@InsertBagelRelatedPunHere well, the main heroines are both female and one of them wants the other (even though it's not mutual). same thing for the harem tag when the heroines like a male protag for whatever dumb reason and he doesn't like them back.
Kobayashi-san Chi no Maid Dragon
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@galder at best that would count as shojou-ai and not yuri, especially by the MD definitions. Beyond that the harem tag is more to state the overarching trope of the females all fighting over the MC, which people like me like to avoid lol. Where-as generally marking something as yuri or shojou-ai means an actual romantic involvement(or at least a major focus into it or the feelings of whatever character), which this has none, at least from my memory of it. It's a difference in the general use, but I think that's reason enough. It's why madoka and love-live, etc don't get tagged as yuri despite having more-than-friend-but-totally-not-gay relationships in them. Not a huge deal, but if I only looked at this because I wanted yuri, I'd be very disappointed as it doesn't fit what I expect of the tag based on my years of reading.
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@InsertBagelRelatedPunHere
MD is thankfully getting rid of the horrid "Shoujo Ai" bullshit tag, so look forward to only having Girls Love as a tag.
Anyway, the assumption that a story with Yuri tag has to FOCUS on romance and yuri is just your assumption. It may be a major plot element, but the tag doesn't need to define the entire story. Open feelings from one girl/woman to another that are actually focused on are already Yuri. Tooru's pretty darn direct about her feelings and she's wearing down Kobayashi's defenses as the manga continues on.
Kana/Saikawa is also plenty mutual.
Now calling it yuribait, that's a complete misuse of the word on the other hand. If you are so strict about definitions, be careful with that one.
MD is thankfully getting rid of the horrid "Shoujo Ai" bullshit tag, so look forward to only having Girls Love as a tag.
Anyway, the assumption that a story with Yuri tag has to FOCUS on romance and yuri is just your assumption. It may be a major plot element, but the tag doesn't need to define the entire story. Open feelings from one girl/woman to another that are actually focused on are already Yuri. Tooru's pretty darn direct about her feelings and she's wearing down Kobayashi's defenses as the manga continues on.
Kana/Saikawa is also plenty mutual.
Now calling it yuribait, that's a complete misuse of the word on the other hand. If you are so strict about definitions, be careful with that one.
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@bugdemon Like I said it's based on literal years of reading yuri via the yuri tag, over multiple websites. I can count on one hand the number of them that didn't focus onto the romance or rather relationship therein as the main overarching plot point(I'll point out that it doesn't have to be the only focus, it just has to have some focus at some point more than a recurring gag joke line). At least of those I remember. I've read every single thing tagged with it that I can find so that should count for something. And I also did point out that it can also be a single parties feelings as the focus, which according to what you've said is present, so I stand corrected on that, like I said in my other post, this has remained tagged with it despite my feeling that way, obviously that is an opinion.
I wholly and completely disagree that the Shoujo-ai tag is bullshit, it's misused by some people, but it very much is not bullshit, it serves a purpose in giving a place to the more "soft/early/young"(can't think of a good word) stories, that would otehrwise be drowned in miles upon miles of yuri H. I personally prefer that those softer "girls love" have it's own tag and place, rather than lumping it all together, but again that's me.
As far as calling it yuribait, I said that some specific scenes are, it's been a hot minute since I reread the whole thing but from memory there were, at least to start, a few of scenes that felt to me like they only existed to say "hey maybe it's yuri" I call that yuribait. I know there are people out there all pitchforks and torches over the word, but if it's not yuri, and they add in some "yuri" fanservice just cause, it's most certainly what I would define as "yuribait" and that is exactly how I felt about the "yuri" in this series when I read it last. As far as being careful how I use the term, I see no reason to, it's a word that'll never hurt anyone or anything, and certainly no one puts enough weight on my opinions for me to think anyone will follow them blindly, best case I end up told I'm wrong and we all walk away happy, worst case someone gets mad at my opinion and I move on lol
All in all, it's all just our assumptions and ideas, it's all opinions until MD or whatever places start to actually enforce the tags meanings and definitions, if they do that then obviously the trends will change to follow, but right now if you actively browse the yuri and/or shojou-ai tags on any site, you'll find what I said to generally be true, I think. Anyway it's late, I have things to do that don't involve writings out essays so I'm gonna leave it off here hopefully this explains a bit more of where I'm coming from when I say what I said
I wholly and completely disagree that the Shoujo-ai tag is bullshit, it's misused by some people, but it very much is not bullshit, it serves a purpose in giving a place to the more "soft/early/young"(can't think of a good word) stories, that would otehrwise be drowned in miles upon miles of yuri H. I personally prefer that those softer "girls love" have it's own tag and place, rather than lumping it all together, but again that's me.
