Koroshiya Yametai - Vol. 3 Ch. 27

[outinthegardener]

i guess our backgrounds are too different to understand each other properly on those matters

TLDR: It's about importing refugees as cheap labor to exploit lower class workers into accepting worse pay.

To give you some perspective, you first understand that all capitalist societies are built on unequal exchange between those who own the means of production and workers who sell their labor. Whatever value a worker produces is greater than what they are paid. The worker (hopefully) is paid enough to live, while the owner collects whatever surplus value the worker creates. The surplus value is then used by the capitalist to reinvest in the private means of production; they can buy more machines, more raw materials, train more workers, etc.

The surplus also determines how much money the capitalist can pay themselves, and this creates a contradiction: The Capitalist wants to pay themselves as much as possible, which means they want to minimize the amount of surplus to reinvest in the business, and minimize the amount they want to pay the workers who produce the surplus. Meanwhile, workers want to maximize the amount of surplus they get to keep as pay. This contradiction creates tension between workers and owners. Under capitalism workers do not get to decide how the surplus is used, that decision belongs to the capitalist. In a socialist economy the workers get to decide how to spend the surplus. Neither system has ever made a perfect example, each capitalist economy has some amount of socialism and each socialist economy has some amount of capitalism.

Most economies are Capitalist, meaning the owners have more decision-making power on how the surplus is created and spent. Workers have fewer options to bargain with the owners. They can ask for higher pay. They can look for another employer who will give them higher pay. They can spend time and money to acquire unique skills. Or they can form unions to increase their bargaining power (If one employee quits because the pay is too low, so what. If every employee threatens to quit, then the capitalist has no workers to produce the surplus.)

It comes down to supply and demand. If there aren't enough workers to meet production demands, then capitalists are forced to bargain with the available supply of workers. Capitalists want to manipulate the labor market to ensure there are more available workers than there are jobs for those workers. That's why capitalist countries maintain a certain amount of unemployment, usually 5-10%. There needs to be a pool of people who are ready and able to work, so if one worker demands higher pay they can be replaced.

Which brings us back to the economic struggle in this manga. The government, led by capitalists, allowed refugees to enter the country so they could increase the supply of workers. They don't want those workers to be able to bargain for better conditions, so they created Babylon to investigate, deport, or assassinate refugees who try to organize or work as criminals. The Church wants better conditions for the refugees, so they organize them in protest. Babylon is targeting the protests with assassins. The church is arming the protestors to fight back against the assassins.

So Babylon thinks they are maintaining the peace, but it is in defense of the government using market coercion to force refugees to accept substandard living conditions. And the church is trying to improve living conditions, but is doing so in a way that will cause war, death, and destruction. The real villain is the economic exploitation from the top. You can decide which approach is better, but I fall on the side of workers organizing against capital.

 

[shemper]

TLDR: It's about importing refugees as cheap labor to exploit lower class workers into accepting worse pay.

To give you some perspective, you first understand that all capitalist societies are built on unequal exchange between those who own the means of production and workers who sell their labor. Whatever value a worker produces is greater than what they are paid. The worker (hopefully) is paid enough to live, while the owner collects whatever surplus value the worker creates. The surplus value is then used by the capitalist to reinvest in the private means of production; they can buy more machines, more raw materials, train more workers, etc.

The surplus also determines how much money the capitalist can pay themselves, and this creates a contradiction: The Capitalist wants to pay themselves as much as possible, which means they want to minimize the amount of surplus to reinvest in the business, and minimize the amount they want to pay the workers who produce the surplus. Meanwhile, workers want to maximize the amount of surplus they get to keep as pay. This contradiction creates tension between workers and owners. Under capitalism workers do not get to decide how the surplus is used, that decision belongs to the capitalist. In a socialist economy the workers get to decide how to spend the surplus. Neither system has ever made a perfect example, each capitalist economy has some amount of socialism and each socialist economy has some amount of capitalism.

Most economies are Capitalist, meaning the owners have more decision-making power on how the surplus is created and spent. Workers have fewer options to bargain with the owners. They can ask for higher pay. They can look for another employer who will give them higher pay. They can spend time and money to acquire unique skills. Or they can form unions to increase their bargaining power (If one employee quits because the pay is too low, so what. If every employee threatens to quit, then the capitalist has no workers to produce the surplus.)

It comes down to supply and demand. If there aren't enough workers to meet production demands, then capitalists are forced to bargain with the available supply of workers. Capitalists want to manipulate the labor market to ensure there are more available workers than there are jobs for those workers. That's why capitalist countries maintain a certain amount of unemployment, usually 5-10%. There needs to be a pool of people who are ready and able to work, so if one worker demands higher pay they can be replaced.

