Imouto no Tomodachi ga Nani Kangaeteru no ka Wakaranai - Vol. 1 Ch. 5 - Bracelets

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@Oeconomist
You don't understand the very concept of generalization. A statement of form
Sometimes X
is a generalization of "X happened once"

"The people who are arguing that the problem is at my end are those who are generalizing here; they are arguing that there is never a failure on the server side nor of the code delivered by the site."

Nobody's arguing that. Nobody say that the server or the code can't fail.
What they say is that given you're the only one here that had a problem, given that everyone else got through it completely fine, it's very likely a problem on your side.
If half the people were reporting problems, bad instructions/serveur side failure would be more likely.
 
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@CursedLight
Nobody's arguing that. Nobody say that the server or the code can't fail.
What they say is that given you're the only one here that had a problem, given that everyone else got through it completely fine, it's very likely a problem on your side.
Nope. They didn't all hedge as you now pretend, and you weren't just defending hedged assertions as you now pretend. (Exercise: Show me the hedging here.) If you want to walk back your claim, do so honestly.
If half the people were reporting problems, bad instructions/serveur side failure would be more likely.
And here's the problem with that somewhat more modest claim: None of you bothered to inquire what steps I took in diagnosing the problem. (thename0fthewind asked about adblockers, but note that he or she didn't make a positive claim one way or another about where the problem was.) You don't know [ul]which browsers I used,
which networks I tried, and
whether I had Facebook sandboxed.[/ul] The first two of those bear upon any inference from “just you”. The only reason that you know about what I did with respect to site-blocking and JavaScript was because thename0fthewind asked a pertinent question. You just generalized foolishly.

The problem was (and perhaps still is) most likely located in the server that I noted in my original comment, but it may have been in the Facebook app.
 

BCS

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I like how the credits page alone is 7.5MB, which should be the size of the entire chapter
 
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@Oeconomist
Nope. They didn't all hedge as....
Given how many times it's used i guess it has another definition but even after checking the dictionnary, i still don't get what you mean with this "hedge" word.
One thing that i can say though is that i don't "now" pretend.

And here's the problem with that somewhat more modest claim: None of you bothered to inquire what steps I took in diagnosing the problem. (thename0fthewind asked about adblockers, but note that he or she didn't make a positive claim one way or another about where the problem was.) ............... The first two of those bear upon any inference from “just you”.
It doesn't matter ?

I have product X.
100 people used it.
Out of these, 1 guy calls me and say "look, i tried all these ways and i still have problems with X" .
Does X have a problem or is that 1 guy (and/or the PC) the problem ?
Which is more likely ?

If anything, that this 1 guy use all these ways to try to use my product X and still fails seems to reinforce the idea that he, and not the product, has a problem.
Now, if he got any error messages, we'd be talking there.

You just generalized foolishly.
I fail to see where i'm generalizing when i say that it's probably a problem on your side given that everyone else is fine.

The problem was (and perhaps still is) most likely located in the server that I noted in my original comment, but it may have been in the Facebook app.
"Look, i know i'm the only person that has a problem with product X but i swear, it's not a problem on my side, it's your product who's faulty !"
 
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@CursedLight

If you don't know the English language well enough to understand the word “hedge”, then you shouldn't be attempting an argument here. But, yes, you do pretend that there was hedging when there wasn't. (Perform the exercise that I parenthetically suggested; find a word or phrase such as “probably ” in that comment.)

How things can fail bears upon the likelihood of one failure versus another. You're basically claiming that “it doesn't matter” that I've done the necessary testing to exclude failure at my end; you're just gonna dumbass through it and say that it probably happened at my end because you don't know of it happening to anyone else. Happening just to me (even if you may infer that's the case) and happening at my end are different things.

You proved at the outset that you didn't even know what generalization were, when you claimed that I was generalizing. So it shouldn't much matter to anyone that you fail to see where you're generalizing.

Again: Happening just to me and happening at my end are different things. So, even on a claim that it only happened to me your reasoning is wanting, because it does matter what tests I conducted.
 
