peortega1]

I honestly believe that Yuu's biggest problem was that he was being dishonest, ie thinking that lying about Yami, probably thinking it's no big deal if Hikari never finds out about it. Problem, was that he was caught red handed and caught lying about to Hikari. He just needs to own up to it. That's the extent of the "issue" with Yuu.

The fun part is, yes, he owned up about it, and yes, he definitely screwed up here and he definitely did that because he chose to believe Hikari didn´t see nothing, Hikari never saw the robbed kiss (a huge mistake):

I see, I thought so...
I always thought something was different about Hikari.
She saw "that", she saw us...
I 'm not lying.
I've loved you for a long time.
But there's no doubt that I'm the worst today, right...?
Takamura Yuu, 16 years old...
Today I had my fourth heartbreak. And the third one provoked by Hikari.

Spoiler: the line of "I am the worst" is something Yuu shares with Haruki, Tomoya... and Yuu Izumi.

 

[peortega1]

If you, people, need examples of the anime and manga of Shikimori-san, to show my point of the parallels, I am disposed to put them in this thread. But if you think that would be deviate the thread, I don´t have problem and I can leave thus.
But to leave a little example, this is the inner monologue of Ai Kamiya. Familiar, not?

 

[peortega1]

And yes, all the discourse about "youth" and "young love" is other thing of Ayami who is directly taken from Kamiya:

 

[peortega1]

This is just a brief glimpse about why I think Kamiya is at least an inspiration of Maruto for Ayami.
Even if Kamiya was possibly based in Kazusa Touma (White Album 2) anyway.
And in this way, the circle closes up.
PS. And yes, if you read that chapter (chapter 41) about the story of Yuu Izumi how he confessed to Shikimori, you will can by yourself see exactly the same things on Izumi you have criticized to Yuu Takamura in all these chapters.

 

[peortega1]

This is Tomoya Aki, Male Main Character of Saekano. Pure manhood, not?

If do you want to know why I am more, let´s say, "tolerant" with Taa-kun, is because, as I already said, he is securely the most decent and valiant male MC written by Maruto.
Believe me, Yuu is a saint compared with Tomoya and Haruki, who had all the defects and low self-esteem of Yuu... and much several defects more to add to the list. And much but more much lies and messings.
All these MCs has this point in common: they need his Angels go down from heaven to rescue them to be able to act. All these boys NEED these girls.
And this is important because is the real problem between Hikari and Yuu. This is the reason why she unawarely friendzoned him in middle school.
Hikari never was, is or will be the dommy assertive girlfriend Yuu so helplessly wants. Because she have never wanted to being it. She prefers being alone than to be the dominatrix of nobody. And that is fine, she is in her right. Exactly like Eriri with Tomoya, even if both Utaha and Megumi said to her, exactly like "Aya-chan" said it to Hikari.
This is the reason why Hikari never will be the only one girlfriend of Yuu. Her only chance is in the harem polyamory ending who Yami practically proposed in chapter 39 -and she would had a real opportunity to be heard by both Hikari and Yuu if she, again, would talked openly instead fall in her self-destructive menhera mode again-

 

[LeBronBron]

My poor boy, Yuu. Still getting blamed for things that weren’t his fault and out of his control. And he’s extremely depressed.

Hikari being completely broken by the betrayal was expected. But it still hurts knowing to see it.

Yami, once again, is running away after destroying everything.

Hikari’s friends must be reader self-inserts with how they absolved Yami and blamed Yuu for everything

I hope the author knows what he’s doing

Also we getting 1 update per month now.

I wont blame Yuu for everything but saying things werent his fault when it was his decision to sleep and have a relationship with Yami whilest having feelings for Hikari is crazy. Espespially after we have seen how quick he was to go back to Yami once he saw her again. Like bro yeah he isnt the only one at fault but downplaying him like that is craaaaazy

 

[peortega1]

I wont blame Yuu for everything but saying things werent his fault when it was his decision to sleep and have a relationship with Yami whilest having feelings for Hikari is crazy. Espespially after we have seen how quick he was to go back to Yami once he saw her again. Like bro yeah he isnt the only one at fault but downplaying him like that is craaaaazy

Again, he didn´t go back with Yami once he saw her again. He was being just gentle to get an appropiated closure with her, as much we can blame on him for want be again friend of the right now best friend of Hikari -and yes, is in this way both they returned so quickly to their couple dynamic in this dialogue in the classroom, as friends, before Yuu leaving it for go to Hikari-.
He decided have a relationship with Yami precisely as a way to get over Hikari and can love only to Yami, and she knew it, she says directly it in her chapters she is decided to make Yuu forget Hikari. And he was reaching it until the moment Yami ghosted him and broke up with him.
His actions with Hikari after Yami breaking up with him, are much more coward, questionable and did damage to both, but with Yami, Yuu definitely did nothing wrong.

 

[story645]

This thread is the first time, to Iota and me, you are really defending Yami in the point of all this being just a "heavy joke" for her without real intentions

I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't her who set this current situation up.

I would, but that's cause I just don't think Aya thinks that far ahead. ETA: to be fair, that's basically a defining characteristic of teenagers/young adults.

Not to remotely defend her, but Aya probably really doesn't understand the horrific seriousness of what she's done. She's already got trauma due to pervy older men and so far she's been treating sugar dating as a bit of a dark joke.

https://forums.mangadex.org/threads...ta-ch-33-not-over-there.2121741/post-24947301