@Aloya I'm not sure what you mean by the prison burning the women. They're killing those women, either directly or indirectly, and burning the corpses. Which, yes, is still fucked up, but from the looks of things, as an Archduke who's spent most of his life overseas and hasn't interacted much with the political landscape, he probably doesn't have the power to stop that, and even if he does, he has to be careful. I agree with you in the sense that I think he can do more, but I acknowledge that I don't know how much his hands are tied. I mean, a Marquess was able to publicly mock him, an Archduke who's in line for the throne, without consequence.
It's not that he doesn't have empathy. Remember, he's the one to push for whoever drafted the contract to get Ebony's consent, he's the one who had them take out the part of the contract where he could ask her for her life, and he's the only one who believed in her innocence and was sympathetic towards her.
Moving on, it's probably that I can't remember, but what happened to Ebony's scars? It's been bothering me that we see them in the first few chapters but not after that. I'd actually liked that we got to see them on her hands, the visible reminders of what she'd gone through in prison, especially given that it's not something most manga, manhua, or manhwa/webtoons would choose to include in the first place to avoid "detracting" from the female character's beauty.
Yes, Patricia becomes an ally. She was pretty close to the teacher, and I think she didn't know what happened to her, only that she died. I don't know if Ebony told her what happened, but she did go back for the teacher's bones to give her a proper burial. Patricia visited the grave, and thanks to her, Sedell's plan got thwarted.
@mikaeldkamie @HOOfan1
The Chancellor is with the second prince faction. He cannot be seen with the Duke because he has a claim to the throne & Sedell is a neutral faction thus cannot bribe the chancellor openly which will be interpreted as him going with the second prince faction & targeted by the first prince faction. Ebony is using the Chancellor secret lover to influence of just giving it to the widow.
@Dwn there is a scene in one of the chapters where the Duke takes Ebony next to the walls of a prison to question her resolve. He explains that the guards are afraid of more prisoners like Ebony being released and that will bite them back. So they are working overnight in secret to burn them. I don't know if they are doing it Jewish camp style or killing before burning them, but it's pretty fucked up. I understand that majority of them were death row inmates meaning they were kept alive only as playthings for the guards and if you go against their will, they either beat you or kill publicly. But now they are burning them in secret because their toys may have the power to harm them. The idea that you are alive only because someone wants to play with your life sickens me to death.
Ebony says she will not loose resolve and the author completely abandons the idea of saving those prisoners. Which makes me raise questions "what is the queen doing?" "Is duke not close to the queen?" "Why no one snitches to the queen?" "Does the queen have any power in making decision in the matters of the country she beat up?" And finally "Why no one is trying to save the prisoners?"...
I understand that this novel is going for the "fuck the patriarchy" vibe and wants to glamour the main characters... hut that's not how the revolutions happened and not how woman became equal. We got our rights by uniting ourselves and protecting each other. Women that were arrested for protesting were not abandoned by other women. In fact they fought even in prisons going on hunger strikes. It got so bad they were showed food down their throats to prevent them from dying (at first I fought what so bad about that? Then I had a procedure where they showed a tiny tube down my throat and it was hell.... i couldn't imagine doing this every day, few times a day just because I want to be equal).
Now I am aware that today in some countries women can go to jail for not having a husband or doing something "against god" and it makes me feel angry. I want to help I don't know how. And it feels distant cause this is happening countries away from me. But if it were my friends or me, I would want someone who is in power to save me. Right now if we say that the Duke is incapable, the queen is perfectly capable. And these people have powers to save them. I guess I am just mad that someone who has the power is doing nothing.
Sorry for the rant and I know I am stupid to expect from the art to be the way I imagine something... but i do support Ebony and I really like her. But now every time I read this I am terrified for that is happening in that prison.
I know I have areas to grow in and might not be fully competent to understand all the information.