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@Oeconomist
If you don't know the English language well enough to understand the word “hedge”, then you shouldn't be attempting an argument here. But, yes, you do pretend that there was hedging when there wasn't. (Perform the exercise that I parenthetically suggested; find a word or phrase such as “probably ” in that comment.)
I do know some of the definitions of hedge, just never knew about that one.
Shame on me for not knowing literally every definitions of every words in the english language like you surely do :/

As for the argument, no i don't literally see a probably (more like "very probably" here). It's implied.
Like, if i say that "humans have 5 fingers on each hands", are you going to screech because i didn't say "humans have generally 5 fingers on generally each hands" ?
Or are you intelligent enough to understand that generally in the first sentence are implied ?

Unless they said that the server can't fail, they didn't say the server can't fail.
If i tell the guy trying to use product X that he has a problem on his end, i'm not saying that my product is perfect and devoid of any bugs and thus the only possible option in this universe is that it's his fault. Yes it's possible for product X to be at fault. But the possibility of this being the case is so small in this guy's case i'm fine leaving out the "very probably" from the sentence.

You proved at the outset that you didn't even know what generalization were, when you claimed that I was generalizing. So it shouldn't much matter to anyone that you fail to see where you're generalizing.
Which is why when i replied
You don't understand the very concept of generalization. A statement of form
Sometimes X
is a generalization of "X happened once"
You dropped it and never replied to it ? Seems more like you're the one who doesn't understand generalization :/

How things can fail bears upon the likelihood of one failure versus another. You're basically claiming that “it doesn't matter” that I've done the necessary testing to exclude failure at my end; you're just gonna dumbass through it and say that it probably happened at my end because you don't know of it happening to anyone else. Happening just to me (even if you may infer that's the case) and happening at my end are different things.
You didn't answer my question about "Which is more likely" in my example.
I also fail to see how it's dumb to say that because it didn't happened to anyone else, it's probably on your end. Unless you have error messages (or you have instructions so that i can replicate it, now that i think about it), that a very reasonable take.
And the thing is, i and you simply don't know if you've done all the necessary testing to exclude failure on your end.

Again: Happening just to me and happening at my end are different things. So, even on a claim that it only happened to me your reasoning is wanting, because it does matter what tests I conducted.
So like...What's the supposed difference between happening to me and happening on my end ? Seems like synonyms to me.
And seems like a lot of your arguments are semantics, which are really boring :/
 
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@CursedLight
Shame on me for not knowing literally every definitions of every words in the english language
No, shame on you for expecting me to provide definitions that any native speaker should know, instead of your using a dictionary.
As for the argument, no i don't literally see a probably (more like "very probably" here). It's implied.
Nothing implies it; you just assume that no one intended what their words actually meant when those meanings fly in the face of your claim.
Like, if i say that "humans have 5 fingers on each hands", are you going to screech because i didn't say "humans have generally 5 fingers on generally each hands" ?
The proper analogy here is my saying that I met a man with four fingers on his hand, and then some folks' replying that I didn't because people have five on each hand, and then your claim that they merely said that I probably didn't, and that the evidence that I did see such a man “doesn't matter” to the question of probability. I'm not going to screech, but I'm going to note how you're responding as fools.
Or are you intelligent enough to understand that generally in the first sentence are implied ?
You're begging the question here; tying an insult to it doesn't make it any more fallacious.
Unless they said that the server can't fail, they didn't say the server can't fail.
And now you're attempting a dishonest substitution. What they argued was not that the server could not fail, but that it did not fail, and that the failure must be at my end or with my specific network.
Which is why when i replied
You don't understand the very concept of generalization. A statement of form
Sometimes X
is a generalization of "X happened once"

