Kasane to Subaru - Vol. 3 Ch. 21

[wai_ma1]

Subaru has explicitly expressed that he does not feel like a woman at all, but exclusively as a man who likes feminine things. And Kasane has explicitly expressed that she is interested in him as a man, just one she supports in his passions which includes crossdressing. Also Masamune is a gay man who was interested in Subaru specifically as a man, it would be uncomfortable at best if that entire plot point was undone by Subaru becoming trans instead of the reason actually given in the manga that Subaru's straight and has a girlfriend.

You don't understand! Obviously, because a man likes feminine things it obviously means he isn't a man because only girls like feminine things after all.

 

[TheMerDragon]

damn she's locking in on him. no hesitation, just honest with her feelings

We love a woman who knows what she wants

 

[fujoyoshi]

Subaru has explicitly expressed that he does not feel like a woman at all, but exclusively as a man who likes feminine things. And Kasane has explicitly expressed that she is interested in him as a man, just one she supports in his passions which includes crossdressing. Also Masamune is a gay man who was interested in Subaru specifically as a man, it would be uncomfortable at best if that entire plot point was undone by Subaru becoming trans instead of the reason actually given in the manga that Subaru's straight and has a girlfriend.

it wouldnt be undone, its called character development.

There are plenty of ways they can have a character transition in a manga and have another character realise there sexuality allows it (hourou musuko did it)

 

[Sky_Ravager]

Kasane, the hunter. She wants more of that butt meat.


Thanks for the chapter! It's always good to see a new "Kasane to Subaru" chapter!!

 

[smolbaka]

it wouldnt be undone, its called character development.

There are plenty of ways they can have a character transition in a manga and have another character realise there sexuality allows it (hourou musuko did it)

A man who transitions because likes women's clothing is not character development.

That's actually a VERY regressive way of thinking...

This would end up being gender conforming and enforces the idea that women's clothing should only be for women.

Do you ever think before you speak?

 

[Mikhail]

1000000% lmao the way he lit up when the photographer called him a lady was so sweet!

hopefully this one's going to get a Yuri tag soon lol. been really enjoying it so far, thank you to the team for the translation!

it wouldnt be undone, its called character development.

There are plenty of ways they can have a character transition in a manga and have another character realise there sexuality allows it (hourou musuko did it)

Regressive thinking.
As a crossdresser myself, I find it flattering to be mistaken for a woman. Crossdressing is done with the goal of passing as a woman but the end result is not necessarily identifying as one - it's simply presenting oneself as one and then going back to being a man. I see it pretty similar to my situation - crossdressing is a fun way to experience a part of society one doesn't get to experience otherwise, and to dress in more pretty/elegant clothing (something that men aren't afforded the opportunity to wear otherwise), but it also doesn't mean that I want to be a woman permanantly.
If he does end up trans, I'd be disappointed.

 

[fujoyoshi]

Regressive thinking.
As a crossdresser myself, I find it flattering to be mistaken for a woman. Crossdressing is done with the goal of passing as a woman but the end result is not necessarily identifying as one - it's simply presenting oneself as one and then going back to being a man. I see it pretty similar to my situation - crossdressing is a fun way to experience a part of society one doesn't get to experience otherwise, and to dress in more pretty/elegant clothing (something that men aren't afforded the opportunity to wear otherwise), but it also doesn't mean that I want to be a woman permanantly.
If he does end up trans, I'd be disappointed. All indications in the story point to a completely different outcome from the one you guys are expecting. Don't be disappointed if it doesn't give you what you want.

Pretty sure everyone saying Trans is literally joking (me included)

Don't be so serious, nobody is taking your femboy away

 

[smolbaka]

Pretty sure everyone saying Trans is literally joking (me included)

Don't be so serious, nobody is taking your femboy away

"It's not a joke until I'm called out for how backwards and regressive my ideas are"

 

[fujoyoshi]

"It's not a joke until I'm called out for how backwards and regressive my ideas are"

Just say your transphobic, it requires less words

 

[Garbotrash]

the "it's actually more transgressive to be a crossdresser than it is to be trans" thing is a non argument lol. "why can't you just be a feminine man" is what society shouts at every single trans woman when she tries to express herself. lots of closeted trans people put up walls like Subaru did, because they yearn to take a safe half step towards femininity, and then after a while they grow past those walls and find that the crossdresser box which was comfortable before no longer fits. speaking from my own experience as a trans woman, even if it was not the intention of the author, they have written the character in a very "eggy" way and I'm allowed to have my own feelings on that without being called a r*tard, thank you.

