Imasara desu ga, Osananajimi o Suki ni Natte Shimaimashita - Ch. 43 - The Pride of the Lecturing Girls

[story645]

I thought you'd agree with me that she doesn't seem like she needs that much effort to be on top of her class, but oh well.

So my bias is that I went to a (test into) elite high school & the folks at the top of the class worked crazy hard and Hikari is described as a hard worker.

But how does that explain him needing remedial classes in new school too?

Given he failed, Yuu didn't catch up before the exam. Then he fell into a very intense and distracting romantic relationship right at the start of school, further hindering catching up.

Well, doesn't that mean it's not about levels then, even from Yuu's perspective?

Yuu's thinking is that the prerequisite for Hikari considering him as a potential romantic partner is that he first reaches her level such that he's standing besides her.

Because that can lead to questions like "how could you tell?",

"Same way I noticed you were starting to send me signals" - which the acknowledgement he started picking up signals implies the existence of the no signals state. Also "because you tried to set me up w/ other girls" is a valid and less vulnerable answer than "b/c I thought I wasn't good enough".

The thing I keep going back to is why Yuu would want Hikari to think Yuu thinks he's out of her league if Yuu doesn't actually believe it.

"if we go to different schools, we will start growing apart" (and, again, nothing about jealousy).

Yeah, b/c Yuu thought the sheer choice of going to a different school was a rejection & now it's the exam that's the make or break. That's consistent with Yuu thinking the relationship is over b/c of the school, nevermind the guys there.

 

[GennArc]

So my bias is that I went to a (test into) elite high school & the folks at the top of the class worked crazy hard and Hikari is described as a hard worker.

My bias is that I was at the top of the class without much effort, though it was a normal school. Then in a (high level) uni I had to put in much more effort to keep up and was kind of middle-to-high, but among the top of our year I saw cases of people working extra hard and of people just being really good at it.
To me it feels like Hikari had enough natural talent to not struggle too much in middle school (which doesn't seem to be an elite one).

Given he failed, Yuu didn't catch up before the exam. Then he fell into a very intense and distracting romantic relationship right at the start of school, further hindering catching up.

He didn't catch up to Hikari's new school level, but his new school's requirements aren't that high.
And I don't think the relationship was that distracting, because it sounded like they were mostly meeting on weekends:

"Sorry, Yuu, but next week's looking pretty packed too."
"You seem busy. Don't tell me... you're finally going back to school?"
"Shut up."

-snip-

"Still, that's two weekends in a row you've been unavailable. What's going on?"
"Huh? What's this, Yuu? You miss me? Feeling lonely?"

Yuu's thinking is that the prerequisite for Hikari considering him as a potential romantic partner is that he first reaches her level such that he's standing besides her.

So that means she can only choose him (because he is a beloved childhood friend) but only once he levels up?

"Same way I noticed you were starting to send me signals" - which the acknowledgement he started picking up signals implies the existence of the no signals state.

It's not like he had a foreknowledge of what mixed signals are supposed to look like. He doesn't know if signals are being sent or not until he recognises them as ones.

The thing I keep going back to is why Yuu would want Hikari to think Yuu thinks he's out of her league if Yuu doesn't actually believe it.

And I keep replying that he wants to avoid uncomfortable topics where he'd need to tell a lot of his private stuff. This

"because you tried to set me up w/ other girls"

is one of the examples, it would sound like he is blaming her.

That's consistent with Yuu thinking the relationship is over b/c of the school

But it's not over, it will just start changing for the worse according to his own words. And since it will still exist, he would be hurt by the hypothetical high level dude coming to Hikari's life.

 

[story645]

but among the top of our year I saw cases of people working extra hard and of people just being really good at it.

So a thing I've learned about a lot of the "really good at it" people is a lot of them have already been exposed to the material/have a really solid foundation - saying this both as a student and a teacher. Like even the super talented folks work really hard at refining their talents.

Which, Hikari's narrative is that she's getting up early to prep for school & staying up later than Yuu to study for the material taught at their middle school. Nothing in the text indicates she abandoned those habits when she goes to a harder high school.

ETA: but also I think this goes back into the thematic discussion on perspective.

but his new school's requirements aren't that high.

Yuu says they're "Way harder than I expected." and he's coming in as an at best middle of the pack student. In his POV chapter, the material Hikari is helping him with is the same that's tripping up Aya.

ETA: I also think this is supposed to clue in that Yuu's going to a relatively high level/hard school:

After all the drama, Yuu managed to get into a public high school. He takes a train and walks for nearly an hour each way, rain or shine.