You dropped it and never replied to it ? Seems more like you're the one who doesn't understand generalization :/
I simply forgot to reply to it. But, no, it's not a generalization in the sense of “generalization” under which your earlier
very funny how you generalize and judge with your one weird case
works. Logically, even just one instance proves that sometimes X. (Consult any standard text on logical quantifiers.) But you were objecting because you mistook my claim for an inductive inference; that is the sort of generalization in question. Substituting a different definition of “generalize” would be dishonest equivocation.
You didn't answer my question about "Which is more likely" in my example.
I didn't literally answer it because I explained its flaw: “How things can fail bears upon the likelihood of one failure versus another.” You attempt to arrive at probabilities while ignoring how things can fail. One arrives at actual probabilities by taking into account available information, especially information that constrains the possibilities. When a problem might at some end, one examines that end to see what could produce such a failure; if one removes from plausibility everything at that end which is a plausible cause, then it is no longer plausible that the problem is at that end.
I also fail to see how it's dumb to say that because it didn't happened to anyone else, it's probably on your end.
First, because there were three ways given for registering, and the people who actually revealed with option they used indicated that they used the first option. We don't even know whether anyone else tried to use the Facebook app. Second, and more importantly, because you didn't grasp the significance of the information that I provided. Values were to be delivered to the server by way of a GET request, I reached the server, and got a blank page. That alone sharply limits the possibilities. If that was just a way-station from which I was supposed to be forwarded, then I would have got a warning from my browser. So, something other than a blank page should have resulted, from some combination of server-side code and of JavaScript. I enabled JavaScript, and checked to see whether any sites were being blocked; they weren't. The server just wasn't delivering what it was supposed to deliver. And everything that I've just stated was either in my earlier comments, or something already known to anyone who anyone with enough competence to actually engage in an argument about such matters.

Now, I did go ahead and try some other things. For example, some web coders code don't write proper JavaScript, and if their code works on a Chromium-based browser, they call it a night; so I tried a Chromium-based browser. But note that, if that had resolved the problem, the problem (bad JavaScript) would still have been at their end, though it wouldn't be noticed anyone using Chrome, Edge, Opera, &c.
Unless you have error messages (or you have instructions so that i can replicate it, now that i think about it), that a very reasonable take.
Nope. It's the take of someone who doesn't understand these things, but still feels entitled to make declarations about probabilities.
So like...What's the supposed difference between happening to me and happening on my end ? Seems like synonyms to me.
Christ, that is ridiculous. If a bank is supposed to mail checks to a hundred people, yet fails to mail one of them, the failure is at the end of the bank, not at the end of the intended recipient; with regard to the location of the failure in this case, it doesn't matter whether anyone else got his or her check; even if everyone else got his or her check, the failure is at the bank's end.

(I'm sticking everything else in spoiler elements just so that people can get to the laugh right away.)
And seems like a lot of your arguments are semantics, which are really boring :/
You can spare yourself such boredom by not trying to escape responsibility for what you've actually said.
 
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@Oeconomist
.....Because i posted then found out that the first spoiler was not opened.
And if there's a way to delete a comment already posted, i'm all ears.
 
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@CursedLight
i posted then found out that the first spoiler was not opened
In that case, you can edit it to “[REDACTED ENTRY]” or something similar, and then create a later entry with an appropriate time-stamp.
i'm all ears.
Probably best to read the comments, rather that use text-to-voice.
 
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*sigh* Great. Just fucking great :/
@Oeconomist
You win. I'm too tired to rewrite the text i spent 2 fucking hours doing which deleted itself after misclicking on the "go back a page" button .
 
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Aww, so cute! We had bracelets like that when I was younger, too.

Edit: I voted! There were so many great manga there that it was hard deciding which other two to vote for.
 

Fim

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I couldn't vote either, though it seems I should still have time (voting ends July 3rd, 11:00, Japan time).
I logged into nico with my decade-old account there, but all I get from tsugimanga.jp afterwards is エラーが発生しました (Error). Oh well, no votes from me then.
I also know that it's probably my problem, I can't even use mangadex normally anymore - whenever I try to rad manga here, I need to completely disable Requestpolicy Continued, otherwise all (or most) image loading fails. (Win7, FF55.0b1, with ABP, NoScript and Requestpolicy Continued)

Also I didn't know that other meaning for that word either. For simple people like me, a hedge is just the cumulation of plants that grow at the edge of my property to block the vision of nosy neighbors, and that's all the meaning this word ever gets to have in my vocabulary.
 

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