@Aloya I had to go back and reread to refresh my memory, but I could still be wrong, but I think the smoke from the crematorium's been going on because they're killing the prisoners whose executions have been, for one reason or another, have been delayed. They don't want there to be a chance that those prisoners, like Ebony, will be released for whatever reason (and, probably, come back to take their much, much justified vengeance), so they're presumably going ahead with the executions and burning the bodies. Which again, fucked up, I agree with you there, but then, there isn't much in this webtoon that isn't.
If it helps, she and the Archduke do visit Speth Prison, and while there's no actual dispense of justice (I think they only went to retrieve Ebony's teacher's bones to give her a proper burial), Ebony did stand up to the guards and asserted her dominance over them, so to speak. She's a Count's daughter, after all, a noblewoman in her own right, and though they didn't greet her as etiquette(?) demanded of them, she didn't cower, and they're the ones who went running off with their tails between their legs. The ladies in the prison were so happy and relieved to see her, and I'm pretty sure they were able to communicate with her? Not, you know, with words because Ebony didn't actually go inside, but there was some whistle-communication going on.
As for your questions about the queen, I had to go hunting because I honestly completely forgot about her, and I couldn't remember anything about the Archduke mentioning the queen (which, no surprise, I have a terrible memory), so I looked into that, too, because it bugged me. Found out that Ebony was only pardoned and released because the country had lost badly to another country (Babel), and their Queen demanded that they release her, and so the King of this country (Kalcass) did so. I don't know what else the Queen of Babel (who's apparently canonically a badass) demanded of Kalcass, but Ebony's release was the only thing mentioned, as far as I've found thus far. So she can't really do anything short of conquering Kalcass because, presumably, she hasn't already conquered Kalcass (possibly because they weren't part of the "subjugation war" to begin with, but butted in) and so Kalcass isn't hers to rule (we probably would've seen/heard evidence otherwise), and she's already made her demands. Babel's only just finished a war that's taken a minimum of seven years. I can't imagine that the Queen risk entering another one when her own people and country need time to heal and recuperate. Even if she does want to help the women of Kalcass, she has to make sure her own people are okay first.
The women in Speth can't be saved yet, is what I'm thinking. Part of it's because like fuck the King's going to do anything, the nobles will revolt so badly or something, and a revolting noble class is something the King would probably want to avoid if he even wanted to help the women anyway. Not to mention, society in Kalcass is geared against women anyway. I'd argue, though, that the Archduke is doing something, though. He's ensuring that Gillian gets an education so that she can run the manor herself without state interference, and he's giving a valuable military academy to Ebony with the intent of both flushing out the corruption within it as well as opening it up for women to become knights.
This isn't a simple matter of "fuck the patriarchy," in my opinion. This webtoon is about an extremely fucking sexist and misogynistic society with corruption up the wazoo that an Archduke who's spent a majority of his life abroad (I think it was majority) and experiencing different cultures and something approaching equality (which I'd say is the only reason he has the beliefs that he does instead of being like the other Kalcass noblemen) is attempting to fix with the help of a woman who was unfairly persecuted in a case that was clearly self-defense and who suffered through hell in a prison where its employees should be fucking sentenced to death themselves. No matter how much power the Archduke or even the Queen have, this isn't a problem that can be fixed quickly. At the minimum, you have to not only provide opportunities to these women who didn't even know there were any options at all to begin with (which may mean having to also provide a safety net for them because they may have to leave their current lives to pursue those opportunities), but root out the corrupt and fucked-up nobles and officials who'll fuck those women over (or at least cow them into obedience), and you have to change the laws and find a way to enforce them (which likely means that they'd have to wait for someone new to take the throne and possibly for those lady knights because I highly, highly doubt that the current knights of this country would do shit).
Change on a large-scale, which is what's needed, isn't quick, especially not when it's this deep-rooted and especially not when the people in power are benefitting from the current situation and stand to lose some, if not all, of those benefits with that change. The people in power aren't doing nothing. The Archduke is doing what he can (yes, it's also in accordance to his own plans, but if it works out for both sides, then I personally don't care either way), and the Queen, I assume, can't because, again, she has her own country and her own people to take care of, never mind the people of another country.
