Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2018
- Messages
- 102
Greetings and thank you for your hard work on Dark Gathering!
I only recently got into the series and am a fan of how the Graduates are executed and presented. Is it alright if I submit my ideas for smoother and more eloquent names for the 7 employed in this Kyoto campaign?
My trick with these fancy Japanese titles is figuring out where to slice it up before deciphering the writer's intent. Then after piecing up a basic translation, pretty it up or localise it into something that the natives would've found cool. The Yu-Gi-Oh! OCG to TCG approach basically.
1. High Priest of the Evil Sutra - 邪経文大僧正
Nothing else to suggest here. This first one I liked a lot, and set high expectations for the other Graduate-equivalents to follow.
--
2. The Imprisoned Demon Sergeant Who Died For his Country - 殉国禁獄鬼軍曹
Suggestion: Demon Sergeant, the Imprisoned Martyr
"Demon Sergeant" totally needs to be kept for the 鬼軍曹 title, no questions there. While I didn't like how Muse Asia simply truncated it to "the Imprisoned Martyr", it is still an accurate translation for the 殉国禁獄 subtitle.
--
3. Otogiri the Soul Sucking Oiran - 魄啜繚乱弟切花魁
Suggestion: Otogiri Oiran, the Soul-Sucking Bouquet
Reading everything again, since "Otogiri Oiran" is her title when she was alive (typical for courtesans at the time to have flowers as their namesakes) that Yayoi continues to find fitting, I suggest keeping it as-is.
That said, I wrote a bunch of stuff regarding the 弟切 bit, would be a shame to throw it all away. It's a reference to 弟切草 (otogiri-sou / St John's Wort). As far as her theming as a ghost goes, rather than the etymology of the flower, I believe its relevance lies in:
1. Its golden colour (ie same shade as her butterflies)
2. Its poisonous nature in sufficient quantities
3. Its meaning in the Japanese language of flowers: these include "superstition", "animosity" and "grudge/resent/malice". Of these, "Grudge" (恨み) was directly referenced at the start of Ch 28.
For the subtitle, 魄啜 you've also seen in Ch 28, which you've translated as "soul-sucking" and "spirit-drain". You can decide.
For 繚乱, it refers to the concept of "flowers blooming in great profusion". There's also a similar term called 百花繚乱 (hyakka-ryouran), "a gathering of many talented ('flourishing') people". Though gender-neutral, one can liken a courtesan's brothel to that idea. Hence "Bouquet" - it's a gathering of flowers and has connotations with "collection" too, just like her attacking style.
Altogether, "Soul-Sucking Bouquet" depicts an arrangement whose beauty and vitality is maintained by stealing them straight from her victims.
--
4. Child of a Thousand Souls who cut their Necks - 千魂華厳自刃童子
Suggestion: Self-Slitting Maiden, the Thousand-Soul Wreath
This one is actually a heavy influence on why I'm opting for the [Title],[Subtitle] format for a lot of these. This probably isn't a surprise, but Jijin-Douji is darn popular among the Japanese and Chinese readers who've caught up, between her looks, loyalty and sheer usefulness. She's fondly addressed as just 自刃童子
Firstly, "Self-Slitting" for 自刃, that's straightforward. While 童子 can easily translate to "child", it's essentially a moniker for beings with a certain degree of youthfulness. Sure she's young but I want something more fitting than "child". "Youth, youngling, sprite" don't sound right either. Ultimately I got a bit liberal and went for "Maiden"; I don't strictly have to stick to a gender-neutral term. I heavily doubt future titles will include 乙女 or 少女, so shouldn't have to worry about saving "Maiden" for later.
Next the subtitle. "Thousand-Soul" for 千魂 goes without saying. For 華厳, while it may bring to mind 華厳滝 / the Kegon Falls (an infamous suicide hotspot), I don't believe that's what Yayoi is going for here.
The term originated from the Chinese 華嚴 (huayan), meaning "Flower Garland", and is a Buddhist school rooted in the Avatamsaka Sutra. Beyond "garland", it can also mean "wreath" or circular ornaments such as earrings, so long as flowers are linked. There's too much for me to even try and digest, but it would appear that one of the doctrines is "one is many, many is one".
So I thought "Wreath" would be apt. Not only does it embody said doctrine, but there's also the connotation of a funeral wreath, which fits with the Maiden's personal charge of preserving memories of the tragedy that befell her people. As a subtitle, "Thousand-Soul Wreath" then describes the Maiden as "a collective of a thousand" (alluding to her splitting powers) and "commemorating a thousand souls".
--
5. The Rapacious Bleached Head - 斎弄晒レ頭
Suggestion: Sentenced Sinner of Restrained Rampage
This may seem like a drastic change to something unrelated, but hear me out.
While 晒し can mean "bleach (via sunshine)", it also has derivative terms like 晒し者 and 晒し首, both referring to the old practice of exposing a criminal out in the sun to be shamed and humiliated in the public as an example. The latter 晒し首 is noteworthy here, since the public display happens with just the dead criminal's head.
