Jimi na Kensei wa Sore Demo Saikyou desu - Vol. 10 Ch. 84

[MangaDex]

 

[Gold_Scale]

Guys show me some support by donating it's voluntary i will still keep working on this, cause my fishing trip the boat i rent cost more than the fish i caught.

 

[razorshaleh]

i see, brocon acute before got husbad dan this scene is like giving candy to children

thank you for translating

Guys show me some support by donating it's voluntary i will still keep working on this, cause my fishing trip the boat i rent cost more than the fish i caught.

man, you so lovey fishing. i proud

 

[Diamona]

Uwaah. I don't think any amount of strength is worth being called "The Fierce God" by young ladies. Poor Suiboku, but he probably earned it.

 

[Mafeb]

So the cheating will never be addressed, got it

 

[horradorable]

So the priestess' were legitimately just nabbed and forced into this???? Is that not also a huge diplomatic problem if they talk about it when they go back home???

 

[Abricomas]

So the cheating will never be addressed, got it

Given how much the manga is skipping over what was covered in the LN, yeah, it won't.
Though I don't remember it having much effect in the LN either.
And does it really matter when the purpose of the exhibition matches was to trounce the users of Divine Possession and force them out of their complacency?
To try something new, to give Divine Possession a way to overcome one of its shortcomings, was one of the reasons that Sunae and Toun put on this show of absolutely dominating the Mujan Kingdom.
And considering that these are princesses of neighboring kingdoms, how do you think that would reflect on their Royal Families, if you accuse them of cheating? It is not in the interests of the Arcana Kingdom to cause political instability in this region; what they want is for the governments to remain stable but for the nations to want to open up their markets to future trade with the Arcana Kingdom, something that needed a desire to look outward to be sparked, which was done by putting on this exhibition tournament.

The LN hammers home time and time again that just looking at what is right in front of you without considering the greater context of your surroundings and how your actions can affect more than what you intended is the sign of someone who is immature, just like Saiga, Shozou, Ukyou, Ran, the four Tempera Village girls, and even Sukrin.

 

[Abricomas]

So the priestess' were legitimately just nabbed and forced into this???? Is that not also a huge diplomatic problem if they talk about it when they go back home???

Why? As Echesachs said, and they themselves confirmed, the shrine maidens aren't from Tempera Village or the Arcana Kingdom. They're from a completely different nation, called Seru, that they had essentially left without permission.

 

[nubletcakii]

Given how much the manga is skipping over what was covered in the LN, yeah, it won't.
Though I don't remember it having much effect in the LN either.
And does it really matter when the purpose of the exhibition matches was to trounce the users of Divine Possession and force them out of their complacency?
To try something new, to give Divine Possession a way to overcome one of its shortcomings, was one of the reasons that Sunae and Toun put on this show of absolutely dominating the Mujan Kingdom.
And considering that these are princesses of neighboring kingdoms, how do you think that would reflect on their Royal Families, if you accuse them of cheating? It is not in the interests of the Arcana Kingdom to cause political instability in this region; what they want is for the governments to remain stable but for the nations to want to open up their markets to future trade with the Arcana Kingdom, something that needed a desire to look outward to be sparked, which was done by putting on this exhibition tournament.

The LN hammers home time and time again that just looking at what is right in front of you without considering the greater context of your surroundings and how your actions can affect more than what you intended is the sign of someone who is immature, just like Saiga, Shozou, Ukyou, Ran, the four Tempera Village girls, and even Sukrin.

Its more why even include it as a plot point? No matches were lost due to the power up nor did the divine possessed perform better than usual. There are no political ramifications for either side and outside of Sansui the combatants don't even acknowledge that something unfair occurred. You could remove their existence and nothing would have changed.

Considering their faith in the Divine Possessed its weird they even considered cheating since it goes against their own core beliefs of the absolute strength of their abilities.

 

[TheGreatALBundy]

I wouldn't really call the Queen's attempt to put her son on the throne despite not having 'divine possession' a rebellion, author. Also why is the MC paying? Make the soon-to-be King pay for these people to go home. It's HIS mom as well who was messing up, right? Sheesh.

 

[Abricomas]

Its more why even include it as a plot point? No matches were lost due to the power up nor did the divine possessed perform better than usual. There are no political ramifications for either side and outside of Sansui the combatants don't even acknowledge that something unfair occurred. You could remove their existence and nothing would have changed.

Considering their faith in the Divine Possessed its weird they even considered cheating since it goes against their own core beliefs of the absolute strength of their abilities.

The girls from Seru were likely included as setup for something to happen when Sansui goes there.

