Kenja no Mago

[DANDAN_THE_DANDAN]

You guys keep arguing about the "demon lord/magic king" naming and I'll be here defending the real demons real quick.

Honestly, I don't get why the manga has such a low score (to me; I'd rate it at least an 8 for MAL but it's actually a 7). Cliche is not a good reason to talk bad about a story. Look at My Hero Aca as an example. He said that he's the number one hero from ep one yet we keep on consuming each chapter with delight. In other words: it's not about the ending but rather the journey.

Yeah, all the demons seem to have the same motivation of 'revenge' but all you guys are seeing their plans and not their actions. I say that you better see the ending before you judge it. I personally love this series just because on their unique theme of "antagonists are also trying to live their own lives" that isn't really seen much elsewhere.

You could argue that new =/= good but at the end of the day this whole thing is experimental. So let's just stick onto this roller coaster amd see where it takes us, shall we?

 

[DANDAN_THE_DANDAN]

@greyhud90 I disagree. If you actually paid attention, they ventured towards the outside countries for a political visit. Also, the tags are just describing what is featured in the story.

I could mention about how you can leave if you hate this series and you would talk back about having rights to make your own opinion so Imma get straight to the point: stop spreading negativity. We're here to have a fun time and if you don't like having this kind of fun then please don't ruin ours. We both have different opinions so why don't we agree to disagree?

Also, screw you for thinking that all OP protags make the story boring. It all depends on the writing and if you're blinded by the "OP" tag before jumping in the story then please remove the wall that is preventing us from having a good time before blabbering about this.

 

[DANDAN_THE_DANDAN]

Wow. The difference between the general comments and the chapter comments are like night and day. So negative here and positive in the chapters. Don't rely on the comments here to decide if you wanna read this. Go and scroll over the first few chaps and be the judge yourself.

 

[Bramia]

@DANDAN_THE_DANDAN It's true that some mangas with OP MCs are fun... But in this one, everyone always admires/loves the MC for no reason, no problem is neither interesting nor hard to solve. All his friends got a sudden power creep because of... The power of imagination? For how long has magic existed in that world? And they want to tell us nobody tried imagining the result when using magic?

The series is for people who want to read something while turning their brain off, which happens pretty often actually. That doesn't mean it's good though

 

[Autumnbear]

Imagine a manga without a stupid main protagonist... silly thought eh?

 

[greyhud90]

IM NOT SHITTING ON OP MC YOU DICKWAD!
I JUST HATE THE FKING WISH FULFILMENT TREND HAPPENING IN THE POP MANGAS!!
Why the MC ALWAYS has a "OMG LOOK ITS MC!! QUICK SUCK HIS DICK!!" cheerleaders!
IT IS NOT FUN!
FUN FOR YOU MAYBE BECAUSE YOU'RE A SAD LITTLE LONELY FK BUT FK I HATE THAT SHIT!
THESE ENFORCES STUPID IDEALS ON SHOUNEN READERS THAT YOU HAVE TO SUCK EVERYONE"S DICK TO SUCCEED IN LIFE OR YOU HAVE TO BE THE ONE FLOPPING YOUR DICK AT PEOPLE!
ITS BAD SHET I TELL YOU!
STALK ME SOME MORE LONELY BETCH!! HAHAHAHAH












**eats popcorn while waiting**

 

[DANDAN_THE_DANDAN]

@greyhud90 Think of MC as Taylor Swift. Do you think that pop culture isn't worshipping her already? Actually, no. Trade out Taylor Swift for any celebrity you can come up with in your head. IT'S ALL THE SAME. SOCIETY WORSHIPS CELEBRITIES. USE YOUR EYES AND BRAIN, WILL YOU? I mean... please look at the world around you and think logically for a second, thank you ^_^

@Bramia I wrote an essay disagreeing on you but then chrome crashed and I lost all my progress. Oof. Imma do a quick TL;DR.

1. Try to imagine how gravity works. You can't, can you? All you know is that gravity causes things to accelerate towards the center of the Earth at 9.8 meters per second.

