Isekai Teni Shite Kyoushi ni Natta ga, Majo to Osorerareteiru Ken ~Aoi-sensei no Gakuen Funtou Nisshi~ - Ch. 12

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The “bad guy” of this arc is actually pretty good, his reasons for what he became is very understandable, and his willingness to try to understand her is quite pleasant. I am strangely addicted to this manga and can’t wait to see what happens next
There's certain kinds of antagonists that are easy to sympathize with and he's one of them. He's just a doomer antagonist, someone whose lost all hope after repeated failures. Dude doesn't need a beatdown, he needs a hug. Similarly, look at the Fraxidus in Wuthering Waves, who are accelerationist. Yeah, they do reckless and dangerous experiments and attack anyone who gets in the way of that but, as I recall, that is mostly driven by the acknowledgement that reality is breaking down and monsters/superhumans are appearing so might as well do experiments on themselves to figure out how to turn everyone into superhumans or fuse themselves with monsters to rush through to the inevitable and adapt to the new world.

yeah, an antagonist whose central conceit is that the world is, in fact, bad and they are just trying to deal with it in a practical way after losing hope tends to be pretty easy to understand.

Well, from the tone of your post I think it's pretty clear you're not actually looking for any kind of discussion here, lmao. But yeah, go ahead and misrepresent my post as "yes every society must be exactly the same" if you want, I guess. Acknowledging that scientific advancements tend to help knowledge in other fields, and that there should be some rudimentary knowledge of the natural world for a society that's shown to otherwise be technologically equivalent to medival europe, is not the same thing as saying "all societies are the same". I don't even know where the part of your post about third world countries came from, because the advancement rate of separate societies and the advancement of disciplines within a single society are entirely different things.

Heck, looking back at it, Foa even says "certainly, the magic she uses is like a miniature version of the actual phenomenon", meaning it isn't even something they don't know, because he's able to confirm that it matches the science. That's even worse than I thought initially, because it's not even that they don't know about the water cycle, but that they do, and nobody thought to ever try to emulate the water cycle with water magic until Aoi said "hey why don't you try to do it with magic" with no further explanation? Really? That just feels ridiculous.
I think it's worth pointing out that the logic behind saying that fantasy isekai are medieval in development and should have around the same understandings is the same basis for things like ancient aliens discussions. Different civilizations had different priorities, resources, and histories. There isn't a fixed order to how things develop and a big difference like having magic would easily throw off any expectations for that. So, you should never think that an isekai fantasy is medieval europe-like in development, as the things we see usually have them more advanced in some regards and less in others. It's just that they might have a similar aesthetic or class structure which, even if it could be affected by technology, its mostly a societal matter.

Also, didn't she have to explain the process to a researcher who was focused on trying to figure out how to make rain and only had a theory at the time on how it worked? That was last chapter. They know, NOW, but she was the one who told them. Until then, it was some country's closely guarded secret.
 
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Holy hell my head hurts from reading this. I understand all of it but the shortness of some of the bubbles made me stress. Felt too short, not coherent enough to be normal, but still understandable.
 
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The “bad guy” of this arc is actually pretty good, his reasons for what he became is very understandable, and his willingness to try to understand her is quite pleasant. I am strangely addicted to this manga and can’t wait to see what happens next
surprisingly enough as far i remember reading this series (until some entitled shitty elf that look down on human) there rarely stupid villain type well there one before elf but that outside the school ground and in other country and surprisingly buckle when Aoi accidentally drop "divine hammer" in his garden :ROFLMAO:

Screenshot-20240810-080951-Chrome.jpg

Why is this old man so cute and funny :dogkek::dogkek::dogkek:
as much i love his goffies act in earlier arc, in future arc regarding his grandkid kinda ruined his face for me albeit more or less i can understand his pain
 
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Well, I woke up to like 30 notifications and 5 quotes or something, so sorry if I missed some quotes in this thread, but I'll just reply in general to the linked posts here vs starting a bunch of individual threads (since it's awful to try to keep up multiple discussions that are just very slightly different).

Anyway, it seems like the general sentiment is "well it could develop that way", and sure, I'll agree that the possibility exists. I just don't think it's very likely, and all these isekai civilizations are built with these clear blind spots in their advancement not because of some level of interesting worldbuilding where the author made specific considerations that led their civilization to this point, but just from the fact that the author needed a clear blind spot for the MC to exploit with basic knowledge. Call it overused instead of dumb if you want, but at the end of the day I think it's just a trope that sucks.

Sometimes I'd expect it + just glaze over it, like if Foa was just a textbook mustache-twirling evil noble that needed to be put in his place, but from the way Foa was given some level of nuance I was hoping for something a little less black+white "look how amazing the MC is" here. Oh well.

