Jinrouki Winvurga Hangyaku-hen

[zurickuu]

So it's possible zane has aged enough to be a dilf and he is mind controlled like mashiro father?
Or they just killed him?
I assume hibana would still be alive as a baby factory at worst.

There is another possibility, if time goes a lot slower in that Dominator dimension then maybe the children of zane and hibana were taken to another dimension to grow and that could mean the characters in the Dominator dimension like mashiro gloria etc.. haven't aged much?

 

[VRaptorX]

Given that they want to breed better pilots and somehow that’s a genetic trait…. I imagine Zane has been used to breed many different people. Or at least that would make sense ala race horse breeding.

 

[BegoneThoth]

I'm under the impression that you went through the entire thread at once, including our past conversations before newer information were revealed. Which got you confused. So... let's have a little review on these characters!

-The new MC named Win, the girl w/ dark blue hair, is the reincarnation of of Winvurga, which was the old MC's mecha.
-The old MC is Mashiro Mueller, the girl w/ long, cream white hair. Presumably still held captive in Void Avern as of the present day, the home of the bad guys.
-The girl w/ blindfold is named Nigou (JP word for number 2). She's the master of the current Void Win is living at. People assumed before that she's Mashiro after several years of aging because they both have long white hair. However, the hair color doesn't actually match. Nigo has bluish white hair, which isn't really noticeable in the regular pages. But she has multiple colored artworks, usually found on the author's Twitter page that confirm it's bluish white. As of now, she's presented as a separate person from Mashiro.

Nigou is entirely new then? Like she hasn't been around or hinted at until her introduction? Was it explained why she's so crippled? She was called out for actually being able to stand when she said she couldn't and laughed it off. iirc those were parts of the reasoning why she is Mashiro (the meaningful mask trope and the like). And can we really place emphasis on hair color with all the shenanigans in this series? (To be clear that last question isn't meant to be aggressive)



The new MC is her child right? Or is that one still unaccounted for?

Ughh this series is so silly. The new girl is the super soldier the Chinese woman wanted to make, yet she somehow escaped. And with a powerful mecha at that. But there should be plenty of them based on the time the Chinese woman had available and the production time required, no?

And the guy in the flashback is the same as the guy in the present right? Or is only the guy in the flashback Zane?

 

[SmithsonianRage]

Looking through jp fans on twitter that got their hands on the new volume 5(chapters 26-33), Tsunashima apparently left a passage saying ,"The story in volume 5 was rejected by the previous magazine publishers during the original Winvurga run. So when I decided to switch magazines, I decided to stick with the rejected content. I'm not even sure myself if this will end up being a good or bad thing. But I don't have any intention of stopping, so please see it through to the end."

This guy talking about seeing things through to the end yet while never actually writing an ending LOL

 

[SmithsonianRage]

Nigou is entirely new then? Like she hasn't been around or hinted at until her introduction? Was it explained why she's so crippled? She was called out for actually being able to stand when she said she couldn't and laughed it off. iirc those were parts of the reasoning why she is Mashiro (the meaningful mask trope and the like). And can we really place emphasis on hair color with all the shenanigans in this series? (To be clear that last question isn't meant to be aggressive)

I have an idea who Nigou is but you need to know Jinki lore for that. Nigou isn't really crippled either. She was already very old, but creating the island that everyone lives on in the current Void took a lot of energy from her. Which is why she can barely move anymore.

I think the Mashiro/Nigou theory falls apart pretty quickly if you read the series. Not trying to be a dick, but you said yourself that you were a tourist, right?

The new MC is her child right? Or is that one still unaccounted for?

"-The new MC named Win, the girl w/ dark blue hair, is the reincarnation of of Winvurga, which was the old MC's mecha."

Ughh this series is so silly. The new girl is the super soldier the Chinese woman wanted to make, yet she somehow escaped. And with a powerful mecha at that. But there should be plenty of them based on the time the Chinese woman had available and the production time required, no?