B/c Japanese public schools tend to be highly ranked and he's going through all this trouble to commute rather than going somewhere closer but probably less good.

Relationships can also be distracting even if you're not physically meeting between texting, phone calls, and thinking/daydreaming about the person.

So that means she can only choose him (because he is a beloved childhood friend) but only once he levels up?

Not only choose him, but that once he gets to her side she'll decide he's the one she wants there.

He doesn't know if signals are being sent or not until he recognises them as ones.

It's exactly that b/c otherwise how could he decide that he was rejected w/o ever confessing?

where he'd need to tell a lot of his private stuff

The private stuff all being things Hikari did publically - choosing to go to a different school, setting him up with other girls, not getting flustered about the love letter. Hikari was a participant in these events - he'd just be explaining how he interpreted them. Which, how is that any more uncomfortable or blaming her than "I feel out of your league"?

And since it will still exist, he would be hurt by the hypothetical high level dude coming to Hikari's life.

Hypothetical dude doesn't even exist in Yuu's hypothetical yet b/c Yuu isn't thinking past the exam.

 

[peortega1]

It's exactly that b/c otherwise how could he decide that he was rejected w/o ever confessing?

Because he never decided it. Ayami did it for him.

The private stuff all being things Hikari did publically - choosing to go to a different school, setting him up with other girls, not getting flustered about the love letter. Hikari was a participant in these events - he'd just be explaining how he interpreted them. Which, how is that any more uncomfortable or blaming her than "I feel out of your league"?

Exactly.
We know how Hikari acts when you show before her things who are public but she was not fully aware from its meaning (for example, Yuu omake chapter 5 when he criticizes her because Hikari didn´t bother for Yuu academic future in middle school). Hikari definitely was not aware how she hurted Yuu when she tried to setting him up with other girls. Again, part of her arc in the first chapters is precisely she recognizing she was selfish with Yuu, over all chapter 17 when she reacts to the realisation of the failed exam of Yuu.
And again, this guy is Yuu Izumi. He always will blame first to himself than to other people, Haruki Kitahara was very similar.
But if Yuu has an inferiority complex, undoubtely Hikari feeded it unawarely.

 

[GennArc]

So a thing I've learned about a lot of the "really good at it" people is a lot of them have already been exposed to the material/have a really solid foundation

It's definitely a thing for freshmen, but then the exposure to the material stops playing as large of a role and you still see the difference.
And for school, eh, I don't think it matters that much.

B/c Japanese public schools tend to be highly ranked and he's going through all this trouble to commute rather than going somewhere closer but probably less good.

I might not be the most knowledgeable about this topic, but I think this applies to their universities, not to schools. Public universities are indeed highly ranked, but for schools I had an impression private ones tend to be more prestigious. And that kinda makes sense: every child should have a school education, so public schools (as cheaper ones) should be available to everyone including low income families, while universities and colleges aren't mandatory, so it makes sense to have only the best performing students to enroll in public ones.

Relationships can also be distracting even if you're not physically meeting between texting, phone calls, and thinking/daydreaming about the person.

Fair enough. But we're still talking about school material here. It's not that hard to keep up. I can see why Yami struggles, because skipping for a long time takes a toll (though it still means she is the type who needs to work hard to be at the top like she was in her middle school). But Yuu attends diligently. That alone should be sufficient to not need remedial classes if your abilities are "middle of the pack".

Not only choose him, but that once he gets to her side she'll decide he's the one she wants there.

But that again contradicts his thoughts, he still thinks he will make her recognise him as a boy, but that she might still not accept the confession.

It's exactly that b/c otherwise how could he decide that he was rejected w/o ever confessing?

And that's the talk he wants to avoid.

The private stuff all being things Hikari did publically

I didn't mean just Hikari: he'd have to tell how he used that opportunity which his friend created when they were young, about his own heartbreaks etc. And no, I'm sure even sounding like he's blaming Hikari is miles more uncomfortable than just going with his usual line of "you're out of my league", he does have a low self-esteem so saying lines like this doesn't really hurt.

 

[story645]

but then the exposure to the material stops playing as large of a role and you still see the difference.

I think a lot of that is personality - are you the type that leans into how physicists think vs. humanists? Selection bias and all - classes that are taught in a way that aligns with how you learn/think about the world are easier.