To the point that it was shown last chapter though that they didn't know the cloud formation theory concretely though: yeah I'd forgotten about that so I'll take back the part about them knowing "for sure", because it's just theories. Though also, she didn't even actually tell them there, she just hinted at it+then punched him out, so I feel like it would have taken a longer time for Foa to figure out what she's implied to that student researcher. So I assume Foa knew this from the previously known (just not proven) theories, which people would've been just as likely to test with water magic, imo. But that whole bit's just secondary to the main argument so I'm fine conceding that point regardless.
 
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...
Anyway, it seems like the general sentiment is "well it could develop that way", and sure, I'll agree that the possibility exists. I just don't think it's very likely, and all these isekai civilizations are built with these clear blind spots in their advancement not because of some level of interesting worldbuilding where the author made specific considerations that led their civilization to this point, but just from the fact that the author needed a clear blind spot for the MC to exploit with basic knowledge. Call it overused instead of dumb if you want, but at the end of the day I think it's just a trope that sucks.
...
that, I can agree with. Awhile ago there was a soap isekai. Dude gets isekai'd and strikes it rich by selling soap (different from the one where he reincarnates into a kid and tries to improve his village's living conditions/survival rate by teaching sanitation etc.). Soap is an old invention so it feels like they should be able to manage on figure it out before he got there but we usually just accept that. but the story requires that he'd have access to plenty of spare oil/fat that isn't being used for something more relevant, that we gloss over that much of the benefits we associate with modern soap comes from additives for scent/skincare/antimicrobial effects different from the basic hydrolipid that just makes it easier to remove grease, and for us to believe he could establish a culture of daily bathing where there wasn't one similar to the way Listerine convinced the world to gargle floor cleaner by making up a disease when they needed a new way to sell their product.

So, yeah, as we said there are a lot of different circumstances that lead to technological, scientific, and cultural developments that's specific to a civilization. It's also true that isekai authors pick and choose how their society develops for convenience and rarely explores it (By the Grace of the Gods goes into detail about how isekai'd people developed their worlds medical knowledge, then deteriorated it, and then built back up that understanding since to a point where they understand sanitation). Gonna be a bit mean here but I think most isekai authors aren't exactly intelligent and probably don't grasp ANYONE'S history well enough to make a good argument for any cause and effect in their world building.
 
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I'm a bit bummed that this was so one-sided with no fault/lackings on Aoi's side, because Foa's argument is how this thing would totally go outside of generic fantasy manga, at least to some degree.

There's no reason a reasonably advanced civilization like this wouldn't understand the basics of cloud formation, to the point where someone going "yeah steam/vapor rises and then it cools and makes clouds which come back down as rain" constitutes an actual lesson to the point that it lets students perform an original never-before-seen magic. That's the exact kinda thing where IRL a genius would go "it's just X and Y, it's that simple" and the students would go "...that doesn't really help me."

Like obviously it's manga and the author's not gonna write some high-end magical lecture here, but I just kind of eyeroll at the whole "isekai'd person blows fantasy world genius' minds with elementary school knowledge" trope whenever it shows up. It just tends to paint everyone else as morons to show how smart the MC is, without actually having to write them as that smart.
Considering that we, as a modern society, did not truly even study or understand the formation of clouds or the nature of precipitation until relatively recently, 1700s-1800s, I really do not think this is that far fetched a thing. In fact, it would be pretty advanced for this society to even have a common understanding about how it works to the point of being able to speculate it's use for magic. It's elementary knowledge to us because we live in a relatively modern world with modern conveniences that allow us to learn this with ease, but I don't think this fantasy setting is on par with a 1700s-1800s time.

And even if they were, it wouldn't even be common knowledge amongst people, let alone knowledge that would be well understood enough by even anyone studying it for application. Especially since they have such a powerful social caste in place, it is even more likely very few even know the concept exists. I think it's totally fair to think that a society like this doesn't have a full grasp on cloud formation and weather.
 
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that, I can agree with. Awhile ago there was a soap isekai. Dude gets isekai'd and strikes it rich by selling soap (different from the one where he reincarnates into a kid and tries to improve his village's living conditions/survival rate by teaching sanitation etc.). Soap is an old invention so it feels like they should be able to manage on figure it out before he got there but we usually just accept that. but the story requires that he'd have access to plenty of spare oil/fat that isn't being used for something more relevant, that we gloss over that much of the benefits we associate with modern soap comes from additives for scent/skincare/antimicrobial effects different from the basic hydrolipid that just makes it easier to remove grease, and for us to believe he could establish a culture of daily bathing where there wasn't one similar to the way Listerine convinced the world to gargle floor cleaner by making up a disease when they needed a new way to sell their product.

