Imasara desu ga, Osananajimi wo Suki ni Natte Shimaimashita - Ch. 43 - The Pride of the Lecturing Girls

[peortega1]

I will post two or three pages of the new extra chapter in Spanish. Also, IMO this chapter reinforces my thesis of Ayami being an Expy of Ai Kamiya from Shikimori-san, and sharing basically the same background of a popular cool girl, admired by everyone but without real friends, lonely and isolated
And of course, an already dark emo girl with edgy thoughts
In other words, she probably would have fall in love with Yuu even without the abussive step-father, like Kamiya did with Izumi, and for the same reasons. The attempt of rape was just the way Maruto used to make them a couple and have sex so ridicuously fast
And again, these are communication problems the main problem of both Ayami and Kamiya personalities and the reason behind her problems to interact with other people

 

[peortega1]

Spoiler: Page 1

Spoiler: Page 4

Spoiler: Page 7

 

[story645]

That's fair, but the difference is that at school you more or less consistently keep using the knowledge acquired before

Seems like Yuu wouldn't have been using the material he learned for the exam in class the month or so between exams and school starting, and that's enough time for it to fall out of his head. Especially if it's a subject he didn't score spectacularly well on in the entrance exam.

Eh? Where does this come from?

For me, Yuu's previous thought

If I manage to get into the same high school as her, even someone as oblivious as Hikari is bound to realize.
...That I’ve been chasing after her all this time.

If he's confessing than it shouldn't matter if she realizes he likes her b/c the confession should do the trick. So I take this to mean he wants Hikari to finally look at him/see him, playing off his previous POV chapters where Hikari's "rejections" are her not recognizing he's in love w/ her. Also b/c the thing that finally causes Yuu to make a move is Hikari being proactive.

But if he went "I saw that you didn't care about me at all",

That'd contradict him saying he wasn't sure if it was that kind of feeling. Which start of this convo establishes mixed signals, so he could have just gone straight to her weird sense of distance.

Hikari: "You thought I wasn’t thinking about you at all, Ta-kun?"
Yuu: "I didn’t think it was nothing, but... I wasn’t sure if it was that kind of feeling."
Hikari: "Come on! Ta-kun, seriously, you have no confidence!"
Yuu: "But it’s you, Hikari! Do you really think I'm good enough for you!?"
Hikari: "I do!"
Yuu: "That’s just you being mistaken! No one knows how amazing you are better than I do!"

ETA: feel like I should admit I kinda get where your argument comes from, but in a Hikari being too good for him is the excuse Yuu hides behind for not gathering the courage to ask her out/face rejection. Though that means it's still a thing he believes on some level.

I'm mostly keeping this convo going b/c I find it amusing that usually you express exasperation when I go meta but here you're arguing that Yuu is lying when he explicitly tells Hikari he's telling the truth.

 

[GennArc]

If he's confessing than it shouldn't matter if she realizes he likes her b/c the confession should do the trick.

It matters because he wanted her to see him as a boy, not just as a friend. If the confession comes from just-a-friend, it's still hopeless.

That'd contradict him saying he wasn't sure if it was that kind of feeling.

That was him talking about the last year, while "I saw that you didn't care about me at all" would be about how it used to be in middle school. So I don't think there'd be any contradiction.

I'm mostly keeping this convo going b/c I find it amusing that usually you express exasperation when I go meta but here you're arguing that Yuu is lying when he explicitly tells Hikari he's telling the truth.

This isn't really meta because we're still talking about characters and their thoughts, not about narratives and what the author wanted to show.
But I admit this is where I'm on a shaky ground since it's mostly based on indirect arguments, not on explicit words or thoughts. On the other hand, I can't agree that we can rely on Yuu saying that he was telling the truth. Not in the dialogue where he gets accused of lying and where we know he was hiding a lot of stuff.

 

[story645]

Not in the dialogue where he gets accused of lying and where we know he was hiding a lot of stuff.

