Imasara desuga, Osananajimi o Suki ni Natteshimaimashita - Ch. 49 - An Astronomical Inevitability

[GennArc]

That's the thing though, if she's really selflessly giving everything up for her mom than there is no loophole.

In the ideal world where everyone enjoys doing "the right thing" - sure. But unlike that ideal world, what she believes to be the right thing is not the same as the thing she really wants to do, that's why she hopelessly tried to find that loophole that would make them both possible at the same time.

but she mentions her in the lead up & thinks Yuu is in love w/ her back when she figures out Yuu is Hikari's crush

She has her reasons to think that, see chapter 13.5.
I already said why I think she didn't try to get back together with Yuu. I don't think that had anything to do with the yet unknown childhood friend pre ch. 11/Hikari.

Aya and Hikari are having parallel feelings - Aya thinks Yuu's love for Hikari means he can't commit deeply to her (Aya), while Hikari questions if Yuu can love her (Hikari) if he's in love with Aya.

I think this is likely true, but only for post-festival chapters. I don't think Yami used to doubt Yuu's commitment because of Hikari. But we discussed this a lot before, probably no need to repeat that.

But also, admittedly, this is probably the better example of her initiative:

Yeah, I won't argue here. I really get why Yuu wouldn't bring it up himself (out of consideration first and foremost), but that doesn't change the fact that she took the initiative in that situation.

 

[story645]

she believes to be the right thing is not the same as the thing she really wants to do, that's why she hopelessly tried to find that loophole

The language she's using in the fireworks chapter and the crash out indicates she's sad/frustrated/mad at Yuu that he didn't "stretch out his hand", so no don't think she thought it was hopeless. She spent the whole relationship treating Yuu as an escape from her life & her mom's suicide attempt made that impossible and Yuu said no to continuing the escape so she wrapped her decision to ghost (rather then bring him into her world) as some noble sacrifice.

She uses a lot of the same guilt/betrayel language/imagery in these past few chapters to justify her running away from Hikari/Yuu, but somehow it's not enough to motivate her to stop doing things that she knows will hurt Hikari, even though Hikari hasn't asked her to give up Yuu.

I don't think that had anything to do with the yet unknown childhood friend

We've gone around this in so many circles but she's always, since one of the episodes right after they slept together, been somewhat jealous of "Yuu's dream girl". I think it's always contributed to her underlying insecurity with the relationship.

 

[GennArc]

The language she's using in the fireworks chapter and the crash out indicates she's sad/frustrated/mad at Yuu

Frustrated? Mad? There is absolutely nothing like that in the fireworks chapter.

so she wrapped her decision to ghost (rather then bring him into her world) as some noble sacrifice.

Quote?

We've gone around this in so many circles but she's always, since one of the episodes right after they slept together, been somewhat jealous of "Yuu's dream girl".

Since we've discussed this so many times, I only have to remind you that she never mentions Yuu's dream girl after chapter 26 and until that 13.5, not in her thoughts, not in words, never. There's nothing indicating that she's "always" been jealous.

 

[story645]

There is absolutely nothing like that in the fireworks chapter.

Maybe mad/frustrated isn't exactly the right language, but I took this as expressing a wish for a Yuu that's more proactive:

Ayami: "Geez, you really don't get it, do you?"

Not one single thing...
You don't understand anything...

Like I'd turn you down just because I hate crowds.

If Yuu was the one inviting me, I'd go anywhere -- even into the summer's sweltering, chaotic crowds.
If Yuu reached out his hand to me, there'd be nothing I couldn't endure.

never mentions Yuu's dream girl after chapter 26 and until that 13.5, not in her thoughts, not in words, never.