Yes absolutely some folks are more talented, but I don't think that's what'a happening here. Yuu thinks about how he's less motivated to study than Hikari and not studying hard enough and not putting in effort & he also managed to get into a good school by putting in some effort.

every child should have a school education, so public schools (as cheaper ones) should be available to everyone including low income families,

High school isn't compulsory in Japan & is competitive exam based while private schools can have looser guidelines. From what I've been reading, in effect it's similar to what's going on in the college level, but my primary source is an old reddit thread.

But Yuu attends diligently. That alone should be sufficient to not need remedial classes if your abilities are "middle of the pack".

Depends? If your foundation in algebra is shoddy, no amount of sitting in a geometry class is gonna help. May even make things worse by making things more confusing/overwhelming. There's this theory in learning research where once you build an incorrect schema (roughly conceptualization), you've first gotta unwind/unpack it before you try to correct it. Otherwise the new stuff gets built on the bad foundation & it's a mess.

he still thinks he will make her recognise him as a boy, but that she might still not accept the confession.

Sure, but he hopes that she will. He doesn't even consider confessing though until he first reaches her side. Says otherwise he would have back when he first realized he was crushing on her.

he does have a low self-esteem s

So maybe he's being honest about feeling like she's out of his league?

I'm sure even sounding like he's blaming Hikari is miles more uncomfortable

If anything, "you're out of my league" is miles more frustrating b/c there's nothing Hikari could do about it. The other stuff at least she can understand how she contributed to the situation.

 

[peortega1]

If anything, "you're out of my league" is miles more frustrating b/c there's nothing Hikari could do about it. The other stuff at least she can understand how she contributed to the situation.

In other context, maybe. In the context where everyone (included Hikari herself) recognizes Hikari didn´t love Yuu in middle school... yes, definitely is much less frustrating than "you sent me to the friendzone in middle school"
Again, you are ignoring deliberately the scene where Hikari recognizes she didn´t care Yuu academical future in the transition to hich school, is her way to recognize before him that he was right, she didn´t even see him as a boy in that moment.
And that scene where Hikari denies to give a reason about her current preocupation for Yuu future and just says "now is different" leaves very clear Hikari is not the type of people who likes hear "you brotherzoned me".
"You are out of my league" is probably more tolerable for her.
Again, she is aware that she friendzoned Yuu. She at least already suspected he tried to forget her and he failed in the attempt. Her bothering is because the ex girlfriend of Yuu ended being "Aya-chan", not more.

 

[peortega1]

Anyway, Hikari could be really out of his league and still could do something about it. But you doesn´t like the response even if Yami already said it.
Again: role reversal, role reversal, role reversal...
The message of Maruto has been always pro-woman who takes the lead. All the winner Maruto heroines shares this feature, including alternative routes.
This is the reason why Eriri never won in any possible timeline. All the winner Maruto heroines are, in a way or other, the boyfriend of her relationship.

 

[GennArc]

I think a lot of that is personality - are you the type that leans into how physicists think vs. humanists? Selection bias and all - classes that are taught in a way that aligns with how you learn/think about the world are easier.

I don't think it's a matter of humanities or science. Exposure to the material usually works when someone just enrolls in a new institution: from middle school to high school, from high school to uni etc. Then it really depends on their background and all. After a couple of years it usually stops playing a role since 99% of the new material is an unknown territory for everyone.

Yuu thinks about how he's less motivated to study than Hikari and not studying hard enough and not putting in effort & he also managed to get into a good school by putting in some effort.

Not how I interpret it. I don't remember him saying anything about being less motivated, it's just that the realization that he should've put in much more effort because the school he aimed for was out of his league - that realization hit him too late.
As for how good his school is, you are probably right, especially after I read that linked thread. But then again, it's clearly not on Hikari's HS level, he says as much to both her and Yami.

Depends? If your foundation in algebra is shoddy, no amount of sitting in a geometry class is gonna help.

Then he wouldn't be in a middle of the pack. Come on, you proved yourself that he managed to enroll in a good school, how could his foundations be so weak then? He definitely would've needed them strong enough to successfully hold the exam.

Sure, but he hopes that she will. He doesn't even consider confessing though until he first reaches her side. Says otherwise he would have back when he first realized he was crushing on her.

I mean, yes, he opts to go for the confession when he thinks he at least has a chance vs. no chance at all.

If anything, "you're out of my league" is miles more frustrating b/c there's nothing Hikari could do about it. The other stuff at least she can understand how she contributed to the situation.

Sorry, I should've written this sooner: he is not saying it for Hikari's sake. He's saying it for his own sake. Blaming Hikari would've hurt his pride much more than saying some self-deprecating words he's already used to saying.

 

[Mrson]

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