2. Considering they don't even know about gravity, I doubt that they can quickly grasp the knowledge we took for granted when we learned about them in elementary school.

3. Newton discovered gravity in 1687 and the oldest recorded human history is 3000 BC. That's a 4500 year gap without anyone revolutionizing science and considering that this world takes place in a medieval era I don't think that anyone has ever tried to "think about it".

4. In a world where "Make a fireball" is more commonly used than "gather up oxygen in the atmoshpere and create a big fireball" I doubt that the people here uses step-by-step, logical processes and instead jumping from beginning to end just because they can. Also, what I previously said can be translated to

5. Only his friends receive a power boost along with him because frankly the world isn't ready with his knowledge. Look back at the atom bombs we made. Obviously they're gonna use his great power in magic for warfare; it even explicitly predicts that in the manga. So where else to circulate this knowledge other than his inner circle of trusted friends.

TL;DR (of a TL;DR)
6. I agree that some things are only enjoyable with your brain off but I disagree that this manga is such a case. I also think that this manga is awesome for using the isekai trope in its advantage by allowing our everyday knowledge to transform into extraordinary powers in this world abundant with magic. And in my opinion, the protag is OP because he earned it through his "advanced" (relative to this world) understanding of how the world works; he is not a character written lazily but instead one with carefully planned attributes and personality (by which I mean he's a self-insert).

Also, have you tried inserting yourself into the shoes of the MC? That's how I've been doing while watching animes and reading mangas and through that method I find it very much entertaining.

 

[greyhud90]

you seriously have so much free time lol,
took you 1hour to reply and its not healthy man
let people rant and hate and you guys keep on reading.
People like us will always be there to shit on things other people worship too much.

Besides, why would others be turned off from a story just because ol' grey here talks bad about a genre,
the negativity you see in the comments is just you being too affected.

 

[Bramia]

@DANDAN_THE_DANDAN

Oh please. It is never shown that shin has any deep understanding about anything he created with magic. He just has shallow ideas that magically work out. It's not like he was an engineer or physicist who made all the plans and calculations needed for it to work, and not only that they got to a point in history where they have freaking magic schools. Schools with teachers dedicated for teaching magic. It's ridiculous to think they wouldn't know that their magic gets stronger the more they understand what they aim for. Knowing this would result in a thirst for more knowledge and understanding of the world which would lead their science also gaining a boom, but the author completely forgot about this because the world isn't well thought.

There's also two other reasons why the science in their world should be much more advanced.
1. Religion is never showed as being important in their lives. In the western world, religion butted in to stop advances by hunting down pioneers, autopsies and many other ways to do research ending in what we call now the Dark Ages. Nothing like this is shown in the manga
2. Magic gets stronger the more understanding you gain of your world. This means you could instantly tell which of two different theories are right by testing them out with magic and not by complex theorizing, calculations, discussions and tests.

By how this story is told, magic basically makes anyone a God, able to create anything as long as they have deep enough understanding of it, but the world doesn't show the consequences that would have at all. The focus of the story could also be somewhere else entirely and be much more interesting than just sucking off the mc and his cute illegal girl friend (let's not forget our MC is freaking ~40 years old)

 

[DANDAN_THE_DANDAN]

@Bramia

He just has shallow ideas that magically work out.

Um, that's called magic.

It's not like he was an engineer or physicist who made all the plans and calculations needed for it to work,

Yeah, that's what the magic is for: connecting the gaps of his knowledge.

On the scene where he heals a dying man who got attacked by the demons, do you think Shin really have any knowledge on the major organs of the human body? Of course not. Ot even shows that he sorts of forgets his basic human anatomy because he said, "I need more knowledge from my previous world for this". Can't be bothered to research which chapter it was on so look it up yourself. Logically he would use magic to stitch back the man's nerves, blood vessels, and tissues. I won't be surprised of the man does end up with a disability considering his non-expert knowledge but unfortunately anything beyond the previous sentence is just mere speculation for the man is just a background character.

and not only that they got to a point in history where they have freaking magic schools.

