Kuzu Rouninsei, Jinsei ga Tsurai no de Yoru no Onee-san wo Yondemita - Ch. 83 - Fight With the Scumbag

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Mashiro isn't upset because Makino is angry at her, she is upset because she basically got called a whore who would just sleep with anyone like a sex addict cheater or something
From makinos perspective she is literally popping pussy for a fuckin random stranger.. she doesn't have the context the reader does.. she specifically asked mashiro to keep her distance from the girl to then find them legs open in the middle of her living room. How does that situation play out for you?
 
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Poor Kouhai haha. She's so innocent. That wasn't the best choice of words and carries some hurtful implications. I'm glad Makino recognizes how those words could reflect her trust and assumptions about Mashiro's past work.

Mashiro clearly didn't see helping Kouhai as a big deal or anything secret, judging by her happy explanation and casual greeting of Makino. She has her boundaries and isn't a cheater, but they aren't on the same page there and need to talk things through.

As I mentioned before, they didn't have a good discussion a few chapters ago and that needs to be remedied, to prevent future miscommunication. They'll figure it out, like always. They're both good people and madly in love.
Mashiro knew what she was doing was sneaky she tried to justify it by saying makino wasn't paying attention to her because of club activities, she clearly knew makino was not comfortable with the kouhai and went out of her way to invite her over when she thought makino would be away. That alone is shitty enough. But to then escalate the situation by flashing clams then acting like that was normal behavior is absurd. She broke trust knowingly and spitefully, how is that okay in a relationship
 
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From makinos perspective she is literally popping pussy for a fuckin random stranger.. she doesn't have the context the reader does.. she specifically asked mashiro to keep her distance from the girl to then find them legs open in the middle of her living room. How does that situation play out for you?
Again, being angry isn't the issue here for Mashiro

edit: And if i'm being honest, I would even say Makino here is a prime example of insecurity for having as first thought that her girlfriend would just cheat on her with the first stranger
 
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But would you be comfortable with your partner doing the same thing if you already asked them to avoid the other person.
If I wanted my hypothetical SO to avoid another lesbian, especially one she had never been sexually or romantically involved with, then that would be a sign of insecurity and immaturity on my part. If my response to that feeling is to try to find ways to stop my hypothetical SO from interacting with their friend because I don't like them, that would cross the line into relationship abuse, in my view. It's one thing if I don't want to interact with the friend or don't care for them myself, but trying to control the interactions that don't involve me is not healthy relationship behavior.

And yes, I'm not sure if commenters are men or what, but lesbians are also friends with each other in addition to dating each other. Often the friend group is primarily LGBT/lesbian, rather than being composed primarily of straight women and men. There's not special standards based on the friend or coworkers orientation, nor are lesbians relating it to typical dynamics between heterosexual men and women.

Now, circling back, I don't think my insecurity leading to me wanting my hypothetical SO to not interact with someone is relationship abuse in and of itself. However, I am obligated to engage with that feeling directly by, for example, seeking reassurance or communicating what behaviors toward me help me feel secure in the relationship (eg, in my case regularly spending time together in person where I receive that person's attention means I can be less insecure the rest of the time). If I want this to go well, I should also phrase it in a calm and nonaccusatory way where my partner is doing me a favor to help me feel better, rather than that they did something wrong. That way, when they make the change, they can feel good about doing so rather than bad.

I'm speaking more generally because I already discussed the dynamics of this story to death on dynastyscans, which anyone can feel free to go read my comments there. This comment is not myself trying to "take a side" with Mashiro or Makino within this story. Clearly they have a lot to talk about and there are compromises they can make to both get what they want, without dictating the other person's behavior.
 
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If I wanted my hypothetical SO to avoid another lesbian, especially one she had never been sexually or romantically involved with, then that would be a sign of insecurity and immaturity on my part. If my response to that feeling is to try to find ways to stop my hypothetical SO from interacting with their friend because I don't like them, that would cross the line into relationship abuse, in my view. It's one thing if I don't want to interact with the friend or don't care for them myself, but trying to control the interactions that don't involve me is not healthy relationship behavior.