And Sukrin did acknowledge that the one major weakness of Divine Possession is the amount of mana it uses. They're not blind to its flaws, they just thought that it would let them power through anything that the people from Arcana could bring.
AND in Chapter 74, Princess Kayou was kited and tired out by Konoko from the Illusion Sect, so Sukrin and the other princesses had advance warning that getting tired out would be one of the ways that they could lose.
So for the princesses, they were made to realize that even WITH cheating, they got their asses handed to them, reinforcing that they need to expand their horizons.

What was missed here but was covered in the LN was that the princesses, and the Royals, realized that Divine Possession could have easily won against the Tempera Village girls, if the princesses had just changed how they fought, or knew what was coming. So in terms of narrative, using the shrine maidens reinforces again a lesson about fighting and life that Sansui and Suiboku have tried to hammer home throughout the story.
Be adaptable. Keep aware of your surroundings. Don't be monotonous.
Chapter 68 is another example of this lesson being repeated.

 

[Abricomas]

I wouldn't really call the Queen's attempt to put her son on the throne despite not having 'divine possession' a rebellion, author. Also why is the MC paying? Make the soon-to-be King pay for these people to go home. It's HIS mom as well who was messing up, right? Sheesh.

No, Sukrin isn't Heki's mother. He's the half-brother, so different mother. And what she was trying to do was high treason. The LN mentions that there was enough grass roots support for Toun that it could have caused a civil war, so it would have been a rebellion if she had been able to spark it.

And Sansui is paying because of the trouble that his master, Suiboku, caused in the land of Seru. The girls were already out of money when they were picked up by Sukrin.

 

[nubletcakii]

The girls from Seru were likely included as setup for something to happen when Sansui goes there.

And Sukrin did acknowledge that the one major weakness of Divine Possession is the amount of mana it uses. They're not blind to its flaws, they just thought that it would let them power through anything that the people from Arcana could bring.
AND in Chapter 74, Princess Kayou was kited and tired out by Konoko from the Illusion Sect, so Sukrin and the other princesses had advance warning that getting tired out would be one of the ways that they could lose.
So for the princesses, they were made to realize that even WITH cheating, they got their asses handed to them, reinforcing that they need to expand their horizons.

What was missed here but was covered in the LN was that the princesses, and the Royals, realized that Divine Possession could have easily won against the Tempera Village girls, if the princesses had just changed how they fought, or knew what was coming. So in terms of narrative, using the shrine maidens reinforces again a lesson about fighting and life that Sansui and Suiboku have tried to hammer home throughout the story.
Be adaptable. Keep aware of your surroundings. Don't be monotonous.
Chapter 68 is another example of this lesson being repeated.

At the end of the day the girls still did not need to have been introduced via cheating. They could've just approached Sansui just like how they did in this chapter and ask "Do you know suiboku and can you help us" and narratively nothing would've changed. In chapter 74 they could've changed it to be "we should end the fight more quickly before they can employ tricks since we're so much stronger" which is in fact how the manga did portray every single fight. Every fight ended in like two panels with frontal head on attacks which makes the whole improving our mana through cheating pointless. The novel bit describing different tactics to win the fights has no bearing on if they cheated or not since it'll work whether they were empowered or not.

Essentially its still why add the cheating bit if it has no meaningful impact on the plot? All it does is make Sukirin(not sure how to spell the mothers name) less sympathetic and devious in a really shallow way.

 

[HelioCesar]

I wonder if the novels ever tackled or will tackle his life after all this, if i remember correctly it was stated that the cheat guy (Saiga) while having sage skills will age normally, so after some decades when Brauer, Dewey, Rain and all the other people age and die, what will be of him? It would be interesting seeing he being a kind of mentor for his bloody line spanning from his child with Brauer.
But, seeing the time the WN is in hiatus and going by other works i don't think the author will tackle it or even really thought about this, makes one wonder what is the end goal of the story, this one is a bit hard to see.

 

[Abricomas]

At the end of the day the girls still did not need to have been introduced via cheating. They could've just approached Sansui just like how they did in this chapter and ask "Do you know suiboku and can you help us" and narratively nothing would've changed. In chapter 74 they could've changed it to be "we should end the fight more quickly before they can employ tricks since we're so much stronger" which is in fact how the manga did portray every single fight. Every fight ended in like two panels with frontal head on attacks which makes the whole improving our mana through cheating pointless. The novel bit describing different tactics to win the fights has no bearing on if they cheated or not since it'll work whether they were empowered or not.