 

[Mikhail]

Pretty sure everyone saying Trans is literally joking (me included)

Don't be so serious, nobody is taking your femboy away

Sorry. I'm just kinda touchy about all this since it can often feel like an attack even when those posts are made as a joke. Poe's law and all. I'm very satisfied being a man and being able to crossdress so it can feel hurtful when people imply characters I relate to are actually secretly something I'm not. My own projection is probably unhealthy.

the "it's actually more transgressive to be a crossdresser than it is to be trans" thing is a non argument lol. "why can't you just be a feminine man" is what society shouts at every single trans woman when she tries to express herself. lots of closeted trans people put up walls like Subaru did, because they yearn to take a safe half step towards femininity, and then after a while they grow past those walls and find that the crossdresser box which was comfortable before no longer fits. speaking from my own experience as a trans woman, even if it was not the intention of the author, they have written the character in a very "eggy" way and I'm allowed to have my own feelings on that without being called a r*tard, thank you.

I completely understand what you're saying and I'm sorry if I hurt you because of what I was saying, because I wasn't trying to imply that at all. I think part of the problem is that both of our groups can often be reduced to the same thing and that ends up muddying the waters when discussing it. To wit - trans women will often be reduced to "crossdressers" by people who hate them, there are a number of crossdressers who end up being trans, and I've seen it happen the other way around, too. Crossdressers get referred to with the t-word cuz people don't like the idea of AMAB people expressing themselves femininely at all.
I wish it didn't have to be like this. I wish we could all just get along, but it feels like every time there's characters in a series like this, arguing about them being trans or not feels inevitable since at the end of the day all we both want is representation. I don't want to try and stop you from having that, but every time you gain one from a series like this I lose one. And that hurts.
It really shouldn't have to be this way, but as long as we exist in the same spaces reading the same stories differently it probably will be.

 

[fujoyoshi]

Sorry. I'm just kinda touchy about all this since it can often feel like an attack even when those posts are made as a joke. Poe's law and all. I'm very satisfied being a man and being able to crossdress so it can feel hurtful when people imply characters I relate to are actually secretly something I'm not. My own projection is probably unhealthy.

I completely understand what you're saying and I'm sorry if I hurt you because of what I was saying, because I wasn't trying to imply that at all. I think part of the problem is that both of our groups can often be reduced to the same thing and that ends up muddying the waters when discussing it. To wit - trans women will often be reduced to "crossdressers" by people who hate them, there are a number of crossdressers who end up being trans, and I've seen it happen the other way around, too. Crossdressers get referred to with the t-word cuz people don't like the idea of AMAB people expressing themselves femininely at all.
I wish it didn't have to be like this. I wish we could all just get along, but it feels like every time there's characters in a series like this, arguing about them being trans or not feels inevitable since at the end of the day all we both want is representation. I don't want to try and stop you from having that, but every time you gain one from a series like this I lose one. And that hurts.
It really shouldn't have to be this way, but as long as we exist in the same spaces reading the same stories differently it probably will be

My guy you literally have an endless buffet of "just a crossdresser" characters in manga. I can count the trans characters on one hand.

Also you all seem to be the ones who start these conflicts because only your perspective is permitted without scrutiny

 

[Mikhail]

My guy you literally have an endless buffet of "just a crossdresser" characters in manga. I can count the trans characters on one hand.

Also you all seem to be the ones who start these conflicts because only your perspective is permitted without scrutiny

Then I won't speak on the matter further. I'm sorry for being inconsiderate.

I hope you'll be able to gain more representation in time. I'll try to stop being so sensitive to this kinda thing.