What would be the characterization reason be to do so? I think Maruto pretty clearly spells out her jealousy/resentment between:

• Thinking of Yuu's dream girl right after they slept together
• Snarking at Yuu "Did you want to go to school with her that badly?" (Her thoughts were that she wasn't joking b/c this is a thought Yuu had to pacify)
• being 99% sure he's (still) in love w/ Hikari despite not having seen him for a year explicitly b/c of the way he talked about Hikari while they were dating
• Asking if he kept her a secret from Hikari being basically the first thing she asks him after meeting him for the first time in a year
• Asking if Hikari is why he gave her his number in this chapter

I think Hikari isn't coming up in 27-31 mostly b/c those chapters are focused on Yuu as escape from home life and then the story Aya is telling herself of how this is noble sacrifice. Hikari would be a digression here, but she's entwined w/ Aya's thoughts on the relationship since 13.5 comes right after the break up in publication order.

Quote?

That it's some noble sacrifice type thing:

It was then that I understood, this is my punishment.
Punishment for trying to abandon my family, a sin so immense that I could never atone for it in a lifetime.

My mother's dependency shifted from her husband to her daughter.
A toxic mix of guilt, love, and hate now bound us together.

I'd promised myself I'd stay by her side and support her, no matter what.

And here she's thinking about her planned sacrifice, asks him to escape together, falls back when he says no:

Even thinking about the trip back, about saying goodbye... I hate it.

"Wanna live together?"
"...What?"

[...]

This is fine......
No, this is what I decided from the start.
So why am I wavering now?

 

[jojoka]

Another misandrist justifying Hikari physically attacking Yuu, it seems.

Well he's not a man with the massive pussy he has so I'm being more of a misogynist actually.

 

[GennArc]

What would be the characterization reason be to do so?

To show it as a consistent thing affecting their relationship, instead of just one chapter out of 5 (+3 extras). Instead, it comes up only once.

Thinking of Yuu's dream girl right after they slept together

Which chapter do you mean?

That it's some noble sacrifice type thing:

Where's the nobleness of the "sacrifice" in those quotes?
She is literally calling it punishment, there is nothing suggesting that it's "noble".

 

[story645]

To show it as a consistent thing affecting their relationship

Having it show up when they start dating, when she's looking back on the relationship*, and the first thing when they're reunited doesn't do that?

Which chapter do you mean?

Sorry thought this happened in 25.5 and not 26

Which means, right now, I shouldn't be worrying about Yuu's dream girl.
There's no point in obsessing over something completely out of my control.

Which also is why her POV isn't mentioning Hikari in the next couple of chapters. She's doing a similar tamping down w.r.t her mom - she's hiding the suicide attempt from the reader til she decides to end the fantasy. Same kinda thing - when the fantasy's over and she's looking back, Aya acknowledges she thinks Yuu loves Hikari b/c of the way he behaved while they were dating.

Where's the nobleness of the "sacrifice" in those quotes?
She is literally calling it punishment, there is nothing suggesting that it's "noble".

Accepting her "punishment" is the nobel act of choosing duty/filial piety over love.

 

[GennArc]

Having it show up when they start dating, when she's looking back on the relationship*, and the first thing when they're reunited doesn't do that?

No.
When they start dating, it looks just like a usual jealousy caused by his actual feelings for Hikari that were still there yet.
When she's "looking back on the relationship", nothing like that comes up. And if you mean 13.5, that's caused by Hikari's own words. She remembers their relationship as "heavenly time", not something you'd expect to hear about a relationship she was unhappy about.
When they're reunited - see the previous point, she is just hurt by Hikari being the first person he mentions. Even during her emotional explosion full of unfair words, she never blames him for liking Hikari or anything like that.
So no, had there been an intention to show how their relationship was poisoned by that jealousy, it would've come up more than just once.

Which also is why her POV isn't mentioning Hikari in the next couple of chapters. She's doing a similar tamping down w.r.t her mom - she's hiding the suicide attempt from the reader til she decides to end the fantasy.

Okay, so let's go back to your initial point:

I've always maintained that she was gonna find a reason to dump him

Why doesn't this ever come up? If your idea that she's an unreliable narrator that was hiding this fact from the reader too, there should've been a point where she admits this too, no?

Accepting her "punishment" is the nobel act of choosing duty/filial piety over love.

It reads to me like you personally think of it as "noble", and then blame her for "wrapping her ghosting as noble sacrifice", even though nothing in her words suggests that, she is just thinking she is suffering consequences of her own decisions.