We'll see next month.

And the guy in the flashback is the same as the guy in the present right? Or is only the guy in the flashback Zane?

I think you might be mixing up the timelines a bit. Chapter 39 is already a flashback, and the male character being focused on there is Zayne/Zane.

 

[VRaptorX]

Looking through jp fans on twitter that got their hands on the new volume 5(chapters 26-33), Tsunashima apparently left a passage saying ,"The story in volume 5 was rejected by the previous magazine publishers during the original Winvurga run. So when I decided to switch magazines, I decided to stick with the rejected content. I'm not even sure myself if this will end up being a good or bad thing. But I don't have any intention of stopping, so please see it through to the end."

This guy talking about seeing things through to the end yet while never actually writing an ending LOL

Okay, so I don’t remember if I said this here or on Reddit but, this basically confirms a suspicion I had with this story.

Win is not the main character. Win never was supposed to be. I always felt something was off, but I couldn’t quite figure it out. I assumed win was just not very proactive, and would maybe eventually come out of their shell. But a lot of what win did was just no “hey, where is Mashiro?” Win wasn’t leading the plot, Mashiro was despite being absent.

And this is why.

The author never wanted to write win’s group. They wanted to write Mashiro’s group.

Win is not the lead character. Win is the sick kid and grandpa in the princess bride. This entire thing is just a framing device that for some ungodly reason took 25 chapters to set up.

Sigh.

I kinda wish the author got their way now. We’d be past all these “flashback” issues and be thoroughly in the “okay, what next? How do they escape” phase.

Also gonna post this on Reddit so I cover my bases.

 

[VRaptorX]

Just thought of something. If we started rebellion with the Gloria stuff, win being destroyed, Mashiro caught, etc….then when Mashiro senses win is still alive. When that happens, only then, do we cut to human win waking up.

If we did that, and crossed-cut between Mashiro’s group and win’s group, this could probably flow a whole lot better, and allow for more shock factor in some of these twists.

Like, literally right now, with Zane’s kid. Everyone called that so long ago. Heck, we knew about the time difference in voids ages ago so every time any character debuted people started going “oh is that X and Y’s kid?”

But, if we started in the flashbacks, then cut between flashbacks and present… by the time we got here, the audience would still think we’re watching whatever Mashiro’s group is doing in real time. We’d think only a week or so has past. We’d think that soon these groups will merge for the rescue arc.

That makes the revelation of Zane and Hina’s kid a real gut punch. If THAT was how we learned about time dilation in voids, then we would suddenly also realize that we’re watching things that happened decades ago. It makes the twist actually hurt instead of “I called it.”

Then, we start showing scenes with “old Mashiro” right after the reveal.

Okay, maybe that last bit is pushing it too far. But I still think that starting with volume 5 first would have allowed a better flow of information and narrative in this story.

 

[BegoneThoth]

I have an idea who Nigou is but you need to know Jinki lore for that. Nigou isn't really crippled either. She was already very old, but creating the island that everyone lives on in the current Void took a lot of energy from her. Which is why she can barely move anymore.

I think the Mashiro/Nigou theory falls apart pretty quickly if you read the series. Not trying to be a dick, but you said yourself that you were a tourist, right?

"-The new MC named Win, the girl w/ dark blue hair, is the reincarnation of of Winvurga, which was the old MC's mecha."

We'll see next month.

I think you might be mixing up the timelines a bit. Chapter 39 is already a flashback, and the male character being focused on there is Zayne/Zane.

So your theory is that she's a character from the sorta prequels (Jinki)? On that note, is it acceptable to refer to them as prequels? And yes, I would rather be considered a tourist than fan of this series lol. No harm, no foul.



I get that the new MC is the reincarnation, but isn't the ongoing theory that she's also the old MC's child? So the mecha reincarnated as her child. Or has that theory been scrapped? Like the memory magic would only have shown the rape because she's related to them right? And it's only now that she got an upgraded version that she's able to jump from the new girl's memory of the rape to the victim's memory of their defeat and capture. I have that much right?