As far as calling it yuribait, I said that some specific scenes are, it's been a hot minute since I reread the whole thing but from memory there were, at least to start, a few of scenes that felt to me like they only existed to say "hey maybe it's yuri" I call that yuribait. I know there are people out there all pitchforks and torches over the word, but if it's not yuri, and they add in some "yuri" fanservice just cause, it's most certainly what I would define as "yuribait" and that is exactly how I felt about the "yuri" in this series when I read it last. As far as being careful how I use the term, I see no reason to, it's a word that'll never hurt anyone or anything, and certainly no one puts enough weight on my opinions for me to think anyone will follow them blindly, best case I end up told I'm wrong and we all walk away happy, worst case someone gets mad at my opinion and I move on lol
All in all, it's all just our assumptions and ideas, it's all opinions until MD or whatever places start to actually enforce the tags meanings and definitions, if they do that then obviously the trends will change to follow, but right now if you actively browse the yuri and/or shojou-ai tags on any site, you'll find what I said to generally be true, I think. Anyway it's late, I have things to do that don't involve writings out essays so I'm gonna leave it off here hopefully this explains a bit more of where I'm coming from when I say what I said
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@InsertBagelRelatedPunHere
Not to diminish your experience, but that just sounds like your knowledge is limited. A rather interesting aspect here is that a lot of manga that these dumbass sites wouldnt tag Yuri are from Yuri magazines. Yuri magazines have a lot of stories that dont focus on romance primarily. But the people tagging stories arent the brightest (I mean the disgusting Shoujo Ai tag exists, because they are too stupid to understand it's not real and how dumb the entire idea behind it even is).
Sigh... Okay, you force my hand. I will once again explain why the Shoujo Ai tag is unburnable trash. But I wont take any space for it.
I told you to be careful with the term, because you used it completely wrong. Yuribait in its origin is just "The manga teases you with yuri (sometimes even explicitly states feelings) and in the end the characters hook up with guys instead." It's a bait and switch, hence the yuribait. There are some small changes in the definition depending on the individual, but a manga where feelings are openly stated and there is no sight of them breaking it off or of the characters hooking up with guys, there is just no way its yuribait. At worst it's open ended without them getting together, but it being implied.
I think your mistake is equating fanservice to "baiting" the audience and thus you conflate it with yuribait. You cant have a "specific scene" be yuribait. It's an all or nothing word.
You should accept when you are being rightfully corrected and try to better yourself, not act like it doesnt matter just because you dont "hurt" anyone. Where you are coming from is the same place as millions of other people who dont know any better. Hopefully you will actually take these corrections seriously.
Not to diminish your experience, but that just sounds like your knowledge is limited. A rather interesting aspect here is that a lot of manga that these dumbass sites wouldnt tag Yuri are from Yuri magazines. Yuri magazines have a lot of stories that dont focus on romance primarily. But the people tagging stories arent the brightest (I mean the disgusting Shoujo Ai tag exists, because they are too stupid to understand it's not real and how dumb the entire idea behind it even is).
Sigh... Okay, you force my hand. I will once again explain why the Shoujo Ai tag is unburnable trash. But I wont take any space for it.
1. YURI IS EVERYTHING. Japan does not make a differentiation, so neither should we.
2. Shoujo Ai is a pedophilic term in Japan, meaning loving little girls (yes, old men doing little girls).
3. Shoujo Ai was made up by idiots in the west who wanted to copy "Shounen Ai", a term nobody in Japan has used since the 80s, because it is terribly unecessary and still has the same pedophilic implications in the general public. No official outlet uses this tag. If you buy a Yuri manga at the store or on Amazon, it will not be tagged "Shoujo Ai", it will be tagged Yuri or GL. Do you understand? Literally the only places that use this false tag are pirating sites. It's an insulated bubble of stupid. Go to any actual Yuri focused site, like Dynasty reader and get kicked in the face for even suggesting the use of a "Shoujo Ai" tag.
4. Hey, do you have a "hetero Ai" tag? I mean, how else could you differentiate if a story is just pure kiddie romance or if it has perverted stuff in it? Oh wait... there is this other tag... what was it? ECCHI. "Sexual content". Mature. There are so many modifiers for hetero romance manga. Why the fuck do we need an arbitrary distinction for Yuri then? Is it a fanservice sexual romp? Yuri + Ecchi. Is it porn? Then put it on a goddamn porn site.