Essentially its still why add the cheating bit if it has no meaningful impact on the plot? All it does is make Sukirin(not sure how to spell the mothers name) less sympathetic and devious in a really shallow way.

How would they have approached Sansui, who is in the Royal Palace, there are guards everywhere, and they would have had no letter of recommendation or introduction that would get them inside. In fact, how would they have even known that Sansui, as Suiboku's disciple, would have been in the country if they hadn't been picked up and taken to the Royal Palace?
That sounds like it would require a setup even more contrived than what happened.

And the manga didn't portray the princesses trying to end each fight as quickly as possible.
The first fight, Shanchi tried to be careful once she realized that she could get cut, but that ended up giving the initiative to Yabiya.
The second fight, Kesri tried to be cautious from the start, and didn't attack because she was on guard against getting cut, but that just gave Suji an opportunity to trap the battlefield.
Yes, in the third fight Hinse tried to end the fight as quickly as possible.
But in the fourth fight, Shoki used the tactic known to be effective against berserkers, which is basically a battle of attrition, and the extra boost in power from the Priestess Arts would have been the most effective.
So no, the manga did not portray every fight as the princesses trying to end the fights as quickly as they could.

And what's also important is that the usage of Priestess Arts was only meant to be a counter to one tactic that the princesses had seen be used; they didn't say that it would make them stronger, just that it would let them last longer and not lose due to Divine Possession's one fatal flaw that they had recognized. That very recognition of Divine Possession's limitations, and attempting to find countermeasures, is what Sunae and Toun were trying to get Majan and its neighbors to do. It could be seen as the author trying to show that the people who believe in Divine Possession aren't stupid, just ignorant, and that when given new information, they will attempt to intelligently adapt within the framework of their worldview.

 

[Abricomas]

I wonder if the novels ever tackled or will tackle his life after all this, if i remember correctly it was stated that the cheat guy (Saiga) while having sage skills will age normally, so after some decades when Brauer, Dewey, Rain and all the other people age and die, what will be of him? It would be interesting seeing he being a kind of mentor for his bloody line spanning from his child with Brauer.
But, seeing the time the WN is in hiatus and going by other works i don't think the author will tackle it or even really thought about this, makes one wonder what is the end goal of the story, this one is a bit hard to see.

I saw that the LN just came out of hiatus this year; Volume 10 isn't translated yet, though.
In the books, Sansui thought about this a couple times, and he originally intended to go back up into the mountains to continue his training with Suiboku. I don't remember him thinking about what he will do after he learned about Brauer's pregnancy, though, so he might come up with a different goal in the new volume.

Spoiler: LN Vol 9 spoiler

In Volume 9, at the end there's mention made that there are dragons, who are working behind the scenes to instigate war with Arcana, and likely, Sansui and Suiboku. And Disaea, the duchy that controls Shun, the wielder of Pandora, has a hidden Reincarnator who is supposedly equal to Sansui.

 

[nubletcakii]

How would they have approached Sansui, who is in the Royal Palace, there are guards everywhere, and they would have had no letter of recommendation or introduction that would get them inside. In fact, how would they have even known that Sansui, as Suiboku's disciple, would have been in the country if they hadn't been picked up and taken to the Royal Palace?
That sounds like it would require a setup even more contrived than what happened.

And the manga didn't portray the princesses trying to end each fight as quickly as possible.
The first fight, Shanchi tried to be careful once she realized that she could get cut, but that ended up giving the initiative to Yabiya.
The second fight, Kesri tried to be cautious from the start, and didn't attack because she was on guard against getting cut, but that just gave Suji an opportunity to trap the battlefield.
Yes, in the third fight Hinse tried to end the fight as quickly as possible.
But in the fourth fight, Shoki used the tactic known to be effective against berserkers, which is basically a battle of attrition, and the extra boost in power from the Priestess Arts would have been the most effective.
So no, the manga did not portray every fight as the princesses trying to end the fights as quickly as they could.

And what's also important is that the usage of Priestess Arts was only meant to be a counter to one tactic that the princesses had seen be used; they didn't say that it would make them stronger, just that it would let them last longer and not lose due to Divine Possession's one fatal flaw that they had recognized. That very recognition of Divine Possession's limitations, and attempting to find countermeasures, is what Sunae and Toun were trying to get Majan and its neighbors to do. It could be seen as the author trying to show that the people who believe in Divine Possession aren't stupid, just ignorant, and that when given new information, they will attempt to intelligently adapt within the framework of their worldview.