 

[story645]

So no, had there been an intention to show how their relationship was poisoned by that jealousy, it would've come up more than just once.

It came up twice, the second time being an "this makes me so insecure I'm never gonna think about it again". That insecurity never gets resolved in her thoughts, instead she's sure Yuu's in love w/ Hikari (in contrast to Hikari's believing his feelings may have moved to Aya). Then first off she asks if Yuu has still kept her a secret, and then knowing that she, possibly purposely, kisses him b/c Hikari was there. Her wanting Hikari to see it is coming out of a place of deep "he's mine don't touch" insecurity. If she thought she securely could have him, she wouldn't need to mark her territory. That's why even now she's still asking if Hikari sent Yuu - she doesn't believe Yuu could just choose her.

you'd expect to hear about a relationship she was unhappy about.

We've gone all the circles on this - Aya can both be happy and have resentments and insecurities that she's communicating passive aggressively. It's not an either or and frankly we should drop this since I think we're just reading two different novels here.

Why doesn't this ever come up?

I think this is what Yazuka flags w/ her "it's destined to fail" and I don't think Aya has to say anything explicitly b/c it's baked into her characterization. From the go, we see Aya putting on this pretend person w/ Yuu then being passive aggressive about him not flagging it/calling it out. That sorta situation is untenable - her being mad he can't read her mind is gonna lead to her dumping him for not reading her mind. Which is functionally what she does when she goes through w/ her plan b/c he didn't believe she was serious about moving in. Basically she doesn't have to be explicit b/c it's just the kind of person Maruto has written her to be. But also it does sorta come up when she thinks of herself as a coward who runs away.

Maybe I'm projecting cause I'm kinda traumatized by know this communication style , but yeah I think we're just reading the same words very differently.

reads to me like you personally think of it as "noble",

Nah, it's just how filial piety is conceptualized in cultures where it's important. Which again, this punishment is all self-indlicted. Her mom never told her to dump Yuu - even her mom's initial request was "please don't leave on this trip when I'm going through this very hard time". Which yes, it's terrible parenting to make your kid responsible for your mental health, but Aya's mom wasn't forcing this choice. Aya constructed it as the excuse to walk away.

 

[GennArc]

It came up twice, the second time being an "this makes me so insecure I'm never gonna think about it again".

That's the same chapter as it came up "the first time" (26), so I'd count it as one.

instead she's sure Yuu's in love w/ Hikari

Could it be because Hikari said, as she remembers:

Ayami: "So, to sum it up, he's always liked someone, huh?"
Hikari: "W-well, at least since before he met that Seki girl..."
Ayami: "That's a sure thing, then."

And it's not like she was even wrong.

Then first off she asks if Yuu has still kept her a secret

That was Yuu who asked that:

Yuu: “You didn’t tell Hikari? About us?”
Yami: “Helloo? I only just found out myself, okay?”

I don't think Aya has to say anything explicitly b/c it's baked into her characterization

Then your idea is just inconsistent with the storytelling. If sometimes she says it explicitly and sometimes she doesn't, and you can't tell if it's because that's not what she thinks or because she just decided not to say it, then this pattern might as well just not exist at all. Because the point of an unreliable narrator is that the truth should come out eventually.

her being mad he can't read her mind is gonna lead to her dumping him for not reading her mind

That was not the point. She didn't get mad at him for being unable to read her mind (if we're talking chapter 40), she was frustrated that he fell for\accepted her lies that were kinda hurting her.

Which again, this punishment is all self-indlicted. Her mom never told her to dump Yuu - even her mom's initial request was "please don't leave on this trip when I'm going through this very hard time".

There was no such request.

But then...
My mother, who should have gained freedom, wealth, and the house, broke.

At first, she lashed out at me, the cause of the divorce in her eyes.
During the divorce proceedings, all the anger she'd amassed from my father was directed at me.

And when it finally got to me, when I decided to step away and leave the house again...
She attempted suicide and had to be rushed to the hospital.

I remember sitting by her bed as she apologized through tears, crying uncontrollably.

We've gone all the circles on this - Aya can both be happy and have resentments and insecurities that she's communicating passive aggressively.

