Loli/ shota tags sexual/not sexual

[Kaarme]

@421cookies I don't pretend to speak for Teney, but this thread is about useful categorisation, not about the meaning of words, which is what you are talking about. There would be absolutely nothing wrong about a "child" tag. It could be considered appropriate for series like Aishiteruze Baby, Usagi Drop (if you want to read the first half), and many others along those lines. As you can see, nobody has been twisted enough to insert the loli tag in the genres of those series, even though I'm sure many a lolicon has happily read/watched the series as well. If you go around the net, you will see, as a tag, loli/shota are used in certain ways. That's just how it is, no matter what you or anyone think about it. Consider it a statistical truth.

 

[Teney]

@421cookies
"As for shinchan it doesn't have the charm of what you think from your general known shota", this charm is literally what you call sexual attractiveness.

"you can always exclude ecchi smut..."-> literally found "Ijiranaide, Nagatoro-san" (which surprisingly doesnt have a loli tag), "Oshiego ni Kyouhaku Sareru no wa Hanzai desu ka?", "Fake Cinderella", "Chicchai Senpai ga Kawaisugiru", "Madonna ga Glass Case no Naka" the last one literally has a child in negligee, by including loli and excluding those four tags.
For shota it is even easier since this word is mostly used in a sexual way " Adventure Record of Reincarnated Aristocrat", "Jibaku Shounen Hanako-kun", "My Recently Hired Maid Is Suspicious", "Shinseki no Onee-chan" you dont even need to read the last one to know that its sexual.
-busted (as the mythbusters would say)

"And anyone who stay weeb long enough should naturally know what actual meaning of loli is" not all readers are weebs. I have read more comics than most of those weebs and I have even read novels long before those mainstream mangas got published and no, I do not agree with your definition, as others who share my experiences do not. Not to speak of those that are weebs but still do not agree to your opinion.

Just to clarify, the only ones who have to fear of those two terms being recognized as sexual, are those who hide their fetish for children, but try to cover it by a veil of innocence. When some mangas start being tagged as loli and shota that were ignored before because those two terms, as of now are quite confusing, will need to reflect on themselfs. For the others it has no further implication other then that they can avoid content with sexuallized children.

Thus, we are at point zero, we disagree and need a definition of this word for this site, defined by MD itself!

@ everyone else, I dont know why you are struggling against those two terms being recognized as sexual. I have only heared about the discussion about what those two terms might describe, but nobody, that is against the sexualization, has given real reasons to not apply this, since it wouldnt even affect your search patterns if we include another tag "cute child".

Edit: Just to make sure nobody missunderstands, I do read some mangas that I would rather tag with loli/shota, but there were many that I should have avoided. I do not want to offend anybody, just that you should not only write about the definition itself, but try to list pro's and con's besides arguing about the definition. And may be even contributing by giving some suggestions.

 

[421cookies]

you guys forcing loli must be a sexual tag make series like Gochiusa or Wataten or NonNon seems like a non loli series just because they aren't sexualized even though they are literally the top well known for being loli anime.

And in the end the tags are decided mostly by the scanlators, whether it's loli or not is all based on their perception. Just like one would accept legal loli as loli and some others won't, there's no way to generalize everyone opinion of the right tag on every manga there is. Hell, I'm not even sure anymore with what you define as sexual after you referenced Hanako-kun.

 

[Cyreader]

No dog in this race but because a bunch of manga has kids in it, it probably needs something done to fix the issue.

My suggestion is the tag [Wholesome-K] which refers to manga involving kids in a wholesome manner, this would also be tag friendly enough that it's not an associated link to the other terms that make people concerned they may come under the attention of some form of enforcement. Also it wouldn't exclude good manga from searches if people purposefully choose to exclude those tags.

[Wholesome-K]

 

[Teney]

@421cookies Yes, Hanako-kun was a mistake, I actually mistook it for another manga because of the front picture.
And if I may quote myself "Besides, if there are no explizit sexual scenes, but are some that are implizit, like the bahaviour of an older male counterpart behaving sexually aroused with a fitting drawing style, then it will still be counted as loli/shota".

This applies to a drawing style as well as for what audience the manga is being drawn. Those examples you have given were mostly (because I have not seen any of them and could only read through some parts/ watch some snippets of the animes) targeted at an older audience, you can identify this even by language, spoken by the characters and how the manga is written. Try reading yotsuba! and compare it to any of the mangas you have listed, the language is easier, mostly Hiragana and Katakana with some elementary school kanji that may be even explained in kanji.
Demographics:
Wataten! Rating: PG-13 - Teens 13 or older (myanimelist)
Gochiusa Rating: PG-13 - Teens 13 or older (myanimelist)/ seinen (MD)
Non Non Biyori Rating: PG-13 - Teens 13 or older (myanimelist)/ seinen (MD)

Then there are mangas like "Kumicho Musume to Sewagakari" or "Spirited Away by the Rain Woman Youkai" which are still targeted at older men and women that actually like children or want some themselves but are unable at the moment.

There are ways believe me...

 

[Pika]

imo loli/shota with nothing to adult paired, then it's cute kids doing cute things (or pesky things), if you see loli/shota paired with ecchi then it's sexualized to a sense, but if you see loli/shota tag with the H tag then it's probably nono spot touching. But if you see loli/shota tag on a hentai site then there might be some sound of the FBI testing the wood of your door.

 

[ShauniHirasawa]

https://tenor.com/6D1x.gif

Again?

 

[monkey123]

Meh who cares about loli/shota? We need futa tags asap! I can't bear to see this crap. This is bodily harm. MD staff, insert them finally or riooooooooooot!!!

 

[T3Deliciouz]

@tfwnowaifu i like how defensive pedophiles get over this.

 

[Plykiya]

Well hallo hallo.

>What is the loli/shota tag for
We don't know, we haven't actually begun working on our expectations for what we think tags should mean or apply to. This goes for all tags in general, not just loli/shota.

>Is loli/shota inherently sexual
No, they aren't.

>personally, sexual lolis and shotas should be banned.
@T3Deliciouz Even though you brought this up, I'm going to say this to everyone reading this thread. The suggestion forums are for being on-topic and productive, not coming in and insulting other users and providing nothing to the thread. Sexualized lolis and shotas are completely allowed, in fact the first several dozen uploads to the site were loli hentai scanlated by our own admin. We don't have any plans to ban it. Please don't make comments in the suggestions forums unless it's to contribute to a thread for the sake of helping us come to a decision.

And finally, I'm going to lock the thread. Nothing wrong with the discussion about what the tag should be for, but for now we aren't able to really focus on coming up with what we want tags to mean and what they apply to. After we begin officially working on our own definitions and applications for tags instead of just having copy-pasted definitions from other sites, then you're free to create a new thread discussing whether we can improve the definitions that we've come up with. The shoujo ai/yuri thread was rejected initially for this reason, because we weren't sure of how to properly handle the situation with the tools we had at the time and it was easier to just allow things to go without any supervision. Once we move onto v5 and are able to begin recruiting contributors again, tag definitions will be crucial to improving the manga discovery experience. It'll likely be then that we focus all of our attention on tag definitions and rules

Edit: Ah, and, wholesome-k is rejected as a tag addition as well for similar reasons why we wouldn't add a "cute girls doing cute things" tag, lol. Cute kids doing cute things does sound cute though.

 

[Teasday]

Since some people seem to be confused about this for whatever reason:

Nothing that Plyk said just now was a personal opinion but MangaDex's actual stance as far as our tag definitions go.