晒レ頭 then hearkens back to this idea, and seems to express Yayoi's disdain towards him to the extent she really wants to humiliate him even further after already reducing him to his head. (Incidentally, 頭 is used instead of the usual 首 is likely because no actual decapitation has been done to him; it's still attached)
That said, "humiliate" could be a mouthful, so "Sentenced Sinner" to maintain conveyance of Yayoi's intent here. "Condemned" or "Punished" may also work, though the latter isn't strong enough I feel.
斎弄 (sairou) here is tough. 弄する (rousuru) means "to ridicule, mock, toy", likely in reference to what the Sinner had been doing to his victims at the Old F Tunnel. 斎 (sai) is a Buddhist term that typically denotes behaving in ways that conform to beliefs and doctrine. So perhaps "Restrained Rampage", which again hearkens back to Yayoi imposing her rule over him; he gets to mess around only when she decrees it.
--
6. Black Asura of the Eclipse - 月蝕尽絶黒阿修羅
Suggestion: Black Asura, the Consuming Eclipse
What you already got is good, just want to refine it some more. The title 黒阿修羅 is straightforward. 月蝕 in the subtitle's first half is straightforward. All that's left is 尽絶 (jinzetsu)
絶 typically alludes to "extermination" or "terminal", while 尽 ("exhaust", "use up" to the limit) in this instance could be alluding to 尽日, the last day of the month, when placed next to 月蝕. So together 尽絶 would emphasise limit and termination, in a "your time is up" manner, together with the preceding Eclipse. While "Annihilating Eclipse" can convey this meaning, that's a bit too tryhard for my taste.
Tangentially speaking, 尽きる (tsukiru) can also mean "to be consumed", and that clicked for me. There are cultures that liken an eclipse to the moon devouring the sun or vice versa, and "consume" echoes back to Asura's gimmick with the meatballs. So "Consuming Eclipse" (or Devouring?).
--
7. Spirit in a Transitional Period - 過渡期の御霊
Suggestion: Venerated Spirit in Transition
"Spirit" by itself is too empty, needs more accompaniment.
御霊 (mitama) means "honourable spirit", in the sense that the being comes with some degree of reverence due to their deeds when they were alive. Which given the heavy speculation he's Taira no Masakado would also point to Yayoi's esteem towards it.
So "Venerated Spirit", which gets the idea across more clearly than "honourable"
For 過渡期, while I thought "metamorphosis" wouldn't be out of place, better to play it safe and stick with "Transition"
--
These are all my suggestions for them, hope you'll find these useful! I won't bid you to necessarily follow them word for word, can adjust parts here and there since there could still be room for improvement.
I only recently got into the series and am a fan of how the Graduates are executed and presented. Is it alright if I submit my ideas for smoother and more eloquent names for the 7 employed in this Kyoto campaign?
My trick with these fancy Japanese titles is figuring out where to slice it up before deciphering the writer's intent. Then after piecing up a basic translation, pretty it up or localise it into something that the natives would've found cool. The Yu-Gi-Oh! OCG to TCG approach basically.
1. High Priest of the Evil Sutra - 邪経文大僧正
Nothing else to suggest here. This first one I liked a lot, and set high expectations for the other Graduate-equivalents to follow.
--
2. The Imprisoned Demon Sergeant Who Died For his Country - 殉国禁獄鬼軍曹
Suggestion: Demon Sergeant, the Imprisoned Martyr
"Demon Sergeant" totally needs to be kept for the 鬼軍曹 title, no questions there. While I didn't like how Muse Asia simply truncated it to "the Imprisoned Martyr", it is still an accurate translation for the 殉国禁獄 subtitle.
--
3. Otogiri the Soul Sucking Oiran - 魄啜繚乱弟切花魁
Suggestion: Otogiri Oiran, the Soul-Sucking Bouquet
Reading everything again, since "Otogiri Oiran" is her title when she was alive (typical for courtesans at the time to have flowers as their namesakes) that Yayoi continues to find fitting, I suggest keeping it as-is.
That said, I wrote a bunch of stuff regarding the 弟切 bit, would be a shame to throw it all away. It's a reference to 弟切草 (otogiri-sou / St John's Wort). As far as her theming as a ghost goes, rather than the etymology of the flower, I believe its relevance lies in:
1. Its golden colour (ie same shade as her butterflies)
2. Its poisonous nature in sufficient quantities
3. Its meaning in the Japanese language of flowers: these include "superstition", "animosity" and "grudge/resent/malice". Of these, "Grudge" (恨み) was directly referenced at the start of Ch 28.
For the subtitle, 魄啜 you've also seen in Ch 28, which you've translated as "soul-sucking" and "spirit-drain". You can decide.
For 繚乱, it refers to the concept of "flowers blooming in great profusion". There's also a similar term called 百花繚乱 (hyakka-ryouran), "a gathering of many talented ('flourishing') people". Though gender-neutral, one can liken a courtesan's brothel to that idea. Hence "Bouquet" - it's a gathering of flowers and has connotations with "collection" too, just like her attacking style.