She was happy but intended to dump him anyway and only used her mother's suicide attempt as a preface to that. Nah, I don't think I buy it.

It's not an either or and frankly we should drop this since I think we're just reading two different novels here.

Sorry, don't mean to use it as a jab, but it does sometimes feel that way with the amount of times I have to say something didn't happen. Because your image of Yami seems to make you reconstruct the events that didn't happen or reconstruct them in a very specific way. And it feels like those reconstructed memories then proceed to worsen the image even further.
Sorry again, it's just that this time it's a bit of a traumatic subject for me. But that's off-topic.

 

[story645]

That's the same chapter as it came up "the first time" (26), so I'd count it as one.

Sure but I think the point of that chapter was to establish that she's jealous, just like the point of the next chapter is to establish the chaotic homelife she keeps from Yuu.

And it's not like she was even wrong.

Hikari isn't so sure she's right,
which is the whole point. Aya's insecurity leads her to believe Yuu's in love w/ Hikari, while Hikari's understanding of the whole situation leaves her unsure of who Yuu loves.

Because the point of an unreliable narrator is that the truth should come out eventually.

I think it does via crash out and other people's reflections on her? Like you disagree w/ me, fine, but I've written straight up bullet points on how Maruto has her repetaing the same beats.

And also like a lot of it is stuff that she's communicating passive aggressively but you're reading as joking.

she was frustrated that he fell for\accepted her lies that were kinda hurting her.

That's still not being able to read her mind.

There was no such request.

Here she's reassuring her mom she'll only be gone a few days:
https://mangadex.org/chapter/5f454a18-ce10-4076-bb53-9bd810174ccf/4
And this is the convo that triggers the attempt. Look, again, I think her mom's being abusive as all out, but my point remains that Yami's mother never asks Yami to end the relationship.

She was happy but intended to dump him anyway and only used her mother's suicide attempt as a preface to that.

Intended is probably too strong a word, but yeah she was always gonna find some reason to dump him. That's why even w/ her mom's attempt hanging over her head, she still gave him a test he failed. That's why her friend thinks it's doomed even when Aya's being happy.

Because your image of Yami seems to make you reconstruct the events that didn't happen or reconstruct them in a very specific way.

And your image of Yami seems to be the fantasy she's trying to present to Yuu and that's why you hold on so tightly to the idea that b/c she was happy there weren't any problems. This is why Yuu thinks the break up comes out nowhere while someone who knows Yami predicts the crash and burn.
ETA: basically we're both filtering the characters through our own lenses and experience

you reconstruct the events that didn't happen

The convo you quote earlier was just me reading the paneling wrong, but mostly it's cause I read a million things and sometimes forget what happens.

I've also mentioned things you've insisted were wrong that ended up being right - for example that Yami knew Hikari saw the kiss - b/c I think these characters are written in a very coherent way.

ETA: Which that's the thing, usually the stuff I get wrong is small and can be dropped w/o undermining the big point. For example, here Aya kissing him in front of Hikari is a much stronger example of her resentment.

 

[GennArc]

Sure but I think the point of that chapter was to establish that she's jealous

Among other points, yes, but we were talking about how it would've come up more than once if it was so important.

I think it does via crash out and other people's reflections on her?

Regarding her jealousy towards Hikari - debatable, but maybe.
Regarding the whole "reason to dump him", there's just no way that Yuzuka's "their relationship is doomed" can be evidence to that. We already agreed to disagree about what it meant narratively, but even then it would make no sense for her to see Yami happy and go "yeah, she's gonna find a reason dump the guy".

Here she's reassuring her mom she'll only be gone a few days

Because she left the house, yeah. It doesn't say anything about her mom previously asking her not to, she might as well have felt guilty about forcing her daughter to escape.

And your image of Yami seems to be the fantasy she presents to Yuu and that's why you hold on so tightly to the idea that b/c she was happy there weren't any problems.

ETA: basically we're both filtering the characters through our own lenses and experiences.

Yeah, I'm not pretending to have an objective™ understanding of Yami (and I never said there weren't any problems), that's why we keep coming back to this discussion.