On the subject of the villains, up till this point it's been standard conquer the world evil mixed with their own infertility correct? So there isn't any particular reason for them to be trying to breed a super-solider that would naturally be opposed to them, or am I missing something there? Not including the spindler (sp.?) thing that comes up now and again. And since I'm spewing so many questions I'll ask one again that I didn't see an answer for. The new woman, and her squad, were a little Chinese. Would that be odd or are these space-Nazi actually kind of multi-cultural? Maybe Fascists would be more accurate I dunno.

 

[SmithsonianRage]

Win is not the main character. Win never was supposed to be.

Honestly, I have a different interpretation of things after that new text.

OG Winvurga was probably always going to have a tragic ending where we see all the characters getting defeated and captured. And Rebellion would've been teased in the last pages in OG with Win waking up. So Win was always going to be the main character in Rebellion.

The problem though is that there was the clusterfuck with the editors during OG Winvurga. Obviously, he couldn't just start exactly from where he left off from OG Winvurga in a new magazine. So Win being the MC just happened way sooner.

Tsunashima obviously cares more about finishing OG Winvurga so Win's character just seems like a footnote lmao

 

[SmithsonianRage]

So your theory is that she's a character from the sorta prequels (Jinki)? On that note, is it acceptable to refer to them as prequels? And yes, I would rather be considered a tourist than fan of this series lol. No harm, no foul.



I get that the new MC is the reincarnation, but isn't the ongoing theory that she's also the old MC's child? So the mecha reincarnated as her child. Or has that theory been scrapped? Like the memory magic would only have shown the rape because she's related to them right? And it's only now that she got an upgraded version that she's able to jump from the new girl's memory of the rape to the victim's memory of their defeat and capture. I have that much right?


On the subject of the villains, up till this point it's been standard conquer the world evil mixed with their own infertility correct? So there isn't any particular reason for them to be trying to breed a super-solider that would naturally be opposed to them, or am I missing something there? Not including the spindler (sp.?) thing that comes up now and again. And since I'm spewing so many questions I'll ask one again that I didn't see an answer for. The new woman, and her squad, were a little Chinese. Would that be odd or are these space-Nazi actually kind of multi-cultural? Maybe Fascists would be more accurate I dunno.

You're trolling lol

 

[TaurusRex]

Win is not the main character. Win never was supposed to be.

I disagree with this. I believe Winvurga/Win was always meant to be a main character. Either alongside Mashiro, or the true single MC hidden behind Mashiro.
The title is Jinrouki Winvurga, after all. XD

 

[TaurusRex]

I have an idea who Nigou is

Please tell us who you think it is.

The new woman, and her squad, were a little Chinese.

That woman and her army was a different faction fighting the Dominators. They got defeated, she was a sellout, got integrated into the Dominator side as a pilot breeder. So the Chinese theme is not from inside the Dominators.

There is another possibility, if time goes a lot slower in that Dominator dimension then maybe the children of zane and hibana were taken to another dimension to grow and that could mean the characters in the Dominator dimension like mashiro gloria etc.. haven't aged much?

That makes sense. Unless they want to send out the Supreme Commander every time one of the thousands of Spindlers appears, they need to keep their numbers up. Have them breed inside Void Avern. Bring the baby to a faster Void so they grow up quick and be used either as a pilot or the next baby factory. If Hibana and Zane's baby was taken outside of the Void, the defenses would be weaker during transport or at the external facilities. So it would be easier for someone to take her away from them.

...