Which brings us back to the economic struggle in this manga. The government, led by capitalists, allowed refugees to enter the country so they could increase the supply of workers. They don't want those workers to be able to bargain for better conditions, so they created Babylon to investigate, deport, or assassinate refugees who try to organize or work as criminals. The Church wants better conditions for the refugees, so they organize them in protest. Babylon is targeting the protests with assassins. The church is arming the protestors to fight back against the assassins.

So Babylon thinks they are maintaining the peace, but it is in defense of the government using market coercion to force refugees to accept substandard living conditions. And the church is trying to improve living conditions, but is doing so in a way that will cause war, death, and destruction. The real villain is the economic exploitation from the top. You can decide which approach is better, but I fall on the side of workers organizing against capital.

you might have misunderstood the situation in the manga, the refugees aren't imported, they ran away from poverty and war to this country, and after that, laws were created in consequences

 

[outinthegardener]

you might have misunderstood the situation in the manga, the refugees aren't imported, they ran away from poverty and war to this country, and after that, laws were created in consequences

They ran away and this country decided to allow them in, under conditions and laws. Go back to chapter 26, page 7. "Seven years ago, when the refugee policy reforms were signed into law. Eager for a cheap labor force that could easily be exploited, this nation welcomed the reforms and the refugees with open arms. Only to confine them to the reclaimed land of the bay district in desperate need of redevelopment and assign us to look after them."

 

[shemper]

They ran away and this country decided to allow them in, under conditions and laws. Go back to chapter 26, page 7. "Seven years ago, when the refugee policy reforms were signed into law. Eager for a cheap labor force that could easily be exploited, this nation welcomed the reforms and the refugees with open arms. Only to confine them to the reclaimed land of the bay district in desperate need of redevelopment and assign us to look after them."

ok, let's put it under more context so we can get done with it and stop talking about irl stuff

• refugees run away from wars and poverty
• government create laws to keep everyone in their places because they logically put their own people in priority
• capitalist companies realize they can abuse the laws and have cheap labors
• babylon is trying to suppress crimes amongst refugees to make acceptance of said refugees easier while on the side doing basic assassination and spying contracts (probably to be financed)
• church is using war refugees as their own little private army to contest the entire country

tell me now, how is the church not the worst here? using war refugees as an army? from my perspective, that's just purely evil and cruel

 

[outinthegardener]

ok, let's put it under more context so we can get done with it and stop talking about irl stuff

• refugees run away from wars and poverty
• government create laws to keep everyone in their places because they logically put their own people in priority
• capitalist companies realize they can abuse the laws and have cheap labors
• babylon is trying to suppress crimes amongst refugees to make acceptance of said refugees easier while on the side doing basic assassination and spying contracts (probably to be financed)
• church is using war refugees as their own little private army to contest the entire country

tell me now, how is the church not the worst here? using war refugees as an army? from my perspective, that's just pur evil and cruel

We need to use some IRL examples because the comic format won't go into detail. It's necessary to explain the greater context. I'll try to give some real world examples and then point to the comic text for why those examples are relevant to the story.

Your first three bullet points are interconnected. Hegemonic capitalist countries start wars, use international monetary policy to create impoverished countries, and create markets for weapons sales and resource extraction. Look at how the United States uses the CIA to destabilize governments in Latin and South America and install sympathetic, authoritarian governments. (Don't just take my word for it, google "US interventions in Latin America.) Those installed governments create impoverished workers who take manufacturing jobs away from US citizens, produce cheap goods and materials, and provide a dumping site for waste materials. Because conditions in those countries are poor, there are increased amounts of crime and refugees, and the USA allows a managed amount of refugees in to provide cheap illegal labor.

This is a partnership between governments and corporations. A recent example is the right-wing coup in Bolivia in 2019, where the CIA backed the removal of democratically elected socialist Evo Morales. Morales wanted to maintain control of Bolivia's Lithium supply and refused to sell it cheap to Tesla. Tesla lobbied the US government, who helped back the coup.

While the comic isn't that specific, it does refer to the government/corporate partnership. Chapter 26, page 9. "For example, the minister of internal affairs, the chair of a certain international finance firm, that director assisting with foreign policy, or the head of labor development. the ones keeping the refugees where they are now."

Babylon is not trying to make the refugees look more accepted. They are trying to keep the refugees in poor conditions so the government has cheap labor. Chapter 26, page 7-8. "[The church] became the public face, establishing a sense of community through preaching our faith, while [Babylon] remained behind the scenes, maintaining order through the use of force. Left to fend for themselves the refugees who fought for years over the little they have, have come together." What the church is trying to do is organize refugees so they can oppose the government that is knowingly exploiting them. Since Babylon is assassinating refugee and church leaders, Church guy is escalating to violent protest. He's what we call a "tankie." Refugees only have three choices- accept poverty and lack of rights/social mobility, protest non-violently and be assassinated, fight back against the oppressor.

If I were to rank who is the worst, I'd say Government is worst, then Babylon who uses extra judicial killings to support the government, then the Church who is arming regular working people in self-defense.