And yes, I'm not sure if commenters are men or what, but lesbians are also friends with each other in addition to dating each other. Often the friend group is primarily LGBT/lesbian, rather than being composed primarily of straight women and men. There's not special standards based on the friend or coworkers orientation, nor are lesbians relating it to typical dynamics between heterosexual men and women.

Now, circling back, I don't think my insecurity leading to me wanting my hypothetical SO to not interact with someone is relationship abuse in and of itself. However, I am obligated to engage with that feeling directly by, for example, seeking reassurance or communicating what behaviors toward me help me feel secure in the relationship (eg, in my case regularly spending time together in person where I receive that person's attention means I can be less insecure the rest of the time). If I want this to go well, I should also phrase it in a calm and nonaccusatory way where my partner is doing me a favor to help me feel better, rather than that they did something wrong. That way, when they make the change, they can feel good about doing so rather than bad.

I'm speaking more generally because I already discussed the dynamics of this story to death on dynastyscans, which anyone can feel free to go read my comments there. This comment is not myself trying to "take a side" with Mashiro or Makino within this story. Clearly they have a lot to talk about and there are compromises they can make to both get what they want, without dictating the other person's behavior.
This more or less. Makino is being unreasonable with how she manifests her insecurities and, while there is onus on her to confront them, it also doesn't mean Mashiro can just completely ignore them either. They are far too early into their relationship to have built the level of trust required to pull out the "are you doubting my feelings?" card, especially as her "proof" or her faithfulness is an as of yet currently unfulfilled promise, remember she hasn't quit delivery health yet, she has only said she would. Makino is afraid of their Kouhai doing exactly what she did to enter her relationship with Mashiro in the first place... it isn't just that she used to be (currently is) a protitute imo that given rise to this insecurity, it's that she began dating a client while she actively was.
 
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This more or less. Makino is being unreasonable with how she manifests her insecurities and, while there is onus on her to confront them, it also doesn't mean Mashiro can just completely ignore them either. They are far too early into their relationship to have built the level of trust required to pull out the "are you doubting my feelings?" card, especially as her "proof" or her faithfulness is an as of yet currently unfulfilled promise, remember she hasn't quit delivery health yet, she has only said she would. Makino is afraid of their Kouhai doing exactly what she did to enter her relationship with Mashiro in the first place... it isn't just that she used to be (currently is) a protitute imo that given rise to this insecurity, it's that she began dating a client while she actively was.
This is a good insight that it's easy to lose track of. It's Makino's first relationship, Mashiro is the only one with whom she's done anything romantic or sexual, at least for the sexual aspect it's very much different for Mashiro (though Makino is essentially her romantic fallback after her sister didn't work out), and their relationship was previously based on money.

It's quite natural for Makino to feel insecure in this situation. Mashiro has not been noticing or recognizing that, which has contributed to Makino's behavior becoming more unhinged.
 
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the classic problem with sex work

when does it stop being work for a person....
 
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She pulled a uno reverse card but uh...

She still planned all of this behind Makino's back despite being told specifically not to be involved with Hotaru. And her first instinct being to literally use her naked(?) body to teach kind of gives credence to scum's concerns.

Maybe she isn't a whore who would do it with literally anyone (which is where Mashiro took offence, as would anyone lol), but I could totally see a "it wasn't cheating, it was just a demonstration" happening here.