Yuu's characterization though is that he's generally evasive rather- the only direct lie we know about is going to the hotel w/ Aya & that makes sense in context.

To me it reads as out of character for him to acknowledge that he's hiding stuff while also lying so emphatically about telling the truth:

"Look, I might not have told you everything I feel, but what I just said... every word of it was true."

If the confession comes from just-a-friend, it's still hopeless.

So long as she doesn't like him, it's a confession from just a friend whether she realizes he likes her or not. That's why I think he was hoping the exam would lead to reciprocation.

So I don't think there'd be any contradiction.

It would be though b/c Hikari's comment about confidence (the one he's responding to) is in response to his wasn't sure. Where do you get that she's changing the time frame w/ her "lack confidence?"

 

[iamsean]

Came to read everybody's thoughts. Ended up seeing some of you spend over a week sperg in here. God I love this series, brings out the degens.

 

[GennArc]

Yuu's characterization though is that he's generally evasive rather- the only direct lie we know about is going to the hotel w/ Aya & that makes sense in context.

What about him saying that his phone battery died? Or him straight up denying that he likes Hikari when asked by Yami in famires in ch. 23? He’s not as habitual a liar as Yami, but he does lie occasionally.

So long as she doesn't like him, it's a confession from just a friend whether she realizes he likes her or not.

Recognizing him as a boy makes a difference. Like, if she still doesn't think of him as of a boy, that would mean she still wouldn't even consider him as someone she could be attracted to.

That's why I think he was hoping the exam would lead to reciprocation.

Once you phrase it like this, I agree. Of course he hoped she would reciprocate. But I disagree that he had confidence she would, and that he viewed the exam as a way to "get on her level".

It would be though b/c Hikari's comment about confidence (the one he's responding to) is in response to his wasn't sure. Where do you get that she's changing the time frame w/ her "lack confidence?"

I thought we were talking about the hypothetical where he'd tell her about why he didn't confess in the past:

I didn't mean just Hikari: he'd have to tell how he used that opportunity which his friend created when they were young, about his own heartbreaks etc. And no, I'm sure even sounding like he's blaming Hikari is miles more uncomfortable than just going with his usual line of "you're out of my league", he does have a low self-esteem so saying lines like this doesn't really hurt.

Maybe we've just dived too deep into this topic and got lost.

Came to read everybody's thoughts. Ended up seeing some of you spend over a week sperg in here. God I love this series, brings out the degens.

Over a week? More like over 3 weeks mate. You're welcome.

 

[story645]

What about him saying that his phone battery died? Or him straight up denying that he likes Hikari when asked by Yami in famires in ch. 23?

Those are both reactive/deflecting: He then spills into a list of excuses & he doesn't challenge Aya's immediate challenge of it. Which yeah, I think you're arguing Yuu is also trying to do w/ the "inadequate", but the marked difference is Yuu initiates the conversation in 17. Hikari makes a note of how he's been stressing over it for 6hrs and he's going the extra step of insisting he's not lying. And nothing in Hikari's POV indicates she thinks he's lying.

I thought we were talking about the hypothetical where he'd tell her about why he didn't confess in the past

I think we were discussing that hypothetical b/c of the claim that Yuu said "I was inadequate" to get out of going in details of the past. What I'm saying here though is that nothing in Hikari's statement about Yuu's lack of confidence - which is what Yuu's replying to when saying he's inadequate - imply she's talking about any specific period of time.

and that he viewed the exam as a way to "get on her level".

That's what "getting her to see him as a boy" is about - her seeing him as peer rather than little brother.

Ended up seeing some of you spend over a week sperg in here.

🤷‍♀️

 

[peortega1]

Those are both reactive/deflecting: He then spills into a list of excuses & he doesn't challenge Aya's immediate challenge of it.