I've also mentioned things you've insisted were wrong that ended up being right - for example that Yami knew Hikari saw the kiss - b/c I think these characters are written in a very coherent way.

I did think that (that she didn't know), but I believe I never insisted that was true. Checked my comments for chapter 40 and didn't find any where I insisted she didn't know, though I could've missed something.
But that's a bit different from reconstructing scenes that never happened. I am just a bit frustrated by things like this, will DM you later to not stray off the topic.

 

[story645]

but we were talking about how it would've come up more than once if it was so important.

Her parents constant fighting also only comes up the one chapter after they start dating.

Also, again, Aya explicitly doesn't even think about her mom's suicide attempt during their trip, instead lying to herself that it's great. Which, that's the unreliable POV of these chapters - it's how Aya wants to think of herself. As someone too cool to feel threatened by an old crush. But if that were true, Aya wouldn't feel the need to mark Yuu as hers when faced w/ Hikari, instead she'd trust in her own ability to win him back b/c she'd believe she really won him once.

but even then it would make no sense for her to see Yami happy and go "yeah, she's gonna find a reason dump the guy".

I think it's her own experience w/ Aya. She cared enough for Aya to let Aya live w/ her but apparently hasn't heard from her for a while (going by her questions) and when they meet again Aya is pushing her away by staying close lipped and making it transactional (I'll repay you). It's this attitude she's flagging:
https://mangadex.org/chapter/e4ab55c6-46b9-437f-8362-5b3725186f1d/4

It doesn't say anything about her mom previously asking her not to,

Aya telling her mom to not talk about her death strongly implies that Aya's mom was threatening suicide right after Aya tried to reassure her about the trip.

 

[GennArc]

Her parents constant fighting also only comes up the one chapter after they start dating.

That's because their fighting only started after Yami went forward with her divorce plan, so it really only happened between chapters 26 and 28.

As someone too cool to feel threatened by an old crush.

How does this

Which means, right now, I shouldn't be worrying about Yuu's dream girl.
There's no point in obsessing over something completely out of my control.

become "(I pretend) I'm too cool to feel threatened by his old crush"? I think it's closer to the opposite, she goes "I need to become a better person for Yuu to feel more confident to walk alongside him":

The thing I need to focus on is myself.

-snip-

What am I going to do about school?
About home? About my awful dad and my mom who never does anything?
How am I going to deal with all of it?

If I don't get my act together, I might lose this precious thing I've finally found.
It'll slip through my fingers.

Aya telling her mom to not talk about her death strongly implies that Aya's mom was threatening suicide right after Aya tried to reassure her about the trip.

Or she was saying it during the divorce process.

 

[story645]

so it really only happened between chapters 26 and 28.

Which is more than the one chapter it gets? Hikari gets her chapter and then Aya is like nope, I'm not gonna think on it anymore & that's the story she's sticking w/ in her POV.

"(I pretend) I'm too cool to feel threatened by his old crush"? I think it's closer to the opposite, she goes "I need to become a better person for Yuu to feel more confident to walk alongside him"

If you're linking her feeling inadequate to Hikari specifically than Aya feels inadequate in basically every chapter she has w/ Yuu so yeah that's ever present. But what I was talking more about was her cool girl it's a fling persona and how that girl is so unbothered/unthreatened that she's telling Yuu to "go fall in love".

Or she was saying it during the divorce process.

Then I think Maruto would have introduced that earlier when telling the reader about Aya's mother's instability.

 

[GennArc]

Which is more than the one chapter it gets?

Uh, there is only one chapter between 26 and 28. If you mean those omake chapters, I thought it was pretty clear the fighting didn't start yet.

If you're linking her feeling inadequate to Hikari specifically

Nah, I think it's more about what we discussed before about Yuu's family, she feels like the dropout delinquent with family issues isn't fit to be with the earnest guy he was, that it might cause trouble for him.

Then I think Maruto would have introduced that earlier when telling the reader about Aya's mother's instability.