 

[0ttaPr1nce]

Then I won't speak on the matter further. I'm sorry for being inconsiderate.

I hope you'll be able to gain more representation in time. I'll try to stop being so sensitive to this kinda thing.

thing is there's plenty of trans specific mangas out there. they just refuse to look for them and come project on the ones focused on crossdressing/gnc men instead.

 

[0ttaPr1nce]

the "it's actually more transgressive to be a crossdresser than it is to be trans" thing is a non argument lol. "why can't you just be a feminine man" is what society shouts at every single trans woman when she tries to express herself. lots of closeted trans people put up walls like Subaru did, because they yearn to take a safe half step towards femininity, and then after a while they grow past those walls and find that the crossdresser box which was comfortable before no longer fits. speaking from my own experience as a trans woman, even if it was not the intention of the author, they have written the character in a very "eggy" way and I'm allowed to have my own feelings on that without being called a r*tard, thank you.

what you just described is something experiences by every male (regardless of what they personally identify as), for expressing themselves in a non masculine manner. and quite frankly I'm over the narrative embracing and being more confident in presenting fem to having the end result of them claiming they're a woman now. It just makes it seem like it inherently ties femininity to being a woman. the only reason why you even thought of Subaru's actions as "eggy" is because he's overly cautious on how others perceive him while crossdressing.

 

[fujoyoshi]

thing is there's plenty of trans specific mangas out there. they just refuse to look for them and come project on the ones focused on crossdressing/gnc men instead.

Lol

 

[MaroFour]

Then I won't speak on the matter further. I'm sorry for being inconsiderate.

I hope you'll be able to gain more representation in time. I'll try to stop being so sensitive to this kinda thing.

i understand you apollogizing, but i don't feel like he is going to transition either, some people are misinterpreting a hobby and personality traces (liking cute stuff and dressing cute) with a lifestyle and how the character see himself. Yes trans ppl can go trought this phase, but i believe the manga makes it very explicit what it wants to adress, that is the nuances around crossdressing and bringing up to the table what can be considered "normal".

 

[yoshiii]

Love her straightforwardness!

 

[Awtm]

Why do we need to fight over whether Subaru is trans or not? Can't we just accept that both are possibilities and just let the writer, write? I'd personally think the story could work with him coming out as trans even if it probably won't go in that direction. I don't know why we can't acknowledge that the venn diagram of trans experiences and crossdressing experiences overlaps. If someone wants to take a trans message from this, I don't see how that takes away your ability to just see this as a story about someone crossdressing since nothing certain has been put in

 

[Mikhail]

Why do we need to fight over whether Subaru is trans or not? Can't we just accept that both are possibilities and just let the writer, write? I'd personally think the story could work with him coming out as trans even if it probably won't go in that direction. I don't know why we can't acknowledge that the venn diagram of trans experiences and crossdressing experiences overlaps. If someone wants to take a trans message from this, I don't see how that takes away your ability to just see this as a story about someone crossdressing since nothing certain has been put in

From my perspective, the major reason is this: discussion of otokonoko series are populated by a) trans women, b) gay/bi men in denial, c) crossdressers/femboys (gay/bi), and d) crossdressers/femboys (straight). Basically everybody falls into a different category. I think all of them and their perspectives are valuable to the discussions, but I think a lot of the time the issue is that they're all looking for something different from the same basic mold of "character born male presents/dresses as female". Trans women are looking for validation and for series to explicitly cover trans topics. Gay/bi men in denial want to read pseudo-het series that are only barely yaoi but enough that most people elsewhere will still call them gay. Gay/bi crossdressers are at the other end of the spectrum, wanting to be taken as girly in value and self-inserting as the girl (male) but not wanting to be trans. And most straight crossdressers mainly just want to see male characters appreciating femininity while not denying who they are as straight guys. I don't think any of these really mesh with each other and for that reason there's never going to be any way discussing otokonoko discourse online will ever be straightforward.
I wish it didn't have to be like this, but as long as we all just have our own perspectives diluted by the fact that we all have very unique lenses through which we enjoy these series, there'll never be agreements unless we alll retreat into echochambers.