Altogether, "Soul-Sucking Bouquet" depicts an arrangement whose beauty and vitality is maintained by stealing them straight from her victims.
--
4. Child of a Thousand Souls who cut their Necks - 千魂華厳自刃童子
Suggestion: Self-Slitting Maiden, the Thousand-Soul Wreath
This one is actually a heavy influence on why I'm opting for the [Title],[Subtitle] format for a lot of these. This probably isn't a surprise, but Jijin-Douji is darn popular among the Japanese and Chinese readers who've caught up, between her looks, loyalty and sheer usefulness. She's fondly addressed as just 自刃童子
Firstly, "Self-Slitting" for 自刃, that's straightforward. While 童子 can easily translate to "child", it's essentially a moniker for beings with a certain degree of youthfulness. Sure she's young but I want something more fitting than "child". "Youth, youngling, sprite" don't sound right either. Ultimately I got a bit liberal and went for "Maiden"; I don't strictly have to stick to a gender-neutral term. I heavily doubt future titles will include 乙女 or 少女, so shouldn't have to worry about saving "Maiden" for later.
Next the subtitle. "Thousand-Soul" for 千魂 goes without saying. For 華厳, while it may bring to mind 華厳滝 / the Kegon Falls (an infamous suicide hotspot), I don't believe that's what Yayoi is going for here.
The term originated from the Chinese 華嚴 (huayan), meaning "Flower Garland", and is a Buddhist school rooted in the Avatamsaka Sutra. Beyond "garland", it can also mean "wreath" or circular ornaments such as earrings, so long as flowers are linked. There's too much for me to even try and digest, but it would appear that one of the doctrines is "one is many, many is one".
So I thought "Wreath" would be apt. Not only does it embody said doctrine, but there's also the connotation of a funeral wreath, which fits with the Maiden's personal charge of preserving memories of the tragedy that befell her people. As a subtitle, "Thousand-Soul Wreath" then describes the Maiden as "a collective of a thousand" (alluding to her splitting powers) and "commemorating a thousand souls".
--
5. The Rapacious Bleached Head - 斎弄晒レ頭
Suggestion: Sentenced Sinner of Restrained Rampage
This may seem like a drastic change to something unrelated, but hear me out.
While 晒し can mean "bleach (via sunshine)", it also has derivative terms like 晒し者 and 晒し首, both referring to the old practice of exposing a criminal out in the sun to be shamed and humiliated in the public as an example. The latter 晒し首 is noteworthy here, since the public display happens with just the dead criminal's head.
晒レ頭 then hearkens back to this idea, and seems to express Yayoi's disdain towards him to the extent she really wants to humiliate him even further after already reducing him to his head. (Incidentally, 頭 is used instead of the usual 首 is likely because no actual decapitation has been done to him; it's still attached)
That said, "humiliate" could be a mouthful, so "Sentenced Sinner" to maintain conveyance of Yayoi's intent here. "Condemned" or "Punished" may also work, though the latter isn't strong enough I feel.
斎弄 (sairou) here is tough. 弄する (rousuru) means "to ridicule, mock, toy", likely in reference to what the Sinner had been doing to his victims at the Old F Tunnel. 斎 (sai) is a Buddhist term that typically denotes behaving in ways that conform to beliefs and doctrine. So perhaps "Restrained Rampage", which again hearkens back to Yayoi imposing her rule over him; he gets to mess around only when she decrees it.
--
6. Black Asura of the Eclipse - 月蝕尽絶黒阿修羅
Suggestion: Black Asura, the Consuming Eclipse
What you already got is good, just want to refine it some more. The title 黒阿修羅 is straightforward. 月蝕 in the subtitle's first half is straightforward. All that's left is 尽絶 (jinzetsu)
絶 typically alludes to "extermination" or "terminal", while 尽 ("exhaust", "use up" to the limit) in this instance could be alluding to 尽日, the last day of the month, when placed next to 月蝕. So together 尽絶 would emphasise limit and termination, in a "your time is up" manner, together with the preceding Eclipse. While "Annihilating Eclipse" can convey this meaning, that's a bit too tryhard for my taste.
Tangentially speaking, 尽きる (tsukiru) can also mean "to be consumed", and that clicked for me. There are cultures that liken an eclipse to the moon devouring the sun or vice versa, and "consume" echoes back to Asura's gimmick with the meatballs. So "Consuming Eclipse" (or Devouring?).
--
7. Spirit in a Transitional Period - 過渡期の御霊
Suggestion: Venerated Spirit in Transition
"Spirit" by itself is too empty, needs more accompaniment.
御霊 (mitama) means "honourable spirit", in the sense that the being comes with some degree of reverence due to their deeds when they were alive. Which given the heavy speculation he's Taira no Masakado would also point to Yayoi's esteem towards it.
So "Venerated Spirit", which gets the idea across more clearly than "honourable"
For 過渡期, while I thought "metamorphosis" wouldn't be out of place, better to play it safe and stick with "Transition"
--
These are all my suggestions for them, hope you'll find these useful! I won't bid you to necessarily follow them word for word, can adjust parts here and there since there could still be room for improvement.
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