So far, the Dominators have destroyed/partially destroyed the following known resistance factions (that we know of):
1. OG Avant Rouge (Nameless grunts, status unknown. Leaders dead/captured.)
2. Mashiro's Avant Rouge (Leader and ace pilots captured, remaining forces w/ Win.)
3. Cell Green (I think that's the faction name) (Leader burned alive. Footage used by Snow to make a deepfake of Avant Rouge's leader.)
4. Louise Opinion (Gloria captured, Folka dead, Midori MIA.)
5. Yao(?)'s Chinese-themed faction (Yao defected to Dominator, all members captured)

Currently surviving factions (that we know of):
1. Win's group, consisting of smaller groups that aren't quite united yet under one goal...
2. Amatsu no Yomi (technically standing despite having lost Avant Rouge, but they're also technically defenseless. Only ace pilot is Mashiro's step dad, but he doesn't have a Jinki anymore. Aoka's Jinki & song are useless if she's not supporting someone else.)
3. Unnamed faction consisting of knights. (not confirmed if they have Jinkis. Or maybe they just go at it w/ their swords.)
4. Mashiro's real dad who is totally not resembling a Jinki character's silhouette... (If you can even consider one man an army.)

 

[VRaptorX]

Okay, yeah that makes sense. Hina could have given birth yesterday and then 18 years passed elsewhere. That is true.

And yes, winvurga is in the name of the title. However, a decoy protagonist situation only works if the actual protagonist is more interesting than the decoy. Win is just so boring.

But yeah. I could see the OG series ending with Mashiro being captured, and win waking up as a human as a tease for the next story. That may have been the original idea, with that flower representing how much longer she would last. We then establish very early win’s magical futa.

Yeah, I see it being possible/likely. But it still doesn’t help that win is so much more boring than Mashiro.

I wonder, if the OG series ended the way the author wanted, if win would have remembered what happened and we could have skipped the endless “wait. I’m looking for someone. What happened? I don’t know” aspect and hit the ground running.

 

[BegoneThoth]

You're trolling lol

Not sure why you would think that.

1. I would point out that other commenters also seem curious about who Nigou is.
2. One commenter did answer the Chinese question and expanded upon it to be even more informative.
3. I think a neutral third-part who read said commenter's post, let alone all these inter-connected series, would understand that this series might be confusing to some. Even you claim that one of the central characters in this story is actually a character from a different story that would be a prequel to a prequel. And your claim is substantiated because, in colored pages, said character's hair is bluish. I'll admit to loling at that being the evidence, but I didn't think that would come across as offensive.

 

[SmithsonianRage]

Please tell us who you think it is.

Want to establish some things about Nigou first.

-Nigou is a reincarnated Jinki, just like Kyuu and Win. The series establishes that Jinkis only reincarnate when they form a deep personal bond with their pilot.
-The issue with most OG Winvurga Jinki is age. Nigou is clearly ancient. Even accounting for Void time dilation, she demonstrates knowledge about the Winvurga universe that almost nobody else has. The only characters remotely comparable in that regard are figures tied to the earliest eras of the Voids, which is just the Supreme Commander so far.

Her current condition also mirrors the Supreme Commander. He existed around the time the Voids were created and is slowly dying, while Nigou herself admits that she is slowly dying.

Because of that, the list of possible identities becomes very small. The only Jinkis explicitly implied to be old enough are the Star Series Jinki(while the Dominators are seemingly responsible for making them, Nemuro's relative reveals that Star Series Jinki
So with that, we have basically established that the only Jinki Nigou could have reincarnated from is a Jinki that existed before the creation of the Voids or a little bit after.

Considering that, the list of candidates is incredibly low. I ordered the list below by who I think has the biggest chance to be Nigou:

Spoiler: Spoilers

-Moribito 2, the main mecha in the Jinki series, piloted by all the main characters in that series
-Winvein(Most Jinkis have a soul, but Winvein was effectively already "dead" when Win first piloted it. And Winvein is actually a Tenseiki, a Jinki that existed from the beginning of the Voids.)

 

[SmithsonianRage]

Yeah, I see it being possible/likely. But it still doesn’t help that win is so much more boring than Mashiro.

