Interesting Topic: Hero Stories

[kohelemon]

I've been mulling over old projects recently, and I wonder of others' views on the "Superhero" Genre, and Superheroes and what they stand for. Just for fun.

My Thoughts: Heavy Ramblings​

For like 6-7 years I worked on a Hero Story which was quite dark, incredibly so, I eventually stopped writing it because the more it grew the darker it became. Furthermore, there then grew an enormous amount of Dark Hero Stories in Media, as well as Hero Satires, until it grew incredibly maddening. Not the subgenre itself, but the fact that now something I spent years on was doing nothing different.
This of course prompted me to do some heavy thinking on hero stories then and now, and I noted Something Alan Moore stated some time ago about regretting "Watchmen". Obviously, he made some money off of it, but he's said before about it and "Killing Joke" that he regrets making them because of their effect on Comics. He intended them to be satires, as V for Vendetta was a sort of joke, in being more of a Novel than a Comic "Everything a Comic shouldn't be" as is usually seen on the back of copies of the compiled series. Yet, Moore's hero satires grew into a prompt to deconstruct and explore darker rabbitholes in Heroism. And inspired thousands of Hero Satires, which continued to have an effect on Comics.
With that said, what I garnered from that was yet another re-evaluation of my processes. While I respect more, I can't say the effect was too bad, eventually the audience would mature, and while good stories needn't worry, newer stories would mature as well. Nevertheless, as he mentioned "Heroes are to be looked up to, hopeful". That's stuck with me of course. I glare at marvel and dc, see the films and comics and see... well... a great much muddling. there's hope but, enormous amounts of otherwise.
But I don't think that's a bad thing, in fact, while I'm still mad, I made a Dark Hero Story, I see it as a provocation. My Story focused upon evaluating the reasoning of a Mentally Ill Superhero being challenged by a Psychotic Vigilante, and their ideals tearing apart the city about them. It is an interesting story, but the story is a conflict, bearing little hope, and the hope found at its end is obviously muddled, and soured by the thousands of dead bodies needed to prove a point. Even when the point was second chances.
While I think that story could work, especially since I've been away from it for 3 years. I think it's more of a... More of an introduction to an idea, a question, a prompt. A presenting of odds to prove a point, a hopeful one. The Former Hero acted because he believed he did not deserve to exist, and must atone, and is set free when he realizes his parents would want him to live on. The New Hero acts because he knows how to fix things and wishes no one else to suffer as he did. The Former is a lot more troubled, though the latter is quieter about it, and is no less self-destructive, both explore altruism, but the former sees it as his only way while the latter knows there's an end.
I like the latter, because it feels less negative. nevertheless, I cannot simply take that world and change it, our world is only growing darker, but that doesn't mean he has to give up, and accept it. that's his whole reason for being who he is.
It's a difficult subject to reason out of course, which is why the newer version still has yet to get off the ground. I know the Newer Version has a chance to be narratively better, but the older one did some things I'm quite proud of and astonished by. A story must have a message though, and I want mine to be positive from here on out. Though I do recognize that in any story adversity, challenges, and provocations rear their heads. I simply want to display a stalwart and somewhat flawed individual, who is lost, yet is not. And I want to show that in a positive way, that shows humanity but also hope.
I understand most heroes are troubled minds of course, and they do exist in these genres, but I want my first hero to be troubled somewhat, but still hopeful enough to uplift others, and I want the message to be less muddled than what it was last time. Last time it was more of a Horror book than a Hero one, as described by the few who read it.


I know, Most don't think so deeply about these things, but I feel like they should be thought about. While my stories aren't intended for children at all, I still want it to be hopeful. And for certain that is possible!
So as said before, what do you think of Superheroes? Sure, this is an odd topic in some ways but series like MHA and whatnot exist in Manga, so it's not that odd.

Off-Topic, sometimes I find it kinda sad how the No-Killing rule is laughed at nowadays, or ridiculed. Which is why nowadays when I write heroes, I find fates worse than death for villains. My current most formed hero pretty much has the abilities of Josuke's Stand from JOJO 4. While it's satisfying to see villains ultimately end, I still feel like that's what they wanted. Okay that's enough!

 

[Jergal]

Main problem of good-quality parodies, they usually attract people to the very topic that have been laughed about. Mostly because auditory doesn't really cares deep philosophy and undertones (which is good, actually. Caring about philosophy makes you are depressed alcoholic). People need means of engagement or escapism.

For example, after One punch man (Murata Yuusuke's version) literally became the very thing that ONE parodied - cheap superhero comedy with great art.
Konosuba currently treated as just good comedy isekai, ignoring parody part.
The Eminence in Shadow is the same as Konosuba.