I mean how did they approach and contact Sansui right now if thats your concern? They're kidnapped/enslaved(not sure the actual status) foreigners yet they can freely around the palace and enter the heir apparent's room. Regardless they're introduced in chapter 77 when they're already in the palace so Its more than enough to have them watch the fight and then have eckesachs talk to them since hes the one that identifies them in the first place. I'm not saying they can't be still kidnapped, they just didn't need to be introduced as a cheating mechanism.

Shanchi attacks without caution then gets countered and says "what is that hand?" and is defeated within the next page. You can't say anything about her change in thought patterns other than surprise as she literally does nothing else after getting her paw cut. Yabiya just follows up her original attack basically.

Kesri does show caution, but again the main point of this argument is why even include the priestess. Shes defeated in 3 pages without doing anything so no mana was used.

Shoki is probably the most apparent use case, but it most likely wouldn't have mattered anyways since Shoki makes one attack before getten beaten down so the fight overall was still short. I mean I'll concede this fight so w/e.

Essentially it didn't matter for 3 fights if the cheating did not exist you could draw the fight the EXACT same way and nothing would change. It could've mattered for the 4th fight, but Shoki was still defeated quickly and Ran doesn't make a comment if Shoki was enduring more than was a Divine Possesed would normally. So if the priestess did nothing it could've been drawn the exact same and nothing would've changed.

They could've easily showcased that Royalty know Divine Possession isn't omnipotent, but they don't take Kayous report seriously and just say "it was a vulgar victory" and not taking the opponents seriously. All it shows is arrogance not intelligence. Opting to cheat instead of earnestly trying to figure out why Sunae has faith in her fighters does'nt show they're ignorant it just shows short-sightedness, petty, and deviousness. Its fine to portray Sukirin like that, but the main issue me and the original poster has is that theres no ramifications for this.

If Sukurin's actions are seen as rebellion then its extremely useful for the sitting reagency to use it against Sukurin to lower her prestige and remove support for her by exposing it or use it as a reason to punish her privately. Why show a chekov gun and then refuse to use it?

 

[Abricomas]

I mean how did they approach and contact Sansui right now if thats your concern? They're kidnapped/enslaved(not sure the actual status) foreigners yet they can freely around the palace and enter the heir apparent's room. Regardless they're introduced in chapter 77 when they're already in the palace so Its more than enough to have them watch the fight and then have eckesachs talk to them since hes the one that identifies them in the first place. I'm not saying they can't be still kidnapped, they just didn't need to be introduced as a cheating mechanism.

Shanchi attacks without caution then gets countered and says "what is that hand?" and is defeated within the next page. You can't say anything about her change in thought patterns other than surprise as she literally does nothing else after getting her paw cut. Yabiya just follows up her original attack basically.

Kesri does show caution, but again the main point of this argument is why even include the priestess. Shes defeated in 3 pages without doing anything so no mana was used.

Shoki is probably the most apparent use case, but it most likely wouldn't have mattered anyways since Shoki makes one attack before getten beaten down so the fight overall was still short. I mean I'll concede this fight so w/e.

Essentially it didn't matter for 3 fights if the cheating did not exist you could draw the fight the EXACT same way and nothing would change. It could've mattered for the 4th fight, but Shoki was still defeated quickly and Ran doesn't make a comment if Shoki was enduring more than was a Divine Possesed would normally. So if the priestess did nothing it could've been drawn the exact same and nothing would've changed.

They could've easily showcased that Royalty know Divine Possession isn't omnipotent, but they don't take Kayous report seriously and just say "it was a vulgar victory" and not taking the opponents seriously. All it shows is arrogance not intelligence. Opting to cheat instead of earnestly trying to figure out why Sunae has faith in her fighters does'nt show they're ignorant it just shows short-sightedness, petty, and deviousness. Its fine to portray Sukirin like that, but the main issue me and the original poster has is that theres no ramifications for this.

If Sukurin's actions are seen as rebellion then its extremely useful for the sitting reagency to use it against Sukurin to lower her prestige and remove support for her by exposing it or use it as a reason to punish her privately. Why show a chekov gun and then refuse to use it?

In the LN, the priestesses sent some of their power to be detected by Sansui, and that can be seen here as well when Sansui detected their presence outside the door. That worked because they knew where he was; it wouldn't have worked if they didn't know his location.

And the usage of Priestess Arts allowed all of the princesses to not be concerned with energy usage. It served the purpose of not allowing the princesses to use that excuse, that they had to conserve their energy, as a factor in their defeat.
The very act of calling upon Divine Possession and being in that state uses up mana, as seen when Kayou was fighting.