Win would've probably been a more interesting character if OG Winvurga ended how Tsunashima wanted it too. The problem right now in Rebellion is that we have to get through all the OG Winvurga characters being raped because he didn't get to do it in the OG Winvurga. More than a quarter of the current serialization is dedicated just for that.

If we took out all the rape flashbacks and Magico's scene, Win would've probably already been in a different Void at this point.

 

[VRaptorX]

The flashbacks aren’t a problem for win’s characterization. There’s been plenty of time in and out of battle to get a good idea of who win is as a person.

This is like saying you can only have good gameplay or a good story in a game. No, you can have both. This is not an inverse relationship.

 

[TaurusRex]

Want to establish some things about Nigou first.

-Nigou is a reincarnated Jinki, just like Kyuu and Win. The series establishes that Jinkis only reincarnate when they form a deep personal bond with their pilot.
-The issue with most OG Winvurga Jinki is age. Nigou is clearly ancient. Even accounting for Void time dilation, she demonstrates knowledge about the Winvurga universe that almost nobody else has. The only characters remotely comparable in that regard are figures tied to the earliest eras of the Voids, which is just the Supreme Commander so far.

Her current condition also mirrors the Supreme Commander. He existed around the time the Voids were created and is slowly dying, while Nigou herself admits that she is slowly dying.

Because of that, the list of possible identities becomes very small. The only Jinkis explicitly implied to be old enough are the Star Series Jinki(while the Dominators are seemingly responsible for making them, Nemuro's relative reveals that Star Series Jinki
So with that, we have basically established that the only Jinki Nigou could have reincarnated from is a Jinki that existed before the creation of the Voids or a little bit after.

Considering that, the list of candidates is incredibly low. I ordered the list below by who I think has the biggest chance to be Nigou:

Spoiler: Spoilers

-Moribito 2, the main mecha in the Jinki series, piloted by all the main characters in that series
-Winvein(Most Jinkis have a soul, but Winvein was effectively already "dead" when Win first piloted it. And Winvein is actually a Tenseiki, a Jinki that existed from the beginning of the Voids.)

Spoiler

I suspected Winvein before, since it's been called Star Type 2, and Nigou means Two. Winvurga is Star Type 3. So both Winvein and Nigou are her seniors.
But Moribito 2 never crossed my mind, despite Akao, Ryohei's silhouette, and the Supreme Commander using a Moribito projection all being present in the story.

 

[sonicZiodx]

The flashbacks aren’t a problem for win’s characterization. There’s been plenty of time in and out of battle to get a good idea of who win is as a person.

This is like saying you can only have good gameplay or a good story in a game. No, you can have both. This is not an inverse relationship.

I still think they are because if you remove out story you will notice than win and her group barely did anything

But I think you're right as well she's was a much interesting character when she was a mecha but most of her character in rebellion is mostly obsessing about mashiro which makes her relationship with kyu even weirder because she disgards her relationship with kyu as soon she remembers mashiro

 

[BegoneThoth]

I still think they are because if you remove out story you will notice than win and her group barely did anything

But I think you're right as well she's was a much interesting character when she was a mecha but most of her character in rebellion is mostly obsessing about mashiro which makes her relationship with kyu even weirder because she disgards her relationship with kyu as soon she remembers mashiro

The new MC got memory magic -> Memory magic allowed author to show a rape scene (Mashiro) -> New MC got an upgrade to the memory magic -> Upgrade allowed author to show another rape scene (Mashiro's friends).
There was a mecha battle that could just as easily have been filler and the yandere was more of a rapey yandere. If you cut all of that out you have what, a chapter or so of dialogue saying that there's three magic powers, one of which is memory, which the new MC has been given.
🤓

As a different commenter said: "More than a quarter of the current serialization is dedicated just for [OG Winvurga characters being raped]." In this current dialogue after the mecha battle, I think half or more of the characters involved have either been raped or are products of rape. And there is still more rape to come, apparently, even assuming that the new cast isn't going to be.
🙃