If you actually read the manga, the teachers have the same mindset as every other person - focus on results and forget about process. I rest my case.

It's ridiculous to think they wouldn't know that their magic gets stronger the more they understand what they aim for.

There's also two other reasons why the science in their world should be much more advanced.
1. Religion is never showed as being important in their lives. In the western world, religion butted in to stop advances by hunting down pioneers, autopsies and many other ways to do research ending in what we call now the Dark Ages. Nothing like this is shown in the manga
2. Magic gets stronger the more understanding you gain of your world. This means you could instantly tell which of two different theories are right by testing them out with magic and not by complex theorizing, calculations, discussions and tests.

I gotta give to to you on this one; you are absolutely correct.

HOWEVER, a negative does not prove a positive. Your hypothesis entirely depends on "What if the people of this world does in fact think about that. What if they don't? I mean, gravity was indeed ignored for over 4000 years.

And to prove my point even further, ancient civilizations discovered that certain herbs and plant products could prove as medicine to specific sickness and they even could recognize the symptoms of a nonfatal and deadly illness. But then again, they just knew that it works. It wasn't until only a couple centuries back when Louis Pasteur came up with the germ theory (1860). Then from then on they discovered that the medicines work because a certain part of their molecular structure actually damages the pathogens in some way either by destroying a part of their vital systems or stopping their numbers from growing (trust me I'm a science student).

Looking back now, those ancient doctors really had no clue, do they? Again, focus on the results and forget about the process. Oh, this magical herb can cure coughs? Don't question how they work, just appreciate that it does!

By how this story is told, magic basically makes anyone a God, able to create anything as long as they have deep enough understanding of it,

Oh yes, and by knowledge you mean the infinite amount of information about how the entire universe and in the case of the worldbuilding - the multiple universes - work. Yeah I doubt any human can do that. Maybe they can but I don't see a character possessing godlike powers, only OP ones.

but the world doesn't show the consequences that would have at all.

And does it have to? It's part of the worldbuilding now wether the mangaka actually thought about that or forget about that aspect entirely. According to you, fantasy stories with a magic system may need mana points but that doesn't mean that others can't make those without mana points.

And by consequences, do you mean exploding or even turning into a demon when your magic isn't under control? If so, there you have it.

The focus of the story could also be somewhere else entirely and be much more interesting than just sucking off the mc and his cute illegal girl friend (let's not forget our MC is freaking ~40 years old)

This is not of any value in your argument for you are representing opinions rather than facts. And for that last bit, the MC is a teenager in this world. His past self doesn't matter anymore so

And as the icing on the cake, your argument relies entirely on thought experiments and mine has been built upon real-world facts and histories.

Btw I enjoy debates and is having lots of fun so please take me very seriously.

 

[DANDAN_THE_DANDAN]

@greyhud90 In that case, think of me as the representative of the fandom. You are spreading negativity to places where we don't want it to reach. That's why we're mad. Just put yourself in my shoes. If I insult your favourite manga, you would know that it's entirely my own opinion and that it's okay but the fact that I'm badmouthing it will spread negativity to your fandom. In turn, my words could also prevent any newcomers who might enjoy the manga because they listened to me and decided to leave before giving it a shot. Now you would be angry as well, wouldn't you?

 

[greyhud90]

good manga don't need a fandom defense.
Money grab harem mangas and badly repetitive chinese novels need bashing,
you do not represent the fandom as I am a fan of well written OP MC stories myself.
I will shit upon those stories I feel are destroying our beloved genre.

This one is pitiful, It's like some sad sod decided tying himself to multiple dolls on rollers and sticking sound recorders that plays "AS EXPECTED OF SHIN" repeatedly everytime he does "normal" things.
THE WORLD IS MADE FOR HIM AND ONLY HIM.

 

[Bramia]

@DANDAN_THE_DANDAN

I love healthy discussions so let's go on until the point of no return

If you actually read the manga, the teachers have the same mindset as every other person - focus on results and forget about process. I rest my case.