For once, I´m agree with you. He is evasive, but he never lies directly. And as I said you, Hikari is evasive too (like the time Yuu criticized her by her disinterest on the academical future of Yuu in the chapter 5 of his omake PoV), is a personality feature shared by both.
His only big lie is going to the hotel with Yami with chapters 24 and 28... and in both cases, is very notorious the lie was an idea from Yami, not from him. He just obeyed the orders of her dommy girlfriend.

That's what "getting her to see him as a boy" is about - her seeing him as peer rather than little brother.

Because he detected correctly Hikari didn´t want be the dominatrix girlfriend of nobody, she doesn´t want the active member ("the boyfriend") of the relationship, this is the reason why Hikari sent unawarely Yuu to brotherzone
And he realized he had to be more active and "masculine" to be able to make Hikari interested on him.
And this is the reason why he feels so attracted for Ayami from the minute one they met,and he still calls her "Yami-SENPAI" when she lost the right to the title -and is the reason why Hikari and her friends never use it- a few days after their first time, when Yuu approved the public school exam and Yami formally repeated 1st year
Yami loves dominate him and Yuu loves be dominated by her. Like Haruki and Kazusa, Izumi and Kamiya

 

[GennArc]

but the marked difference is Yuu initiates the conversation in 17. Hikari makes a note of how he's been stressing over it for 6hrs and he's going the extra step of insisting he's not lying. And nothing in Hikari's POV indicates she thinks he's lying.

He initiates the conversation about the dead battery too. And Hikari only recognizes he's lying because she knows the facts.

What I'm saying here though is that nothing in Hikari's statement about Yuu's lack of confidence - which is what Yuu's replying to when saying he's inadequate - imply she's talking about any specific period of time.

Okay, so here's the quote for the context:

Hikari: "You thought I wasn’t thinking about you at all, Ta-kun?"
Yuu: "I didn’t think it was nothing, but... I wasn’t sure if it was that kind of feeling."
Hikari: "Come on! Ta-kun, seriously, you have no confidence!"
Yuu: "But it’s you, Hikari! Do you really think I'm good enough for you!?"
Hikari: "I do!"
Yuu: "That’s just you being mistaken! No one knows how amazing you are better than I do!"

What you're saying about him hypothetically going "I saw that you didn't care about me at all"

That'd contradict him saying he wasn't sure if it was that kind of feeling.

But from his perspective there's no contradiction: he knows she didn't care about him at all until one year before, and then he was unsure if it was that kind of feeling from her because she started acting differently.
If he were to answer honestly, he'd say "I knew you didn't give a flying about me until one year ago, and then I was not sure because your behavior changed". He wants to avoid going into details about the first part for reasons I mentioned above.
So the contradiction you're talking about would only have happened if he first decided to hide that part but then suddenly switched over to being completely honest.

That's what "getting her to see him as a boy" is about - her seeing him as peer rather than little brother.

That's not about "levels" at all. You said it yourself AFAIR - she didn't think about love matters at all (and he knew it, hence why he wasn't worried about other boys), but he hoped that the surprise of discovering him seriously pursuing her and doing "the impossible" for her will make her realise for the first time that he is not just a little brother. She might still not reciprocate, but she will realise he is more mature than she thought he is and that he's truly serious about her.

 

[story645]

He initiates the conversation about the dead battery too

By saying Hikari?

Yuu: "Hikari..."
Hikari: "......"

Hikari: "Then, why didn’t you check LINE?"
Yuu: "Actually, um... my phone died..."

I think the "um..." And Hikari flagging it as excuses indicate he came up w/ this on the spot. If Yuu had planned the lie, he'd have probably also flagged the "read" notification that alerted Hikari to the lie.

If he were to answer honestly, he'd say "I knew you didn't give a flying about me until one year ago, and then I was not sure because your behavior changed".

A version of this back and forth happens in the next block, with Hikari bringing up the change in behavior:

Hikari: "But, but! Lately I’ve been super obvious about how much I liked you, haven’t I?!"
Yuu: "How was I supposed to believe that! You’re naturally way too close to people! You’ve made me think the wrong thing so many times before!"
Hikari: "That's so mean!"