One way or another, I believe those women in Speth will be saved. The women of Kalcass may not be able to come together to protest (I genuinely believe that, that they can't), but change is coming, and if Gillian's any indication, once that door is open for them, once they have people in their corner who'll help them against the country dead-set on keeping them down, they'll take it.
Patricia will foil Marquess Sedell's plan. Not the Archduke, not Ebony, but Patricia, and I think it's partially for her teacher. And Marquess Sedell tries to go after Ebony to take out the Archduke, and Ebony will finally stand in court to prove her innocence. And who knows, maybe that woman who witnessed what happened (I think it was Ebony's mother-in-law) will pull through for Ebony.
the discussions this chapter is amazing @Dwn I totally agree with you. thanks for your piece (but I avoided the spoilers). I hope the Queen of Babel makes a reappearance, like a friend of Ebony's or at least make a reappearance, I'm really curious about her. This series is just amazing, it cuts the chase but still have suspense, there are series which can drag this point for 70~ish or more chapters. Even if their goal is long and convoluted, I'm in for the long haul
Did you see how naturally he put the coat on her and how naturally she accepted it? Kyaaaa~
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But anyway, I do agree with both viewpoints on the serious discussion above. The atrocities at Speth prison are very hard to take, and this despite the author's tasteful use of implication rather than explicit portrayal. I can see how it can be hard to read, as it certainly feels that more cruelties are being inflicted at these women every passing chapter, and these are not outlandish cruelties but very real situations in our world (the Taliban still have power in Afghanistan, and even in the so-called First World, the American prison system can be very brutal and unjust). However, it's also a very good story point that the Queen of Babel -- a foreign enemy nation -- can't come in and force Kalcass to abandon its misogynistic system wholesale; even the release of Ebony was probably the limit of the symbolic put-down she was able to demand without actually conquering Kalcass itself. The Archduke himself, of course, is in a delicate position, maneuvering to claim the throne after many years abroad and away from the political games, against a decadent, overweening noble class that will not give up its dominance easily. He will not risk failure for compassion.
I do think that this series merit such a discussion just by itself sets itself apart. Even the manga/manwha/webtoon with strong female leads don't generally have a such a strong element of sisterhood. The "we don't pity each other" line was so powerful: so much pain and sacrifice in that line, so many cruelly "pragmatic" decisions to have to be made, yet there was so much courage in it. These women will pay the price in blood just for their daughters and daughters' daughters to be free, and what fucking heroes they are.
I am SO HERE for these marginalized women working together. And the author treats older women, widows, felons, sex workers, etc as HUMAN. Which is amazing and I love it.
@irregularperson the queen of babel is actually the FMC of her own story! The novel is 여왕늠 안 돼요! Unfortunately it's not translated but there's a promo oneshot of it somewhere I believe. Her story was completed before ebony started.
Hmmm, I vaguely recall that she is a Queen who needs to find a suitor. SLC had done the promo webtoon of it but their site isn't operable anymore so I can't find it.
this is the novel link though: https://page.kakao.com/home?seriesId=52409193
EDIT: one of my korean translators kindly translated the title and summary.
title: My Queen, You Can't!
There has never been a Queen like this!
The most powerful monarch in the history of Babel, the one called as the God of War and the Daughter of God,
Aroa Fenrir Astropotus!
Coming back to the Imperial Palace after a 7 year-long war, what greeted her was
A pain in the ass of a trap that the noble bastards set up...
'My Queen, please choose a consort and continue the royal bloodline!'
She wants to flip everything,
but she does need to get married when she thinks of the royal family...
To make matters worse, the proposals from the men who want to become the second most influential person in Babel keep on swaming in like crazy...!
The husband candidates chosen by the Grand Chamberlain, who received a special command!
The genius professor who's the youngest in the history of Babel Academy,
The optimistic officer of the Capital Defense Forces,
Babel's Great General slash Her Majesty the Queen's strong comrade in arms,
And the most beautiful young hero in the political world of Babel.
we speculate that the 7-year long war might be the war with Kalcass
"she be enjoying a reverse harem while ebony is having a fight to the death with society"