 

[shemper]

We need to use some IRL examples because the comic format won't go into detail. It's necessary to explain the greater context. I'll try to give some real world examples and then point to the comic text for why those examples are relevant to the story.

Your first three bullet points are interconnected. Hegemonic capitalist countries start wars, use international monetary policy to create impoverished countries, and create markets for weapons sales and resource extraction. Look at how the United States uses the CIA to destabilize governments in Latin and South America and install sympathetic, authoritarian governments. (Don't just take my word for it, google "US interventions in Latin America.) Those installed governments create impoverished workers who take manufacturing jobs away from US citizens, produce cheap goods and materials, and provide a dumping site for waste materials. Because conditions in those countries are poor, there are increased amounts of crime and refugees, and the USA allows a managed amount of refugees in to provide cheap illegal labor.

This is a partnership between governments and corporations. A recent example is the right-wing coup in Bolivia in 2019, where the CIA backed the removal of democratically elected socialist Evo Morales. Morales wanted to maintain control of Bolivia's Lithium supply and refused to sell it cheap to Tesla. Tesla lobbied the US government, who helped back the coup.

While the comic isn't that specific, it does refer to the government/corporate partnership. Chapter 26, page 9. "For example, the minister of internal affairs, the chair of a certain international finance firm, that director assisting with foreign policy, or the head of labor development. the ones keeping the refugees where they are now."

Babylon is not trying to make the refugees look more accepted. They are trying to keep the refugees in poor conditions so the government has cheap labor. Chapter 26, page 7-8. "[The church] became the public face, establishing a sense of community through preaching our faith, while [Babylon] remained behind the scenes, maintaining order through the use of force. Left to fend for themselves the refugees who fought for years over the little they have, have come together." What the church is trying to do is organize refugees so they can oppose the government that is knowingly exploiting them. Since Babylon is assassinating refugee and church leaders, Church guy is escalating to violent protest. He's what we call a "tankie." Refugees only have three choices- accept poverty and lack of rights/social mobility, protest non-violently and be assassinated, fight back against the oppressor.

If I were to rank who is the worst, I'd say Government is worst, then Babylon who uses extra judicial killings to support the government, then the Church who is arming regular working people in self-defense.

ok so i'm only going to say in the context of the manga because it's a work of fiction no matter how many links you are making with irl events

Left to fend for themselves the refugees who fought for years over the little they have, have come together

is on a different page, idk japanese so idk how it was written originally but the sentences are very distinct, babylon maintain order through the use of force, as i said and concluded logically as making acceptance easier since they are no reason mentionned of the contrary
now about the whole "arming regular working people"
i'm going to end it here, because there is only 2 reasons why someone would push so much for violence and murder (they don't craft auto rifles for fun here), they either don't know the harsh and cruel reality of war and what it brings or they are evil
and i'm going to conclude, acting the same as your ennemy just makes you as bad as him

 

[zanonyn]

church is using war refugees as their own little private army to contest the entire country

Putting aside some of your other wild responses, this is you making wild extrapolations that don't seem supported at all by what we've read so far. The Church and Babylon both seem to have the same basic goal: have the refugees not be effectively enslaved exploited people confined to a small island with strict checks on entry/departure, contrary to normal refugee policies and basic decency. The organization is taking the path of "eventually the country/citizens will come around on their own" and thus engaging in assassination and other measures to suppress any sort of uprising out of fear it'd turn off others. This has echoes to the path Hoover's FBI took with the civil rights movement, trying to go after leadership and such. The church on the other hand supports the refugees taking up arms and being able to present a credible force.

You perverting "an organization helping oppressed people rise up" into "their own little private army" and inventing this "contest the entire country" thing is a curious reaction to have. It doesn't even make any sense for one, home made AKs aren't going to beat a modern mechanized army. There is zero hope of any sort of general attack on the country at large, only seizing enough local infrastructure (broadcasters perhaps) and generating enough coverage that can't be ignored to then make progress on the political side. How that went would depend heavily on how good the leadership is and their approach including PR. But the church isn't bringing in ATGMs and troop carriers and running advanced military training everywhere from what we can see. This doesn't look like a private army loyal to the church, it looks like a people's movement for good or ill.

 

[OkamiLeek006]

You perverting "an organization helping oppressed people rise up" into "their own little private army" and inventing this "contest the entire country" thing is a curious reaction to have.

I'm guessing they're one of those people that think any sort of violent or destructive protesting/revolution is bad because it looks bad, (except probably the french revolution cause white) without realising that most peaceful or non disruptive protesting do almost nothing to help those oppressed, especially on this scale where the dominant class/race is uninterested in helping or directly compliant in the abuse

 

[alpomepro]

I'm not super well read on Liberation Theology in Latin and South America, but from what I do know, that feels like a major inspiration for the Archbishop's mindset in this manga. Never thought I'd see it referenced in a GL manga of all places. Actually based.