:huh:
 
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No matter how you look at it, Makino is absolutely right. Mashiro just displayed some pretty toxic and sickly behavior. So, meeting a lesbian alone at home behind her girlfriend's back, to show her her pussy, for whatever reason, is a red flag waving high. And if you add to that the deceitful psychological manipulation, playing the victim and making Makino look like the bad guy, you have a cocktail for a disaster. The funny thing is that Mashiro's sick and twisted behavior is nothing new. We already saw some of that when she tried to commit suicide*
 
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Again, being angry isn't the issue here for Mashiro

edit: And if i'm being honest, I would even say Makino here is a prime example of insecurity for having as first thought that her girlfriend would just cheat on her with the first stranger
Bruh the fuck are you saying... SHE IS LEGS SPEARD IN THE MIDDLE OF HER OWN FUCKING LIVING ROOM! in what world is that not some distasteful and disrespectful behavior
 
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If I wanted my hypothetical SO to avoid another lesbian, especially one she had never been sexually or romantically involved with, then that would be a sign of insecurity and immaturity on my part. If my response to that feeling is to try to find ways to stop my hypothetical SO from interacting with their friend because I don't like them, that would cross the line into relationship abuse, in my view. It's one thing if I don't want to interact with the friend or don't care for them myself, but trying to control the interactions that don't involve me is not healthy relationship behavior.

And yes, I'm not sure if commenters are men or what, but lesbians are also friends with each other in addition to dating each other. Often the friend group is primarily LGBT/lesbian, rather than being composed primarily of straight women and men. There's not special standards based on the friend or coworkers orientation, nor are lesbians relating it to typical dynamics between heterosexual men and women.

Now, circling back, I don't think my insecurity leading to me wanting my hypothetical SO to not interact with someone is relationship abuse in and of itself. However, I am obligated to engage with that feeling directly by, for example, seeking reassurance or communicating what behaviors toward me help me feel secure in the relationship (eg, in my case regularly spending time together in person where I receive that person's attention means I can be less insecure the rest of the time). If I want this to go well, I should also phrase it in a calm and nonaccusatory way where my partner is doing me a favor to help me feel better, rather than that they did something wrong. That way, when they make the change, they can feel good about doing so rather than bad.

I'm speaking more generally because I already discussed the dynamics of this story to death on dynastyscans, which anyone can feel free to go read my comments there. This comment is not myself trying to "take a side" with Mashiro or Makino within this story. Clearly they have a lot to talk about and there are compromises they can make to both get what they want, without dictating the other person's behavior.
Relationship dynamics aside if you asked some you trust while being vulnerable, dating or friend or family; not to do something. Then found that person doing exactly what you asked them not to you would feel betrayed. This isn't some complicated emotional spectacle. It is fairly cut and dry. Naruto asked saskue not to leave the village, when he did naruto felt betrayed. You ask for A and receive B you are now upset... all them fuckin words dont change that
 
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Relationship dynamics aside if you asked some you trust while being vulnerable, dating or friend or family; not to do something. Then found that person doing exactly what you asked them not to you would feel betrayed. This isn't some complicated emotional spectacle. It is fairly cut and dry. Naruto asked saskue not to leave the village, when he did naruto felt betrayed. You ask for A and receive B you are now upset... all them fuckin words dont change that
I mean I wouldn't necessarily because the feeling would be situational. Asking someone to do something doesn't mean it's automatically a betrayal if they don't agree, even if I don't like it and feel justified in not liking it. If I did feel betrayed, this doesn't mean I'm now justified in responding to that feeling however I want. I can feel all sorts of things for all sorts of reasons and that's okay, but how I choose to respond is now on me.

Sasuke was leaving to join a rival, criminal faction that was known for killing their friends/comrades. So a literal betrayal, someone defecting to an enemy army. Imagine if instead Sasuke wanted to go be a farmer and Naruto starting angrily shaming Sasuke and saying Sasuke would probably end up killing another farmer if they had a disagreement. This would not be the type of behavior that leads to a healthy friendship or coworker relationship, even though it would still be understandable for Naruto to be upset by Sasuke leaving their team and abandoning Sasuke's obligations as a ninja.