Which here Yuu is also kinda blaming Hikari with the "you've made me think" and opening up the door to the prying "how? what things?" that you argue he was trying to avoid by saying he was inadequate.

and doing "the impossible" for her will make her realise for the first time

My point is that the reason "the impossible" thing has to be the exam is b/c it's the event where achievement puts him next to her (at her new school).

 

[GennArc]

By saying Hikari?

I think the "um..." And Hikari flagging it as excuses indicate he came up w/ this on the spot. If Yuu had planned the lie, he'd have probably also flagged the "read" notification that alerted Hikari to the lie.

Yes? He still initiates the conversation and feels the need to come up with excuses.

Which here Yuu is also kinda blaming Hikari with the "you've made me think" and opening up the door to the prying "how? what things?" that you argue he was trying to avoid by saying he was inadequate.

Because that includes any misunderstandings they had, not just his romantic interest. And we kinda know she never made him think wrong things about his romantic prospects.

My point is that the reason "the impossible" thing has to be the exam is b/c it's the event where achievement puts him next to her (at her new school).

No, it is the exam because:
1. If he passes, they will not go separate ways and be together again.
2. It's "impossible" because he is not expected to pass.
And the whole idea with the exam is initiated by him thinking about the first point, not the second one:

Why didn’t I realize it sooner...?
That there was no reason for Hikari to purposely choose a public school that someone like me could get into.

That once we graduated from middle school, our relationship would inevitably change.
And probably not for the better.
...In other words, in the worst way possible.

Yuu: "I don’t want that..."

When was it that I first said those words out loud?

Was it that night, in the bath, after the conference?
Or maybe the next morning, on the walk to school?
Or was it when I saw Hikari laughing with her friends in the hallway?

Either way, just a few days after that parent-teacher-student meeting, I made up my mind.
To apply to the same high school as Hikari—a reckless decision.

 

[story645]

He still initiates the conversation and feels the need to come up with excuses.

Was he supposed to just walk away? She found him in the hallway, one of them would have had to say something - which he doesn't proactively start w/ the excuses, Hikari asks first.

There's no confrontation in the first confession chapter. Hikari doesn't ask about the exam at all - even when he tells her about it, what she'd been hoping for was a confession. Which right, Hikari learning he took the exam was enough to clue her in that he maybe liked her, him hiding it unless he passed was his own insecurities at play.

Because that includes any misunderstandings they had, not just his romantic interest

What implies Yuu was speaking broadly when Hikari was explicitly talking about romantic interest?

Hikari: "But, but! Lately I’ve been super obvious about how much I liked you, haven’t I?!"

If he passes, they will not go separate ways and be together again.

They were distant despite going to the same middle school and live next door to each other.

Even the part you quoted starts with the 'by her side' theme & that Yuu feels he needs to do something to get there.

…………

I met Hikari—and fell in love with her...
Ever since then, I’d always wanted to stand by her side.

And yet, I didn’t put in the effort to make that happen...
Or rather, I never even seriously thought about what I’d need to do to stand beside Hikari in the first place.

Why didn’t I realize it sooner...?

Which aligns with Yuu telling the truth when he says in 17 that he took the exam to catch up to her.

 

[GennArc]

Was he supposed to just walk away? She found him in the hallway, one of them would have had to say something - which he doesn't proactively start w/ the excuses, Hikari asks first.

He'd have to explain why he wasn't there anyway. He'd have to initiate that conversation.

There's no confrontation in the first confession chapter.

But there is. Back then his friend just spilled the truth about him trying to enroll in her school, of course he'd have to explain that.

What implies Yuu was speaking broadly when Hikari was explicitly talking about romantic interest?

This:

And we kinda know she never made him think wrong things about his romantic prospects.

They were distant despite going to the same middle school and live next door to each other.