This, in itself, is what's ridiculous in this manga's world. As we both agreed on already, every human here has the ability to create anything just by focusing on it, and what they don't understand of the process is made up for with magical power. What's ridiculous is that someone who's called a magician would disregard such an elementary concept like knowledge = power in regards to magic.

You gave the example of herbs to explain them not paying attention to those "details"... But it's actually completely different. Unlike with herbs or chemistry, the result is the same given the same conditions... But for magic, this is different. Not because they chant the same words they will cast the same magic. If the user doesn't understand what he's doing, he can't use magic. It doesn't make sense that a world where they are advanced enough to openly teach magic and even greet people from all social echelons (which means they've had tons of magicians around for many years) hasn't struck on what makes magic strong

The focus of the story could also be somewhere else entirely and be much more interesting than just sucking off the mc and his cute illegal girl friend (let's not forget our MC is freaking ~40 years old)

This is not of any value in your argument for you are representing opinions rather than facts. And for that last bit, the MC is a teenager in this world. His past self doesn't matter anymore so

Of course it does. The topic is "This series is lame. The world is poorly thought and the plot is boring and cliche". The plot (to me), would be really interesting if they went on a more scholar approach to uncover the mysteries of the world (and in this one, they actually can) instead of doing what everyone else does. Maybe go like Mushishi. And about his age... His past self doesn't matter? That guy was alive during ~40 years. Regardless of what his body looks like, that's an undeniable truth and that's his age. He's a pedophile.

 

[DANDAN_THE_DANDAN]

@greyhud90 So can we just agree to disagree and carry on with our lives instead? Arguing against you isn't fun.

@Bramia Bring it on

What's ridiculous is that someone who's called a magician would disregard such an elementary concept like knowledge = power in regards to magic.

The point that you are making is valid but again, it relies on a "what if" situation.

From my perspective, this is a "What if they never thought about the process" scenario. My evidence? This world has not made any advancements in science.

From your perspective, this is a "What if they used their brain for once? This world building is trash for not even considering that likely situation" Is also justified by the same evidence I present. Um...

As we both agreed on already, every human here has the ability to create anything just by focusing on it, and what they don't understand of the process is made up for with magical power

Yeah?

What's ridiculous is that someone who's called a magician would disregard such an elementary concept like knowledge = power in regards to magic.

Oh... um...

You gave the example of herbs to explain them not paying attention to those "details"... But it's actually completely different. Unlike with herbs or chemistry, the result is the same given the same conditions... But for magic, this is different. Not because they chant the same words they will cast the same magic

Wait, no. Hold on...

If the user doesn't understand what he's doing, he can't use magic. It doesn't make sense that a world where they are advanced enough to openly teach magic and even greet people from all social echelons (which means they've had tons of magicians around for many years) hasn't struck on what makes magic strong

No! Stop! AAAAAA!!!!

Oh dear you have a good argument... this is gonna be a though one. Um... Let me break it down a bit.

It doesn't make sense that a world where they are advanced enough to openly teach magic and even greet people from all social echelons (which means they've had tons of magicians around for many years) hasn't struck on what makes magic strong

1. I'm pretty sure a form of education system will evolve naturally whenever a human civilization exists. Plus one for good worldbuilding.

2. By what you mean of "strong magic" is very general and not specific. This manga iterates that there are multiple kinds of "strength": strength in function (enchanted farming tools), strength in combat (strong weapons and armor), or even revolutionary magic (teleportation and communication). The previous examples has been taken from elements explicitly introduced to the audience in the manga. These magic also came from people with the mindset of "results only, no process" which proves that "strong magic" can come without a complete understanding of the natural world and MC has proven that he is able to outperform these "strengths" simply by imagination and advanced understandings alone. Another plus one on good worldbuilding.

