Love Bullet - Vol. 2 Ch. 12.1 - Twitter Extras + English License Announcement

[Oeconomist]

Cupids are incentivized to aim for efficiency but there are also plenty of reasons to not rush gathering Karma when being a Cupid is a comfortable existence. You're effectively immortal and the biggest downsides of taking your time are your friends/family aging without you and it taking longer to "get back" to your old life. But what's one year vs. two? Japan is a traditionalist culture and is known for being slow on the uptake to technological advancements in everyday situations (e.g. still using faxes, taking longer than most countries to swap to mostly card/epayments, their website UI's being decades behind, etc.). Combining this, it being confirmed that different weapons cost different Karma (a simple drone costs a month's worth of work so it's not a stretch to assume firearms are more expensive than bow+arrow), and what we've seen of the mentor system suggesting new Cupids will just go along with what their mentors give/teach them, there's a lot of potential friction for a whole country of Cupids to uniformly make a jump from arrows to firearms.

You've lost the thread of the argument. The issue under debate is of whether the cupidae in Japan make decisions oblivious of what cupidae elsewhere are doing. The other party argues that the choice of gear illustrates that they do. Having some cupidae choose a slow life and others act thoughtlessly conservative wouldn't explain universal use of bowed weapons by Japanese cupidae unless those two groups were jointly exhaustive. If none of them were using guns, then they weren't making the choice, so we'd have no basis to infer that they were cut-off from cupidae elsewhere.

 

[space_sancho]

You've lost the thread of the argument. The issue under debate is of whether the cupidae in Japan make decisions oblivious of what cupidae elsewhere are doing. The other party argues that the choice of gear illustrates that they do. Having some cupidae choose a slow life and others act thoughtlessly conservative wouldn't explain universal use of bowed weapons by Japanese cupidae unless those two groups were jointly exhaustive. If none of them were using guns, then they weren't making the choice, so we'd have no basis to infer that they were cut-off from cupidae elsewhere.

I don't think they're even arguing that Cupids were completely cut off from other countries, it's that a large cross-cultural exchange of ideas/weaponry wouldn't have been possible before the 19th century or so, at least in Japan. As they stated, due to the technological and physical limitations back then.

All of the modern-day Cupids we've seen have been shown to pick and choose their outfits and weaponry (minus new Cupids on their very first mission). There's no question that they make those decisions by themselves. We only have one example of a Cupid from the past, one who's notably wearing a martial arts outfit and not an outfit used in war. There's nothing that says a few select Cupids weren't trying out firearms in the same era Chiyo was still using her bow and arrow; in fact, there's more suggesting that they weren't only using bow and arrow. The original Japanese dialogue says Cupids "traditionally/conventionally" used bow and arrow before the new convention became guns.

Everything we've seen points to Cupids themselves having the choice of outfit/weaponry, and Japanese Cupids adopted firearms at large sometime in the 20th century. There's been no bureacratic Cupid entities so far, no hierarchial system beyond a simple mentor-mentee system, or no hands-on governing from the Goddess of Love.

They've always had the individual choice, Cupids were never forced to only use bow and arrow, and Japanese Cupids adopted firearms at a rate slower than the actual Japanese army due to whatever combined factors of Japanese culture, Cupid culture, and the rate of globalization and technological advancements in the 19th and 20th centuries were at play. I think arguing more than that is stretching how much information we've been given at this point.

 

[Oeconomist]

I don't think they're even arguing that Cupids were completely cut off from other countries, it's that a large cross-cultural exchange of ideas/weaponry wouldn't have been possible before the 19th century or so, at least in Japan.

The other party was arguing that cupidae in the present era did not engage in cross-border interaction.

As they stated, due to the technological and physical limitations back then.

But the constraints were not primarily physical or technologic; they were institutional.

All of the modern-day Cupids we've seen have been shown to pick and choose their outfits and weaponry (minus new Cupids on their very first mission). There's no question that they make those decisions by themselves.

As far as has been shown, they make decisions as consumers, not as producers. They cannot select what is not an option.

There's been no bureaucratic Cupid entities so far,

And no cupid smiths.

They've always had the individual choice, Cupids were never forced to only use bow and arrow, and Japanese Cupids adopted firearms at a rate slower than the actual Japanese army due to whatever combined factors of Japanese culture, Cupid culture, and the rate of globalization and technological advancements in the 19th and 20th centuries were at play.

Again, the argument is over whether the Japanese cupidae are effectively cut-off from the cupidae elsewhere. My point has always been that their choice of gear provides no support for a theory of isolation nor has other support been found. Note that we have no knowledge of when-and-if firearms were adopted by cupidae outside of Japan.

I think arguing more than that is stretching how much information we've been given at this point.

And the theory that the Japanese cupidae are operating and governed in isolation is not merely a stretch, but a very great over-stretch; it has nothing approaching peculiar evidence. If we saw them deciding what gear to produce, then the theory would be on firmer ground.

 

[IamaTire]

Death claim her once already...not a good record

 

[MelonManic]

Noice, that's noice

 

[space_sancho]

The other party was arguing that cupidae in the present era did not engage in cross-border interaction.