Even the part you quoted starts with the 'by her side' theme & that Yuu feels he needs to do something to get there.

I am merely quoting his words. HE thinks that they'd grow distant if they go separate ways.

 

[story645]

He'd have to explain why he wasn't there anyway. He'd have to initiate that conversation.

That's my point - he was lying/making excuses reactively b/c he was on the spot, where in 17 he wasn't on the spot. It was six hours later & Hikari hadn't brought it up.

This:

And we kinda know she never made him think wrong things about his romantic prospects.

Just to reset, here's the whole convo we've been arguing about:

Hikari: "You thought I wasn’t thinking about you at all, Ta-kun?"
Yuu: "I didn’t think it was nothing, but... I wasn’t sure if it was that kind of feeling."
Hikari: "Come on! Ta-kun, seriously, you have no confidence!"
Yuu: "But it’s you, Hikari! Do you really think I'm good enough for you!?"
Hikari: "I do!"
Yuu: "That’s just you being mistaken! No one knows how amazing you are better than I do!"

I feel like a boomerang just keeps smacking me right in the head.
What is with this coward!
It’s so painful, like watching all my own embarrassing behavior from the past six months!

Hikari: "But, but! Lately I’ve been super obvious about how much I liked you, haven’t I?!"
Yuu: "How was I supposed to believe that! You’re naturally way too close to people! You’ve made me think the wrong thing so many times before!"
Hikari: "That's so mean!"

As far as I can tell, you're arguing that Yuu's line about being inadequate is a mask so that he can avoid saying what I basically think he's saying at the end of this convo. I also don't understand what you're seeing in this convo to indicate that they're not both talking about romantic feelings.

HE thinks that they'd grow distant if they go separate ways.

I think b/c it'd exacerbate what he feels is their difference in status:

That there was no reason for Hikari to purposely choose a public school that someone like me could get into.

The conversation is contextualized in language about how he's less than, "someone like me" being classic Japanese self-deprecation.

 

[EijiRin]

I take it there is a Spanish translation somewhere already?
@EijiRin, sorry to ping you, are you planning to translate that new extra?

Yeah, I'll probably upload it tomorrow.

 

[GennArc]

That's my point - he was lying/making excuses reactively b/c he was on the spot, where in 17 he wasn't on the spot. It was six hours later & Hikari hadn't brought it up.

The explanation getting postponed doesn't mean he wasn't expected to do it. It's absolutely the same situation except he got more time to think it through.

As far as I can tell, you're arguing that Yuu's line about being inadequate is a mask so that he can avoid saying what I basically think he's saying at the end of this convo.

At the end of this conversation they're talking about the last year (because she says the line about recently). What he doesn't want to explain is about all the years before she actually started liking him:

"What did he do before she started sending him mixed signals", "how did he probe her reactions before" etc.

I also don't understand what you're seeing in this convo to indicate that they're not both talking about romantic feelings.

I told you already, we happen to know the context and his thoughts on the matter. We know that he always saw the situation as hopeless because it was clear as day she didn't like him.
So there are two options what he could mean with that last "You’ve made me think the wrong thing so many times before!":
1. He was talking about all kinds of misunderstandings
2. He was lying about her making him think wrong things in romantic sense before.
Which is it in your opinion?

The conversation is contextualized in language about how he's less than, "someone like me" being classic Japanese self-deprecation.

That there was no reason for Hikari to purposely choose a public school that someone like me could get into.

"I'm not academically fit to enroll in the school Hikari goes for, and she'd not purposely choose a school which I'd be able to enter."
If the "status" you're talking about is just academic abilities, then yes, I agree. Which is basically a double talk - them having different "academic statuses" is equal to them attending different schools and growing distant because of it.

 

[story645]

The explanation getting postponed doesn't mean he wasn't expected to do it.

So? Yuu's been evasive on stuff he doesn't want to talk about & Hikari gave him an out here by not bringing it up.