5. Even if you ignored every other issue with that fake tag, the distinction is completely unregulated. EVERYTHING in Japan is tagged Yuri, which means whether it is "Shoujo Ai" entirely depends on what some random guys on some pirate site think it is. They determine this on random factors. Stories that just started and have like 10 chapters are often tagged "Shoujo Ai", when one volume later it could be a completely different level of romance that they would then tag Yuri. Sometimes a manga straddles that imaginary line and people argue for hours if it is Yuri or "Shoujo Ai". You know who doesnt have to argue that? People who understand it is all Yuri. It's pretty easy to slap on a "Ecchi" or "Mature content" tag instead.
6. There is no "tons of Yuri H" on legitimate manga sites. This disgusting dumbass stigma of Yuri being sexual all comes from porn sites. Idiots who dont know the genre only see the tag in porn, when all that tag actually means is lesbians are involved. Yuri is not and never has been porn. If a site has porn, it needs to label it as such. And if you do that, it's not hard to differentiate "soft/early/young" stories from the rest. Whatever that means.
I think I've made my point. Also, while my language was harsh, it wasnt directed at you. My grieve is with the idiots who caused this bad tag to be born and divided the community with it.
2. Shoujo Ai is a pedophilic term in Japan, meaning loving little girls (yes, old men doing little girls).
3. Shoujo Ai was made up by idiots in the west who wanted to copy "Shounen Ai", a term nobody in Japan has used since the 80s, because it is terribly unecessary and still has the same pedophilic implications in the general public. No official outlet uses this tag. If you buy a Yuri manga at the store or on Amazon, it will not be tagged "Shoujo Ai", it will be tagged Yuri or GL. Do you understand? Literally the only places that use this false tag are pirating sites. It's an insulated bubble of stupid. Go to any actual Yuri focused site, like Dynasty reader and get kicked in the face for even suggesting the use of a "Shoujo Ai" tag.
4. Hey, do you have a "hetero Ai" tag? I mean, how else could you differentiate if a story is just pure kiddie romance or if it has perverted stuff in it? Oh wait... there is this other tag... what was it? ECCHI. "Sexual content". Mature. There are so many modifiers for hetero romance manga. Why the fuck do we need an arbitrary distinction for Yuri then? Is it a fanservice sexual romp? Yuri + Ecchi. Is it porn? Then put it on a goddamn porn site.
5. Even if you ignored every other issue with that fake tag, the distinction is completely unregulated. EVERYTHING in Japan is tagged Yuri, which means whether it is "Shoujo Ai" entirely depends on what some random guys on some pirate site think it is. They determine this on random factors. Stories that just started and have like 10 chapters are often tagged "Shoujo Ai", when one volume later it could be a completely different level of romance that they would then tag Yuri. Sometimes a manga straddles that imaginary line and people argue for hours if it is Yuri or "Shoujo Ai". You know who doesnt have to argue that? People who understand it is all Yuri. It's pretty easy to slap on a "Ecchi" or "Mature content" tag instead.
6. There is no "tons of Yuri H" on legitimate manga sites. This disgusting dumbass stigma of Yuri being sexual all comes from porn sites. Idiots who dont know the genre only see the tag in porn, when all that tag actually means is lesbians are involved. Yuri is not and never has been porn. If a site has porn, it needs to label it as such. And if you do that, it's not hard to differentiate "soft/early/young" stories from the rest. Whatever that means.
I think I've made my point. Also, while my language was harsh, it wasnt directed at you. My grieve is with the idiots who caused this bad tag to be born and divided the community with it.
I told you to be careful with the term, because you used it completely wrong. Yuribait in its origin is just "The manga teases you with yuri (sometimes even explicitly states feelings) and in the end the characters hook up with guys instead." It's a bait and switch, hence the yuribait. There are some small changes in the definition depending on the individual, but a manga where feelings are openly stated and there is no sight of them breaking it off or of the characters hooking up with guys, there is just no way its yuribait. At worst it's open ended without them getting together, but it being implied.
I think your mistake is equating fanservice to "baiting" the audience and thus you conflate it with yuribait. You cant have a "specific scene" be yuribait. It's an all or nothing word.
You should accept when you are being rightfully corrected and try to better yourself, not act like it doesnt matter just because you dont "hurt" anyone. Where you are coming from is the same place as millions of other people who dont know any better. Hopefully you will actually take these corrections seriously.
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@bugdemon My use of "yuribait" is certainly different from yours, but I also don't conflate it with being necessarily a bad thing, plenty of things are "bait" in the way that I meant it and I personally consider them as such, most fanservice in general are, but I will agree that the way I used it wasn't correct to the way most people use it, for that I apologize, I will try to word my statements better rather than use such words incorrectly in the future.