I believe that the usage of a cheating method served a purpose in the story, even if it didn't make any visual changes for the viewer. It's like the "power-ups" that Saiga had before his rematches with Sansui, the guards getting bowled over by Fuukei, and any number of other instances in the series where the resistance was useless and showing it onscreen made no difference as to the result, but the fact that it was attempted made a difference to the characters.

And how would exposing Sukrin's cheating help the regency? She already lost support due to the victories won by Arcana and the public support of the regency by Toun. The surrounding nations aren't going to support her now since she and her supporters lost in such a public and decisive manner. In fact, all exposing the cheating would do is besmirch the reputation of the Royal Family that allowed it to happen in the first place, and the princesses who took advantage of it, and still lost.

 

[HelioCesar]

I saw that the LN just came out of hiatus this year; Volume 10 isn't translated yet, though.
In the books, Sansui thought about this a couple times, and he originally intended to go back up into the mountains to continue his training with Suiboku. I don't remember him thinking about what he will do after he learned about Brauer's pregnancy, though, so he might come up with a different goal in the new volume.

Spoiler: LN Vol 9 spoiler

In Volume 9, at the end there's mention made that there are dragons, who are working behind the scenes to instigate war with Arcana, and likely, Sansui and Suiboku. And Disaea, the duchy that controls Shun, the wielder of Pandora, has a hidden Reincarnator who is supposedly equal to Sansui.

Hmm, lets see how the adaptation tackles this.
But i understand better now the whys behind a good chunk of the backlash this series gets, while i am not an advocate for cookie cutter power fantasy stories that are popular nowadays, this story foundation is built in lego knockoff bricks, Sansui was killed by accident, gets a wish as compensation, wishes to be the strongest, and gets it how? In a monkey's paw/gennie way.
"Want to be strong? So train for centuries and receive an immortals fate!" not even counting the sage arts killing his carnal wishes and numbing his emotions, most people would be bitter as hell with the god, could be more humane and interesting if this was explored in the plot as a major point. Sansui seems to not care for it initially when he accepts caring for Rain, but it would be a good development as he sees her and his child with Brauer growing.
Yeah, i know it's only played quickly as a joke start-up for the plot, and one could tell authors use theses tactics now because 'slop' sells, so they start their series like this to get an initial traction, but that's kinda of in a bad faith thing to do.

Anyway, all this yap to say i expected a bit more of this series going by what i am seeing is planned for it haha, mostly a me problem i guess.

While at it, going back to see somethings. Can you please tell if this was brought up at any point?

 

[Abricomas]

Hmm, lets see how the adaptation tackles this.
But i understand better now the whys behind a good chunk of the backlash this series gets, while i am not an advocate for cookie cutter power fantasy stories that are popular nowadays, this story foundation is built in lego knockoff bricks, Sansui was killed by accident, gets a wish as compensation, wishes to be the strongest, and gets it how? In a monkey's paw/gennie way.
"Want to be strong? So train for centuries and receive an immortals fate!" not even counting the sage arts killing his carnal wishes and numbing his emotions, most people would be bitter as hell with the god, could be more humane and interesting if this was explored in the plot as a major point.
Yeah, i know it's only played quickly as a joke start-up for the plot, and one could tell authors use theses tactics now because 'slop' sells, so they start their series like this to get an initial traction, but that's kinda of in a bad faith thing to do.

Anyway, all this yap to say i expected a bit more of this series going by what i am seeing is planned for it haha, mostly a me problem i guess.

Spoiler: LN 6 spoilers

Back in Volume 6 of the LN, which would have been Volume 7 of the manga, Suiboku is talking with everyone after the fight with Fuukei but before Sansui returns.

Everyone who came into contact with Sansui asked the question at least once: why was a man who was so powerful willing to listen to the orders of mere mortals and contents to serve them?

Suiboku's answer:

"I didn't want him to become a shallow, pathetic wretch who only wanted to fight those who were strong enough to amuse him, a brute who couldn't admit defeat, a lowlife who simply wanted to bask in the easy win."

My opinion is that a lot of the backlash to this series is from people who want to see Isekai MC's that fall directly into that category that Suiboku wanted Sansui to avoid. Look at Saiga, before Sansui straightened him out. Look at Shozou and Ukyo.
While not spelled out explicitly like it was in the LN, the manga does still show Sansui trying to live up to that ideal, and Suiboku still regretting that past of his, even if it does get played for laughs at times.

As for expecting more, Sansui is supposed to go to the land of the Sages with Suiboku, so that's probably where they're going to explore the idea of the immortality and lack of human desires that the Sages have, how it separates them from the rest of Humanity, and if holing up away from the world in seclusion is really the way to happiness if one's very existence can have such a distorting effect on civilization.