Likewise, Makino being upset is understandable. The way she acts on that feeling (while also understandable to some extent) isn't always the type of behavior that leads to a healthy relationship or that it is a good idea.
 
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I mean I wouldn't necessarily because the feeling would be situational. Asking someone to do something doesn't mean it's automatically a betrayal if they don't agree, even if I don't like it and feel justified in not liking it. If I did feel betrayed, this doesn't mean I'm now justified in responding to that feeling however I want. I can feel all sorts of things for all sorts of reasons and that's okay, but how I choose to respond is now on me.

Sasuke was leaving to join a rival, criminal faction that was known for killing their friends/comrades. So a literal betrayal, someone defecting to an enemy army. Imagine if instead Sasuke wanted to go be a farmer and Naruto starting angrily shaming Sasuke and saying Sasuke would probably end up killing another farmer if they had a disagreement. This would not be the type of behavior that leads to a healthy friendship or coworker relationship, even though it would still be understandable for Naruto to be upset by Sasuke leaving their team and abandoning Sasuke's obligations as a ninja.

Likewise, Makino being upset is understandable. The way she acts on that feeling (while also understandable to some extent) isn't always the type of behavior that leads to a healthy relationship or that it is a good idea.
The amount of hoop jumping and nonsense you have gone through to prove a mut point is pretty gnarly. Your either young enough to have not had the irl experience that would shake your very naive way of thinking or extremely sheltered regardless I dont think your open to any option or way of thinking that isn't your own. Here's a good way to tell if your point has a point " if you can't make it in less then 2 sentences it's not going to stick. Over explaining doesn't make it thoughtful, just a drawn out thought.
 
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I mean I wouldn't necessarily because the feeling would be situational. Asking someone to do something doesn't mean it's automatically a betrayal if they don't agree, even if I don't like it and feel justified in not liking it. If I did feel betrayed, this doesn't mean I'm now justified in responding to that feeling however I want. I can feel all sorts of things for all sorts of reasons and that's okay, but how I choose to respond is now on me.

Sasuke was leaving to join a rival, criminal faction that was known for killing their friends/comrades. So a literal betrayal, someone defecting to an enemy army. Imagine if instead Sasuke wanted to go be a farmer and Naruto starting angrily shaming Sasuke and saying Sasuke would probably end up killing another farmer if they had a disagreement. This would not be the type of behavior that leads to a healthy friendship or coworker relationship, even though it would still be understandable for Naruto to be upset by Sasuke leaving their team and abandoning Sasuke's obligations as a ninja.

Likewise, Makino being upset is understandable. The way she acts on that feeling (while also understandable to some extent) isn't always the type of behavior that leads to a healthy relationship or that it is a good idea.
Mashiro is still wrong regardless of what makino does after the fact. Bad Reactions dont make the initial wrong action good. Ya know 2 wrongs dont make the first wrong right...
 
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Literally yes. Your entire edit is to discredit makinos reaction to mashiros initial horrible behavior which makes it seem like your trying to justify if not vindicate it as regular non shitty actions.
No, you are just trying to put words in my mouth for your convenience
 
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The amount of hoop jumping and nonsense you have gone through to prove a mut point is pretty gnarly. Your either young enough to have not had the irl experience that would shake your very naive way of thinking or extremely sheltered regardless I dont think your open to any option or way of thinking that isn't your own. Here's a good way to tell if your point has a point " if you can't make it in less then 2 sentences it's not going to stick. Over explaining doesn't make it thoughtful, just a drawn out thought.

I'm in my 30s and my viewpoint is informed by my own past mistakes, as well as my desire for other people to not have to make them if possible. In any case, if you are not enjoying talking with me then I will stop responding to you. There's no point in having someone be stressed out about internet manga opinions.

I will say I do appreciate hearing other viewpoints and don't consider mine to be the only valid one. That doesn't mean I'll always actively adopt another person's, especially if it's 2 sentences going up against 30 years of a particular set of life experiences.
 

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