As far as my experience being limited, I disagree, but mostly because I suck at explaining lmao. I've actively sought out yuri in all forms and have over years, the *tagged* things were specifically what I was talking about, the supposed inaccuracy of how people tag is irrelevant if that is how the tags are generally used and that's all I was talking about. In general the manga with little focus on it or ones where it's a single character are not tagged as yuri by the majority, and there-by I was saying that I don't count them under the tag. If you take "yuri" to mean any and all "girls love", as you have said you do, then certainly this and many many many other manga would now be tagged, but the general populace don't tag those and I highly doubt they'll change that for the better of us.
And lastly I understand what you mean about the "shoujo ai" tag and why you would dislike it in general now, but honestly I have two major problems. The first is simple, I don't really care how Japan or the Japanese manga community handle things. We are not the Japanese community, nor do we or they actively require the other to conform, the same applies to the Korean mahnwa, Chinese manhua, etc. We can take things outside of their original context and don't really need to care about how it would look to the other. We also have a term for how "Shoujo-ai" is used in Japan (according to what you wrote I can't speak for it myself), "Lolicon", and that one does hold it's original meaning sadly. Perhaps this just comes from a difference in ideology between people, but in general the western English-speaking audience has never cared about how things are in the actual origins. We take words, cannibalize ideas, and eventually evolve them into something completely different. That's kinda just how this sort of interaction is throughout the world. Ideally it might be different, but realistically it never will be, because the vast majority just don't care. This community is a conglomeration of all sorts of people who aren't from those communities and a small number of those who are that choose to translate for us, we realistically can't follow the ideals of the Japanese community because they won't fit in others, at some point we have to accept that ours is it's own and that it will form it's own meanings for things like this. This only gets worse as the community adapts it's own ideas of what certain terms are and fits those meanings to things with little to no regard as to what they actually mean or meant.
Small edit here: I'd like to add that when I say/said "adult oriented" I don't mean ecchi or sexual, as you seemed to take that, I mean the story being literally adult oriented, more serious with more of a take on actual society than just a "everyone is totally cool with it and you can do whatever with no consequence" story, ecchi and fanservice-y goes into it's own category with it's own tags.
The second is that I would actually love a more distinct set of romance related tags with more regulation like "hetero ai", though perhaps with better naming convention. A "light romance" tag, a "side romance" tag, an "adult romance" tag, etc, I mean we have 20 tags for different kinds of action manga, why not romance? But I also agree that as it currently is there really isn't any actual moderation of what goes to which, though by the current definitions there should be.
I'm very much a "go with whatever is there already" person, I don't care to try to change systems people are used to when it ultimately makes little difference. So I personally go by what definitions are already set in and those would be "shoujo ai" is for lighter romance(btw the words I wanted before in place of "soft" was something akin to "light romance" meaning less focus on realism and adults and more fluffy nonsense) and yuri for the more adult oriented more serious ones and of course, the H, even though I keep that hidden on here anyway and like you pointed out the majority of sites don't even have. In a very similar manner to how "seinen" and "shounen" are used to differentiate the audience things are intended for. Not so much the contents but the intent, like a movies age rating or games ESRB.
I ended up writing a lot more than I intended to but, all of that said, I did say in the best case I'm proven wrong, you are very much correct and I concede my points. Thank you for writing your points out and not just telling me to screw off, this was a good lesson on some things and a good reminder to think before I speak, so to say.
and just for the record, so I seem less arrogantly douchy, when I said "worst case someone gets mad at my opinion and I move on" I didn't mean that I just ignore and don't care, rather that when someone comes and is just mad without reason, I won't care, I haven't the time to waste on that sort of interaction. You gave actual arguments and explained your points, most people just write something along the lines of "your mom" and try to make the other party angry or feel hurt because they *can't* argue their side. I'm sure you can understand that that is a vastly different thing to someone like yourself 😀
As far as my experience being limited, I disagree, but mostly because I suck at explaining lmao. I've actively sought out yuri in all forms and have over years, the *tagged* things were specifically what I was talking about, the supposed inaccuracy of how people tag is irrelevant if that is how the tags are generally used and that's all I was talking about. In general the manga with little focus on it or ones where it's a single character are not tagged as yuri by the majority, and there-by I was saying that I don't count them under the tag. If you take "yuri" to mean any and all "girls love", as you have said you do, then certainly this and many many many other manga would now be tagged, but the general populace don't tag those and I highly doubt they'll change that for the better of us.