What he doesn't want to explain is about all the years before she actually started liking him:

He's doing that by saying that
"You’ve made me think the wrong thing so many times before!" is the reason he doesn't trust her recent behavior changes. Otherwise what's the before he's talking about?

He was lying about her making him think wrong things in romantic sense before.

3. He had hopes that she liked him back b/c of how close they were (sense of distance) and that's why he was so crushed/rejected when she did things that showed she wasn't interested.

I wonder at the translation being misunderstandings & it not referring to the instances in his POV where he felt disappointed/blindsided by her actions - her recognizing that the note wasn't from him, her choosing a different school.

Which is basically a double talk - them having different "academic statuses" is equal to them attending different schools and growing distant because of it.

The distinction here is Yuu is thinks that their academic differences are why he can't catch Hikari's eye.[/b][/b]

 

[GennArc]

So? Yuu's been evasive on stuff he doesn't want to talk about & Hikari gave him an out here by not bringing it up.

How does her not bringing up negate that he is expected to do it? It's the elephant in the room, he will have to explain it no matter what.
It's the same as in chapter 36:

Yuu: "Hikari..."
Hikari: "......"

Hikari: "Then, why didn’t you check LINE?"
Yuu: "Actually, um... my phone died..."

As if he could see right through my thoughts, he started making excuses for all the times we’d missed each other, even though I hadn’t asked.

She didn't ask him, but he started making excuses anyway.

"You’ve made me think the wrong thing so many times before!" is the reason he doesn't trust her recent behavior changes.

Okay, and what was he doing for all those years when he was in love with her?

3. He had hopes that she liked him back b/c of how close they were (sense of distance) and that's why he was so crushed/rejected when she did things that showed she wasn't interested.

The full quote would be too big, but if you reread POV chapters 2 and 3, you'll see that he saw it as hopeless almost from the moment he realized he was in love to the moment he decided to take the exam.

From that day on, the distance between Hikari and me went back to the way it used to be.
The kind of distance where we could come and go from each other’s rooms freely,
and no one thought twice about it.

Just two childhood friends.

And that day—
was the day I experienced my first heartbreak.

So this 3rd option is not a real one. Which brings us back to those two I mentioned.

I wonder at the translation being misunderstandings & it not referring to the instances in his POV where he felt disappointed/blindsided by her actions - her recognizing that the note wasn't from him, her choosing a different school.

The existing line kinda makes sense in context of him mentioning her weird sense of distance. But I can't say for sure.

The distinction here is Yuu is thinks that their academic differences are why he can't catch Hikari's eye.

No, he doesn't. His decision to take the exam comes the moment he realises they are gonna go separate ways.

 

[story645]

It's the elephant in the room, he will have to explain it no matter what.

His relationship with Aya is even more of an elephant, but he's evasive every time it comes up & outright doesn't say anything even knowing Hikari saw. "Elephant in the room" is very much not a motivating factor for Yuu.

She didn't ask him, but he started making excuses anyway.

Excuses that were piling onto his first excuse of his phone being dead, and that he was giving to avoid the elephant in the room that was Aya.

His decision to take the exam comes the moment he realises they are gonna go separate ways.

If it was just about her going to a different school, there wouldn't be the emphasis on it being a school that's out of his reach.

Okay, and what was he doing for all those years when he was in love with her?

Making no effort to court her while hoping she was so in love with him she'd want the love letter to be from him & would choose a school he could get into despite her being able to do so much better.

Which right those beliefs and that crushing disappointment are the death of his hopes, which means on some level deep down he had hope:

Because the truth is, deep down…
there was a part of me that wanted to lean on Kosuke-kun’s pure goodwill. Or his meddling. Or his cruel little prank—whatever it really was.

If Hikari had been happy to get that letter, I would’ve claimed it was a true expression of my feelings.

He doesn't expect it to be successful but he also doesn't think success is completely impossible.