Karakai Jouzu no Takagi-san - Vol. 14 Ch. 114 - Detour (Part 1)

Fed-Kun's army
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@Yukimusha
Sure, but that's entirely subjective. There are plenty of people who would prefer to have translator notes outside the panels explaining something that's translated more literally, and if they're feeling particularly engaged and don't want to read it they can just ignore the notes and chalk whatever they just read up to weird Japanese stuff. There's a line that has to be drawn somewhere between "a weird numbers thing that doesn't really matter as long as you get 'I love you' out of it" and "EAT YOUR HAMBURGERS, APOLLO."

Obviously there are a lot of grey areas, and things that are easier or harder to translate, and I'm not saying this way is bad, but saying stuff like "literal translation isn't good translation" and "this way is better" is entirely subjective.

In this particular case I think it was pretty pointless anyway. Changing it to "an old thing from the 90s when pagers were still a huge thing" means most of your readers won't get it anyway, and heck, if they skip the page at the end you even risk giving people misinformation when they think "oh, 143 means 'I love you' in Japanese for some reason" if they don't notice how the letters match the numbers. As a not-boomer, I certainly didn't get it, and thought it was a literally-translated joke until I got to the end only to find out it was actually 415 in Japanese and 143 was actually supposed to be an English thing.

Considering that explaining it at the end was as easy as:
yo (four) - i (one) - ko(i) (five) = good love
they totally could've just had that next to 415 and it would've explained it just as well. I really don't see how that would be "taking anyone out of the story," certainly not any more than 143 did for people under the age of 40 who don't count letters. It's not like I'm pretending these Japanese high schoolers are actually western and seeing a Japanese number thing that takes a corner of a panel to explain would shatter my perception of it. It's not like reading the shiratori game with romaji in today's chapter of Sukinako ga Megane wo Wasureta made me disengage or lose interest in the story in any way.

Again, this is all subjective. I don't think translating everything literally is always the best way to go. But as they said, there are upsides and downsides to everything, and to imply that always localizing everything is the best approach gets us children asking their parents for jelly-filled doughnuts like Brock was eating on their cartoons and being confused as to why they don't look like balls of rice.

Obligatory thanks to the translators for the hard work, because writing five paragraphs about why I didn't like a decision doesn't mean I want you to stop, and it's a really, really minor complaint.
 
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Great work once again! But I don't think 143 is as universal as you guys think it is because I was wracking my poor understanding of Japanese about over it anyway xD
 
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I can't believe people actually think the number of stairs is relevant to the story in any way past "it's a lot to count." I think that was a fantastic localization of some Japanese wordplay into English wordplay. You don't have to know about pagers to get it, either. It's literally just the number of letters in each word.
 

TSP

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@Anonyan
Our general feelings on all of this:

Everything is valid, so long as it falls within original intent. Directly translating the stairs or not, both come with upsides and downsides.
For things that cannot be localized, we have absolutely no qualms with not doing so and would not unnecessarily change something if we thought we could do it without needing to put a translation note within the chapter (but instead at the very end)

(See: The Acchi Muite Hoi chapter, as well as all of the people who complained about us not localizing, showing how it's impossible to please people)

Our philosophy is fidelity with smoothness. If you stopped your reading experience to read an explanatory note, the flow of the story is disrupted.
While we don't think translation notes are inherently bad, if we can do away with them by suggesting the meaning enough within the text then putting an end-credit note later, we will do that. From my personal experience reading things in Chinese and Korean (since I know Japanese), I don't enjoy having to be taken out of the flow of things for explanations, no matter how short. So really, this is our personal preference here for how we like the reading experience to feel (as close as a native reader as possible).

Since the fact that there are 415 stairs is not emphasized at all, we figured it would be all right to go with a smaller number but better equivalent in terms of how the number gets broken down. Had there been wheezing and panting, we would have totally avoided this, but since it both wasn't emphasized AND the interpretation in the Japanese was EXTREMELY forced, we figured that the number of stairs did not matter much even in the original and that the author likely only picked that pairing since it literally is the only Japanese number pairing you can get away with that does what he needed it to do. Then, with adding a note, people can see what the original meaning was, so for the people who like pure fidelity, they still get to experience that at the end.