3. Your point of "why don't they just use their brains" is a two-sided coin, as I said in the beginning. My evidence is not only based on this manga, but based on real-life examples of our world (it takes over 4000 years for science to even take baby steps) meanwhile your side has only this manga (everyone is dumb). Statistically, I have two evidence against your one, and I share one of mine with yours.

Unlike with herbs or chemistry, the result is the same given the same conditions... But for magic, this is different. Not because they chant the same words they will cast the same magic.

4. At first glance, it seems as you are correct. However, by "condition" don't you think that, "I SUMMON THE WRATH OF THE GODS TO RAIN FIRE UPON YOU!!!" smol fireball appears is enough to be considered a condition? This world's magic seem to respond to the willpower and desired intentions and only recently that MC discovers that it also responds to specific, micro-managements as well such as "gather oxygen, spark a flame, blow wind towards that direction" hellfire spawns. Doesn't that suffice your requirements? It certainly suffices mine of "process makes magic stronger". I'd give myself a plus two for good worldbuilding: one for elaborating and another for further proving one of my previous hypothesis regarding the worldbuilding itself.

And about his age... His past self doesn't matter? That guy was alive during ~40 years. Regardless of what his body looks like, that's an undeniable truth and that's his age. He's a pedophile.

Here's Google's definition of 'pedophilia': "sexual feelings directed toward children."

And so here is the million dollar question - is she a child?

I don't know... Hey Google! Can children marry?

"While most states set 18 as the minimum marriage age, exceptions in every state allow children younger than 18 to marry, typically with parental consent or judicial approval. ... Laws in 27 states do not specify an age below which a child cannot marry."

O_O Oh, um, thx?

Long story short, if the girl is allowed to be married by her parents and that she is a noble (if she acts taboo, she's gonna probably get stoned for it) then she is no longer a child but rather a teenager or even a young adult by the standards of this country in this world. And one more for good worldbuilding. I think the right term that you are looking for is 'age gap romance'.

Phew. This took me an hour to reconsider over and over again about my life decisions to make a good argument. There you have it.

 

[greyhud90]

because all the argument can be shot down by
"it's fictional"
"It's another world so Automatically people are still cavemen in nice clothing"
"cuz we have science and (surprisingly) our knowledge of science(which he only has high school knowledge of it) works in another plane of existence(?)."
and my favorite

"CUZ ITS MAGIC"
insert shia labeuof meme
so keep doing this pointless crap

 

[DANDAN_THE_DANDAN]

@greyhud90 I told myself that I'm not gonna reply to you but your comment feels like it's personally insulting me. Take note that I have nothing against you but your word choice is bugging me.

1. Can you please use the freaking reply system? It's annoying to hear a reply for me that isn't tagged with my name in it.
2. If you bother reading the debate I have with @Bramia (where are you, I'm still waiting), although you don't have to since not a lot of people have time for that, you can see that we are both using very intelligent points in our arguments. It's nothing like your witty "it's magic, don't think about it." No, we actually dissect the magic system using real-world examples and thought experiments, along with philosophical and logical values to decide wether this manga has good or bad worldbuilding. And we're arguing this for fun, meanwhile you're arguing that "just shut up and enjoy the manga".

That's just not fun at all. And to me, someone who goes to this site for stress-relief, it's just plain insulting to my hobby - not of reading manga but rather the bliss in a mind-wrenching debate. Please, oh please, just choose your words wisely. Again, I have nothing against you but I feel insulted and it's not your fault since I don't expect you to read between the lines so deeply.

 

[greyhud90]

Too long didn't read haha
help trump make a wall instead

btw this too is my stress relief

please reply fast im going crazy

 

[DANDAN_THE_DANDAN]

@greyhud90

TL;DR

1. Can you please reply to me using @DANDAN_THE_DANDAN at the beginning of your sentence?
2. I feel that you are personally insulting my hobby of debates when you use very idiotic claims to your argument.
3. Please choose your words carefully next time.
4. Stop being lazy

 

[greyhud90]

don wanna
2 lazy fam

 

[DANDAN_THE_DANDAN]

@greyhud90 goodbye.

@Bramia where are you?