Yes, it's entirely possible that Cupids themselves do not engage in meaningful cross-border interaction (as they are not incentivized to), but they are affected by humans who do (previously being humans themselves and existing on the same plane as humans).

But the constraints were not primarily physical or technologic; they were institutional.

I don't see the reason in arguing why it wasn't a combination of all three.

As far as has been shown, they make decisions as consumers, not as producers. They cannot select what is not an option.

As far as what the Cupids are able to select, we don't know. Is it the Cupid's knowledge of weaponry itself? Can a baseball bat "count" as a Cupid weapon? This is another area where it's not worth extrapolating so much since we don't even know how the Cupids exchange Karma into weapons. Is it the pigeons working as intermediaries or is it another type of "listing board" like the boards of Target Files? The "poofing" of weapons in and out of existence already point to a Cupid's selection not being so limited, but it's not enough information to work off.
Again, the argument is over whether the Japanese cupidae are effectively cut-off from the cupidae elsewhere. My point has always been that their choice of gear provides no support for a theory of isolation nor has other support been found. Note that we have no knowledge of when-and-if firearms were adopted by cupidae outside of Japan.

Again, the argument is over whether the Japanese cupidae are effectively cut-off from the cupidae elsewhere. My point has always been that their choice of gear provides no support for a theory of isolation nor has other support been found. Note that we have no knowledge of when-and-if firearms were adopted by cupidae outside of Japan.

They're not any more cut off from other Cupids as humans are, the question is whether Cupids bother to engage in cross-cultural exchange when their "lifespans" are shown to be 1 year if you're working fast and there's no incentive to work outside of your nation's borders. I think you're splitting hairs over a specific part of one argument/theory that's positing the reason why Japanese Cupids weren't using firearms at large earlier than Chiyo's time (which is shown in the Ch 0 prologue to be a time where bows and arrows were the standard) despite the firearm exchange starting in the 16th century is due to Cupids being more isolationist than humans.

And the theory that the Japanese cupidae are operating and governed in isolation is not merely a stretch, but a very great over-stretch; it has nothing approaching peculiar evidence. If we saw them deciding what gear to produce, then the theory would be on firmer ground.

Well, it's more like the Cupids haven't been shown to be governed at all. That's notable in itself, all we have shown is that pigeons are sort of middle men/one-way messengers between the Goddess and Cupids and that the only passage of their rules and history has been via oral tradition so far (not the Target Data Records don't even have instructions on them). I think the conversation is worth revisiting when more information is revealed.

 

[Oeconomist]

it's entirely possible that Cupids themselves do not engage in meaningful cross-border interaction

The question isn't whether that is possible. The theory has no support.

I don't see the reason in arguing why it wasn't a combination of all three.

No one argued that claim. You had failed to mention the most important factor. And if the Japanese cupidae are cut-off from the rest of the world (as per the theory of the other poster) then we should likewise seek an institutional explanation.

As far as what the Cupids are able to select, we don't know.

And, in the absence of knowing, the theory that the Japanese cupidae are cut-off from othe cupidae is not supported by the evidence of their gear.

Again, the argument is over whether the Japanese cupidae are effectively cut-off from the cupidae elsewhere. My point has always been that their choice of gear provides no support for a theory of isolation nor has other support been found.

No, that's not been your argument, otherwise you'd not have been arguing with me.

They're not any more cut off from other Cupids as humans are,

Probably not. But while a theory of isolation presently violates Ockham's Razor, further storytelling might support it.

I think you're splitting hairs over a specific part of one argument/theory

Again, you've lost the thread of the argument. Rather than my somehow splitting hairs, I've made it very clear that the theory of isolation has absolutely no peculiar evidence.

You've adopted the position that I took and have maintained from the outset, and you're now trying to use points that I've already made in defense of that position, as if they somehow count against me. Very annoying.

it's more like the Cupids haven't been shown to be governed at all.

No. The cupidae are, at the least, governed by the rules that price their options. (The core price is that of reincarnation.)

I think the conversation is worth revisiting when more information is revealed.

Perhaps. But there may be nothing to be said.

 

[space_sancho]

I want to buy pre order but I can't as I'm UK, ahhhhhhh.

Waterstones has just put up their listing for Vol. 1 - anyone in the UK can order from them!!

Do I need a specific currency to buy the e-book?

There aren't restrictions as long as your card is one of the companies accepted by Bookwalker!

 

[Oldfatbubba]

I preordered! Thanks, scanlators.

 

[Streetlamp-Of-The-Sea]

Hopefully does not result in the series being nuked on here.

Aside from that, LETS GO, already pre-ordered.

 

[Phire453]

Waterstones has just put up their listing for Vol. 1 - anyone in the UK can order from them!!

Thank you so much for sharing, I gonna go down that now.
Thanks a lot.

 

[LTalon]

Yeah, despite the image of samurai in pop culture, the whole pike and shot "meta" of warfare was actually pioneered in the Sengoku era.

Also, I wouldn't be shocked if there are actually some "career" cupids who have no interest in reincarnating and just want to be cupids indefinitely. This could explain Chiyo being so incredibly old.

Also also, I am Ena, I make small talk at cats.

 

[Carn109]

Tactical pigeon