The way he only put it in the omake chapter and not in the main chapter is a good indicator that there wasn't any emphasis on that. The chapter was focused more on dreaming about living with Yuu, because otherwise it would make more sense to actually show Yami quarrelling with her mother and running away from home.

 

[story645]

Uh, there is only one chapter between 26 and 28.

So I think I lost the thread of my argument, which is more that the events in 27 are directly related to her mom's suicide attempt and she suppresses all of that.

she feels like the dropout delinquent with family issues isn't fit to be with the earnest guy he was, that it might cause trouble for him.

I think that's exacerbated by his "dream girl" being her polar opposite and is why Maruto has her go down this train of "want to be normal" in the same chapter where she's thinking on Yuu's potential feelings for Hikari:

There's this lingering sense -- barely noticeable, but still there -- of his attachment to this person I've never even met.

Also I forgot that this is early May, so they've been dating for like 2 and some change months.

because otherwise it would make more sense to actually show Yami quarrelling with her mother and running away from home.

They get about equal weight - bottom 1- top 2 being about Yuu, bottom 2-3 being about her mom.

 

[John_Smith10]

This author basically invented a new trophe in the NTR scenario, the "femcel bastard": a girlfailure with a shitty and ugly personality that during the progression of a story will try to steal the male character from the childhood friends counterpart.

Meanwhile the female (or male) audience of girlfailures with that same kind of deranged, shitty mentality and slutty behavior would be able to identify with that character, cheering for every bad actions she'll continue to take, and also hoping that the femcel bastard will be able to steal and "be accepted" by the male childhood counterpart (I am/was a total slut by choice, every action I take goes against my own wealth and well being, I will hurt other people around me by acting like that, but you, the prince of my dreams, you will accept me, right?).

In this kind of stories, the audience will be able to project then that same fictional scenario onto their life, hoping that they will also be able to find that "prince" that will accept them just as they are (instead of, idk, maybe trying to grow up and change that bad behaviour that you have and that will only continue to make people move away from you and your life).

In conclusion this author is a genius and if hentai artists will look at this work with attention, they will realize that there's a huge fanbase of deranged people that you could exploit by making similar works (just like other NTRs do when they make the ugly bastard or the otakus steal the childhood girl from the childhood friend counterpart, pleasing a fanbase of jp folks that will probably never have a girl in their life and will resort to prostitution to have sex)

I only have one issue with your post.

Femcels aren't real.

Ayami proved that she's not one by immediately pulling a guy who (claimed to have) had feelings for another girl into sleeping with her on the very first day they met.

An involuntary celibate can't get laid for the life of them.
She did so easily.

She's not a femcel.
She's a broken girl that ruins relationships, then laments about her stupid decisions while never apologizing like a coward, and STILL getting forgiven by everyone she's fucked over.

Everything else is spot on.

 

[John_Smith10]

yall are haters, deep down you know yami clears hikari. will she win? i doubt it, would be hilariosu tho
ill take the flawed character who has shown she wants to escape her vicious cycle of self hatred over hikari

Always "Wants to" but never "does".

"I want to change"
Will she go apologize to her friend?

Lol no.

She stares at her apartment and hopes Hikari somehow notices her presence and looks down or just appears by chance.

She makes no effort to actually change and cowers back at the chances laid out.

She is a coward who claims to want change, but doesn't.

Hikari, after all of the turmoil, actually made the effort to reach out to people.
They are not comparable in the slightest.

 

[Padrepi0]

I only have one issue with your post.

Femcels aren't real.

Ayami proved that she's not one by immediately pulling a guy who (claimed to have) had feelings for another girl into sleeping with her on the very first day they just met.

An involuntary celibate can't get laid for the life of them.
She did so easily.

She's not a femcel.
She's a broken girl that ruins relationships, then laments about her stupid decisions while never apologizing like a coward, while getting forgiven by everyone she's fucked over.

Everything else is spot on.

Yeah i know that, i used the "femcel" term to refer to what we could consider a specific internet memetical kind of trope (and to the fact that sometime when referring to someone as an "incel", people aren't really considering the involuntary celibate matter, but the whole "persona" who identifies or is designed in that kind of trope).