And lastly I understand what you mean about the "shoujo ai" tag and why you would dislike it in general now, but honestly I have two major problems. The first is simple, I don't really care how Japan or the Japanese manga community handle things. We are not the Japanese community, nor do we or they actively require the other to conform, the same applies to the Korean mahnwa, Chinese manhua, etc. We can take things outside of their original context and don't really need to care about how it would look to the other. We also have a term for how "Shoujo-ai" is used in Japan (according to what you wrote I can't speak for it myself), "Lolicon", and that one does hold it's original meaning sadly. Perhaps this just comes from a difference in ideology between people, but in general the western English-speaking audience has never cared about how things are in the actual origins. We take words, cannibalize ideas, and eventually evolve them into something completely different. That's kinda just how this sort of interaction is throughout the world. Ideally it might be different, but realistically it never will be, because the vast majority just don't care. This community is a conglomeration of all sorts of people who aren't from those communities and a small number of those who are that choose to translate for us, we realistically can't follow the ideals of the Japanese community because they won't fit in others, at some point we have to accept that ours is it's own and that it will form it's own meanings for things like this. This only gets worse as the community adapts it's own ideas of what certain terms are and fits those meanings to things with little to no regard as to what they actually mean or meant.
Small edit here: I'd like to add that when I say/said "adult oriented" I don't mean ecchi or sexual, as you seemed to take that, I mean the story being literally adult oriented, more serious with more of a take on actual society than just a "everyone is totally cool with it and you can do whatever with no consequence" story, ecchi and fanservice-y goes into it's own category with it's own tags.
The second is that I would actually love a more distinct set of romance related tags with more regulation like "hetero ai", though perhaps with better naming convention. A "light romance" tag, a "side romance" tag, an "adult romance" tag, etc, I mean we have 20 tags for different kinds of action manga, why not romance? But I also agree that as it currently is there really isn't any actual moderation of what goes to which, though by the current definitions there should be.
I'm very much a "go with whatever is there already" person, I don't care to try to change systems people are used to when it ultimately makes little difference. So I personally go by what definitions are already set in and those would be "shoujo ai" is for lighter romance(btw the words I wanted before in place of "soft" was something akin to "light romance" meaning less focus on realism and adults and more fluffy nonsense) and yuri for the more adult oriented more serious ones and of course, the H, even though I keep that hidden on here anyway and like you pointed out the majority of sites don't even have. In a very similar manner to how "seinen" and "shounen" are used to differentiate the audience things are intended for. Not so much the contents but the intent, like a movies age rating or games ESRB.
I ended up writing a lot more than I intended to but, all of that said, I did say in the best case I'm proven wrong, you are very much correct and I concede my points. Thank you for writing your points out and not just telling me to screw off, this was a good lesson on some things and a good reminder to think before I speak, so to say.
and just for the record, so I seem less arrogantly douchy, when I said "worst case someone gets mad at my opinion and I move on" I didn't mean that I just ignore and don't care, rather that when someone comes and is just mad without reason, I won't care, I haven't the time to waste on that sort of interaction. You gave actual arguments and explained your points, most people just write something along the lines of "your mom" and try to make the other party angry or feel hurt because they *can't* argue their side. I'm sure you can understand that that is a vastly different thing to someone like yourself 😀
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This manga features more uncensored nips them most actual Hentai
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I dunno why people are arguing about the Yuri tag. Tohru explicitly says she loves Kobayashi, even to a sexual degree. And Kobayashi saying she likes Tohru cause the entire day she was thinking about marriage in that one chapter--pretty much shows she enjoys her company while knowing her feelings.
It's not explicitly stated or anything but the yuri is there even though it's not the main plot.
The story is literally a simple slice of life, it's not super complex or anything. The relationships of the characters is what it is, with or without a label. Anytime some kind of life lession is given, it's basically boils down to how simple a human's life is despite the complexities of everything else.
It's not explicitly stated or anything but the yuri is there even though it's not the main plot.
The story is literally a simple slice of life, it's not super complex or anything. The relationships of the characters is what it is, with or without a label. Anytime some kind of life lession is given, it's basically boils down to how simple a human's life is despite the complexities of everything else.
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No discussion allowed in the discussion area
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Noice
Tohru?
Yeaaaaaah, Lucoa kinda messed up with Petla. Some doors aren't meant to be opened. Despite Lucoa's massive accomplishments, I imagine making her sister like this probably didn't have any other solutions besides banishing her just for the sake of separating her from Petla, now massively clingy siscon.
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I wouldn't might this manga continue next more 3 years it would be sad if it gonna end this year or something
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