And when something is treated as cheap mean of engagement or escapism, auditory needs all other things that make them satisfied - softcore gore, low-quality romance, killing of villains and other things. On top of than, nowadays people grow up watching cartoons and movies with white/black morals and they crave something different, No-Killing rule for them is something boring and seen a lot of times.

Thing with No-killing is easily solvable by causing sympathy. There's one game, Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous and there's character that made a huge mistake many years ago (have been seduced by demon and let her conquer city that he defended) and you meet him after many years - he was repenting for his crimes, bravely fought against demons and, basically, redeemed himself a lot of times. But ones who punished him for his mistake didn't really care and used him in most dangerous places, because nobody will care about him. At some point of the story, this demon appears again and character joins her without any seduction, because despite her being demon and playing with his feelings, she's the only one who gave him any warmth and affection, not only ridicule or contempt. After this, you don't have a choice but to kill him and this pains a lot, because it's easy to sympathize with his story.

As for superheroes, it most strange thing for me. I'm not from US, or even Europe, so for me superheroes are not part of childhood, but weird people in ridiculous clothes that I've seen from time to time when another Batman movie came out and then, in late teens, I've seen first Avengers movie. And for me, superheroes are goofy as hell, even in their more serious appearances like Old Man Logan or Alan Moore comics.

I guess, superheroes are hugely cultural thing too. I've seen video essay about superheroes being child of cowboy genre, boasting power of strong individual, taking care of weak ones, just like Ayn Rand loves it. But in my culture, most common trope is "Tired and broken person carries one, while being abandoned by everyone", because this is feeling of whole generations in my country and for me, such a glorified picture as superheroes is delusional - carrying on despite everything is indeed cool, when you have superpowers/lots of money/training by ancient master, but what can superheroes can do without such a convenience?

 

[Manko-sensei]

Centered in Superheroes from USA, I was never able to sympathise with them. I can understand their success and appeal and even how some of them don't come from the highest stratus of society which makes them relatable to the middle class, but I can't find them heroic. First of all, the enemies are not the inner enemies that USA had, but personifications of fears and horrors embodied in powerful villains. Secondly, when they are required of patriotism they're seconds to no one. And finally, even after overcoming them, there is nothing else than the sentimental need of keeping watch so those who are at mercy of those enemies because only these Superheroes will actually protect them. Because of these traits I cannot commend the genre, nor any copy that was done afterwards. Nowadays of course they turned into escapism and mere entertainment everywhere, but that is a marketing strategy that I won't discuss now because I find it redundant.

Why I mentioned the term "heroic"? Because it is impossible to separate that term from worldwide literature where heroes are not characters conflicted by mundane affairs and around the enemies and threads that appear in Superheroes genre. They are not necessarely paragons, whose powers weren't bestowed in exchance of performing a specific task and they not only grow from beginning to end, they struggle finding a meaning behind them, whether they should accept or not the tasks or obligations imposed on them and sooner or later moving towards a fate that it's unknown for them. Anti-heroes also differ with those from the other genre, and their actions aren't qualified by success or failure when it comes to outcomes, they aren't able but to act as they do even if they know they're being toyed with. The Hero's Journey from Joseph Campbell summarise it very well and it's a good read after you got to know heroes from all the parts of the world, even if there's something you feel that needs to be added. Which hero can we find in contemporary literature that can stand next to these heroes? One of them without a doubt is Conan the Barbarian, and still nowadays has influence on the heroes that came after him, maybe thanks to being spread more easily in the comic version of the novels.

Can we find traces of traditional heroes plus those from the XX century besides superheroes in nowadays literature? Yes, for superheroes in Japan the most iconic series would be Dragonball and picks up everything that was cooked in Superhero Comics to mold it into an existing hero rebranded in a new setting where superpowers exist. Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, when it comes to the original trilogy, it's a mix of a Western with eventually superpowers but its root is the traditional hero. What came after was a superhero legacy. The problem with everything but specially with Japan is that once these works (among others, I simplified things for a better reading) were done, new authors didn't retrace to their origins but simply imitated (if not plagiarated) these stories and the next generations did the same with these not so original authors. A work that can explain the Japanish phenomenon that I'm alluding to is Adult Manga by Sharon Kinsella. For creativity and originality she used a clue term, the "hunger". The reason why authors that didn't belong to the elites were able to create those works were commonfolk that with scarce drawing resources overcame those hindrances with ingenuity.

To conclude it, I will rephrase it with a simple sentence: superheroes are created to appeal a certain audience because they are a separated genre, whereas heroes appeal to universal and cultural values that penetrate all the stratus of a society. For those less acquainted with, the universal values are what make mythologies similar everywhere in the world because even in times of oral tradition these stories managed to move (while changing) thousands of kilometers in all directions and returned again with new versions of the same values.