Kanojo, Okarishimasu - Vol. 21 Ch. 176 - The Girlfriend and the Tiger’s Den (Part 1)

[S0viet_Noob]

@startwindowsnormally The entire argument is which person is better for Kazuya, which is somewhat opinionated.

I never said Ruka is useless,I said she's a little bit of a burden towards the story. What is the ratio of me talking about Ruka to talking about Chizuru? I always talk about how Ruka does X and Chizuru does not, but I never talk about the flaws of Chizuru nor her strengths. I wouldn't call it a bias for Chizuru, rather a hate for Ruka

 

[catsdontsmile]

If this garbage goes NTR I wouldn't even be upset. That simp has it coming.

 

[startwindowsnormally]

@S0viet_Noob
Everybody has opinions, Engineers, Doctors, Researchers, everyone. It's what those opinions are based on is what matters, I believe my opinions on Ruka are formed from evidence I sourced from the series (see the list I posted in last chapter's comments for ultimate happiness), but I digress. What makes you hate Ruka so much?

 

[S0viet_Noob]

@startwindowsnormally

Maybe it's just my preference. Ruka's character has always come off as annoying to me. The problem with this manga is that they take so much time to tell us what Kazuya is thinking, instead of branching off into other character's heads. If I knew what Ruka's mindset was during all of the things she did that I didn't enjoy, maybe I'd like the character better. She's used incorrectly in my opinion and needs more character development, but since I don't like seeing Ruka on screen much, it wouldn't really satisfy me. I don't see Ruka as a potential partner, but maybe like a closer friend or something?

One thing that bothers me about Chizuru is that after a whole charade, her only line is "..." until there is a special event like the current one going on. It takes forever to even see a glimpse of what Chizuru's development is, but at least it happens.

 

[arimareiji]

@S0viet_Noob The problem with this manga is that they take so much time to tell us what Kazuya is thinking, instead of branching off into other character's heads.

You hit the bull's eye.

I'd go farther, personally: The manga's biggest root flaw isn't (collapsed for space)

Spoiler

Kazuya acting like King Simp, Ruka's petulance and semi-coercion, Chizuru's hard heart, the agonizing awkwardness of the now-forgotten Friend Who Makes MC Look Better By Contrast (what was his name, anyway? the one who rented Ruka), or anything else. The manga's biggest flaw is that it's an eroge with Kazuya as the protagonist.

The reason it's hard to empathize with the other characters is that they're never presented as people - they're elements of an eroge. Anything aside from their desirability as goals, or their utility toward (or obstruction of) the protagonist's desired goal, is inconsequential. Actual character development is rare, except as a side effect of developing the above.

Look at how quickly people seize on adorable moments like Gamer Grandma... that which is rare becomes precious. And look at how quickly the hardcore stans seize on their favorite "end" girl but can rarely make a solid case for the adjectives they attribute to her. We don't really get to know any of them as people, just snapshots.

One last thought: To me, a great storyteller goes very light on telling you who characters are^†. A great storyteller lays off the adjectives and lets us construct our own picture from the nuances of what they show us^‡.

† - Having background characters constantly remind us how beautiful the girls are is one example, but an extreme one - and to me, that goes just as much toward the whole "they primarily exist as objects of male desire and/or a game to be 'won', not as people".
‡ - Your mileage may vary on whether Freddie Einsford-Hill in this clip is actually Kazuya's great-grandfather. Certainly they're cast from the same template. (^_~)

(in response to S0viet, but all thoughtful responses are welcome)

 

[S0viet_Noob]

It's like looking at the story from only Kazuya's view, as if it were a dream. The people in this series are opaque in character but transparent in development. They act like the world revolves around him, and everything has to be done with him around.

 

[startwindowsnormally]

@S0viet_Noob

> "[Ruka] needs more character development..."
I agree with that, especially if she's going to be the loser.
> "I don't see Ruka as a potential partner, but maybe like a closer friend or something?"
Same thing for me, but replace Ruka with Chizuru.