Of course, we have no issue with people disagreeing, since as I mentioned above, no matter which direction we go, someone is always unhappy.

(P.S., I don't think we've ever localized anything as bad as the cultural localization you mention which focuses more on straight-up erasing the original culture. We have never attempted this, thankfully.)

@tickub

Nah, we don't think it's universal, it was just a happy coincidence that something similar existed. The Japanese, as explained above, is incredibly forced for the sake of brute-forcing the meaning the author wanted to give, so neither number in the Japanese version or English version makes THAT much sense.
 
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@TSP
Didn't mean to imply this was anything near eating hamburgers and jelly donuts, just using crazy hyperbole to make a point.
More than anything, I just wanted to point out that it's possible to find flaws with it, 'cuz the guy going to an extreme like "literal translation isn't good translation" rubbed me the wrong way. It's all preference, and ya'll should do it whatever way you prefer. "Someone is always unhappy" is the realest shit, and people like me being the tiniest bit irritated about it - and not even because it bugged me when I read it, only 'cuz I thought someone else was going to bat for it too hard - isn't anything to worry about.

Thanks for responding to my rant with an equally bulky wall of text tho, if that ain't dedication I don't know what is.
 

TSP

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@Anonyan

Yes, from that angle, we do agree that literal translations are not always bad. Untranslatable things are definitely a great way to show an interesting glimpse of the culture, hence why we didn't force Acchi-Muite-Hoi into something that made more sense upon first glance. Although, I would say that in my experience, literal is almost always bad when it comes to looking at a translation style from a holistic perspective, but I have a feeling you were both talking about different things. On a point by point basis for cultural things, I agree that literal is often better, but for things that are not cultural at all, I generally think dynamic translations are better.

Also yeah, haha. Most of our translators are also translators as their actual job, so we tend to get really excited about these things. Probably one of the reasons why we tried to make the TL note shorter and not explain our entire reasoning, since we felt maybe it could have been too much, haha.
 
Fed-Kun's army
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@Anonyan The original was unrealistic: they walked for at least 30 minutes if they have a decent pace up and almost 30 minutes down for an hour of just walking.

Also, 143 is not exclusive to boomers (are you sure you know what those are?) 143 is both older than that and was still current for chat rooms and when texting was much more limited.
 
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@gormadoc
Whether the number is unrealistic or not has absolutely nothing to do with this conversation unless they were making the number drastically bigger, which they didn't. Japanese shrines and temples that are known for having a shitload of stairs isn't remotely unheard of either.
I know enough about boomers to know that I'm a millennial and not a boomer or a zoomer, and that they were alive in the 90's, which is apparently still when the whole "143 = i love you" was common, and I know that it's not common now. Me saying I'm not a boomer so I didn't recognize it is not at all invalidated by it having been around before or after boomers if it was still around when they were. What's your point? Should I have specified that I'm also not a Gen-Xer, and taken away from the meme energy of only saying boomer, to not offend you by implying that only boomers know old things? I'm not gonna do a bunch of research on when the number 143 was popular as a romantic gesture and fucking specify every single generation that I'm not a part of that knew about it, the translators said it was common in the 90s so I'm gonna say "me no boomer" and move on, it's a fucking meme word that I used offhandedly to specify that I'm too young to have recognized the thing. How accurate it is is entirely outside the scope of this conversation.

Out of all the shit people could've taken issue with in that massive post, you have beef over the weirdest stuff.

@TSP
I can't always keep my scanlation groups straight so I don't remember if you're one of the groups who do gag uploads on April 1st, but if you do and you're looking for ideas you could totally have a short chapter followed by a ten-page essay on every little detail about the translation and why you made the choices you did.
 

TSP

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@Anonyan

We've never released an April's chapter before but that's a funny idea, thanks xD
 
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I like how she was nervous until she realized he was trying to win, not to confess.

(And that she wants into that little black book)
 
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I don't know why but when I read the explanation, I read it as Wo Ai Ni which mean I love You in Chinese and just make me sing an old song for like 10 minutes.
EIther way thanks Translator.
 

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