So, yeah, as we said there are a lot of different circumstances that lead to technological, scientific, and cultural developments that's specific to a civilization. It's also true that isekai authors pick and choose how their society develops for convenience and rarely explores it (By the Grace of the Gods goes into detail about how isekai'd people developed their worlds medical knowledge, then deteriorated it, and then built back up that understanding since to a point where they understand sanitation). Gonna be a bit mean here but I think most isekai authors aren't exactly intelligent and probably don't grasp ANYONE'S history well enough to make a good argument for any cause and effect in their world building.
More that they can't be bothered to do reasearch to create a coherent wolrbuilding. Take bathing. It's usually treated as non existant for the general populace, only for the privileged nobility.Yet while true that common people didn't have bathing capabilities in the house, there existed quite the system of public bathing in ancient history. Both the romans and other italian ethnic groups (like the sanniti) bathed and had quite the extensive culture around it. Islam have cleanliness as one of it's central ritual pillars, and while most of the focus is on ritual (spiritual) cleanliness the ritual involved have bathing as an extremely important part of it. While bathing in europe had it's share of declining and improving they were caused historical processes that could be possible to be adapted into a different setting and explored to make the worldbuilding more rich and realistic.
By the grace of the gods, attempted to do exactly this, and while the attempt is not, at my opinion, perfect, it's enough to make it in a position above the rest.
 
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Considering that we, as a modern society, did not truly even study or understand the formation of clouds or the nature of precipitation until relatively recently, 1700s-1800s, I really do not think this is that far fetched a thing. In fact, it would be pretty advanced for this society to even have a common understanding about how it works to the point of being able to speculate it's use for magic. It's elementary knowledge to us because we live in a relatively modern world with modern conveniences that allow us to learn this with ease, but I don't think this fantasy setting is on par with a 1700s-1800s time.

And even if they were, it wouldn't even be common knowledge amongst people, let alone knowledge that would be well understood enough by even anyone studying it for application. Especially since they have such a powerful social caste in place, it is even more likely very few even know the concept exists. I think it's totally fair to think that a society like this doesn't have a full grasp on cloud formation and weather.
the more exact historical theory of the water cycle was published in the 1580, tested scientifically in the 1670. They weren't much accepted in that period, but they existed.
More raws theories about the water cycle already existed by a lot of time (first one by Aristotile, that used the theories of his predecessors, which some were correct, albeit incomplete, another one was the chinese scientist Wang Chong in the first century CE), that were missing the part about the river volume maintenance (added in 1580 theory by Bernard Palissy), but were theoretically correct in the working of the water cycle.
 
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I'm a bit bummed that this was so one-sided with no fault/lackings on Aoi's side, because Foa's argument is how this thing would totally go outside of generic fantasy manga, at least to some degree.

There's no reason a reasonably advanced civilization like this wouldn't understand the basics of cloud formation, to the point where someone going "yeah steam/vapor rises and then it cools and makes clouds which come back down as rain" constitutes an actual lesson to the point that it lets students perform an original never-before-seen magic. That's the exact kinda thing where IRL a genius would go "it's just X and Y, it's that simple" and the students would go "...that doesn't really help me."

Like obviously it's manga and the author's not gonna write some high-end magical lecture here, but I just kind of eyeroll at the whole "isekai'd person blows fantasy world genius' minds with elementary school knowledge" trope whenever it shows up. It just tends to paint everyone else as morons to show how smart the MC is, without actually having to write them as that smart.
It's an academy of magic, not an academy of physics.

How much physics would an average student know if all your physics and possibly chemistry classes were replaced with magic, and PE was expanded to include combat? Mr. Foa might know a bit about the water cycle, but that's from general age and experience, and he's clearly locked his thinking within certain paradigms already.

This seems like the usual case of single-disciplinary specialization causing a critical blindspot in development.
 
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Bitch u were told ur bad at teaching so ur response is to stop research and become a bum? Da fuck? This man is weaker than the average preteen on Fortnite
 
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Rock seems still like to bragging, but not in harm way😂

overall this is what happens when modern science were combined with magic.

Note: being said, you probably can make a second sun out of this:meguupog:

 
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Well, from the tone of your post I think it's pretty clear you're not actually looking for any kind of discussion here, lmao. But yeah, go ahead and misrepresent my post as "yes every society must be exactly the same" if you want, I guess. Acknowledging that scientific advancements tend to help knowledge in other fields, and that there should be some rudimentary knowledge of the natural world for a society that's shown to otherwise be technologically equivalent to medival europe, is not the same thing as saying "all societies are the same". I don't even know where the part of your post about third world countries came from, because the advancement rate of separate societies and the advancement of disciplines within a single society are entirely different things.

Heck, looking back at it, Foa even says "certainly, the magic she uses is like a miniature version of the actual phenomenon", meaning it isn't even something they don't know, because he's able to confirm that it matches the science. That's even worse than I thought initially, because it's not even that they don't know about the water cycle, but that they do, and nobody thought to ever try to emulate the water cycle with water magic until Aoi said "hey why don't you try to do it with magic" with no further explanation? Really? That just feels ridiculous.
Just like numerous japanese author, this one also underestimated human, as a species too much. FFS someone made aeolipile in 30 BC :lol: . This shit reminded me so much of a certain manga where the mc invent. . . a wheel. One of the oldest invention of mankind.
 

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