Now, expanding on what @arimareiji said
Collapsed for space:

Spoiler

I meant to raise something to this effect back when I was discussing with @S0viet_Noob why Chizuru didn't really feel like a character, but rather a plot device. Also, thank you @arimareiji for the points you've made, I couldn't have phrased it any better.
I don't respect Chizuru as a MC, which is why I feel she'd be better served in her own spin-off. She's an MC that acts like a set piece 50% of the time, and the other 50% of the time she's a plot device used to introduce drama. We never get to see any of her internal monologue, so we have plenty of situations where the reader is wondering why she has taken certain actions, and even in some situations we might be left wondering what she's even feeling. Compare that with Ruka or even Sumi. Both characters display their emotions a lot better than Chizuru. With Sumi, it's kind of easy, she's most likely feeling embarrassed, but I'd like to know what else is going on in her head. Thankfully we have the spin-off for that. With Ruka, her character shows plenty emotion, but we'd love to know the thoughts behind her actions. Ruka leaves some bread crumbs that provide an inkling to her thought processes, but it's nowhere near enough. Hell, we've see more internal monologue form Ruka than we've had with Chizuru, even though the amount of internal monologue was short, it provided a lot of information about Ruka (see Ruka vs Mami).

I want a reason to care about Chizuru, and I don't wish anything bad on her, but I feel like as a reader we're told we must care about Chizuru because she's the FMC. I want to care about Chizuru because she has a great character and motivation with plenty qualities, good and bad, I would also like to know what's going through her mind time to time. I would like to know what goes on behind the scenes for all of the characters. I would also like to know what's going on inside their heads, and the only people that we get to see that is Kazuya, we get a half page of internal monologue from Ruka, and Sumi gets plenty of both in her spin off. Kazuya needs to be placed on the back burner for a bit and allow the girls to shine for a while.

 

[Kcjpunk]

I really getting sick and tired of others reaction when they saw fmc for the first time sigh

 

[S0viet_Noob]

@startwindowsnormally You mean instead of being known as Chizuru, she's known as the rental that Kazuya fell in love with.

 

[arimareiji]

I can't figure out why, but your wording reminded me of a cheesy old style of commercial. 😅

 

[Monkeydroofy]

Does anyone just wanna jab him in the face at this point?

 

[arimareiji]

@ Monkeydroofy Does anyone just wanna jab him in the face at this point?

Yes, but I can't decide whether to do it with a Sharpie or a protractor.

Maybe both, stab him in the nose then lock in the Sharpie to draw a few concentric circles (to represent the target he's put on himself).

 

[startwindowsnormally]

@S0viet_Noob
I think I want Chizuru to be "The girl who broke all the rules, and took a risk". So far, Chizuru's broken all the rules, but she has nothing at stake currently. Kazuya has put a lot of money, time, effort, and emotional investment on the line for Chizuru. Ruka has abandoned an easy and well paying job, for a much less glamorous job, and has bet her entire future and happiness on Kazuya, no matter what it costs her.
At any moment Chizuru could claim her prize as the one that Kazuya wants, and she knows this, there is zero risk for her. Kazuya is almost betting everything, and Ruka has bet everything, both are in equally risky territory.

 

[S0viet_Noob]

@startwindowsnormally

What type of risk do you suppose she could take?

 

[YareYareDazeen]

Is Kazuya dumb? As a producer he actually does more than these actors. All they do is embody, while the producer plans everything out.

The producer places the chess field, while the actors dance on it to his liking.

 

[startwindowsnormally]

@S0viet_Noob
There really is no risk for her, she just withholds her feelings for no reason. There is a zero percent chance she'll be rejected by Kazuya, and she knows this. Perhaps the risk is that she'll have to give up on her cushy rental job?

 

[MrWaffleTheWaffle]

@startwindowsnormally thing is, she can't have a boyfriend and be an actress at the same time. I heard it once somewhere, so you should take it with a grain of salt, but apparently having a bf is the worst hit an actress can take to her reputation. If that's the case, getting in a relationship can easily kill her chances forever, no matter how good she is.

 

[akaz_a]

gamer grandma